I was looking for an underexplored general. I read a post on here by Virtus about a Glissa dredge deck. Glissa was black and green, my two favorite colors really, and she has great attributes that make for a potentially competitive 1v1 EDH general. These attributes are 1) an aggressive casting cost (cmc = 3, think of Edric, Clique, Doran) 2) a method of creating card advantage (returns artifacts when enemy creatures die) and perhaps most importantly 3) two abilities that greatly affect combat: first strike and deathtouch. Regardless of the interactions with artifacts, Glissa would just not work without first strike and deathtouch. Being able to rely on a turn 3 "you can't attack me on the ground now" play every game is something that you will come to take for granted if you play Glissa. Also note that first strike is surprisingly rare for creatures played in French 1v1, and we’ve got it on our commander! This list has evolved quite a bit over a few months. I tried so many versions and many artifacts that "worK" with Glissa and finally arrived at the list in this primer which I am comfortable playing against other popular 1v1 decks.
Why play this version of Glissa?
Play this list if you like black and green but want to play something different from other more common decks.
Play this list if you want a general that interacts with some cool artifacts but is not entirely built around them.
Play this list if you want to try some underplayed and unique yet powerful cards.
Why shouldn’t I play this version of Glissa?
Don’t play this list if you want an aggro-focused strategy. This deck is fairly creature light (26 creatures) and some of those are combo pieces.
Don’t play this list if you like counterspells. In fact if you do, get the **** out of here! Just kidding. But seriously, blue control can die in a fire. Moving on…
Don’t play this deck if you don’t like having a bad matchup or two (Animar!!! :()
Decklist by card type and arranged by increasing cmc:
This section considers the major card groups that make Glissa tick along with my own commentary:
Glissa package (artifacts that strongly interact with Glissa):
First up, let me talk about the mechanics of artifact recursion with Glissa. Glissa, the Traitor says that you may return an artifact card from your graveyard to your hand whenever a creature an opponent controls dies. This ability works well with, for example, Executioner’s Capsule because in order to activate the capsule, you must sacrifice it. The ability goes on the stack, the creature will die, and lucky for us the capsule is already in the graveyard when this happens. Glissa’s ability triggers, Capsule is returned to our hand. Easy peasy. Now, say we have an artifact already in our graveyard and our opponent is attacking with some creature with first strike and 3 or greater power and we block with just Glissa. The creatures trade in combat and die at the same time – this ALSO triggers Glissa’s ability, so we would be able to return that artifact from our graveyard to our hand if we wish. Same goes if we cast Damnation or some other mass kill spell, killing Glissa and our opponent’s creatures at the same time. Keep in mind for a creature to “die” it must go to the graveyard. If your opponent’s commander dies and they choose to place it in the command zone, this is a replacement effect and will NOT trigger Glissa’s ability. (Just like you can’t Skullclamp your general and draw 2 while placing it in the command zone – it’s one or the other)
OK so with that covered, you can imagine there are a ton of artifacts you might want to include with Glissa. Because this decklist is designed for competitive 1v1 play, the “Glissa artifact” package is concise and focused (we only play the best):
Executioner's Capsule (best removal card in the deck) Triangle of War (capsule 2.0, use with Glissa or any other creature really, but use cautiously if you suspect they can bounce or kill your creature) Nihil Spellbomb (recurring graveyard removal for 1 mana and can even cantrip. so good.) Perilous Myr (deceptively powerful little guy and provides colorless damage) Sylvok Replica (a bit mana-intensive but can be handy in a pinch)
Now obviously there are other artifacts in the deck but these ones are *designed* to be brought back with Glissa and used repeatedly when necessary. But again, it’s never bad to return something like Umezawa’s Jitte to your hand :).
Arena cards (card advantage is king, the first 4 need no explanation):
Planeswalkers (awesome with Glissa who plays defense so well):
Garruk Relentless (Mainly a green removal spell, but great if it survives, can also make bears against control) Garruk Wildspeaker (Versatile, cost efficient, should probably be in every green EDH deck) Liliana of the Veil (just awesome) Karn Liberated (costly but worth it, so versatile)
Board wipe (reset buttons):
Other “goodstuff” cards that you see in many other black or green decks, including cheap spot removal, tutors, discard, draw spells, etc. Most of these cards need no explanation.
