Alright, tournament's over (I took 2nd, losing to funlicker's Adun Oakenshield in the finals), and I can finally update my list. This OP is overdue for a change anyway.
-Krosan Verge
-Tajuru Preserver
-True Believer
-Yavimaya Dryad
-Solemn Simulacrum
-Willow Satyr
-Genesis
-Sword of Light and Shadow
-Aura of Silence
-Snake Umbra
-Rites of Flourishing
-Heartbeat of Spring
-Condemn
I give you the world's slowest combo deck. This list evolved from d0su's, but has become different enough to warrant its own thread, especially now that the forums have been separated. I've been playing with this deck for quite a long time now, and it's still one of my favorite and most successful lists. It's a good choice for people who like combo decks and like to win, but also like interactivity and feel lame winning on turn 4.
The basic idea of this deck is to use Gaddock Teeg to slow down your opponent long enough to eventually win through an infinite combo. Gaddock Teeg is extremely powerful against many of the control and combo decks that are so popular in this format--certain decks can't even realistically win with him in play.
Gaddock Teeg is great against many decks--but only so long as he stays in play. As such, we want to focus as much as possible on cards that help prevent him from dying. Shroud is probably the most important consideration, as most mass removal spells cannot be played through Teeg.
Teeg is great against many decks--but not against all. Some decks, most notably decks that are very creature heavy, can essentially ignore him. For these situations, we can take advantage of all the protective spells we have and run other powerful (but fragile) creatures, and rely on those to lock an opponent down.
The subtitle for this thread comes from all the many games I've played where I have yet to find a win condition, but have still managed to construct an essentially unbeatable board position. Even something as simple as Gaddock Teeg, Sylvan Safekeeper, and Platinum Angel or Peacekeeper is literally unbeatable for many decks.
These are the cornerstones of the deck:
1) combo
2) annoying creatures
3) protection for those creatures
Those are the important things. We also play some removal, acceleration, and tutors to make everything run smoothly, but those cornerstones are what make the deck.
You'll note that every spell in this deck can be played through Gaddock Teeg. This is important. In many games, Teeg enters play very early in the game, and he never exits play. There is no reason to assume that your defenses will be breached, giving you an opening to cast 4+ cc spells--usually, they won't be. Don't play cards that will be dead when Teeg is in play, as they will dead in your hand more often than not.
COMBO:
We have 3 combos in this deck, all very capable of winning the game.
Technically not the combo, but this is the only way the combo is ever assembled (and the only card you need). The actual combo is Reveillark + Karmic Guide + Mirror Entity, along with either Saffi Eriksdotter + Yosei, the Morning Star or just Acidic Slime. Dump stuff in the graveyard, evoke Reveillark, recurring Mirror Entity and Karmic Guide (targeting Reveillark). Stack a hundred or so Entity activations for 0. Recur Karmic Guide + Saffi, sac Saffi targeting Reveillark, Next time use Karmic Guide to recur Yosei. Repeat, to tap all your opponents permanents and make them skip an arbitrarily large number of untap steps.
I hardly want to include this one, as it's unwieldy and rarely happens, but you can potentially win this way, so you should be aware of it.
ANNOYING CREATURES:
Peacekeeper:
Undoubtedly the most important, next to Mr. Teeg. Teeg is weakest against creature-based decks, which is where Peacekeeper shines. Many decks have an extremely difficult time winning if you can find Peacekeeper and protect her.
Linvala, Keeper of Silence:
A new addition, but a spectacular one. Linvala is excellent at shutting down many popular generals and utility creatures, from Captain Sisay to Jhoira to Oona to Rofellos. She's also great against creatures that work as repeatable removal, like Tradewind Rider, Sparksmith, or Kiku, Night's Flower--this kind of card used to be a significant problem for this deck, but no longer.
Platinum Angel:
Expensive, but you can't lose. You can't lose. What more could you want? Usually Platinum Angel isn't very good in EDH because most decks can't adequately protect it, but this deck is better at protecting creatures than any other deck in the format. It is not particularly difficult to make Platinum Angel invincible in this deck.
Aven Mindcensor:
People love their tutors. When opponents do have some kind of out to your board position, they usually don't have more than one or two. Mindcensor helps keep your opponent from finding it, and is just sort of generally great against all kinds of combo decks, black decks, and Sisay/Lin-Sivvi decks.
Preacher:
Very solid against most decks, so long as they don't have huge swarms of tokens. It's also excellent with sacrifice outlets, giving you removal every turn.
Protection for Annoying Creatures:
Mother of Runes:
Fantastic early game drop, blanking most kinds of spot removal.
Sylvan Safekeeper:
Not very good early game, though it can be useful, but ridiculously powerful late-game, providing shroud to any of your creatures when needed.
Saffi Eriksdotter:
Not only (or even primarily) a combo piece, she's great at taking one for the team.
Lightning Greaves:
Obviously great here. We also have a couple of equipment-tutors to help find it.
Sword of Fire and Ice:
Protection from blue and red is frequently useful. This equipment also provides an important alternate win-condition, particularly against creature-light decks. I've won many games by just giving Teeg a Sword and beating for 21. Sniping creatures and drawing cards makes this Sword effective even if you're not winning through damage, and even if the protections aren't relevant. I no longer run Sword of Light and Shadow, as it just wasn't efficient enough for the cost and the triggered abilities are much weaker.
Stonecloaker:
Not ideal, as it tends to give your opponent a little window, but at least it saves a creature (obviously doubles as graveyard hate as well).
Adarkar Valkyrie:
Fairly slow, but very versatile, and beats in the air.
OTHER:
Most of the tutors, removal, and acceleration should be self-explanatory. So are the combo pieces: they're for winning the game.
Tournament Report!:
I took 2nd in the 4th MWS EDH Tournament (hosted by Surging_Chaos) with this list. Here's a brief recount of my games.
I'll note that I had been awake for about 24 hours when playing this match, so my notes are a little sketchy and I made some embarrassing play mistakes.)
Game 1:
I forgot to record my starting hand this game, but did so in subsequent matches.
I start strong with Mother of Runes, but my turn 2 Teeg gets Force of Willed, and he Vampiric Tutors for something. I have Lightning Greaves on turn 3, which he thinks about and allows. I resolve Teeg and equip Lightning Greaves the following turn, with him not really doing much. My Linvala gets Forbidden (with buyback), and so does Dauntless Escort the next turn (without buyback this time). I resolve Idyllic Tutor for Sylvan Library (I thought about getting Survival of the Fittest, but didn't have any creatures left in hand and just wanted more cards).
The next turn I resolve the Library, and make my biggest mistake of the tournament. Not having seen Wydwen played yet, I just kind of...forgot about her, and attacked with Teeg into 4 untapped lands. Of course, he flashes in Wydwen to block, and I can't even save him with Mother of Runes because of the Greaves. Slightly tilted, I then make another mistake, playing Aven Mindcensor and equipping Greaves (I should have equipped Mother of Runes, so I could protect the Aven with her). I pay for it next turn when he plays and equips Umezawa's Jitte and attacks, because now I can't block with a pro-black Aven. Oh well.
The next turn I draw 3 cards off Library, one of which is fortunately my own Jitte. I play it to blow up his (losing Mother of Runes, but not the shrouded Aven), and play Gaea's Cradle into Archon of Justice, which gets Miscalculation'd. I replay Teeg the next turn, meeting Cryptic Command. The following turn I finally resolve Teeg again, and murder his Jace Beleren with my Aven (he's trying to race with Wydwen + my Sylvan Library, but isn't making much progress).
Next turn, my Sun Titan is Remanded, and my Reveillark meets Pact of Negation. Incidentally, I realize at this point that I've been tapping my turn 3 Selesnya Sanctuary for 1 mana almost the entire game...oops. Sleep is good, kids. Anyway, it doesn't matter, as Sun Titan resolves the next turn, recurring my Jitte. I equip it with Jitte and Greaves, and attack, recurring Dauntless Escort. He draws, shows me a doubly blocked Damnation (Teeg/Escort), and concedes.
Game 2:
I mull into a slow, but passable hand with 3 lands, Strip Mine, Stonecloaker, and Primeval Titan.
I Strip his opening Island, which leaves him stuck on 1 land for 1 turn, but then he hits a streak of lands and gets out of it. My Teeg gets hit by Innocent Blood, but Yavimaya Elder sticks, and then Teeg again the turn after. I find Sterling Grove, which I break at his eot for Survival of the Fittest. He cycles Misdirection in response to my Survival, but doesn't find a real counter. I ditch Stonecloaker to find Knight of the Reliquary, and play it, but he grabs it with Sower of Temptation. To get rid of it, I ditch Reveillark for Stoneforge Mystic, get Jitte, play and equip it to Yavimaya Elder. He blocks with the Knight, and I kill the Sower with the Jitte.
Next turn, he has Phyrexian Arena and his own Jitte. Out of creatures I want to discard, I break a Horizon Canopy to try to find one, but whiff. I wind up having to ditch the Primeval Titan to get the much better Sun Titan, which resolves and recurs Stonecloaker, which RFGs something irrelevant and bounces my Stoneforge Mystic (I should definitely have just gotten Strip Mine back instead, but I failed to notice it in my graveyard). I still grab a Wasteland with KotR though. On his turn, he Bojuka Bogs me, which is sad, and Gilded Drakes my Titan, which is even worse. I have to Swords to Plowshares the Titan, but then I replay the Mystic, get Sword of Fire and Ice, use KotR to get Gaea's Cradle, and use the mana to play Lightning Greaves, equip the Mystic, and put the Sword into play for 1W (he spins his SDT in response, presumably looking for Stifle and not finding it). I suit Teeg up with everything, and smash him down to 6 life. He Impulses for an answer on his turn, doesn't find one, and concedes.
I find that this kind of win is typical against blue based decks--they can stop a whole bunch of random things, but they don't have enough answers to deal with everything, so I just slowly build up an army and grind them down. I find that I rarely go for any of the combos against blue decks, because just gaining incremental advantages and smashing in the red zone is safer and works fine. If I went for a combo, knocking out one key piece could stop my plans...but when I'm just playing good cards and getting in hits, there are too many threats for them to handle.
This game is so sad. I have mull my whole hand twice to find any lands at all, and wind up having to go with a hand of Wooded Foothills, Tithe, Steelshaper's Gift, Knight of the Reliquary, and Mirror Entity. Pretty bad on the play, but it could get there.
Only...I get destroyed by land destruction. I Gift for Sword of Fire and Ice on my first turn, because I need to get full value out of Tithe, and end up not playing anything on turn 2. Unfortunately, his turn 1 Arbor Elf gets him a turn 2 Ice Storm, so I have to Tithe for Temple Garden in response. I do draw a few lands after that, but he has land destruction for all of them, so I never manage to reach 2 lands. He follows up the Ice Storm with Winter's Grasp, Strip Mine, Wort, Fallow Earth, entwined and copied Reap and Sow, and Regal Force, before I die to tokens and such.
Game 2:
This is more like it. I mull into an interesting hand with 3 lands, Steelshaper's Gift, Land Tax, and Scroll Rack (I actually got Land Tax AND Scroll Rack off my mull.)
I don't even have to slow-roll a land, as he turns on my turn 1 Land Tax with Fastbond into Llanowar Elves. I use the Tax on turn 2 and play Teeg. He Gambles for something with 2 cards in hand and discards Imperial Recruiter, so he probably got lucky. On my turn 3, I use the Tax again, play Scroll Rack and rack away 9 cards. Disgusted by Teeg and my ridiculous card advantage engine, he concedes.
Game 3:
This match was epic. Unfortunately, my starting hand is miserable, as I once again draw Tithe and 6 other spells. I keep Tithe and mull the rest...5 more spells. I mull the 5 spells, and get...4 lands. Great. Tithe and 4 lands it is.
He starts with Llanowar Elves into Sylvan Library, and I'm lucky enough to topdeck a Sylvan Library of my own. He draws 3 cards, and plays Imperial Recruiter for Siege-Gang Commander, my nemesis. I draw 2 cards, play and pop a fetchland, and play Teeg. (I should have Wastelanded his Taiga, instead of playing the fetchland, but I was distracted by writing notes and didn't notice.) He draws 1 card, plays Birds of Paradise, and Gambles, discarding Saproling Symbiosis (so he must have gotten what he wanted). I draw 2 cards, and play Earthcraft, Fauna Shaman, and Lightning Greaves, suiting up Teeg. On his turn, he draws 2 cards, plays SGC, and shoots my Shaman with a goblin. I draw and play Stuffy Doll. I needed some blockers, and didn't have anything else to play.
