Okay, so I've been wanting to try my hand at writing a primer for some time. I briefly tried a Malfegor Primer months and months ago, but it failed miserably and was nothing more than a glorified decklist. So I've moved on from that. Now, several months later, I've read more and more Primers and I think I realize what I was lacking; an intimate knowledge of the deck I'm writing for. So, with that said, I'm going to do this with my favorite deck, Vhati il-Dal.
First of all, let's ask the important question: Why Vhati il-Dal of all generals? Well, I chose Vhati for his unique ability, it randomly hoses general damage based strategies(that aren't named Uril, the Miststalker), and has plenty of tools to mess around with in Golgari colours. I have a knack for playing generals that aren't always in the limelight, and Vhati, the legendary hill giant, is the perfect candidate for that.
A little backstory
I originally got the idea for this deck in a thread here at MTGS a while back that mentioned a combo with Humility, Opalescence, and Night of Souls' Betrayal(add Enchanted Evening for an auto-lock on the game). So originally the deck was going to become a WB Orshov deck, but I don't like the small selection of generals for those colours. Then I found an article on Star City Games that mentioned Vhati, saw his interactions, and noted I still got to play Night of Souls', and I fell in love. The ability to kill any creature, at will, is an amazing piece of utility. I've dabbled in other decks since this one, sure, but they don't share the same feeling I get when I play this...nor do they get the same reaction I get from people when I show up with this(which is to say, people rolling their eyes and dismissing my deck as janky rubbish). If you haven't caught it, the first combo I thought of I wanted to use for this is Vhati + NoSB which equals instant creature kill(provided it doesn't have any auras or equips on it, of course). This naturally makes Vhati quite good at controlling creatures on the board. In fact, Vhati + any creature with a -x/-1 counter on it will equal instant death.
As mentioned in the topic title, this deck is meant for 1v1, in my opinion, but I've played a few multiplayer games and my global effects(like the aforementioned NoSB) kept a lot of stuff in check, and Pestilence got in for over 20 damage on each of us. I did eventually lose, but that was purely to a top decked Sorin Markov, with everything both players had then going at me. So I guess that means it's good, if it drew that kind of hate. But I think it is still better for 1v1.
You might like playing Vhati il-Dal if:
1. You enjoy keeping others creatures in check.
2. You enjoy playing something that is under the radar.
3. You enjoy the colour interactions that the Golgari share.
4. You just want something different than the status quo.
You might not like Vhati il-Dal if:
1. You experience a lot of control or other creature-light builds in your meta.
2. You just want to kick in the door and beat some face.
3. You want to do a Voltron kill.
4. You happen to enjoy the status quo of "proven" decks.
And now, for the real meat and potatoes, the decklist.
11-25-2010: +1 Forest, -1 Golgari Rot Farm- I'm just tired of the tempo loss from this land. It will also make opening hands with it that much smoother.
11-26-2010: +1 Seedborn Muse, -1 Sakura-Tribe Elder- I can't believe I missed this guy the whole time, but this guy is exactly what Vhati appreciates. So many things Vhati wants to do, and this makes it that much easier to what I want, when I want. Not sure on cutting Tribe Elder, but I think that is the right call.
12-21-2010: Finally got around to another update! +1 Geth, Lord of the Vault, -1 Tranquil Thicket. Not sure about cutting a land, but Geth is a house. This deck kills stuff all the time, and Geth lets me use their stuff against them. This amplifies my threat density ten-fold.
+1 Imp's Mischief, -1 Diabolic Tutor- Tutor is always awkward, like it's good, but it isn't. I don't like paying 4 mana on a tutor. One could question the redirect effect, but I like it here as opposed to in a U or R deck because it just isn't expected out of these colors. Surprise factor is huge here. Just wait until you fire this thing off at an Identity Crisis, or worse(for them) Curse of the Cabal/Time Stretch. Well worth the life loss in my opinion.
+1 Big Game Hunter, -1 Sorin Markov- Sorin, contrary to popular belief, actually is quite underwhelming, at least he is when I use him. Maybe I just never needed his -3 ability. Anyway, yet another creature that kills when it EtB. This makes him fairly premium.
SB +1 Spellbane Centaur, -1 Hex- Fairly obvious, I wanted something to mess with those pesky blue mages.