Lands (The deck is color hungry so not many “colorless only” lands. All the duals and filters and the usual staples. I will only discuss the unique picks here):
Khalni Garden (I like this card – the 0/1 is free skullclamp food, a chump blocker, well worth coming into play tapped) Shizo, Death's Storehouse (not too unique I guess, useful to squeeze that last few damage in or to make sure a Sword-equipped creature connects)
General comments:
I guess the decklist can be described as black and green Rock goodstuff with Glissa artifact cards and a few lesser-played cards that work well in this specific deck. While there are elements of aggro, the creature count is medium to light, and many of the creatures are not necessarily made for combat but rather build advantage by making tokens, killing permanents, and drawing cards. Games with Glissa can play out in different ways but the general blueprint for success is to stick an Arena card on the board and bury your opponent in card advantage. While usually controlling and a bit grinding, the deck can sometimes just go blitz aggro. The permanents chosen will hopefully end the game if they stick. Careful on the life loss – the deck likes to draw cards at the expense of life and there are only a few ways to gain life – Wurmcoil Engine and Vampire Nighthawk have lifelink, Scavenging Ooze can gain 1 life per creature card exile, and Umezawa’s Jitte can also buffer your life total. Oh and you can always Nature’s Claim your own arena cards – I have done this before: gain 4 life and stop the life loss, useful in a pinch when you are ahead in card advantage and the game has degenerated into your opponent trying to eek out direct damage)
Exclusions (the “hey, why aren’t you playing [card]?” list):
Viridian Longbow: I personally love this card and there is no doubt it is awesome with Glissa. It has been in and out of my list several times but I reached the conclusion that it should stay out. My issues are a) it takes a big investment when all you are doing is killing a dude and b) only works well with Glissa and a couple other deathtouch guys. Plus, the matchups where it helps you, you should already be winning (i.e. aggro decks). Often you will wish the slot was just another removal spell. Oh and don’t even bring up the related Thornbite Staff, that card sucks.
Ratchet Bomb and Engineered Explosives: Just too narrow I think. They can't always kill the creature you want to kill, and can't always kill the artifact or enchantment you want to kill. I have just been disappointed when using them.
Expedition Map: Not enough good land targets, not powerful enough to recur with Glissa. Plus this card is too slow for the French meta. Sylvan Scrying would do the same for one less mana and we wouldn’t play that :).
Mindslaver: Too slow. Only good late game against control. Better to use 10 mana to play multiple threats.
More coming eventually…
Matchups:
*General Note*
There are a few cards that really hurt us and need to be dealt with immediately, here they are:
I won't give win % estimations, I think those are silly especially because games in 1v1 French EDH depend a LOT on the player and the decisions you make. There are good matchups and bad matchups. Just try it for yourself :).
Edric:
Just focus on Edric. Don’t let them get ahead in card advantage. Save spot removal for wise moments. Against the good stuff version, try to get Executioner’s capsule/Glissa recursion going. Against the all-in version with tons of cheap creatures, try to resolve a board wipe - Damnation or Pernicious Deed (since Capsule is technically “slow” if they are dropping 2-3 dudes per turn, better to wipe the board). Your card quality will kick in eventually – if you don’t die early you stand a good chance of winning.
Animar:
This one is difficult (understatement) because of Animar’s pro black and also that he usually doesn’t need to attack to hurt you – they just sit back and combo off. Use your spot removal on the combo enablers – stuff like Imperial Recruiter, Phyrexian Metamorph, etc…Green and colorless damage sources go to Animar obviously. Cards that can kill Animar are Garruk Relentless, Beast Within, Karn Liberated, Damnation, Pernicious Deed, and to a lesser extent stuff like Master of the Wild Hunt, or Triangle of War + a green or artifact creature, or Skullclamp + Perilous Myr. As you can see, many of the ways to kill Animar are slow – if you know it’s combo animar, just mulligan really aggressive. Try to get a tutor (to get the answer), an arena (to draw into it), or the answer itself.
More coming eventually…
Adjustments I am considering:
Adding Sylvan Safekeeper. Big game against tempo control like Clique, but the deck definitely likes to have a lot of mana… I’m a bit torn on him, probably need to test it and find out.
More creatures, less removal. I wish I could run more creatures but I feel like in order to run creatures I would lose more powerful cards. There just aren’t enough aggressively costed, high value creatures in Black/Green. Maybe you guys can help out and convince me otherwise?
Cards I wish existed:
More in-color, color-producing man lands. Seriously, treetop village is my #1 card against control. They can’t Counter it, Repeal it, Shackles it, Wrath it, etc. Need moar man lands plx. And no, spawning pool is NOT playable.
Finally, big thanks to Khymera for helping focus the deck and making it more competitive. And all the Cockatrice crew for the testing.