He Worldly Tutors in upkeep for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, draws 2 cards, plays Kiki-Jiki, and passes without attacking. I draw Steelshaper's Gift, get Sword of Fire and Ice, play it, and have to equip it to the Doll, which is pretty awkward. I attack with the 2/3 Doll, and since all his green creatures are tapped, it gets through, killing Kiki-Jiki. He copies SGC for a few extra goblins in response, and shoots me for 2 at eot (down to 15). On his turn he attacks with 7 1/1s (Llanowar Elves, Imperial Recruiter, and 5 Goblins). I block and kill the Llanowar Elves (mistake, should have killed the Recruiter), dropping to 9. He has 8 mana untapped, so he could bring me to 1 with SGC, but can't quite kill me. Instead, he decides to Regrowth and replay Kiki-Jiki. I draw 1 (clearly can't take any more damage), and Duplicant the SGC. He's tapped down, so he can't stop me from RFGing it (though he does make a copy for 3 more goblins). This is probably the most crucial play of the game.
On his turn, he copies the Imperial Recruiter (which I could easily have blocked and killed, but didn't), and gets Acidic Slime, killing Duplicant (I untap a land with Earthcraft in response, giving me enough mana to use my Kor Haven). He attacks with all his little tokens, dropping me to 3.
I draw and think for a while. I know I need Peacekeeper or I'm just dead on his turn, and at first I don't think I can get it. However, I eventually realize that I can use this Karmic Guide I've been holding for a while to reanimate Fauna Shaman, equip the Shaman with Lightning Greaves, and discard the Aven Mindcensor I've also been holding to get Peacekeeper! Awesome! So I do that and play Peacekeeper, and use my last 2 mana to equip her with Sword of Fire and Ice and Lightning Greaves. I'm definitely all-in on Peacekeeper surviving.
He plays Skullclamp (uh oh) and starts going nuclear. Copies Imperial Recruiter, gets Eternal Witness, clamps 4 tokens, Fastbond, dumps extra lands, Wort.
I manage to find a creature (Sylvan Safekeeper) in my top 3, which I discard to get Platinum Angel, and equip it with Greaves. I'm just trying to cover my bases in becoming unkillable at this point. I'm a little worried about artifact removal, which I'm sure he has, but I don't have any better targets: it's a bit too late for Linvala to be good. It's possible I should have just played the Safekeeper and made my creatures impervious to spot removal, but I was concerned that he might have a way to win without removing Peacekeeper or Gaddock Teeg.
He goes nuts on his next turn...clamps 4 tokens, Deranged Hermit, clamps 2 more tokens, conspires a Sylvan Scrying for Gaea's Cradle and Deserted Temple, Fastbonds a bunch of lands into play, Avenger of Zendikar, untaps Cradle with Deserted Temple, makes 40 mana, plays Earthcraft, copies Avenger of Zendikar and has basically unlimited mana and tokens. He clamps like 20 tokens and draws his entire deck, conspires an Artifact Mutation on my protective equipment, plays Ashnod's Altar...and then thinks for a long time and concedes, realizing that he simply can't win through my creatures. It's games like this that gave my deck its name. Can you even win? No, no you can't.
I may have been overconfident going into this match. I felt very favored here, as Teeg was extremely strong against his list.
Game 1:
This game went just like I expected. I kept a hand with 4 lands (including High Market), Preacher, Knight of the Reliquary, and Krosan Grip.
He has a lot of fast mana (Mana Vault, Grim Monolith) and a Grim Tutor, but seems light on action. I curve Teeg into Knight of the Reliquary into Preacher + High Market. After padding the lands in my graveyard by getting Strip Mine with KotR, I start bashing for 8 a turn. He's unable to play Rakdos (or any other creatures) because of my Preacher. When I decide to KotR up Wasteland, he does Terminate Teeg in response, but I just replay him, and he dies shortly after.
Game 2:
I think I got horribly unlucky to lose this one. I kept a strong hand with Plains, Wooded Bastion, Kor Haven, Qasali Pridemage, Krosan Grip, Sword of Fire and Ice, and Rebuff the Wicked.
However, he's on the play, and his turn 2 Hymn to Tourach hits the Squirrel Nest I drew...and the Wooded Bastion (I had played the Plains first to avoid Wasteland). There goes my only source of green mana. I draw Gaea's Cradle the next turn, which isn't exactly what I needed, and then fail to draw another green source or cheap white creature for the next 7 turns, after which Rakdos eats my face.
Game 3:
This one was more interesting. I mull into a hand with 3 lands, Tithe, Scroll Rack, and Harmonic Sliver, which seems okay.
My turn 2 Teeg is unfortunately sniped by a Mana Vault-fueled Flametongue Kavu, which starts beating me down. He also Imperial Recruiters for Bone Shredder the following turn, which makes me paranoid and probably makes me misplay. I start Scroll Racking for 4-5 per turn, but am not really finding anything to stop the Bone Shredder, though I do get Survival of the Fittest, which I use to get Yavimaya Elder, which trades with the Kavu beating me down and refills my hand. He's just playing accelerators and Lightning Greaves during this time.
There comes a crucial turn for me where it's clear that he could be attacking with a hasted, shrouded Rakdos on his next turn. I'm still trying to find a way to stop my key creatures dying from that stupid Bone Shredder, so I Rack for 5...and wind up with 2 lands, Tithe, Guilty Conscience and Sylvan Library. Awkward. In retrospect, I should have just used to Survival to find Peacekeeper. It would have died, but it would have prevented the Rakdos attack for another turn, which might give me time to find Karmic Guide or Swords to Plowshares or something. Instead, I'm forced to play Sylvan Library and pass.
As expected, Rakdos smashes in, nuking both our boards a bit. I'm in a tough spot, because an unprotected Peacekeeper won't cut it anymore, and I can't kill Rakdos with shroud. I wind up tutoring for a Harmonic Sliver to destroy the Greaves (Sliver over Pridemage, so I have another permanent to sacrifice), and put Guilty Conscience on Rakdos. Sucks to have to take another attack, but at least he won't be able to replay it...Undeterred, Killkeny plays Vampiric Tutor, Solemn Simulacrum, and attacks, leaving us both with nothing but 2 lands in play (I realized after the game that I could have saved another permanent if I sacrificed the Guilty Conscience, but I missed it during the game).
At this point, we're basically just in a topdeck war, as we each have nothing in play and nothing in hand. We both draw quite well, hitting a bunch of lands. Unfortunately, I then continue to draw lands and irrelevant cards like Earthcraft, while he's drawing creatures and removal. I eventually find Dauntless Escort, which finally draws out that Bone Shredder. Teeg gets killed by a Smallpox that puts me to 1, and I'm just about dead. There's a point where I almost stabilize, as he has nothing but Goblin Settler and lands in play and nothing in hand, and I found a Sakura-Tribe Elder to block (with 5 lands in play and Sun Titan in hand)...but then he topdecks Recurring Nightmare, and it's all over.
ID. We would have played, but we were both having issues finding a time, despite both being in Los Angeles. First he flaked, then I flaked...Eventually it became clear that we were both going to make top 8 with a draw anyway, so we just decided to meet in the top 8.
Game 2: I have a nicely redundant hand with 3 lands, Lignify, Arrest, Idyllic Tutor, and Worldly Tutor.
He starts out explosive with Ancient Tomb, Mana Vault (he's had this turn 1 3/4 games now), and Expedition Map. He has a Thoughtseize the following turn, prompting me to Worldly Tutor for Bloom Tender in response. He groans at my pair of enchantments, and takes Lignify. I play Bloom Tender on my turn, and he breaks the Map for Strip Mine. He has Tangle Wire on his turn, which I don't really care about. I think he's a little strained for colored mana, though he has plenty of colorless. While Tangle Wire ticks down, he strips one of my lands and plays Price of Glory, while I squeeze out Teeg. Once the Wire isn't hindering me, I Idyllic Tutor for Survival of the Fittest, play it, and discard something to get Peacekeeper (I have to do it on my turn because of Price of Glory, and I'm most worried about Rakdos). He continues to do nothing on his turn, and I draw Karmic Guide, so I just pitch the Peacekeeper for Yosei, the Morning Star, pitch Yosei for Mirror Entity, and Karmic Guide Yosei into play (with High Market untapped). He draws and concedes, knowing that I can go infinite with Reveillark on my next turn.
I knew this was going to be a tough match for me. I know his deck well, having designed the initial version of it. It's resilient to Teeg and the rest of the gang, and consistently combos much faster than my deck. I was not expecting to win this one.
Game 1:
I keep a slightly sketchy hand with Plains, Selesnya Sanctuary, Survival of the Fittest, Lignify, Preacher, Idyllic Tutor, and Harmonic Sliver. Great cards, but the mana could be a little shaky.
He won the die roll and led with Library of Alexandria...not what I want to see. He milks it every turn, of course. His second play is Darkest Hour, while I haven't drawn a land and have to discard a Fauna Shaman after playing Selesnya Sanctuary. Luckily, he can't destroy it, as he just plays Stoneforge Mystic, getting Skullclamp. I finally draw a land, and play Survival of the Fittest. He just clamps up the Mystic and attacks on his turn, so I fetch up a Qasali Pridemage at eot. (I didn't have any obvious targets, and Pridemage is good at screwing up most of his attempts to combo. With Library of Alexandria going, I was expecting him to combo off any time now.)
I play Pridemage on my turn, but it doesn't last long. On his turn, he plays Nether Traitor and attempts to clamp it. I bite, and destroy the Skullclamp in response. He's already drawn a million cards, but apparently hasn't found what he needs...I'm not about to let him draw more. On my turn, I play Harmonic Sliver, hitting the Darkest Hour: again, I'm expecting him to go off any moment, so I'm just trying to shut down as many combo pieces as I can. I have a couple spare mana, so I play Teeg too, though he's mediocre against Teysa. He plays Phyrexian Arena on his turn (seriously, more card draw?), and I finally find a Strip Mine to deal with the LoA, though it's a bit late to the party. I've also drawn Earthcraft, so I play it and Idyllic Tutor for Squirrel Nest. Gotta go for it, right?
On his turn, he plays Flagstones of Trokair...and passes, with a full grip of cards. I have no idea what the hell is going on in his hand, but I'll take it. I topdeck Wasteland and hit his Scrubland, as I don't need the mana (though he has plenty of lands). He groans...apparently the Wasteland screwed up his plans. I play Squirrel Nest and pass, ready to make squirrels. He Vampiric Tutors at eot and thinks for a really long time, unsure of what to do. He eventually concludes that he punted, gets something, and draws to see what he gets off Arena. When it's not what he needs, he concedes.
I had no idea how I won that one, with him drawing like 15 extra cards throughout the game, but it somehow got there. MCR told me about his situation after the game...apparently, he was 1 mana off from killing me in 2 different ways, and I had just the perfect selection of answers. He had the whole Phyrexian Altar/Nether Traitor/Teysa combo, which produces infinite mana and tokens to sacrifice. He also had the kill card, Profane Command, but that was blocked by Teeg. If I hadn't destroyed the Skullclamp, he could have drawn his deck and won, but Skullclamp was gone. He was also 1 mana off from winning with Teysa/Painter's Servant/Altar of Dementia: if I hadn't destroyed Darkest Hour AND wasted his Scrubland, he would have been able to pull it off. I was definitely very lucky to scrape through that game with a win. Yay squirrels.
Game 2:
I mull into a pretty sweet hand with Plains, Strip Mine, Tithe, Mother of Runes, Sakura-Tribe Elder, and Pithing Needle.