1-21-11: I made this update on Friday at FNM, just now remembered to update my thread.
1-31-11: Just doing some more tweaking with the addition of Mirrodin Besieged.
-1 Myojin of Night's Reach, +1 Decimator Web- Just something I'm trying out. Win condition, and gives me an out to Pestilence Demon with a Grafted Exoskeleton(that is to say, a way to curb the poison counter parity the combo leaves me and an opponent with).
-1 Grave Titan, +1 Primeval Titan- Just a better choice. Grave is cool, but Primeval is more utility by finding my awesome suite of lands.
-1 Regrowth, +1 Restock- I can't recur it like Regrowth, but I think it's stronger. It's a draw 2 for 3GG that gives me control over what I get.
-1 Mutilate, +1 Black Sun's Zenith- Just flat out superior IMHO. Also nice as the -1/-1 counters synergize with my deck.
-1 Swamp, +1 Sol Ring- Yeah, I finally moved this from Stonebrow to Vhati. My Ring goes back and forth between whatever of my decks I take to Thursday Commander tournaments.
-1 Grim Discovery, +1 Deserted Temple- Wanted more land.
-1 Imp's Mischief, +1 Vesuva- Wanted more land.
A good portion of the cards should be self-explanatory, so I will go over the cards you don't expect to see in other builds.
Unusual Creature Selection
Coffin Queen- This girl is pretty sweet. When I made this online it ran Corpse Dance instead, but when I transferred it to RL, I couldn't find Dance so Queen stepped up. I think I like Queen more than Dance now. Fleshbag Marauder- This guy is pretty good. I used to under value him a lot and he wouldn't make my lists, but seeing more and more people talk about him has made me reconsider. Indrik Stomphowler- This guy is just good. He should be an auto-include in any green EDH. Not broken in any way, but just very solid. Kamahl, Fist of Krosa- This guy does show up in other decks too, but I just wanted to point out he combos with Night of Souls' Betrayal like Karn, Silver Golem + Mycosynth Lattice to make a Stone Rain for 1. Lord of Extinction- He's just an abnormally large beater. I consistently have him at around at least a 12/12. He's the Tarmogoyf of EDH. Evasion or not, I don't care, this guy scares people(especially when you suit him up with Grafted Exoskeleton). Carnifex Demon, Crypt Rats, Grim Poppet, Midnight Banshee, Pestilence Demon- Pestilence effects are great with Vhati, and are great at controlling the board. Also amazing at picking off utility creatures a la Trygon Predator, Mother of Runes, Fauna Shaman, etc(those are the ones I last played against in my friend's Rafiq deck, so they spring to mind first). Nekrataal- Some might question why this guy instead of the largely more popular Shriekmaw, and there is a reason for that. Neither of their bodies are much relevant between a 2/1 or a 3/2, but Nekrataal has first strike, which acts quite favorably with my Commander. It may be small and rarely actually come up, but nevertheless it's enough for me to justify running him over everybody's favorite evokable Terror.
Unusual Non-Creature Selection
Contagion Engine- This thing is insane. It puts -1/-1 counters so Vhati can kill more stuff, and it keeps Carnifex Demon and Grim Poppet charged up. I used to play the Clasp as well, but it was cut for just not being quite fast enough. Night of Souls' Betrayal- This is the combo piece. It's really such a good control card. Keeps tokens in check. Thrashes utility creatures. and makes other dudes significantly smaller. Pestilence- Just like the aforementioned creatures above, this thing is so good with Vhati.
Major Update: August 7, 2011
Complete re-edit of the deck done to include New Phyrexia all the way up through M12. This update has been way overdue and I'm glad I finally stopped being lazy and actually updated this. Due to the meta of the LGS I usually play at, I might start playing this again. Usually it has hard match-ups against hard control, but currently the only control deck that shows up is Azami, wizard tribal. Boy what I wouldn't give to resolve Night of Souls' Betrayal against that LOL.
Explain anything non-obvious about playing with your deck.
Hmm. What else can I say here? I know, let's talk about combos and synergies a little more.
Grafted Exoskeleton + Pestilence Demon/Crypt Rats- A very scary interaction. I wanted a wither equipment but Blight Sickle is so bad. Then this came along from Scars. People will freak out. Just make sure they have at least one more poison than you.