Changelog:
3/2/2012
+ Sylvok Replica (error in list, was missing the card)
4/24/2012
- Necrotic Ooze, Triskelion, Phyrexian Devourer, Vampire Hexmage, Dark Depths, Crop Rotation, Survival of the Fittest
+ Ulvenwald Tracker, Phyrexian Obliterator, Swamp, Chainer's Edict, Garruk Wildspeaker, Gravecrawler, Phyrexian Revoker
But Karn is an absolute bomb, he acts as a late game impact card and finisher. Lignify, I can see it's uses, maybe temporary way to deal with Animar, etc, but it definitely would not replace Karn.
But Karn is an absolute bomb, he acts as a late game impact card and finisher. Lignify, I can see it's uses, maybe temporary way to deal with Animar, etc, but it definitely would not replace Karn.
Times Karn is good:
1. You're already winning
2. Topdeck mode versus a tapped out, handless blue player
3. Attrition War versus a creatureless, removalless deck.
Times Karn is bad:
1. Your opener
2. Whenever the blue player has cards in hand
3. Against any creature based deck ever
4. Red decks
5. You're losing
6. ect
Karn is simply not that good. At seven mana, he doesn't impact the board enough, unless you're in a position to be winning anyways, where any other spell will do. If you see him in your opener the hand instantly gets worse to the point of unplayability. He's terrible against most decks and usually won't resolve or will come down too late to matter. 7 mana is far too much in this format.
He also pretty much kills you off of a bob or tutelage trigger.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I'm glad you posted this. I haven't had time to play in quite a while, but Glissa is still my favorite deck (and has been for a while). It's deceptively powerful and can put up a strong fight against anything (Zur and Animar are the only weak matches I've found).
For the record, my list differs from Kwiznek by the following 12 cards.
-Vampire Hexmage
-Dark Depths
-Crop Rotation
-Necrotic Ooze
-Triskelion
-Phyrexian Devourer
-Survival of the Fittest
I tested the Hexmage/Depths combo extensively a few months ago and was never happy with it. While I was testing, I felt like I actually got extremely lucky in terms of drawing the combo frequently and not getting stuck with useless parts...but the combo just wasn't winning me any games. I even had the absolutely perfect start of Duress into turn 2 Marit Lage, and my opponent just topdecked Into the Roil and destroyed me. Obviously, this is all anecdotal, but I was seriously unimpressed with the combo every time. And Hexmage was never useful by itself. It sounds like you just added this combo to try to get a little more reach, but I'm pretty certain it doesn't belong in this deck.
I'm not a huge fan of the Ooze combo either, though it's better than the first one. It just has too many moving parts for my taste in a deck that doesn't prioritize tutors. This sounds like blasphemy, but I've never felt that Survival of the Fittest was optimal in this deck: it simply doesn't fit what we try to do. Outside of this combo you just jammed in, there aren't any creatures we want in the graveyard, and there aren't that many creatures in the deck at all. When I tested it in this deck, Survival most just read "GG1, Discard a creature: tutor a creature." That's a crappy card. There aren't any creatures you want to naturally chain together through Survival, so you wind up not using it or just trying to topdeck. I played so many games where Survival would just sit in my hand all game because I never had reason or opportunity to cast it: there was always a better play.
This deck runs perfectly fine and efficiently without Survival. I'm not convinced that adding a bunch of cards that are only good when you have Survival is worth the slots. I think you'll win more games by just playing more removal. If I was going to play this combo though, I'd definitely include Mikaeus the Unhallowed. Just saying.
I've been really happy with Bloodgift Demon every time. All I want is Arenas, and having access to a large flyer is also pretty valuable (since Glissa's biggest weakness is flying attackers).
Arachnus Spinner is a boss. I can't present an unbiased point of view, since it makes me so happy every time I play a huge spider that I don't even care what else is going, but Spinner/Web has been genuinely awesome for me all the time. This is my top end of choice for GSZ, above Primeval Titan/Avenger of Zendikar/etc. I've tested those: Spider is the winner.
Lignify is unfortunately no good in this deck, by the way. Usually Glissa can't attack if you have to Lignify something, and that's quite bad. Arachnus Web works better most of the time.
I've been very happy with Phyrexian Revoker and satisfied with Ratchet Bomb. (You say you play Engineered Explosives, but it's not in your list?) I think Ratchet Bomb is a little bit better, but it's close (I could see cutting it, but I don't see anything I like better.)