He starts with Skullclamp, while I play Mother of Runes. Then he has Orzhov Basilica...nice. I Strip it of course, and it turns out he kept a 2-lander. He gets stuck on 1 Swamp for 3 turns, while I accelerate with Sakura-Tribe Elder, Worldly Tutor into Aven Mindcensor (he has a lot of tutors, and blocking a fetchland would be great) and play Teeg. Unfortunately, I've drawn no other action at all, and the best thing I can do after that is Otherworldly Journey Teeg to 3/3, so he beats down slightly more effectively. He finally finds a land to play Mox Diamond, and Demonic Tutors, looking for Balance, I'm sure, which would totally wreck me. I remind him of the Mindcensor though, and he fails to find Balance or Sickening Dreams in his top 4. On my turn I draw and play Yosei, the Morning Star. He draws a Flagstones of Trokair, looks at his top 2 cards, and concedes. He's dead to my creatures in a couple of turns, and his hand is powerful, but clunky. Nothing to save him. Whew.
This was one of the only decks in the top 8 that was really an unknown to me. I had played 1 game against an earlier version of it months ago. I remember that I lost to some ridiculous loops with Adun and Aether Vial, but not much else. I didn't know any of the intricacies of this list.
Well, it turns out that his deck might as well have been designed to beat mine. It's almost completely Teeg-proof, extremely light on artifacts and enchantments (which this deck is excellent at dealing with), and very effectively abuses the graveyard (my only graveyard hate is Stonecloaker, which can't really handle the volume his deck puts out). He also has some cards I really, really hate to see, like Pernicious Deed and especially Crypt Rats.
Game 1:
I do not get off to an auspicious start, when he Strip Mines my first land, plays Imperial Seal, and then Life from the Loam locks me on turn 3, leaving me stuck on 1 land. I'm pretty sure I can't win, but decide to play it out just in case (and to see some more of his deck). I did make a really huge mistake here...I had Enlightened Tutor in my opening hand, but wasn't used to using it (I think this is the first time I've drawn it in the tournament, and I hadn't played this deck since the semifinals). I thought about it early on turn 3 and concluded that I didn't have any artifacts/enchantments that could get me out of the Strip Mine lock, but I forgot about the Pithing Needle, which would have actually worked. I didn't realize until several turns after it was too late though.
Anyway, I wound up having more of a chance that I expected. He didn't really have any pressure on me, and I was able to get up to 2 lands by leading with Wooded Foothills. He then opted to let me get to 3 by playing Badlands instead of Strip Mine, so I was getting closer and closer to the Linvala, Keeper of Silence in my hand, which would have given me a shot. I even topdecked Pithing Needle, though it didn't really help me (he promptly destroyed it with Viridian Zealot, and had Wasteland too). Unfortunately, we had a connection error right before I was about to (probably) play Linvala, and were unable to reconnect or synchronize. We decided to just play 2 more games and decide from there (unless we go 1-1, the first game doesn't matter, and I wasn't liking my chances).
Game 2:
I mull into a decent hand with 4 lands, Linvala, and Eternal Witness.
He has a Boreal Druid to start, but nothing to quickly accelerate into. I have turn 2 Teeg, while he has a turn 3 Sign in Blood. I draw and play Cultivate (and miss an attack because I'm writing, but it wouldn't have mattered). He decides to attack Boreal Druid into Teeg...I think about it decide not to block, because I have no idea what he could have. The most likely card (if it wasn't a bluff) seemed like Darkblast, and it didn't seem worth the risk. He plays Adun after combat.
I have Linvala, Keeper of Silence on my turn, which he promptly hits with Maelstrom Pulse, and then Eternal Witness to get the Pulse back. On my turn, I Karmic Guide Linvala back into play. He attacks with Witness, which I don't block because I don't want him to be able to recur it, Pulses Linvala again, and plays Viridian Zealot. I play Eternal Witness on my turn, to hopefully stick Linvala this time...but he blows me out with Shred Memory for all 4 cards in my graveyard. Ouch.
He attacks with Eternal Witness and Viridian Zealot, and I'm willing to trade my Witness for the Zealot. He doesn't play anything else after combat. I draw Stonecloaker (score!), play a land, and pass. At eot, he Darkblasts his own Eternal Witness, and tries to recur it with Adun, to which I respond by RFGing the Witness with Stonecloaker. He makes a comment that he tapped his mana wrong (he has 2 untapped), which really should have clued me in. I have 5 lands untapped, so I really should have played Stonecloaker again to nab the Darkblast, but I was more concerned about the Viridian Zealot. Had I known more about the contents of his deck, I would definitely have just taken the Darkblast, a decision that might possibly have won me this game. Instead, I just passed the turn, and used Stonecloaker when he tried to Adun back the Viridian Zealot in his main phase (despite knowing that it was a trap). Of course, he had Terminate to take it out, though at least I got the Zealot.
I really have nothing meaningful in hand at this point (I think it's just Land Tax and Harmonic Sliver, and I have more lands than him, and he has no artifacts/enchantments). Unfortunately, I don't draw anything relevant for 4 or 5 more turns, which gives him time to completely take over the game. He finds a Bazaar of Baghdad, which lets him dredge a bunch of cards into the graveyard each turn with Darkblast. He also finds Crypt Rats, which is probably the nail in the coffin. I can't really beat that card without Linvala, Pithing Needle, or maybe Voidstone Gargoyle, and Linvala is already RFG. He also finds a Street Wraith, which, in conjunction with Adun, lets him dredge even more cards per turn. The game is basically over at this point. I fight back for several turns, with Knight of the Reliquary, Duplicant on Adun, and Squirrel Nest, but he's already found all the answers (Big Game Hunter and Acidic Slime). I'm not gaining any ground, and eventually have to concede.
Game 3:
This one's anticlimactic, after the rather intense previous game. I draw a hand with just a couple of Forests for mana, but containing Guilty Conscience and Worldly Tutor. I figure that my best chance in this miserable matchup is to go for the Stuffy Doll/Guilty Conscience combo, as it's basically already in hand and he seemed to have very few answers to it. I mull away my other three cards, and actually draw Stuffy Doll (along with a useless Squirrel Nest).
However, he has a rather amazing start (Dark Ritual into Phyrexian Arena, followed by Tarmogoyf, followed by Ancient Tomb, Umezawa's Jitte, equip), while I draw no lands and nothing I can cast. I try my best (tutoring for Bloom Tender, before Jitte makes an appearance and murders it), but there's nothing I can do.
Ah well. It was a great tournament, and I enjoyed playing all of my opponents. Sucks to lose in the finals, but I guess it's better than losing anywhere else. funlicker definitely deserved the win: his deck is awesome (and original), and very well situated to beat mine. I already got lucky to escape in the semifinals vs MCR; I'm quite satisfied to finish second.
Have you considered Stonehewer Giant over Steelshaper's Gift? Reusable effects are de rigueur in this format and he is himself fetchable with Survival/tutors.
I actually had not considered Stonehewer Giant. It may be worth testing, though I don't think it will replace Steelshaper's Gift or Stoneforge Mystic. The best part about the equipment tutors is that they can get you a quick Lightning Greaves to protect Teeg as soon as you play him. Stonehewer Giant can't really do that--by the time he's active, I've probably got protection already (also, if I don't have protection, he's fairly likely to die before becoming active). My gut feeling is that the Giant is probably too slow to be effective in this deck, but I may be wrong. He's certainly powerful once he gets rolling. I'll give him a shot, when I get the chance.
You'll note that every spell in this deck can be played through Gaddock Teeg. This is important. In many games, Teeg enters play very early in the game, and he never exits play. There is no reason to assume that your defenses will be breached, giving you an opening to cast 4+ cc spells--usually, they won't be. Don't play cards that will be dead when Teeg is in play, as they will dead in your hand more often than not.
Besides, I already have a Yosei lock with High Market, and I note that it's quite bad anyway. It's going to be a 3-card combo no matter what you do, so it's not worth focusing on.
Please read the whole post before suggesting things I've already addressed.
I really like the looks of this deck. Using Gaddock Teeg as a way to protect combos is an awesome idea, and you and Dosu deserve a lot of credit. I can tell that a lot of time and effort went into building this deck and as such I only have a few suggestions.
You mention that protecting Teeg is of vital importance, have you ever considered Steely Resolve as another peice of protection? It would cut off your opponent's ability to kill Teeg in response (to say equiping with Greaves or tapping Mother of Runes), and would not stifle any of the combos as far as I can tell.
Do you feel that Treetop Village may have a place in this deck? Maybe even Nantuko Monastery, although achieveing threshold might not be consistant enough to warrent Monastery. Considering you have so many creatures, and thus will be forceing through some damage manlands seem like a decent way to quicken the clock, and more realistically go aggro if the situation calls for it. Plus if your opponent is somehow able to resolve a sweeper you'll at least still be left with some board presence.
Is the damage from City of Brass too much since you expect the game to go so long that it's not worth the additional versatility?
Considering how rare removal is in these colors is Mouth of Ronam something you've considered? Particularly since you mention that creature decks can sometimes be problematic. Speaking of "removal" have you ever tested Prision Term or Arrest? Another card which could help you win creature wars is Ajani Goldmane, while also doubling as an alternate win condition if your opponent has no creatures on board. Wilt-Leaf Liege could also help you just aggro someone out and win creature wars.
How is your matchup against heavy counterspell generals? Have you ever considered more anti-control creatures such as Xantid Swarm or Gaea's Herald?
Finally, since I know you've worked extensively on both decks, could you tell me the advantages this deck has over Sisay? Considering you can tutor for Teeg with Sisay along with a whole host of other disruptive generals, what matchups do you feel that Teeg is better in and why should someone choose Teeg over Sisay?
Once again great work on the deck, look forward to your answers.
The main difference between Sisay and Teeg is that with Teeg, you will always have access to him and will almost always drop him on turn 2. With Sisay, you won't be getting Teeg out until turn 3 at the best (turn 2 Sisay w/ the best acceleration and then tutor on turn 3), and that's not always guaranteed given that Sisay is so fragile.
Teeg ruins so many decks and strategies, it isn't even funny. That's why I usually seem to be tutoring for Teeg first when I play my Sisay deck. Even tuned 1v1 EDH decks that have an overall mana curve lower than a typical multiplayer EDH deck will still fall victim from time to time to Teeg. The only decks that really circumvent him are the fast aggro decks or just decks that focus on pumping out creatures in general.
By being able to get the turn 2 Teeg, this really increases the chance of having him resolve and stick against a blue deck. Most blue decks don't like it when their 4+ mana countermagic is disabled, along with cards like FoF, Tezz, Jace 2.0, Force, and Time Stretch. Gaining virtual card advantage against THE color that is known for card advantage is a big plus.
Teeg also puts a major dent in combo decks by disabling many key combo engines, such as Ad Nauseam, Mind's Desire, Future Sight, Time Spiral, and kill cards like Tendrils.
Basically, you lose versatility and consistency that Sisay gives you, in exchange for playing one of the most disruptive cards in the format on turn 2.
Interesting ideas. I think you may be be overrating the aggro part of the deck though. Despite the 31 creatures, only about a third of them are actually capable of realistically getting damage through unaided, and that's being generous. This deck certainly can win through damage, but usually it happens through general damage (with equipment granting evasion) or against very creature-light decks, who simply don't have anything to block with. Most commonly, I'll attack a bit at the start, then my opponent plays bigger, meaner creatures. At that point, I usually just say "screw it," play and protect Peacekeeper, and win through a combo. It's easier than trying to win the damage race against something like Rafiq.
The aggro aspect is important, especially against control decks where it might be difficult to resolve a combo, but it's not something that should be really be focused on. This deck can be fairly glacial, but that's okay--when your opponent is paralyzed, it doesn't matter how fast you move. When aggro is going to get there, it will get there: it doesn't particularly matter if you have a 7 turn clock or a 10 clock clock. As such, cards that only increase the clock aren't really what we're looking for.
Steely Resolve: I have considered it, though I've never actually tested it in this deck. It's fairly awkward here, as Gaddock Teeg is the card that most frequently needs to be protected...but he is by no means the only one. I don't play any other creatures that share a type with him, which makes Steely Resolve limited in its use. I think it's approximately as useful overall as Aspect of Mongoose, which I used to play, but was never satisfied with. It's also worth noting that enchantments that grant shroud can be pretty annoying. While it won't prevent any combos, it does stop you from attaching equipment or saving with Saffi, both of which are important interactions.
I used to play Treetop Village, before Worldwake was released. Stirring Wildwood is almost strictly better here, and I really don't feel a need for 2 manlands (I barely want one--probably 3/4 times I activate Stirring Wildwood it's actually to block a flyer).