And that's pretty much it. Any ideas you guys have, or questions you have for me about how it plays out, or anything else just post, I'll be happy to answer them! Even comments about my Primer itself, ways I can improve it or the like!
If you haven't caught it, the first combo I thought of I wanted to use for this is Vhati + NoSB which equals instant creature kill(provided it doesn't have any auras or equips on it, of course).
Or any +1/+1 counter...This is the main reason I'm hesitating to use Vhati. There are a lot of +1/+1 counters these days, and while Vhati can still help to mess up combat, he can't kill anything with even a single +1/+1 counter on it...I was even thinking about Aether Snap What are you experiences with this if you have them?
Ooh...Æther Snap is good...but seems niche too. Because I'm dealing in -1/-1 counters, Snap hurts me just as much, if not more, IMO. I'm hesitant to try it, but I'd be interested to hear how it works for you!
You've been doing this for a long time Magnus, so I trust your judgment.
I'm still thinking how I'm going to put the list together, but the more I think about it the more I like the -1/-1 counter theme. If they don't deal with toughness boosting enchantments or +1/+1 counters, they're dead. If they deal with the enchantments, a few more -1/-1 counters can compensate for that (not to mention that green is very capable of removing enchantments) and +1/+1 counters can easily be removed by putting those same -1/-1 counters on them.
I still think Aether Snap has a very good possibility to shine in this deck, even though you might nog always want to cast it. But combined with a Vampire Hexmage, no counter can feel save
Still brooding on a decklist, but I will let you know once I cooked one up and I'll be following this thread carefully
Alright, I look forward to it. I've wanted to get a Vampire Hexmage in here(it was before), but it just seems like I keep finding more cards that fit for the deck than the Hexmage does itself. But I'm always trying to get him in there >_______>.
Hah! Yeah, great job Magnus! Nice call on the old Spike Cannibal, completely forgot about him! You got a few different card choices in there than I do, so I definitely look forward to hearing what you can do with it.
I had a big problem with shroud. I got a 2/2 with a Celestial Mantle and Whispersilk Cloak against me and my opponent was at 400+ life before I finally drew my Krosan Grip...But the -1/-1 counters are great! Trigon of Corruption and Serrated Arrows are SO good, and when you get the option to proliferate, it's awesome I handed out 10 -1/-1 counters with the Arrows one game
I also think Sudden Spoiling is a must play. It helps against shroud and protection and saved my ass one time.
Ahh, it sounds like you were in major need of a Damnation, haha. Celestial Mantle gone wrong. Maybe it's my group, but I don't usually have to worry about shroud unless it's coming from a Lightning Greaves.
i love this idea for the deck. i have been designing one as well. i have found myriad ways to abuse shirei, shizo's caretaker. it can bring essentially anything back when vhati is in play and w/all the EtB effects it has been pretty fun to test so far. another one, w/all the infect and counters, is necroskitter.
There is no Ascendant Evincar in this list. He's like 95% of the reason to use Vhati as your general. Go-go gadget Avatar of Woe general.
First of all, thanks to the two guys who posted in this thread, I appreciate the interest you've shown in this.
Solid, solid. Point taken. Night of Souls' Betrayal v2(though somewhat restricted in use as it doesn't hit B creatures). Still though, could very well be worth it nonetheless.
Another one, w/all the infect and counters, is Necroskitter.
I only play just one source of Infect [Grafted Exoskeleton] as it combos with Pestilence Demon and Crypt Rats, but I would love to find one of these guys! I'm not sure if I like it more than Coffin Queen, though the extra toughness sure does help. I've been looking for one for a while though like I said.
Just a minor update. Replaced Crypt Rats with Thrashing Wumpus as Wumpus is just better at what it does than Rats. TBH, I forgot about thrashing wumpus entirely until a couple weeks ago when I found this one at my LGS.
Just a bump from page 2. Though honestly I haven't played this in awhile as I'm messing around more with my Drana MBC Voltron a bit more. But I should get my Vhati back together on MTGO(I recently got a new laptop, so I have to rebuild) and get some more playing with it.
hunter of eyeblights
just some more heavy creature destruction, since i generally play 4 player matches, my decks need to be able to handle a lot of creatures quickly
ill post my decklist later on, but its nowhere near your guys decks...
hunter of eyeblights
just some more heavy creature destruction, since i generally play 4 player matches, my decks need to be able to handle a lot of creatures quickly
ill post my decklist later on, but its nowhere near your guys decks...