You guys are seriously underestimating Karn. He's been amazing for me every time since adding him and won me a LOT of games I might not have won otherwise. He would be bad in most other decks, for the reasons Gaka stated, but he just does exactly what this deck needs. You have to understand how games with this deck play out: its plan is different from any other deck. It's not aggro, tempo, control, stax, combo, any of that. Rock is closest, but it's not even that really. It's versatile midrange attrition. Your goal is to find some sort of engine that provides you with an incremental advantage every turn, and then just sit on that, stop anything scary your opponent is trying to do, and eventually win through the accumulation of overwhelming card advantage. Ideally, you start stacking engines somewhere in there, to snowball your advantage.
Planeswalkers are really strong in this deck, both because they're another source of turn-by-turn card advantage and because the combination of Glissa + lots of removal is really good at protecting them. Karn is maybe the best one, because he's such a problem-solver and so easy to protect. The fact that he's costs 7 is not a problem: this deck actively wants some high-end anyway, and it's a slow deck. There always comes a good time to play him, eventually, and he never fails to dominate the game when that time comes. Blue decks and creature decks are not scary: this deck is very strong vs both, and Karn is still very useful against them. Even in your opener, who cares...you just mull him, like anything else. This deck tends to mull aggressively to find its engines anyway, so it's not much of a loss. Real men aren't scared of Bob/Tutelage triggers: I once had both in play and flipped Karn, Arachnus Spinner, Grave Titan, and Solemn Simulacrum over 2 turns, and still won that game. If you're drawing extra cards you're winning, have no fear.
Times Karn is good:
1. Your opponent has a permanent you would prefer him not to have.
2. Your opponent has any cards in hand.
Hey dude! Thanks for posting Yes Gaka, I think you have to play Karn a few times and possibly in this deck to feel how good he is. Often because the board turns into a stalemate with Glissa on defense and I can't think of a better topdeck in that situation than Karn (ok maybe Liliana too).
Depths combo, yea I understand your reasoning and cannot disagree. It may work it's way out of my list after a while.
Ooze/Trike/Devourer combo I *will* defend - simply way too good. Wins on the spot, out of nowhere, and instantly. The only downside as I see it is against control. In this case though, survival likely wouldn't resolve anyways and if it does you can tutor up cheaper threats. And, my #1 reason for having the combo is because it gives an alternate win. I enjoy grinding the game out in the classic Glissa way, but variety is good and fun and different win conditions are important.
Yes the list has an error, it should have Engineered Explosives and Sylvok Replica over 2 other cards. I'll double check and find the mistake when I get home. Lots of versions sitting on my computer..
edit: ok, was just plain missing Sylvok Replica from the list so I updated that. I did cut EE from the current list - I don't run it right now. I think I should consider Garruk 1.0 - added to "considering" list. I don't like the mana rocks - rather have spells that need countered.
Seems to me you should be playing Liliana Vess. She does everything you would want her to do; especially the tutoring (seeing as how you run 2 instant win combos). She synergizes with the overall point of your deck (killing creatures - her final ability revives them all), and the targeted discard against control. Between her and Garruk Wildspeaker, I chose to run Liliana in my list. I came to this conclusion for all the reasons stated, as well as who I would rather draw from a topdeck scenario.
Hi, I have my list on here linked in my sig. I based mine of yours largely, and a couple notes are the Necrotic Ooze combo is pretty bad for me so far, the times I could get it I could have just searched for bombs and won. You should really consider Life from the Loam, I've literally won games going turn 1 land mana dork, turn two land Glissa, turn 3 Wasteland/Life from the Loam and just not letting them hit a land drop, whenever they miss a land you get a free drop. More edict effects are good too. Generals like Animar, Thrun and Geist have been popular so they've been super.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Playing: Modern: BWEldrazi and TaxesBW Legacy: WEldraziW
Updated. Cut Depths and Ooze combos. Time to move on.
Added Ulvenwald Tracker. 1/1 for 1, skullclamp fodder, but can bring big game as repeatable removal. Also helps the Animar matchup. I think it's a perfect addition to the deck. Expecting great things from this little guy!
Also added Gravecrawler. Not so much using it for the typical "aggro" application (we don't really attack early), but rather as a kind of Bloodghast: skullclamp fodder and can keep coming back against control (pay B extra everytime Glissa comes back - 3/3 and 2/1 on the board is good pressure). This is in theory anyways.
Last, Phyrexian Obliterator. I admit it's a pet card of mine But with Triangle of War and now Ulvenwald Tracker... there is potential for serious shenanigans. Going to roll with it for a while.