Nantuko Monastery doesn't seem worthwhile here because this deck is fairly hungry for colored mana (and again, has very limited use for manlands as it's not really interested in "quickening the clock"). You want to have access to both white and green from the very beginning of the game, and even later on can require large amounts of colored mana (lots of green for Survival of the Fittest, and you need double white pretty early too). I have 7 lands that don't produce colored mana right now (counting Krosan Verge), and I don't really want to go higher than that (I've run 9 before, and had some problems).
I'm not especially concerned about the damage from City of Brass, but I don't think this deck really needs another dualland. It would take away another basic, and with all these fetchlands, Land Tax, Tithe, Life from the Loam, Yavimaya Elder, Kodama's Reach, Knight of the Reliquary, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Yavimaya Dryad, Solemn Simulacrum, and so on it's not at all uncommon to run out of basic lands in the deck in the lategame. While this isn't a huge deal, it's still better to be able to find lands than not. I don't want to go lower than 10 basics (and I'd prefer 11-12).
I have played Mouth of Ronom before, and never got much use out of it. This deck isn't actually all that removal-light--it does have 10 cards that can kill/steal creatures. Considering that most creatures can be made irrelevant by Peacekeeper or Linvala, that's not bad. I found that I needed fewer colorless-producing lands, and judged Mouth of Ronom and Winding Canyons to be the least useful ones that I was playing.
I have considered both Prison Term and Arrest. If I wanted more removal, Arrest would probably be the next card I would add. I've been satisfied with the removal count and with just 1 enchantment removal spell though, and I much prefer Lignify to Arrest.
Ajani Goldmane is a 4cc non-creature, which is a big no-no. Even if he cost 3 though, I don't think he fits this deck's plan at all. Wilt-Leaf Liege is similarly unnecessary, though it's not a bad card--I just don't feel that it adds much to the deck. I'm pretty sure that most any game I win with the boost from Wilt-Leaf Liege would be just about as winnable without it.
I've never really thought about anti-counterspell creatures (though they could fit well in here) because I haven't had any issues beating blue decks (though I don't remember ever playing Clique with this deck, and I don't intend to). It sounds silly, but I just kind of...play cards against them, and that seems to work fine. There are enough creatures that at least a few of them are going to resolve...which ones doesn't even matter that much, as they all apply some sort of pressure against blue. Teeg goes a long way against these decks: though he doesn't actually shut them down, he makes their job a lot harder, rendering perhaps 20% of their more powerful spells useless and significantly reducing the "answer density" of these decks. Just playing out creatures, turning them sideways, and blowing up important artifacts tends to be enough. If I get a chance, I try to resolve Stoneforge Mystic and use it to tutor/put into play Sword of Fire and Ice, which has yet to fail me against blue. That's not even necessary though.
Quote from Surging Chaos »
The only decks that really circumvent him are the fast aggro decks or just decks that focus on pumping out creatures in general.
That's why Peacekeeper is basically the second general for this deck. Against the decks where Teeg is weak, Peacekeeper is extremely strong, and replaces him as the most important creature to protect. Between Teeg, Peacekeeper, and Linvala, there's almost nothing that gets through.
Teeg vs. Sisay is an interesting decision. Surging Chaos is correct on all points, but there's a little more to it than that. Teeg is probably the single most important card in the Sisay deck, so having early and even more consistent access to him is valuable. It's also important to note that Teeg is far more resilient when played as a general--it's not uncommon to have Teeg killed once or twice, but he's very easy to replay. In Sisay, if Teeg gets killed once, chances are fairly good that he's gone for the entire game, as the legendary recursion options in G/W kind of suck.
This deck also gets to play better cards than Sisay, as it's not trying to flesh out a legendary toolbox to enable the general. Sisay winds up playing some weird and somewhat suboptimal cards like Glissa Sunseeker, Arashi, the Sky Asunder, and Tolsimir Wolfblood because it pretty much has to. Also, the combos in Sisay tend to be more costly and unwieldy, because of all the legendary components. Furthermore, since Sisay costs twice as much and the deck doesn't get rolling until she can be activated, the deck needs to play a whole lot of cheap acceleration, which decreases threat density quite a bit. With a Gaddock Teeg deck, you can just play only the best cards, and the most efficient combos, and have a more high-powered deck overall.
This is not to say that Gaddock Teeg is necessarily a better general--Sisay certainly wins faster, and it's more consistent (in the sense that you can make most games play out similarly). Sisay is also more versatile--once it gets going, it's better at finding answers to specific problems. In fact, Sisay was actually one of the most difficult matchups for Gaddock Teeg, as both Teeg and Peacekeeper are relatively ineffective against her.
However, Sisay does have one final weakness compared to Teeg, which is that she's much more vulnerable to certain kinds of hate. There really aren't a lot of cards that bother Teeg. The most annoying is probably Oblivion Stone (which is actually an even worse problem for Sisay). In contrast, Sisay is very weak against both creature theft and Pithing Needle-type effects, and is moderately weak to both spot and mass removal. These weaknesses are exacerbated by the printing of Linvala, Keeper of Silence, which is probably the best Sisay hate card ever printed (though she's good in Sisay as well). The addition of Linvala to Gaddock Teeg shored up the deck's weaknesses considerably, and turned the matchup against Sisay from unfavorable to quite good.
When I have a choice, I prefer to go with the more resilient deck that has at least a decent shot against anything, rather than an all-in deck that wins most matches but struggles against certain strategies. I'm exaggerating both decks in this example (Teeg is very powerful too, and has great matchups against many decks, while Sisay is not entirely all-in on Sisay), but I do feel like Gaddock Teeg is a stronger choice, at least for me. Because it plays such a variety of answers and often makes for quite long games, almost every game gives you multiple opportunities to outplay opponents. There is a card in here to blank just about any gameplan.
This isn't the deck that gets shut down by certain cards--it's the deck that shuts other decks down.
I've been secretly playing this deck, and it's a ton of fun to play. I only wish Sisay had this sort of threat density and didn't die immediately every single time I cast her on turn 3 or even turn 2 with acceleration.
I played against Evergreen's Iname deck, and it has come to my attention that the deck could use more efficient graveyard hate. Not just for the Iname matchup, but against generals like Sharuum, Xiahou Dun, and any deck that has a tendency to use Academy Ruins, Volrath's Stronghold, Reveillark, or pretty much any other graveyard interactions. As much as I love Stonecloaker, it is just not that great as a real graveyard hoser tool. I am considering Loaming Shaman, considering I play him in my Sisay deck too and cutting Heartbeat of Spring for it should I not turn Stonecloaker loose (since he does serve other purposes). I just really can't find any real use for Heartbeat.
Im not a huge fan of Path to Exie in this format, but given this:
The most unusual cards in this deck are probably Rites of Flourishing and Heartbeat of Spring. You have to be careful with these symmetrical effects, but the idea is that Teeg and friends can usually prevent your opponent from playing what they want to, so your opponent probably won't get much use out of these. You, however, can take full advantage of them, and these effects usually hasten your victory. I've been playing with them for a long time, and I've been satisfied with them.
I don't think I see the need for more graveyard hate. Recursion just isn't that huge a deal most of the time in 1v1, and I've found Stonecloaker to be sufficient when I do need to handle something.
The whole point of this deck is to lock an opponent out of playing useful spells--whether it's coming from their hand or their graveyard doesn't make much difference. I've never had any degree of difficulty against Academy Ruins and the like, because there isn't much that scares me out of the graveyard.
Let's look at Iname, which is probably the most competitive deck that uses the graveyard. I haven't actually played this deck against Iname, but I do know how the deck works well enough to theorycraft the matchup. Much relies on being able to play Teeg and protect him, but that's what this deck is designed to do above all else. Iname only has one spell that can deal with a shrouded Teeg (Oblivion Stone). Teeg only shuts off 12 cards in that deck, but they're good ones, including 3/4 mass reanimation effects, Damnation, and 2 of the spot removal spells. If we can stick Teeg, Balthor the Defiled is the only way for Iname to go off. Linvala can shut him off (as well as the spirit army...if we have Linvala and Peacekeeper, it doesn't matter if the army gets reanimated). Aven Mindcensor is also fantastic in this matchup, largely because of how difficult he makes it to find Oblivion Stone.
The only other graveyard use in this deck involves Bloodghast/Skullclamp abuse. This is powerful, but is really better answered by artifact removal anyway.
I'm sure that Iname is a somewhat difficult matchup, but I'm not convinced that adding graveyard hate is going to help any. I doubt you can catch Iname with Loaming Shaman at the crucial moment 1 in 20 games. He's prepared for that. We do have the tools to proactively shut down Iname's gameplan. We're better off winning on our terms, by invalidating his win-conditions, than trying to disrupt him at his own game. The hardest thing about this matchup is not the use of the graveyard, but the threat of Oblivion Stone--if you're trying to shore up this matchup, I'd play stuff like Pithing Needle or Voidstone Gargoyle before anything else.
The same holds true for just about every other situation involving graveyard recursion as well. When you really do need to remove something, it's usually just one or two cards, and I've found Stonecloaker to be enough every time.
Quote from Surging Chaos »
I just really can't find any real use for Heartbeat.
Heartbeat of Spring seems like one of the weaker cards in the deck, but I have a hard time cutting it. It's not good in every situation--but every time I decide to keep an eye on it in a match, it blows me away with how good it is. The proper time to play it is just after you've set up a strong board position, frequently with Teeg, Peacekeeper, and something that can protect them a bit. At this point, your opponent is scrambling for specific answers, not extra mana, so they rarely cast anything relevant with it. You can get a huge benefit out of it though. I usually play it with 5-6 lands in play--with Peacekeeper eating up 2 mana per turn, that doesn't leave me a lot to work with. When I DON'T have Heartbeat, it frequently takes me a long, long time to win, and sometimes an opponent can find a suitable answer in that time. When I do have Heartbeat, I almost always win very quickly, as I can just dump my hand and find everything necessary.
Now, the games I win with Heartbeat, would I have been able to win without it? Most of the time, probably so, and that's the number 1 reason it might be worth cutting. It definitely does make me win much faster though, and that's got to count for something. I've yet to lose a game to Heartbeat, so I think it's pulling its weight for now.
I don't think Path to Exile is a great fit though. Heartbeat of Spring is good because I play it at a very specific time, when the drawback is unlikely to help my opponent much. With Path to Exile, while it solves a problem, it's the kind of card you want to play before you've achieved that lockdown--and at that point, the drawback can still help your opponent very much. I don't think I need more removal, and if I did, there are other spells I'd play before this.
I played a Teeg deck on MWS the other day using Azami, and the opponent quit because I doubled a Time Stretch and was "Taking too long" to take my turns.
A problem I've noticed the deck (Teeg) has is resolved board wipe. A recurring Inundate ruins people, and a more permanent solution such as DoJ or *** seems just as bad. It could also be that my Opponent was playing an inferior list, but Teeg was his general, and I saw some of the cards in your list.
I don't understand. The whole point of Gaddock Teeg is that he stops you from playing certain spells...in a list like mine, it's improbable that you'd ever be able to play Time Stretch in the first place.
Your discussion of "problem cards" makes me wonder whether you know what Teeg does, or if perhaps you have him confused with a different general. Stuff like Inundate, Wrath of God, and Day of Judgment are not problems at all, precisely because Teeg is the general.
Just a note, it doesn't seem like there's a single thing your deck can do against Pernicious Deed with mana open when cast. It sneaks in under Teeg, blows your whole board for maybe three or four more mana right then and there. Also, a cycled Decree of Pain wipes out Teeg and every creature on your "annoying" list except Linvala and Platinum. I may be missing something, but what's your recovery plan, should someone blast through your defenses?
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Pernicious Deed and Decree of Pain fall under the same general category as Oblivion Stone, but are much less commonly played. Yes, they get around Teeg, but it's not like a single resolved sweeper destroys the deck--you just rebuild and move on.
I've had Oblivion Stone played against me about 6 times (in over 50 games), and I think I still won all but one of those games (while it's annoying, it's not like it leaves your opponent in a better position, and you can recover very quickly with stuff like Saffi in play). I've had Pernicious Deed played against me only once (won that game a couple turns later with a Stuffy Doll/Guilty Conscience combo I had been setting up). I've never had Decree of Pain played against me, but it wouldn't be that bad either.