Oooh, I like the Thornbite Staff! More use out of old Vhati! Thanks And do post your list. We might have some improvements for you and all the same we can learn what you play and use it as well (as I just did :)). Doesn't matter it's a 'cheaper' list or something like that.
Thornbite Staff: I love its applications so much but I hate it's 4 equip cost. It's so annoying but it's so good at the same time. I have it cut currently in my list but I'm always up for the swap if I deem it needed.
Hell, I've gone back and forth on Shriekmaw's spot with Faceless Butcher, Bone Shredder, and even Soul Snuffers(for the mass counter distribution to give Vhati tons of combo fodder). Just goes to show it's all in the build and what you want to do with it.
Wow, my bad man, I totally never even saw this thread get bumped up here, must be a fast moving forum.
Hmm...instead of Battle-Axe, I think Greaves #2 should be better suited as a Thousand-Year Elixir. It gives the relevant haste effect, and lets you untap him to do it all over again(since you probably won't be swinging with Vhati any time soon...)
I don't know about Melira, tbh. She seems hot and cold, like a better sideboard card. Unless you run tons of mass -1/-1 counter distribution. It's worth a shot though. tell me how it works for you?
Hmm...I suppose if you want to lean on him a little heavier, it works. I think he works fine with Thousand-Year Elixir myself--that gives you two kills a turn and dodges summoning sickness--which should be more than enough. Plus, it means you don't have to spend deck slots on a couple of random 1/1 dorks.
I used to run the Plaguelord as my sac outlet of choice, but I wanted something that I could use regardless of other creatures on the board. I think Greater Good is better, but that doesn't mean Phyrexian Plaguelord doesn't have it's place.
(I really need to check this thread more often.) >_>
First of all, let's ask the important question:
Why Vhati il-Dal of all generals? Well, I chose Vhati for his unique ability, it randomly hoses general damage based strategies(that aren't named Uril, the Miststalker), and has plenty of tools to mess around with in Golgari colours. I have a knack for playing generals that aren't always in the limelight, and Vhati, the legendary hill giant, is the perfect candidate for that.
A little backstory
I originally got the idea for this deck in a thread here at MTGS a while back that mentioned a combo with Humility, Opalescence, and Night of Souls' Betrayal(add Enchanted Evening for an auto-lock on the game). So originally the deck was going to become a WB Orshov deck, but I don't like the small selection of generals for those colours. Then I found an article on Star City Games that mentioned Vhati, saw his interactions, and noted I still got to play Night of Souls', and I fell in love. The ability to kill any creature, at will, is an amazing piece of utility. I've dabbled in other decks since this one, sure, but they don't share the same feeling I get when I play this...nor do they get the same reaction I get from people when I show up with this(which is to say, people rolling their eyes and dismissing my deck as janky rubbish). If you haven't caught it, the first combo I thought of I wanted to use for this is Vhati + NoSB which equals instant creature kill(provided it doesn't have any auras or equips on it, of course). This naturally makes Vhati quite good at controlling creatures on the board. In fact, Vhati + any creature with a -x/-1 counter on it will equal instant death.
As mentioned in the topic title, this deck is meant for 1v1, in my opinion, but I've played a few multiplayer games and my global effects(like the aforementioned NoSB) kept a lot of stuff in check, and Pestilence got in for over 20 damage on each of us. I did eventually lose, but that was purely to a top decked Sorin Markov, with everything both players had then going at me. So I guess that means it's good, if it drew that kind of hate. But I think it is still better for 1v1.
You might like playing Vhati il-Dal if:
1. You enjoy keeping others creatures in check.
2. You enjoy playing something that is under the radar.
3. You enjoy the colour interactions that the Golgari share.
4. You just want something different than the status quo.
You might not like Vhati il-Dal if:
1. You experience a lot of control or other creature-light builds in your meta.
2. You just want to kick in the door and beat some face.
3. You want to do a Voltron kill.
4. You happen to enjoy the status quo of "proven" decks.
And now, for the real meat and potatoes, the decklist.