-Also, to iceman: I think Liliana 5cc is just not good enough. I can't think of any black deck in 1v1 french playing it. Ninja: life from the loam seems good yes. Might be worth a slot. Given that the deck runs so much removal there are some "swing" slots that we can play with. While I wouldn't give the card priority, it may be worth checking out.
Competitive 1v1 French Banlist EDH
Why play this version of Glissa?
Play this list if you want a general that interacts with some cool artifacts but is not entirely built around them.
Play this list if you want to try some underplayed and unique yet powerful cards.
Why shouldn’t I play this version of Glissa?
Don’t play this list if you like counterspells. In fact if you do, get the **** out of here! Just kidding. But seriously, blue control can die in a fire. Moving on…
Don’t play this deck if you don’t like having a bad matchup or two (Animar!!! :()
Decklist by card type and arranged by increasing cmc:
1 Glissa, the Traitor
Creatures (27 counting Dryad Arbor):
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Elves of Deep Shadow
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Ulvenwald Tracker
1 Xantid Swarm
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Perilous Myr
1 Lotus Cobra
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Dark Confidant
1 Eternal Witness
1 Sylvok Replica
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Creakwood Liege
1 Skinrender
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Phyrexian Obliterator
1 Shriekmaw
1 Acidic Slime
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Grave Titan
Artifacts (7):
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Triangle of War
1 Skullclamp
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Birthing Pod
1 Sylvan Library
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Dark Tutelage
Sorceries (13):
1 Duress
1 Thoughtseize
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Sign in Blood
1 Night's Whisper
1 Sinkhole
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Yawgmoth's Will
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Damnation
Instants (7):
1 Nature's Claim
1 Victim of Night
1 Go for the Throat
1 Grasp of Darkness
1 Dismember
1 Beast Within
1 Putrefy
Planeswalkers (4):
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Karn Liberated
Lands (37 not counting Dryad Arbor):
9 Swamp
5 Forest
1 City of Brass
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Bayou
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Cabal Pit
1 Twilight Mire
1 Wasteland
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Tainted Wood
1 Khalni Garden
1 Command Tower
1 Polluted Delta
1 Windswept Heath
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Treetop Village
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
Card groups and explanations:
This section considers the major card groups that make Glissa tick along with my own commentary:
First up, let me talk about the mechanics of artifact recursion with Glissa. Glissa, the Traitor says that you may return an artifact card from your graveyard to your hand whenever a creature an opponent controls dies. This ability works well with, for example, Executioner’s Capsule because in order to activate the capsule, you must sacrifice it. The ability goes on the stack, the creature will die, and lucky for us the capsule is already in the graveyard when this happens. Glissa’s ability triggers, Capsule is returned to our hand. Easy peasy. Now, say we have an artifact already in our graveyard and our opponent is attacking with some creature with first strike and 3 or greater power and we block with just Glissa. The creatures trade in combat and die at the same time – this ALSO triggers Glissa’s ability, so we would be able to return that artifact from our graveyard to our hand if we wish. Same goes if we cast Damnation or some other mass kill spell, killing Glissa and our opponent’s creatures at the same time. Keep in mind for a creature to “die” it must go to the graveyard. If your opponent’s commander dies and they choose to place it in the command zone, this is a replacement effect and will NOT trigger Glissa’s ability. (Just like you can’t Skullclamp your general and draw 2 while placing it in the command zone – it’s one or the other)
OK so with that covered, you can imagine there are a ton of artifacts you might want to include with Glissa. Because this decklist is designed for competitive 1v1 play, the “Glissa artifact” package is concise and focused (we only play the best):
Executioner's Capsule (best removal card in the deck)
Triangle of War (capsule 2.0, use with Glissa or any other creature really, but use cautiously if you suspect they can bounce or kill your creature)
Nihil Spellbomb (recurring graveyard removal for 1 mana and can even cantrip. so good.)
Perilous Myr (deceptively powerful little guy and provides colorless damage)
Sylvok Replica (a bit mana-intensive but can be handy in a pinch)
Now obviously there are other artifacts in the deck but these ones are *designed* to be brought back with Glissa and used repeatedly when necessary. But again, it’s never bad to return something like Umezawa’s Jitte to your hand :).
Arena cards (card advantage is king, the first 4 need no explanation):
Phyrexian Arena
Dark Confidant
Sylvan Library
Dark Tutelage
Graveborn Muse (this guy can draw a ton of cards since Glissa is a zombie too)
Bloodgift Demon
Creatures not mentioned so far:
Birds of Paradise
Llanowar Elves
Fyndhorn Elves
Elves of Deep Shadow (the four color-producing one-drop mana dorks)
Ulvenwald Tracker (really sweet with Glissa and other deathtouch guys, I expect great things out of this gorgeous 1 drop!)