The deck is designed to prevent sweepers from being cast, but it's not like it folds if one slips through.
I don't think I'm entirely sold on Snake Umbra over Aspect of Mongoose. I agree that auras should generally be avoided due to the potential card disadvantage they cause, but this almost never happens with Aspect of Mongoose -- if they can 2-for-1 you as you're playing the enchantment, they would have probably taken the opportunity to kill Teeg already, right? Although you mentioned you play Snake Umbra on fliers and stuff for the most part, I've always found that protecting Teeg is of vital importance, and AoM is just more effective to that end.
You play enough creatures that Edicts shouldn't pose much of a threat to Teeg, and while Snake Umbra DOES protect you from Vendetta-type effects, it won't do anything against things like bounce, Swords to Plowshares, Duplicant, or (heaven forbid) Oblation -- these are most of the common "outs" other decks have at their disposal.
I know your deck is a well-oiled machine and is a lot different from mine (which is tuned for multiplayer), but I just want to get your input on this. Cool deck! I really appreciate the credit you've given me, even though your list is an entirely different animal now.
I don't understand. The whole point of Gaddock Teeg is that he stops you from playing certain spells...in a list like mine, it's improbable that you'd ever be able to play Time Stretch in the first place.
Your discussion of "problem cards" makes me wonder whether you know what Teeg does, or if perhaps you have him confused with a different general. Stuff like Inundate, Wrath of God, and Day of Judgment are not problems at all, precisely because Teeg is the general.
Resolved bounce, ala Capsize, Boomerang, etc. to be rid of him. After that is when I resolved Time Stretch/Inundate.
This is a solid deck lots of testing has gone into this. My only questions is why do you run cards such as sakura-tribe elder, Yavimaya elder and friends? What are you accelerating into. I have limited experience in the deck, but honestly are these guys persuado land drops that can carry equipment. You have enough guys for survival, and these creatures just seem irrelevant.
Am I dead wrong on this?
Other then that I really despise the bounceland being in the deck, but with your opponents higher spells locked down really they have nothing better to do but blow this up with their waste effect.
Finally if the g/w manland has been nice maybe it's time to incorporate Treetop Village. Sure its not a dual land, but it does have it's benefits.
Snake Umbra isn't a totally essential card, but I greatly prefer it to Aspect of Mongoose. AoM ends up being a lot more awkward than you might expect in a deck with this many protection mechanisms. It's also made almost completely redundant by Sylvan Safekeeper, a common tutor target. The biggest issue with AoM, however, is that it can actually block your protection late-game. Imagine a board position including Gaddock Teeg (with AoM), Sylvan Safekeeper, and Saffi Eriksdotter/Adarkar Valkyrie/Mother of Runes. Teeg seems pretty safe...but if you happen to get hit by one of the few sweepers that can get through, like Oblivion Stone or Pyroclasm, AoM actually prevents you from being able to keep Teeg in play. This situation came up quite a few times, and makes me not want to play AoM at all. (Canopy Cover would actually be better, but I don't really want to play that either.)
Snake Umbra is just a more versatile aura. It stops a different type of removal--though it's vulnerable to bounce or STP, it's actually effective against the aforementioned sweepers. It also results in increasing card advantage as long as it remains it play, making it easier to justify playing it early rather than developing your board position. Overall, I consider it to be roughly as effective at protection as AoM (stops slightly less removal overall, but never stops Saffi), and it has a much better secondary effect. It could probably be cut for something else, but it wouldn't be AoM.
It is quite unlikely that you will be able to resolve bounce against me by the time you have enough mana for Inundate or Time Stretch. I have 6 cheap cards that make Teeg untargetable by bounce, and I tutor for them aggressively. He's typically shrouded or pro-blue by turn 4 or 5.
Sakura-Tribe Elder, Yavimaya Elder, and friends:
This is a good question. It's true that I'm not really ramping into many big spells, but this is still quite a mana-hungry deck. I don't want to cast expensive spells, but I do usually want to be paying for multiple spells and/or equip costs per turn. Up until about 8 mana (which usually doesn't happen without Heartbeat of Spring), I can pretty much always efficiently use all of my mana every turn. Even with Heartbeat, I can frequently spend 10 or more mana per turn.
The mana accelerators just get you rolling faster, and significantly reduce the chance of losing to manascrew. Since I can effectively use the extra mana, they more than pay for themselves in terms of tempo within a couple of turns. I haven't actually tried cutting them, but I would not want to: I'm always happy to draw them. They keep things running smoothly.
Selesnya Sanctuary:
This is an important card in this deck. It helps to enable Weathered Wayfarer and Land Tax, both of which are incredibly strong if they get going.
Even without these cards, Selesnya Sanctuary is still never bad if played properly. If you have other lands to play, then you just play SS late, around turn 5 or 6. At this point, any LD in hand has probably been used, and even if it does get destroyed it's not a big deal. If you DON'T have other lands to play, then you have to play it early, but it's essentially 2 lands. It's actually a very good card if you're light on lands. Yeah, it sucks if it gets destroyed in this case, but it's still only a tempo loss. You'd have been in just about as bad a state if you didn't have it. Just don't play it early if you can avoid it, and it's fine.
Treetop Village vs Stirring Wildwood:
I mentioned this somewhere else in the thread, but I basically never attack with Stirring Wildwood. 90% of the time, it's just a Elfhame Palace, which is fine. The other 10% of the time, I use it to block flyers (or deter flyers from attacking). Treetop Village can't fix mana, and it can't block flyers. It pretty much just attacks, and that's not something I'm interested in.
It is quite unlikely that you will be able to resolve bounce against me by the time you have enough mana for Inundate or Time Stretch. I have 6 cheap cards that make Teeg untargetable by bounce, and I tutor for them aggressively. He's typically shrouded or pro-blue by turn 4 or 5.
I'm not saying you specifically, I'm just posting what happened.
Khymera, have you updated your list since the new bannings? Library of Alexandria is banned, and I was wondering since m11 is out have you made any changes?
I have indeed updated my list significantly since M11, with ~15 changes (though I don't believe Library of Alexandra has been banned). I'm very happy with my current list--it's gone almost undefeated in testing, and I have lots of fun playing it.
I have some surprises I'm saving for the tournament, so I won't be updating my list yet. When the tournament concludes, I'll update the list, discuss all my choices, and provide a tournament report if I do well.
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Without further ado, here is my tournament list:
1 Gaddock Teeg
Lands:
5 Plains
5 Forest
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Flooded Strand
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Selesnya Sanctuary
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Brushland
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Dust Bowl
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Kor Haven
1 High Market
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Weathered Wayfarer
1 Bloom Tender
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Peacekeeper
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Preacher
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Eternal Witness
1 Mirror Entity
1 Stonecloaker
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Reveillark
1 Karmic Guide
1 Stuffy Doll
1 Voidstone Gargoyle
1 Archon of Justice
1 Acidic Slime
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Sun Titan
1 Primeval Titan
1 Adarkar Valkyrie
1 Duplicant
Artifacts:
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Pithing Needle
1 Scroll Rack
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Enchantments:
1 Land Tax
1 Guilty Conscience
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sterling Grove
1 Lignify
1 Earthcraft
1 Squirrel Nest
1 Arrest
1 Aura Shards
Sorceries:
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Life from the Loam
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Cultivate
1 Idyllic Tutor
Instants:
1 Tithe
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Shelter
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Oblation
1 Krosan Grip
Changes from previous version:
-Krosan Verge
-Tajuru Preserver
-True Believer
-Yavimaya Dryad
-Solemn Simulacrum
-Willow Satyr
-Genesis
-Sword of Light and Shadow
-Aura of Silence
-Snake Umbra
-Rites of Flourishing
-Heartbeat of Spring
-Condemn
+Razorverge Thicket
+Bloom Tender
+Fauna Shaman
+Dauntless Escort
+Harmonic Sliver
+Voidstone Gargoyle
+Sun Titan
+Primeval Titan
+Pithing Needle
+Arrest
+Cultivate
+Shelter
+Sword of Feast and Famine
Mini-primer (original OP):
The basic idea of this deck is to use Gaddock Teeg to slow down your opponent long enough to eventually win through an infinite combo. Gaddock Teeg is extremely powerful against many of the control and combo decks that are so popular in this format--certain decks can't even realistically win with him in play.
Gaddock Teeg is great against many decks--but only so long as he stays in play. As such, we want to focus as much as possible on cards that help prevent him from dying. Shroud is probably the most important consideration, as most mass removal spells cannot be played through Teeg.
Teeg is great against many decks--but not against all. Some decks, most notably decks that are very creature heavy, can essentially ignore him. For these situations, we can take advantage of all the protective spells we have and run other powerful (but fragile) creatures, and rely on those to lock an opponent down.
The subtitle for this thread comes from all the many games I've played where I have yet to find a win condition, but have still managed to construct an essentially unbeatable board position. Even something as simple as Gaddock Teeg, Sylvan Safekeeper, and Platinum Angel or Peacekeeper is literally unbeatable for many decks.
These are the cornerstones of the deck:
1) combo
2) annoying creatures
3) protection for those creatures
Those are the important things. We also play some removal, acceleration, and tutors to make everything run smoothly, but those cornerstones are what make the deck.
You'll note that every spell in this deck can be played through Gaddock Teeg. This is important. In many games, Teeg enters play very early in the game, and he never exits play. There is no reason to assume that your defenses will be breached, giving you an opening to cast 4+ cc spells--usually, they won't be. Don't play cards that will be dead when Teeg is in play, as they will dead in your hand more often than not.
COMBO:
We have 3 combos in this deck, all very capable of winning the game.
1) Earthcraft + Squirrel Nest
Infinite squirrels. 'Nuff said. The only card we play that interferes with this win is Peacekeeper, who fortunately offs herself when necessary.
2) Stuffy Doll + Guilty Conscience
Infinite damage. Very simple.
3) Survival of the Fittest.
Technically not the combo, but this is the only way the combo is ever assembled (and the only card you need). The actual combo is Reveillark + Karmic Guide + Mirror Entity, along with either Saffi Eriksdotter + Yosei, the Morning Star or just Acidic Slime. Dump stuff in the graveyard, evoke Reveillark, recurring Mirror Entity and Karmic Guide (targeting Reveillark). Stack a hundred or so Entity activations for 0. Recur Karmic Guide + Saffi, sac Saffi targeting Reveillark, Next time use Karmic Guide to recur Yosei. Repeat, to tap all your opponents permanents and make them skip an arbitrarily large number of untap steps.
3.5) Yosei, the Morning Star + Adarkar Valkyrie/Genesis + High Market.
I hardly want to include this one, as it's unwieldy and rarely happens, but you can potentially win this way, so you should be aware of it.
ANNOYING CREATURES:
Peacekeeper:
Undoubtedly the most important, next to Mr. Teeg. Teeg is weakest against creature-based decks, which is where Peacekeeper shines. Many decks have an extremely difficult time winning if you can find Peacekeeper and protect her.
Linvala, Keeper of Silence:
A new addition, but a spectacular one. Linvala is excellent at shutting down many popular generals and utility creatures, from Captain Sisay to Jhoira to Oona to Rofellos. She's also great against creatures that work as repeatable removal, like Tradewind Rider, Sparksmith, or Kiku, Night's Flower--this kind of card used to be a significant problem for this deck, but no longer.
Platinum Angel:
Expensive, but you can't lose. You can't lose. What more could you want? Usually Platinum Angel isn't very good in EDH because most decks can't adequately protect it, but this deck is better at protecting creatures than any other deck in the format. It is not particularly difficult to make Platinum Angel invincible in this deck.
Aven Mindcensor:
People love their tutors. When opponents do have some kind of out to your board position, they usually don't have more than one or two. Mindcensor helps keep your opponent from finding it, and is just sort of generally great against all kinds of combo decks, black decks, and Sisay/Lin-Sivvi decks.
Preacher:
Very solid against most decks, so long as they don't have huge swarms of tokens. It's also excellent with sacrifice outlets, giving you removal every turn.
Protection for Annoying Creatures:
Mother of Runes:
Fantastic early game drop, blanking most kinds of spot removal.