1 Vhati il-Dal
Lands(39)
1 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Deserted Temple
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Marsh Flats
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mystifying Maze
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Pine Barrens
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Strip Mine
1 Tainted Wood
1 Temple of the False God
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Treetop Village
1 Twilight Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Vesuva
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Wasteland
7 Forest
7 swamp
Combo Pieces(20)
1 Ascendant Evincar
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Carnifex Demon
1 Contagion Engine
1 Darkblast
1 Grafted Exoskeleton
1 Grim Poppet
1 Greater Good
1 Horobi, Death's Wail
1 Kamahl, Fist of Krosa
1 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
1 Midnight Banshee
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Pestilence
1 Pestilence Demon
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Thrashing Wumpus
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Beast Within
1 Cultivate
1 Helm of Possession
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Krosan Grip
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Sol Ring
Creatures(15)
1 Acidic Slime
1 Coffin Queen
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Geth, Lord of the Vault
1 Primeval Titan
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Lord of Extinction
1 Nekrataal
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Terastodon
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Withered Wretch
Card Advantage(6)
1 Abundance
1 Harmonize
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Promise of Power
1 Life from the Loam
1 Sylvan Library
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Intent
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
Sweepers(3)
1 Damnation
1 Decree of Pain
1 Life's Finale
1 vhati il-dal
Creatures(28)
1 acidic slime
1 avatar of woe
1 bane of the living
1 carnifex demon
1 coffin queen
1 eternal witness
1 fleshbag marauder
1 geth, lord of the vault
1 grim poppet
1 guardian beast
1 horobi, death's wail
1 indrik stomphowler
1 kamahl, fist of krosa
1 krosan tusker
1 lord of extinction
1 melira, sylvok outcast
1 midnight banshee
1 nekrataal
1 primeval titan
1 puppeteer clique
1 seedborn muse
1 sheoldred, whispering one
1 solemn simulacrum
1 terastodon
1 vorinclex, voice of hunger
1 withered wretch
1 woodfall primus
1 yavimaya elder
1 abundance
1 beacon of unrest
1 beast within
1 black sun's zenith
1 contagion engine
1 cultivate
1 damnation
1 darkblast
1 decree of pain
1 demonic tutor
1 grafted exoskeleton
1 greater good
1 grim tutor
1 harmonize
1 helm of possession
1 imperial seal
1 kodama's reach
1 krosan grip
1 life from the loam
1 lightning greaves
1 night of souls' betrayal
1 pestilence
1 phyrexian arena
1 praetor's counsel
1 promise of power
1 putrefy
1 sol ring
1 survival of the fittest
1 sword of light and shadow
1 thousand-year elixir
1 umezawa's jitte
1 barren moor
1 bayou
1 bojuka bog
1 cabal coffers
1 forbidden orchard
7 forest
1 llanowar wastes
1 maze of ith
1 mystifying maze
1 overgrown tomb
1 phyrexian tower
1 reliquary tower
1 rupture spire
7 snow-covered swamp
1 strip mine
3 swamp
1 tainted wood
1 tectonic edge
1 temple of the false god
1 thawing glaciers
1 tranquil thicket
1 treetop village
1 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
1 verdant catacombs
1 volrath's stronghold
Change Log
11-26-2010: +1 Seedborn Muse, -1 Sakura-Tribe Elder- I can't believe I missed this guy the whole time, but this guy is exactly what Vhati appreciates. So many things Vhati wants to do, and this makes it that much easier to what I want, when I want. Not sure on cutting Tribe Elder, but I think that is the right call.
12-21-2010: Finally got around to another update! +1 Geth, Lord of the Vault, -1 Tranquil Thicket. Not sure about cutting a land, but Geth is a house. This deck kills stuff all the time, and Geth lets me use their stuff against them. This amplifies my threat density ten-fold.
+1 Imp's Mischief, -1 Diabolic Tutor- Tutor is always awkward, like it's good, but it isn't. I don't like paying 4 mana on a tutor. One could question the redirect effect, but I like it here as opposed to in a U or R deck because it just isn't expected out of these colors. Surprise factor is huge here. Just wait until you fire this thing off at an Identity Crisis, or worse(for them) Curse of the Cabal/Time Stretch. Well worth the life loss in my opinion.
+1 Big Game Hunter, -1 Sorin Markov- Sorin, contrary to popular belief, actually is quite underwhelming, at least he is when I use him. Maybe I just never needed his -3 ability. Anyway, yet another creature that kills when it EtB. This makes him fairly premium.