Xantid Swarm (anti-control)
Phyrexian Revoker
Acidic Slime (5 cc pod target)
Creakwood Liege (only really playable by a black&green deck, but boy is it good)
Master of the Wild Hunt (similar to Creakwood, can also act as removal)
Grave Titan (svg b-tings)
Eternal Witness (auto include)
Lotus Cobra (nice ramp)
Scavenging Ooze (auto include, even against non-graveyard decks this guy can get huge)
Shriekmaw (2 cc kill spell or 5 cc pod target)
Skinrender (4 cc pod target)
Solemn Simulacrum (good card advantage)
Vampire Nighthawk (pretty solid, at least trades 1 for 1 in combat)
Viridian Shaman (3 cc pod target, spot artifact removal)
Wurmcoil Engine (sick card)
Equipment (only the best):
Umezawa's Jitte (aka I win against aggro)
Sword of Feast and Famine (aka I win against black decks)
Skullclamp (broken)
Planeswalkers (awesome with Glissa who plays defense so well):
Garruk Relentless (Mainly a green removal spell, but great if it survives, can also make bears against control)
Garruk Wildspeaker (Versatile, cost efficient, should probably be in every green EDH deck)
Liliana of the Veil (just awesome)
Karn Liberated (costly but worth it, so versatile)
Board wipe (reset buttons):
Pernicious Deed
Damnation
Other “goodstuff” cards that you see in many other black or green decks, including cheap spot removal, tutors, discard, draw spells, etc. Most of these cards need no explanation.
Duress
Thoughtseize
Inquisition of Kozilek
Hymn to Tourach
Sinkhole
Yawgmoth's Will
Chainer's Edict
Sign in Blood (cardz r gud)
Night's Whisper (cardz r gud)
Maelstrom Pulse
Demonic Tutor
Green Sun's Zenith (toolbox, several good targets)
Nature's Claim (if you play green, play this card! one mana to kill some of the most broken cards)
Beast Within
Go for the Throat
Grasp of Darkness
Dismember
Victim of Night
Putrefy
Birthing Pod (so good, even with the light number of creatures)
Lands (The deck is color hungry so not many “colorless only” lands. All the duals and filters and the usual staples. I will only discuss the unique picks here):
Khalni Garden (I like this card – the 0/1 is free skullclamp food, a chump blocker, well worth coming into play tapped)
Shizo, Death's Storehouse (not too unique I guess, useful to squeeze that last few damage in or to make sure a Sword-equipped creature connects)
Exclusions (the “hey, why aren’t you playing [card]?” list):
Ratchet Bomb and Engineered Explosives: Just too narrow I think. They can't always kill the creature you want to kill, and can't always kill the artifact or enchantment you want to kill. I have just been disappointed when using them.
Expedition Map: Not enough good land targets, not powerful enough to recur with Glissa. Plus this card is too slow for the French meta. Sylvan Scrying would do the same for one less mana and we wouldn’t play that :).
Mindslaver: Too slow. Only good late game against control. Better to use 10 mana to play multiple threats.
More coming eventually…
Matchups:
There are a few cards that really hurt us and need to be dealt with immediately, here they are:
Sword of Feast and Famine – obvious one here. You will generally lose if you don’t deal with it.
Arena cards – hey, card advantage is for us, not our opponent!
Vedalken Shackles - Ouch. Just ouch. Get rid of it!
I won't give win % estimations, I think those are silly especially because games in 1v1 French EDH depend a LOT on the player and the decisions you make. There are good matchups and bad matchups. Just try it for yourself :).
Edric:
Just focus on Edric. Don’t let them get ahead in card advantage. Save spot removal for wise moments. Against the good stuff version, try to get Executioner’s capsule/Glissa recursion going. Against the all-in version with tons of cheap creatures, try to resolve a board wipe - Damnation or Pernicious Deed (since Capsule is technically “slow” if they are dropping 2-3 dudes per turn, better to wipe the board). Your card quality will kick in eventually – if you don’t die early you stand a good chance of winning.