Sylvan Safekeeper:
Not very good early game, though it can be useful, but ridiculously powerful late-game, providing shroud to any of your creatures when needed.
Saffi Eriksdotter:
Not only (or even primarily) a combo piece, she's great at taking one for the team.
Lightning Greaves:
Obviously great here. We also have a couple of equipment-tutors to help find it.
Sword of Fire and Ice:
Protection from blue and red is frequently useful. This equipment also provides an important alternate win-condition, particularly against creature-light decks. I've won many games by just giving Teeg a Sword and beating for 21. Sniping creatures and drawing cards makes this Sword effective even if you're not winning through damage, and even if the protections aren't relevant. I no longer run Sword of Light and Shadow, as it just wasn't efficient enough for the cost and the triggered abilities are much weaker.
Stonecloaker:
Not ideal, as it tends to give your opponent a little window, but at least it saves a creature (obviously doubles as graveyard hate as well).
Adarkar Valkyrie:
Fairly slow, but very versatile, and beats in the air.
OTHER:
Most of the tutors, removal, and acceleration should be self-explanatory. So are the combo pieces: they're for winning the game.
Tournament Report!:
Round 1, vs -Vengeance- (Wydwen, the Biting Gale)
I'll note that I had been awake for about 24 hours when playing this match, so my notes are a little sketchy and I made some embarrassing play mistakes.)
Game 1:
I forgot to record my starting hand this game, but did so in subsequent matches.
I start strong with Mother of Runes, but my turn 2 Teeg gets Force of Willed, and he Vampiric Tutors for something. I have Lightning Greaves on turn 3, which he thinks about and allows. I resolve Teeg and equip Lightning Greaves the following turn, with him not really doing much. My Linvala gets Forbidden (with buyback), and so does Dauntless Escort the next turn (without buyback this time). I resolve Idyllic Tutor for Sylvan Library (I thought about getting Survival of the Fittest, but didn't have any creatures left in hand and just wanted more cards).
The next turn I resolve the Library, and make my biggest mistake of the tournament. Not having seen Wydwen played yet, I just kind of...forgot about her, and attacked with Teeg into 4 untapped lands. Of course, he flashes in Wydwen to block, and I can't even save him with Mother of Runes because of the Greaves. Slightly tilted, I then make another mistake, playing Aven Mindcensor and equipping Greaves (I should have equipped Mother of Runes, so I could protect the Aven with her). I pay for it next turn when he plays and equips Umezawa's Jitte and attacks, because now I can't block with a pro-black Aven. Oh well.
The next turn I draw 3 cards off Library, one of which is fortunately my own Jitte. I play it to blow up his (losing Mother of Runes, but not the shrouded Aven), and play Gaea's Cradle into Archon of Justice, which gets Miscalculation'd. I replay Teeg the next turn, meeting Cryptic Command. The following turn I finally resolve Teeg again, and murder his Jace Beleren with my Aven (he's trying to race with Wydwen + my Sylvan Library, but isn't making much progress).
Next turn, my Sun Titan is Remanded, and my Reveillark meets Pact of Negation. Incidentally, I realize at this point that I've been tapping my turn 3 Selesnya Sanctuary for 1 mana almost the entire game...oops. Sleep is good, kids. Anyway, it doesn't matter, as Sun Titan resolves the next turn, recurring my Jitte. I equip it with Jitte and Greaves, and attack, recurring Dauntless Escort. He draws, shows me a doubly blocked Damnation (Teeg/Escort), and concedes.
Game 2:
I mull into a slow, but passable hand with 3 lands, Strip Mine, Stonecloaker, and Primeval Titan.
I Strip his opening Island, which leaves him stuck on 1 land for 1 turn, but then he hits a streak of lands and gets out of it. My Teeg gets hit by Innocent Blood, but Yavimaya Elder sticks, and then Teeg again the turn after. I find Sterling Grove, which I break at his eot for Survival of the Fittest. He cycles Misdirection in response to my Survival, but doesn't find a real counter. I ditch Stonecloaker to find Knight of the Reliquary, and play it, but he grabs it with Sower of Temptation. To get rid of it, I ditch Reveillark for Stoneforge Mystic, get Jitte, play and equip it to Yavimaya Elder. He blocks with the Knight, and I kill the Sower with the Jitte.
Next turn, he has Phyrexian Arena and his own Jitte. Out of creatures I want to discard, I break a Horizon Canopy to try to find one, but whiff. I wind up having to ditch the Primeval Titan to get the much better Sun Titan, which resolves and recurs Stonecloaker, which RFGs something irrelevant and bounces my Stoneforge Mystic (I should definitely have just gotten Strip Mine back instead, but I failed to notice it in my graveyard). I still grab a Wasteland with KotR though. On his turn, he Bojuka Bogs me, which is sad, and Gilded Drakes my Titan, which is even worse. I have to Swords to Plowshares the Titan, but then I replay the Mystic, get Sword of Fire and Ice, use KotR to get Gaea's Cradle, and use the mana to play Lightning Greaves, equip the Mystic, and put the Sword into play for 1W (he spins his SDT in response, presumably looking for Stifle and not finding it). I suit Teeg up with everything, and smash him down to 6 life. He Impulses for an answer on his turn, doesn't find one, and concedes.
I find that this kind of win is typical against blue based decks--they can stop a whole bunch of random things, but they don't have enough answers to deal with everything, so I just slowly build up an army and grind them down. I find that I rarely go for any of the combos against blue decks, because just gaining incremental advantages and smashing in the red zone is safer and works fine. If I went for a combo, knocking out one key piece could stop my plans...but when I'm just playing good cards and getting in hits, there are too many threats for them to handle.
Match 2, vs Hephlathio with Wort, the Raidmother
Game 1:
This game is so sad. I have mull my whole hand twice to find any lands at all, and wind up having to go with a hand of Wooded Foothills, Tithe, Steelshaper's Gift, Knight of the Reliquary, and Mirror Entity. Pretty bad on the play, but it could get there.
Only...I get destroyed by land destruction. I Gift for Sword of Fire and Ice on my first turn, because I need to get full value out of Tithe, and end up not playing anything on turn 2. Unfortunately, his turn 1 Arbor Elf gets him a turn 2 Ice Storm, so I have to Tithe for Temple Garden in response. I do draw a few lands after that, but he has land destruction for all of them, so I never manage to reach 2 lands. He follows up the Ice Storm with Winter's Grasp, Strip Mine, Wort, Fallow Earth, entwined and copied Reap and Sow, and Regal Force, before I die to tokens and such.
Game 2:
This is more like it. I mull into an interesting hand with 3 lands, Steelshaper's Gift, Land Tax, and Scroll Rack (I actually got Land Tax AND Scroll Rack off my mull.)
I don't even have to slow-roll a land, as he turns on my turn 1 Land Tax with Fastbond into Llanowar Elves. I use the Tax on turn 2 and play Teeg. He Gambles for something with 2 cards in hand and discards Imperial Recruiter, so he probably got lucky. On my turn 3, I use the Tax again, play Scroll Rack and rack away 9 cards. Disgusted by Teeg and my ridiculous card advantage engine, he concedes.
Game 3:
This match was epic. Unfortunately, my starting hand is miserable, as I once again draw Tithe and 6 other spells. I keep Tithe and mull the rest...5 more spells. I mull the 5 spells, and get...4 lands. Great. Tithe and 4 lands it is.
He starts with Llanowar Elves into Sylvan Library, and I'm lucky enough to topdeck a Sylvan Library of my own. He draws 3 cards, and plays Imperial Recruiter for Siege-Gang Commander, my nemesis. I draw 2 cards, play and pop a fetchland, and play Teeg. (I should have Wastelanded his Taiga, instead of playing the fetchland, but I was distracted by writing notes and didn't notice.) He draws 1 card, plays Birds of Paradise, and Gambles, discarding Saproling Symbiosis (so he must have gotten what he wanted). I draw 2 cards, and play Earthcraft, Fauna Shaman, and Lightning Greaves, suiting up Teeg. On his turn, he draws 2 cards, plays SGC, and shoots my Shaman with a goblin. I draw and play Stuffy Doll. I needed some blockers, and didn't have anything else to play.
He Worldly Tutors in upkeep for Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, draws 2 cards, plays Kiki-Jiki, and passes without attacking. I draw Steelshaper's Gift, get Sword of Fire and Ice, play it, and have to equip it to the Doll, which is pretty awkward. I attack with the 2/3 Doll, and since all his green creatures are tapped, it gets through, killing Kiki-Jiki. He copies SGC for a few extra goblins in response, and shoots me for 2 at eot (down to 15). On his turn he attacks with 7 1/1s (Llanowar Elves, Imperial Recruiter, and 5 Goblins). I block and kill the Llanowar Elves (mistake, should have killed the Recruiter), dropping to 9. He has 8 mana untapped, so he could bring me to 1 with SGC, but can't quite kill me. Instead, he decides to Regrowth and replay Kiki-Jiki. I draw 1 (clearly can't take any more damage), and Duplicant the SGC. He's tapped down, so he can't stop me from RFGing it (though he does make a copy for 3 more goblins). This is probably the most crucial play of the game.
On his turn, he copies the Imperial Recruiter (which I could easily have blocked and killed, but didn't), and gets Acidic Slime, killing Duplicant (I untap a land with Earthcraft in response, giving me enough mana to use my Kor Haven). He attacks with all his little tokens, dropping me to 3.
I draw and think for a while. I know I need Peacekeeper or I'm just dead on his turn, and at first I don't think I can get it. However, I eventually realize that I can use this Karmic Guide I've been holding for a while to reanimate Fauna Shaman, equip the Shaman with Lightning Greaves, and discard the Aven Mindcensor I've also been holding to get Peacekeeper! Awesome! So I do that and play Peacekeeper, and use my last 2 mana to equip her with Sword of Fire and Ice and Lightning Greaves. I'm definitely all-in on Peacekeeper surviving.
He plays Skullclamp (uh oh) and starts going nuclear. Copies Imperial Recruiter, gets Eternal Witness, clamps 4 tokens, Fastbond, dumps extra lands, Wort.
I manage to find a creature (Sylvan Safekeeper) in my top 3, which I discard to get Platinum Angel, and equip it with Greaves. I'm just trying to cover my bases in becoming unkillable at this point. I'm a little worried about artifact removal, which I'm sure he has, but I don't have any better targets: it's a bit too late for Linvala to be good. It's possible I should have just played the Safekeeper and made my creatures impervious to spot removal, but I was concerned that he might have a way to win without removing Peacekeeper or Gaddock Teeg.
He goes nuts on his next turn...clamps 4 tokens, Deranged Hermit, clamps 2 more tokens, conspires a Sylvan Scrying for Gaea's Cradle and Deserted Temple, Fastbonds a bunch of lands into play, Avenger of Zendikar, untaps Cradle with Deserted Temple, makes 40 mana, plays Earthcraft, copies Avenger of Zendikar and has basically unlimited mana and tokens. He clamps like 20 tokens and draws his entire deck, conspires an Artifact Mutation on my protective equipment, plays Ashnod's Altar...and then thinks for a long time and concedes, realizing that he simply can't win through my creatures. It's games like this that gave my deck its name. Can you even win? No, no you can't.
Match 3, vs Killkeny with Rakdos the Defiler
I may have been overconfident going into this match. I felt very favored here, as Teeg was extremely strong against his list.
Game 1:
This game went just like I expected. I kept a hand with 4 lands (including High Market), Preacher, Knight of the Reliquary, and Krosan Grip.
He has a lot of fast mana (Mana Vault, Grim Monolith) and a Grim Tutor, but seems light on action. I curve Teeg into Knight of the Reliquary into Preacher + High Market. After padding the lands in my graveyard by getting Strip Mine with KotR, I start bashing for 8 a turn. He's unable to play Rakdos (or any other creatures) because of my Preacher. When I decide to KotR up Wasteland, he does Terminate Teeg in response, but I just replay him, and he dies shortly after.
Game 2:
I think I got horribly unlucky to lose this one. I kept a strong hand with Plains, Wooded Bastion, Kor Haven, Qasali Pridemage, Krosan Grip, Sword of Fire and Ice, and Rebuff the Wicked.