SB +1 Spellbane Centaur, -1 Hex- Fairly obvious, I wanted something to mess with those pesky blue mages.
1-21-11: I made this update on Friday at FNM, just now remembered to update my thread.
-1 Slaughter Pact, -1 Snuff Out, +1 Rend Flesh, +1 Darkblast- I like free costed instant removal, but the versatility of Rend Flesh and Darkblast is much more useful. Darkblast is also a dredge-able Terminate in this deck, which isn't to be taken lightly IMO.
1-31-11: Just doing some more tweaking with the addition of Mirrodin Besieged.
-1 Myojin of Night's Reach, +1 Decimator Web- Just something I'm trying out. Win condition, and gives me an out to Pestilence Demon with a Grafted Exoskeleton(that is to say, a way to curb the poison counter parity the combo leaves me and an opponent with).
-1 Grave Titan, +1 Primeval Titan- Just a better choice. Grave is cool, but Primeval is more utility by finding my awesome suite of lands.
-1 Regrowth, +1 Restock- I can't recur it like Regrowth, but I think it's stronger. It's a draw 2 for 3GG that gives me control over what I get.
-1 Mutilate, +1 Black Sun's Zenith- Just flat out superior IMHO. Also nice as the -1/-1 counters synergize with my deck.
-1 Swamp, +1 Sol Ring- Yeah, I finally moved this from Stonebrow to Vhati. My Ring goes back and forth between whatever of my decks I take to Thursday Commander tournaments.
-1 Grim Discovery, +1 Deserted Temple- Wanted more land.
-1 Imp's Mischief, +1 Vesuva- Wanted more land.
2-11-11: One small update
-1 Crypt Rats, +1 Thrashing Wumpus- Wumpus is just the better of the two.
A good portion of the cards should be self-explanatory, so I will go over the cards you don't expect to see in other builds.
Unusual Creature Selection
Fleshbag Marauder- This guy is pretty good. I used to under value him a lot and he wouldn't make my lists, but seeing more and more people talk about him has made me reconsider.
Indrik Stomphowler- This guy is just good. He should be an auto-include in any green EDH. Not broken in any way, but just very solid.
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa- This guy does show up in other decks too, but I just wanted to point out he combos with Night of Souls' Betrayal like Karn, Silver Golem + Mycosynth Lattice to make a Stone Rain for 1.
Lord of Extinction- He's just an abnormally large beater. I consistently have him at around at least a 12/12. He's the Tarmogoyf of EDH.
Carnifex Demon, Crypt Rats, Grim Poppet, Midnight Banshee, Pestilence Demon- Pestilence effects are great with Vhati, and are great at controlling the board. Also amazing at picking off utility creatures a la Trygon Predator, Mother of Runes, Fauna Shaman, etc(those are the ones I last played against in my friend's Rafiq deck, so they spring to mind first).
Nekrataal- Some might question why this guy instead of the largely more popular Shriekmaw, and there is a reason for that. Neither of their bodies are much relevant between a 2/1 or a 3/2, but Nekrataal has first strike, which acts quite favorably with my Commander. It may be small and rarely actually come up, but nevertheless it's enough for me to justify running him over everybody's favorite evokable Terror.
Unusual Non-Creature Selection
Contagion Engine- This thing is insane. It puts -1/-1 counters so Vhati can kill more stuff, and it keeps Carnifex Demon and Grim Poppet charged up. I used to play the Clasp as well, but it was cut for just not being quite fast enough.
Night of Souls' Betrayal- This is the combo piece. It's really such a good control card. Keeps tokens in check. Thrashes utility creatures. and makes other dudes significantly smaller.
Pestilence- Just like the aforementioned creatures above, this thing is so good with Vhati.
Major Update: August 7, 2011
Complete re-edit of the deck done to include New Phyrexia all the way up through M12. This update has been way overdue and I'm glad I finally stopped being lazy and actually updated this. Due to the meta of the LGS I usually play at, I might start playing this again. Usually it has hard match-ups against hard control, but currently the only control deck that shows up is Azami, wizard tribal. Boy what I wouldn't give to resolve Night of Souls' Betrayal against that LOL.
Explain anything non-obvious about playing with your deck.
Hmm. What else can I say here? I know, let's talk about combos and synergies a little more.