Animar:
This one is difficult (understatement) because of Animar’s pro black and also that he usually doesn’t need to attack to hurt you – they just sit back and combo off. Use your spot removal on the combo enablers – stuff like Imperial Recruiter, Phyrexian Metamorph, etc…Green and colorless damage sources go to Animar obviously. Cards that can kill Animar are Garruk Relentless, Beast Within, Karn Liberated, Damnation, Pernicious Deed, and to a lesser extent stuff like Master of the Wild Hunt, or Triangle of War + a green or artifact creature, or Skullclamp + Perilous Myr. As you can see, many of the ways to kill Animar are slow – if you know it’s combo animar, just mulligan really aggressive. Try to get a tutor (to get the answer), an arena (to draw into it), or the answer itself.
More coming eventually…
Adjustments I am considering:
More creatures, less removal. I wish I could run more creatures but I feel like in order to run creatures I would lose more powerful cards. There just aren’t enough aggressively costed, high value creatures in Black/Green. Maybe you guys can help out and convince me otherwise?
Cards I wish existed:
Finally, big thanks to Khymera for helping focus the deck and making it more competitive. And all the Cockatrice crew for the testing.
Changelog:
3/2/2012
+ Sylvok Replica (error in list, was missing the card)
4/24/2012
- Necrotic Ooze, Triskelion, Phyrexian Devourer, Vampire Hexmage, Dark Depths, Crop Rotation, Survival of the Fittest
+ Ulvenwald Tracker, Phyrexian Obliterator, Swamp, Chainer's Edict, Garruk Wildspeaker, Gravecrawler, Phyrexian Revoker
8/6/2012
- Reanimate, Gravecrawler
+ Bloodgift Demon, Xantid Swarm
Times Karn is good:
1. You're already winning
2. Topdeck mode versus a tapped out, handless blue player
3. Attrition War versus a creatureless, removalless deck.
Times Karn is bad:
1. Your opener
2. Whenever the blue player has cards in hand
3. Against any creature based deck ever
4. Red decks
5. You're losing
6. ect
Karn is simply not that good. At seven mana, he doesn't impact the board enough, unless you're in a position to be winning anyways, where any other spell will do. If you see him in your opener the hand instantly gets worse to the point of unplayability. He's terrible against most decks and usually won't resolve or will come down too late to matter. 7 mana is far too much in this format.
He also pretty much kills you off of a bob or tutelage trigger.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
For the record, my list differs from Kwiznek by the following 12 cards.
-Vampire Hexmage
-Dark Depths
-Crop Rotation
-Necrotic Ooze
-Triskelion
-Phyrexian Devourer
-Survival of the Fittest
-Viridian Shaman
-Shriekmaw
-Sinkhole
-Reanimate
+Sylvok Replica
+Phyrexian Revoker
+Sudden Death
+Deathmark
+Ratchet Bomb
+Arachnus Web
+Arachnus Spinner
+Bloodgift Demon
+Garruk Wildspeaker
+Golgari Signet
+Coldsteel Heart
+Forest
I tested the Hexmage/Depths combo extensively a few months ago and was never happy with it. While I was testing, I felt like I actually got extremely lucky in terms of drawing the combo frequently and not getting stuck with useless parts...but the combo just wasn't winning me any games. I even had the absolutely perfect start of Duress into turn 2 Marit Lage, and my opponent just topdecked Into the Roil and destroyed me. Obviously, this is all anecdotal, but I was seriously unimpressed with the combo every time. And Hexmage was never useful by itself. It sounds like you just added this combo to try to get a little more reach, but I'm pretty certain it doesn't belong in this deck.
I'm not a huge fan of the Ooze combo either, though it's better than the first one. It just has too many moving parts for my taste in a deck that doesn't prioritize tutors. This sounds like blasphemy, but I've never felt that Survival of the Fittest was optimal in this deck: it simply doesn't fit what we try to do. Outside of this combo you just jammed in, there aren't any creatures we want in the graveyard, and there aren't that many creatures in the deck at all. When I tested it in this deck, Survival most just read "GG1, Discard a creature: tutor a creature." That's a crappy card. There aren't any creatures you want to naturally chain together through Survival, so you wind up not using it or just trying to topdeck. I played so many games where Survival would just sit in my hand all game because I never had reason or opportunity to cast it: there was always a better play.
This deck runs perfectly fine and efficiently without Survival. I'm not convinced that adding a bunch of cards that are only good when you have Survival is worth the slots. I think you'll win more games by just playing more removal. If I was going to play this combo though, I'd definitely include Mikaeus the Unhallowed. Just saying.
I've been really happy with Bloodgift Demon every time. All I want is Arenas, and having access to a large flyer is also pretty valuable (since Glissa's biggest weakness is flying attackers).