However, he's on the play, and his turn 2 Hymn to Tourach hits the Squirrel Nest I drew...and the Wooded Bastion (I had played the Plains first to avoid Wasteland). There goes my only source of green mana. I draw Gaea's Cradle the next turn, which isn't exactly what I needed, and then fail to draw another green source or cheap white creature for the next 7 turns, after which Rakdos eats my face.
Game 3:
This one was more interesting. I mull into a hand with 3 lands, Tithe, Scroll Rack, and Harmonic Sliver, which seems okay.
My turn 2 Teeg is unfortunately sniped by a Mana Vault-fueled Flametongue Kavu, which starts beating me down. He also Imperial Recruiters for Bone Shredder the following turn, which makes me paranoid and probably makes me misplay. I start Scroll Racking for 4-5 per turn, but am not really finding anything to stop the Bone Shredder, though I do get Survival of the Fittest, which I use to get Yavimaya Elder, which trades with the Kavu beating me down and refills my hand. He's just playing accelerators and Lightning Greaves during this time.
There comes a crucial turn for me where it's clear that he could be attacking with a hasted, shrouded Rakdos on his next turn. I'm still trying to find a way to stop my key creatures dying from that stupid Bone Shredder, so I Rack for 5...and wind up with 2 lands, Tithe, Guilty Conscience and Sylvan Library. Awkward. In retrospect, I should have just used to Survival to find Peacekeeper. It would have died, but it would have prevented the Rakdos attack for another turn, which might give me time to find Karmic Guide or Swords to Plowshares or something. Instead, I'm forced to play Sylvan Library and pass.
As expected, Rakdos smashes in, nuking both our boards a bit. I'm in a tough spot, because an unprotected Peacekeeper won't cut it anymore, and I can't kill Rakdos with shroud. I wind up tutoring for a Harmonic Sliver to destroy the Greaves (Sliver over Pridemage, so I have another permanent to sacrifice), and put Guilty Conscience on Rakdos. Sucks to have to take another attack, but at least he won't be able to replay it...Undeterred, Killkeny plays Vampiric Tutor, Solemn Simulacrum, and attacks, leaving us both with nothing but 2 lands in play (I realized after the game that I could have saved another permanent if I sacrificed the Guilty Conscience, but I missed it during the game).
At this point, we're basically just in a topdeck war, as we each have nothing in play and nothing in hand. We both draw quite well, hitting a bunch of lands. Unfortunately, I then continue to draw lands and irrelevant cards like Earthcraft, while he's drawing creatures and removal. I eventually find Dauntless Escort, which finally draws out that Bone Shredder. Teeg gets killed by a Smallpox that puts me to 1, and I'm just about dead. There's a point where I almost stabilize, as he has nothing but Goblin Settler and lands in play and nothing in hand, and I found a Sakura-Tribe Elder to block (with 5 lands in play and Sun Titan in hand)...but then he topdecks Recurring Nightmare, and it's all over.
Round 4, vs MCR (Teysa, Orzhov Scion)
ID. We would have played, but we were both having issues finding a time, despite both being in Los Angeles. First he flaked, then I flaked...Eventually it became clear that we were both going to make top 8 with a draw anyway, so we just decided to meet in the top 8.
Quarterfinals, rematch vs Killkeny (Rakdos the Defiler)
I was determined not to get surprised by the awesome power of Rakdos again. This time, the games worked out like I expected.
Game 1:
I mull twice, ending up with 2 lands, Dauntless Escort, Earthcraft, and Sword of Fire and Ice.
I have turn 2 Teeg, which sticks. I follow him up with Bloom Tender, then Earthcraft, Dauntless Escort, and Sterling Grove. He's doing something with Buried Alive, and has an Imperial Recruiter for Bone Shredder, but I break Sterling Grove for Squirrel Nest and make 100000 squirrels on turn 5, and he can't deal with it. (Though I think he could have made me sacrifice 50000 squirrels, which would have been been pretty funny.)
Game 2: I have a nicely redundant hand with 3 lands, Lignify, Arrest, Idyllic Tutor, and Worldly Tutor.
He starts out explosive with Ancient Tomb, Mana Vault (he's had this turn 1 3/4 games now), and Expedition Map. He has a Thoughtseize the following turn, prompting me to Worldly Tutor for Bloom Tender in response. He groans at my pair of enchantments, and takes Lignify. I play Bloom Tender on my turn, and he breaks the Map for Strip Mine. He has Tangle Wire on his turn, which I don't really care about. I think he's a little strained for colored mana, though he has plenty of colorless. While Tangle Wire ticks down, he strips one of my lands and plays Price of Glory, while I squeeze out Teeg. Once the Wire isn't hindering me, I Idyllic Tutor for Survival of the Fittest, play it, and discard something to get Peacekeeper (I have to do it on my turn because of Price of Glory, and I'm most worried about Rakdos). He continues to do nothing on his turn, and I draw Karmic Guide, so I just pitch the Peacekeeper for Yosei, the Morning Star, pitch Yosei for Mirror Entity, and Karmic Guide Yosei into play (with High Market untapped). He draws and concedes, knowing that I can go infinite with Reveillark on my next turn.
Semifinals, vs MCR (Teysa, Orzhov Scion)
I knew this was going to be a tough match for me. I know his deck well, having designed the initial version of it. It's resilient to Teeg and the rest of the gang, and consistently combos much faster than my deck. I was not expecting to win this one.
Game 1:
I keep a slightly sketchy hand with Plains, Selesnya Sanctuary, Survival of the Fittest, Lignify, Preacher, Idyllic Tutor, and Harmonic Sliver. Great cards, but the mana could be a little shaky.
He won the die roll and led with Library of Alexandria...not what I want to see. He milks it every turn, of course. His second play is Darkest Hour, while I haven't drawn a land and have to discard a Fauna Shaman after playing Selesnya Sanctuary. Luckily, he can't destroy it, as he just plays Stoneforge Mystic, getting Skullclamp. I finally draw a land, and play Survival of the Fittest. He just clamps up the Mystic and attacks on his turn, so I fetch up a Qasali Pridemage at eot. (I didn't have any obvious targets, and Pridemage is good at screwing up most of his attempts to combo. With Library of Alexandria going, I was expecting him to combo off any time now.)
I play Pridemage on my turn, but it doesn't last long. On his turn, he plays Nether Traitor and attempts to clamp it. I bite, and destroy the Skullclamp in response. He's already drawn a million cards, but apparently hasn't found what he needs...I'm not about to let him draw more. On my turn, I play Harmonic Sliver, hitting the Darkest Hour: again, I'm expecting him to go off any moment, so I'm just trying to shut down as many combo pieces as I can. I have a couple spare mana, so I play Teeg too, though he's mediocre against Teysa. He plays Phyrexian Arena on his turn (seriously, more card draw?), and I finally find a Strip Mine to deal with the LoA, though it's a bit late to the party. I've also drawn Earthcraft, so I play it and Idyllic Tutor for Squirrel Nest. Gotta go for it, right?
On his turn, he plays Flagstones of Trokair...and passes, with a full grip of cards. I have no idea what the hell is going on in his hand, but I'll take it. I topdeck Wasteland and hit his Scrubland, as I don't need the mana (though he has plenty of lands). He groans...apparently the Wasteland screwed up his plans. I play Squirrel Nest and pass, ready to make squirrels. He Vampiric Tutors at eot and thinks for a really long time, unsure of what to do. He eventually concludes that he punted, gets something, and draws to see what he gets off Arena. When it's not what he needs, he concedes.
I had no idea how I won that one, with him drawing like 15 extra cards throughout the game, but it somehow got there. MCR told me about his situation after the game...apparently, he was 1 mana off from killing me in 2 different ways, and I had just the perfect selection of answers. He had the whole Phyrexian Altar/Nether Traitor/Teysa combo, which produces infinite mana and tokens to sacrifice. He also had the kill card, Profane Command, but that was blocked by Teeg. If I hadn't destroyed the Skullclamp, he could have drawn his deck and won, but Skullclamp was gone. He was also 1 mana off from winning with Teysa/Painter's Servant/Altar of Dementia: if I hadn't destroyed Darkest Hour AND wasted his Scrubland, he would have been able to pull it off. I was definitely very lucky to scrape through that game with a win. Yay squirrels.
Game 2:
I mull into a pretty sweet hand with Plains, Strip Mine, Tithe, Mother of Runes, Sakura-Tribe Elder, and Pithing Needle.
He starts with Skullclamp, while I play Mother of Runes. Then he has Orzhov Basilica...nice. I Strip it of course, and it turns out he kept a 2-lander. He gets stuck on 1 Swamp for 3 turns, while I accelerate with Sakura-Tribe Elder, Worldly Tutor into Aven Mindcensor (he has a lot of tutors, and blocking a fetchland would be great) and play Teeg. Unfortunately, I've drawn no other action at all, and the best thing I can do after that is Otherworldly Journey Teeg to 3/3, so he beats down slightly more effectively. He finally finds a land to play Mox Diamond, and Demonic Tutors, looking for Balance, I'm sure, which would totally wreck me. I remind him of the Mindcensor though, and he fails to find Balance or Sickening Dreams in his top 4. On my turn I draw and play Yosei, the Morning Star. He draws a Flagstones of Trokair, looks at his top 2 cards, and concedes. He's dead to my creatures in a couple of turns, and his hand is powerful, but clunky. Nothing to save him. Whew.
Finals, vs funlicker (Adun Oakenshield)
This was one of the only decks in the top 8 that was really an unknown to me. I had played 1 game against an earlier version of it months ago. I remember that I lost to some ridiculous loops with Adun and Aether Vial, but not much else. I didn't know any of the intricacies of this list.
Well, it turns out that his deck might as well have been designed to beat mine. It's almost completely Teeg-proof, extremely light on artifacts and enchantments (which this deck is excellent at dealing with), and very effectively abuses the graveyard (my only graveyard hate is Stonecloaker, which can't really handle the volume his deck puts out). He also has some cards I really, really hate to see, like Pernicious Deed and especially Crypt Rats.
Game 1:
I do not get off to an auspicious start, when he Strip Mines my first land, plays Imperial Seal, and then Life from the Loam locks me on turn 3, leaving me stuck on 1 land. I'm pretty sure I can't win, but decide to play it out just in case (and to see some more of his deck). I did make a really huge mistake here...I had Enlightened Tutor in my opening hand, but wasn't used to using it (I think this is the first time I've drawn it in the tournament, and I hadn't played this deck since the semifinals). I thought about it early on turn 3 and concluded that I didn't have any artifacts/enchantments that could get me out of the Strip Mine lock, but I forgot about the Pithing Needle, which would have actually worked. I didn't realize until several turns after it was too late though.
Anyway, I wound up having more of a chance that I expected. He didn't really have any pressure on me, and I was able to get up to 2 lands by leading with Wooded Foothills. He then opted to let me get to 3 by playing Badlands instead of Strip Mine, so I was getting closer and closer to the Linvala, Keeper of Silence in my hand, which would have given me a shot. I even topdecked Pithing Needle, though it didn't really help me (he promptly destroyed it with Viridian Zealot, and had Wasteland too). Unfortunately, we had a connection error right before I was about to (probably) play Linvala, and were unable to reconnect or synchronize. We decided to just play 2 more games and decide from there (unless we go 1-1, the first game doesn't matter, and I wasn't liking my chances).
Game 2:
I mull into a decent hand with 4 lands, Linvala, and Eternal Witness.
He has a Boreal Druid to start, but nothing to quickly accelerate into. I have turn 2 Teeg, while he has a turn 3 Sign in Blood. I draw and play Cultivate (and miss an attack because I'm writing, but it wouldn't have mattered). He decides to attack Boreal Druid into Teeg...I think about it decide not to block, because I have no idea what he could have. The most likely card (if it wasn't a bluff) seemed like Darkblast, and it didn't seem worth the risk. He plays Adun after combat.
I have Linvala, Keeper of Silence on my turn, which he promptly hits with Maelstrom Pulse, and then Eternal Witness to get the Pulse back. On my turn, I Karmic Guide Linvala back into play. He attacks with Witness, which I don't block because I don't want him to be able to recur it, Pulses Linvala again, and plays Viridian Zealot. I play Eternal Witness on my turn, to hopefully stick Linvala this time...but he blows me out with Shred Memory for all 4 cards in my graveyard. Ouch.