Fauna Shaman + Coffin Queen- Dump something, find something for the situation, then reanimate what you dumped. Tired of drawing late game mana dorks like Sakura-Tribe Elder or Yavimaya Elder? Pitch 'em and find your 30/30 Lord of Extinction!
Kamahl, Fist of Krosa + Night of Souls' Betrayal- Nuke lands as soon as they EtB. Beware as this will obviously make you a target.
Vhati il-Dal + Night of Souls' Betrayal(or anything else that gives -1 toughness)- Auto-kill. Regardless of indestructible status.
Grafted Exoskeleton + Pestilence Demon/Crypt Rats- A very scary interaction. I wanted a wither equipment but Blight Sickle is so bad. Then this came along from Scars. People will freak out. Just make sure they have at least one more poison than you.
And that's pretty much it. Any ideas you guys have, or questions you have for me about how it plays out, or anything else just post, I'll be happy to answer them! Even comments about my Primer itself, ways I can improve it or the like!
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I like a lot of your choice, although I'll give it my own twist. If I come upon something nice, I'll let it know.
Or any +1/+1 counter...This is the main reason I'm hesitating to use Vhati. There are a lot of +1/+1 counters these days, and while Vhati can still help to mess up combat, he can't kill anything with even a single +1/+1 counter on it...I was even thinking about Aether Snap
Casual Commander player.
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You've been doing this for a long time Magnus, so I trust your judgment.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I still think Aether Snap has a very good possibility to shine in this deck, even though you might nog always want to cast it. But combined with a Vampire Hexmage, no counter can feel save
Still brooding on a decklist, but I will let you know once I cooked one up and I'll be following this thread carefully
Casual Commander player.
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Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Also Magnus, how is your Vhati il-Dal list coming along?
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
This is my attempt:
BG Commander Vhati il-Dal http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=6172123 at your service!
Casual Commander player.
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Hah! Yeah, great job Magnus! Nice call on the old Spike Cannibal, completely forgot about him! You got a few different card choices in there than I do, so I definitely look forward to hearing what you can do with it.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
I also think Sudden Spoiling is a must play. It helps against shroud and protection and saved my ass one time.
Casual Commander player.
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Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
BSkithiryx, the Blight DragonB
GAzusa, Lost but SeekingG
First of all, thanks to the two guys who posted in this thread, I appreciate the interest you've shown in this.
Solid, solid. Point taken. Night of Souls' Betrayal v2(though somewhat restricted in use as it doesn't hit B creatures). Still though, could very well be worth it nonetheless.
Another one, w/all the infect and counters, is Necroskitter.
I only play just one source of Infect [Grafted Exoskeleton] as it combos with Pestilence Demon and Crypt Rats, but I would love to find one of these guys! I'm not sure if I like it more than Coffin Queen, though the extra toughness sure does help. I've been looking for one for a while though like I said.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
but anyways i have the same general for my commander deck and here are a couple ideas i use for my deck i didnt see here:
thornbite staff + Night of Souls' Betrayal
this is great because its practically a controlled board wipe =)
hunter of eyeblights
just some more heavy creature destruction, since i generally play 4 player matches, my decks need to be able to handle a lot of creatures quickly
ill post my decklist later on, but its nowhere near your guys decks...
Oooh, I like the Thornbite Staff! More use out of old Vhati!
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heres my decklist =)
Thornbite Staff: I love its applications so much but I hate it's 4 equip cost. It's so annoying but it's so good at the same time. I have it cut currently in my list but I'm always up for the swap if I deem it needed.
Hell, I've gone back and forth on Shriekmaw's spot with Faceless Butcher, Bone Shredder, and even Soul Snuffers(for the mass counter distribution to give Vhati tons of combo fodder). Just goes to show it's all in the build and what you want to do with it.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Hmm...instead of Battle-Axe, I think Greaves #2 should be better suited as a Thousand-Year Elixir. It gives the relevant haste effect, and lets you untap him to do it all over again(since you probably won't be swinging with Vhati any time soon...)
I don't know about Melira, tbh. She seems hot and cold, like a better sideboard card. Unless you run tons of mass -1/-1 counter distribution. It's worth a shot though. tell me how it works for you?
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.
(I really need to check this thread more often.) >_>
Steel Sabotage'ng Orbs of Mellowness since 2011.