Arachnus Spinner is a boss. I can't present an unbiased point of view, since it makes me so happy every time I play a huge spider that I don't even care what else is going, but Spinner/Web has been genuinely awesome for me all the time. This is my top end of choice for GSZ, above Primeval Titan/Avenger of Zendikar/etc. I've tested those: Spider is the winner.
Lignify is unfortunately no good in this deck, by the way. Usually Glissa can't attack if you have to Lignify something, and that's quite bad. Arachnus Web works better most of the time.
I've been very happy with Phyrexian Revoker and satisfied with Ratchet Bomb. (You say you play Engineered Explosives, but it's not in your list?) I think Ratchet Bomb is a little bit better, but it's close (I could see cutting it, but I don't see anything I like better.)
You guys are seriously underestimating Karn. He's been amazing for me every time since adding him and won me a LOT of games I might not have won otherwise. He would be bad in most other decks, for the reasons Gaka stated, but he just does exactly what this deck needs. You have to understand how games with this deck play out: its plan is different from any other deck. It's not aggro, tempo, control, stax, combo, any of that. Rock is closest, but it's not even that really. It's versatile midrange attrition. Your goal is to find some sort of engine that provides you with an incremental advantage every turn, and then just sit on that, stop anything scary your opponent is trying to do, and eventually win through the accumulation of overwhelming card advantage. Ideally, you start stacking engines somewhere in there, to snowball your advantage.
Planeswalkers are really strong in this deck, both because they're another source of turn-by-turn card advantage and because the combination of Glissa + lots of removal is really good at protecting them. Karn is maybe the best one, because he's such a problem-solver and so easy to protect. The fact that he's costs 7 is not a problem: this deck actively wants some high-end anyway, and it's a slow deck. There always comes a good time to play him, eventually, and he never fails to dominate the game when that time comes. Blue decks and creature decks are not scary: this deck is very strong vs both, and Karn is still very useful against them. Even in your opener, who cares...you just mull him, like anything else. This deck tends to mull aggressively to find its engines anyway, so it's not much of a loss. Real men aren't scared of Bob/Tutelage triggers: I once had both in play and flipped Karn, Arachnus Spinner, Grave Titan, and Solemn Simulacrum over 2 turns, and still won that game. If you're drawing extra cards you're winning, have no fear.
Times Karn is good:
1. Your opponent has a permanent you would prefer him not to have.
2. Your opponent has any cards in hand.
Times Karn is bad:
?
Depths combo, yea I understand your reasoning and cannot disagree. It may work it's way out of my list after a while.
Ooze/Trike/Devourer combo I *will* defend - simply way too good. Wins on the spot, out of nowhere, and instantly. The only downside as I see it is against control. In this case though, survival likely wouldn't resolve anyways and if it does you can tutor up cheaper threats. And, my #1 reason for having the combo is because it gives an alternate win. I enjoy grinding the game out in the classic Glissa way, but variety is good and fun and different win conditions are important.
Yes the list has an error, it should have Engineered Explosives and Sylvok Replica over 2 other cards. I'll double check and find the mistake when I get home. Lots of versions sitting on my computer..
edit: ok, was just plain missing Sylvok Replica from the list so I updated that. I did cut EE from the current list - I don't run it right now. I think I should consider Garruk 1.0 - added to "considering" list. I don't like the mana rocks - rather have spells that need countered.
Playing:
Modern:
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
Legacy:
WEldraziW
Added Ulvenwald Tracker. 1/1 for 1, skullclamp fodder, but can bring big game as repeatable removal. Also helps the Animar matchup. I think it's a perfect addition to the deck. Expecting great things from this little guy!
Also added Gravecrawler. Not so much using it for the typical "aggro" application (we don't really attack early), but rather as a kind of Bloodghast: skullclamp fodder and can keep coming back against control (pay B extra everytime Glissa comes back - 3/3 and 2/1 on the board is good pressure). This is in theory anyways.
Obvious inclusion was Garruk Wildspeaker - just a great versatile card.
Last, Phyrexian Obliterator. I admit it's a pet card of mine But with Triangle of War and now Ulvenwald Tracker... there is potential for serious shenanigans. Going to roll with it for a while.
-Also, to iceman: I think Liliana 5cc is just not good enough. I can't think of any black deck in 1v1 french playing it. Ninja: life from the loam seems good yes. Might be worth a slot. Given that the deck runs so much removal there are some "swing" slots that we can play with. While I wouldn't give the card priority, it may be worth checking out.
Playing:
Modern:
BWEldrazi and TaxesBW
Legacy:
WEldraziW