He attacks with Eternal Witness and Viridian Zealot, and I'm willing to trade my Witness for the Zealot. He doesn't play anything else after combat. I draw Stonecloaker (score!), play a land, and pass. At eot, he Darkblasts his own Eternal Witness, and tries to recur it with Adun, to which I respond by RFGing the Witness with Stonecloaker. He makes a comment that he tapped his mana wrong (he has 2 untapped), which really should have clued me in. I have 5 lands untapped, so I really should have played Stonecloaker again to nab the Darkblast, but I was more concerned about the Viridian Zealot. Had I known more about the contents of his deck, I would definitely have just taken the Darkblast, a decision that might possibly have won me this game. Instead, I just passed the turn, and used Stonecloaker when he tried to Adun back the Viridian Zealot in his main phase (despite knowing that it was a trap). Of course, he had Terminate to take it out, though at least I got the Zealot.
I really have nothing meaningful in hand at this point (I think it's just Land Tax and Harmonic Sliver, and I have more lands than him, and he has no artifacts/enchantments). Unfortunately, I don't draw anything relevant for 4 or 5 more turns, which gives him time to completely take over the game. He finds a Bazaar of Baghdad, which lets him dredge a bunch of cards into the graveyard each turn with Darkblast. He also finds Crypt Rats, which is probably the nail in the coffin. I can't really beat that card without Linvala, Pithing Needle, or maybe Voidstone Gargoyle, and Linvala is already RFG. He also finds a Street Wraith, which, in conjunction with Adun, lets him dredge even more cards per turn. The game is basically over at this point. I fight back for several turns, with Knight of the Reliquary, Duplicant on Adun, and Squirrel Nest, but he's already found all the answers (Big Game Hunter and Acidic Slime). I'm not gaining any ground, and eventually have to concede.
Game 3:
This one's anticlimactic, after the rather intense previous game. I draw a hand with just a couple of Forests for mana, but containing Guilty Conscience and Worldly Tutor. I figure that my best chance in this miserable matchup is to go for the Stuffy Doll/Guilty Conscience combo, as it's basically already in hand and he seemed to have very few answers to it. I mull away my other three cards, and actually draw Stuffy Doll (along with a useless Squirrel Nest).
However, he has a rather amazing start (Dark Ritual into Phyrexian Arena, followed by Tarmogoyf, followed by Ancient Tomb, Umezawa's Jitte, equip), while I draw no lands and nothing I can cast. I try my best (tutoring for Bloom Tender, before Jitte makes an appearance and murders it), but there's nothing I can do.
Ah well. It was a great tournament, and I enjoyed playing all of my opponents. Sucks to lose in the finals, but I guess it's better than losing anywhere else. funlicker definitely deserved the win: his deck is awesome (and original), and very well situated to beat mine. I already got lucky to escape in the semifinals vs MCR; I'm quite satisfied to finish second.
UR Jhoira RU
WBG Doran GBW
URG Intet GRU
WG Rhys GW
WBU Zur UBW
G SNAKES on a Plane (as it refers to MTG (Seshiro) G
T2:
URG Destructive Money URG
Besides, I already have a Yosei lock with High Market, and I note that it's quite bad anyway. It's going to be a 3-card combo no matter what you do, so it's not worth focusing on.
Please read the whole post before suggesting things I've already addressed.
You mention that protecting Teeg is of vital importance, have you ever considered Steely Resolve as another peice of protection? It would cut off your opponent's ability to kill Teeg in response (to say equiping with Greaves or tapping Mother of Runes), and would not stifle any of the combos as far as I can tell.
Do you feel that Treetop Village may have a place in this deck? Maybe even Nantuko Monastery, although achieveing threshold might not be consistant enough to warrent Monastery. Considering you have so many creatures, and thus will be forceing through some damage manlands seem like a decent way to quicken the clock, and more realistically go aggro if the situation calls for it. Plus if your opponent is somehow able to resolve a sweeper you'll at least still be left with some board presence.
Is the damage from City of Brass too much since you expect the game to go so long that it's not worth the additional versatility?
Considering how rare removal is in these colors is Mouth of Ronam something you've considered? Particularly since you mention that creature decks can sometimes be problematic. Speaking of "removal" have you ever tested Prision Term or Arrest? Another card which could help you win creature wars is Ajani Goldmane, while also doubling as an alternate win condition if your opponent has no creatures on board. Wilt-Leaf Liege could also help you just aggro someone out and win creature wars.
How is your matchup against heavy counterspell generals? Have you ever considered more anti-control creatures such as Xantid Swarm or Gaea's Herald?
Finally, since I know you've worked extensively on both decks, could you tell me the advantages this deck has over Sisay? Considering you can tutor for Teeg with Sisay along with a whole host of other disruptive generals, what matchups do you feel that Teeg is better in and why should someone choose Teeg over Sisay?
Once again great work on the deck, look forward to your answers.
Teeg ruins so many decks and strategies, it isn't even funny. That's why I usually seem to be tutoring for Teeg first when I play my Sisay deck. Even tuned 1v1 EDH decks that have an overall mana curve lower than a typical multiplayer EDH deck will still fall victim from time to time to Teeg. The only decks that really circumvent him are the fast aggro decks or just decks that focus on pumping out creatures in general.
By being able to get the turn 2 Teeg, this really increases the chance of having him resolve and stick against a blue deck. Most blue decks don't like it when their 4+ mana countermagic is disabled, along with cards like FoF, Tezz, Jace 2.0, Force, and Time Stretch. Gaining virtual card advantage against THE color that is known for card advantage is a big plus.
Teeg also puts a major dent in combo decks by disabling many key combo engines, such as Ad Nauseam, Mind's Desire, Future Sight, Time Spiral, and kill cards like Tendrils.
Basically, you lose versatility and consistency that Sisay gives you, in exchange for playing one of the most disruptive cards in the format on turn 2.
The aggro aspect is important, especially against control decks where it might be difficult to resolve a combo, but it's not something that should be really be focused on. This deck can be fairly glacial, but that's okay--when your opponent is paralyzed, it doesn't matter how fast you move. When aggro is going to get there, it will get there: it doesn't particularly matter if you have a 7 turn clock or a 10 clock clock. As such, cards that only increase the clock aren't really what we're looking for.
Steely Resolve: I have considered it, though I've never actually tested it in this deck. It's fairly awkward here, as Gaddock Teeg is the card that most frequently needs to be protected...but he is by no means the only one. I don't play any other creatures that share a type with him, which makes Steely Resolve limited in its use. I think it's approximately as useful overall as Aspect of Mongoose, which I used to play, but was never satisfied with. It's also worth noting that enchantments that grant shroud can be pretty annoying. While it won't prevent any combos, it does stop you from attaching equipment or saving with Saffi, both of which are important interactions.
I used to play Treetop Village, before Worldwake was released. Stirring Wildwood is almost strictly better here, and I really don't feel a need for 2 manlands (I barely want one--probably 3/4 times I activate Stirring Wildwood it's actually to block a flyer).
Nantuko Monastery doesn't seem worthwhile here because this deck is fairly hungry for colored mana (and again, has very limited use for manlands as it's not really interested in "quickening the clock"). You want to have access to both white and green from the very beginning of the game, and even later on can require large amounts of colored mana (lots of green for Survival of the Fittest, and you need double white pretty early too). I have 7 lands that don't produce colored mana right now (counting Krosan Verge), and I don't really want to go higher than that (I've run 9 before, and had some problems).
I'm not especially concerned about the damage from City of Brass, but I don't think this deck really needs another dualland. It would take away another basic, and with all these fetchlands, Land Tax, Tithe, Life from the Loam, Yavimaya Elder, Kodama's Reach, Knight of the Reliquary, Sakura-Tribe Elder, Yavimaya Dryad, Solemn Simulacrum, and so on it's not at all uncommon to run out of basic lands in the deck in the lategame. While this isn't a huge deal, it's still better to be able to find lands than not. I don't want to go lower than 10 basics (and I'd prefer 11-12).
I have played Mouth of Ronom before, and never got much use out of it. This deck isn't actually all that removal-light--it does have 10 cards that can kill/steal creatures. Considering that most creatures can be made irrelevant by Peacekeeper or Linvala, that's not bad. I found that I needed fewer colorless-producing lands, and judged Mouth of Ronom and Winding Canyons to be the least useful ones that I was playing.
I have considered both Prison Term and Arrest. If I wanted more removal, Arrest would probably be the next card I would add. I've been satisfied with the removal count and with just 1 enchantment removal spell though, and I much prefer Lignify to Arrest.
Ajani Goldmane is a 4cc non-creature, which is a big no-no. Even if he cost 3 though, I don't think he fits this deck's plan at all. Wilt-Leaf Liege is similarly unnecessary, though it's not a bad card--I just don't feel that it adds much to the deck. I'm pretty sure that most any game I win with the boost from Wilt-Leaf Liege would be just about as winnable without it.
I've never really thought about anti-counterspell creatures (though they could fit well in here) because I haven't had any issues beating blue decks (though I don't remember ever playing Clique with this deck, and I don't intend to). It sounds silly, but I just kind of...play cards against them, and that seems to work fine. There are enough creatures that at least a few of them are going to resolve...which ones doesn't even matter that much, as they all apply some sort of pressure against blue. Teeg goes a long way against these decks: though he doesn't actually shut them down, he makes their job a lot harder, rendering perhaps 20% of their more powerful spells useless and significantly reducing the "answer density" of these decks. Just playing out creatures, turning them sideways, and blowing up important artifacts tends to be enough. If I get a chance, I try to resolve Stoneforge Mystic and use it to tutor/put into play Sword of Fire and Ice, which has yet to fail me against blue. That's not even necessary though.
That's why Peacekeeper is basically the second general for this deck. Against the decks where Teeg is weak, Peacekeeper is extremely strong, and replaces him as the most important creature to protect. Between Teeg, Peacekeeper, and Linvala, there's almost nothing that gets through.
Teeg vs. Sisay is an interesting decision. Surging Chaos is correct on all points, but there's a little more to it than that. Teeg is probably the single most important card in the Sisay deck, so having early and even more consistent access to him is valuable. It's also important to note that Teeg is far more resilient when played as a general--it's not uncommon to have Teeg killed once or twice, but he's very easy to replay. In Sisay, if Teeg gets killed once, chances are fairly good that he's gone for the entire game, as the legendary recursion options in G/W kind of suck.
This deck also gets to play better cards than Sisay, as it's not trying to flesh out a legendary toolbox to enable the general. Sisay winds up playing some weird and somewhat suboptimal cards like Glissa Sunseeker, Arashi, the Sky Asunder, and Tolsimir Wolfblood because it pretty much has to. Also, the combos in Sisay tend to be more costly and unwieldy, because of all the legendary components. Furthermore, since Sisay costs twice as much and the deck doesn't get rolling until she can be activated, the deck needs to play a whole lot of cheap acceleration, which decreases threat density quite a bit. With a Gaddock Teeg deck, you can just play only the best cards, and the most efficient combos, and have a more high-powered deck overall.
This is not to say that Gaddock Teeg is necessarily a better general--Sisay certainly wins faster, and it's more consistent (in the sense that you can make most games play out similarly). Sisay is also more versatile--once it gets going, it's better at finding answers to specific problems. In fact, Sisay was actually one of the most difficult matchups for Gaddock Teeg, as both Teeg and Peacekeeper are relatively ineffective against her.
However, Sisay does have one final weakness compared to Teeg, which is that she's much more vulnerable to certain kinds of hate. There really aren't a lot of cards that bother Teeg. The most annoying is probably Oblivion Stone (which is actually an even worse problem for Sisay). In contrast, Sisay is very weak against both creature theft and Pithing Needle-type effects, and is moderately weak to both spot and mass removal. These weaknesses are exacerbated by the printing of Linvala, Keeper of Silence, which is probably the best Sisay hate card ever printed (though she's good in Sisay as well). The addition of Linvala to Gaddock Teeg shored up the deck's weaknesses considerably, and turned the matchup against Sisay from unfavorable to quite good.
When I have a choice, I prefer to go with the more resilient deck that has at least a decent shot against anything, rather than an all-in deck that wins most matches but struggles against certain strategies. I'm exaggerating both decks in this example (Teeg is very powerful too, and has great matchups against many decks, while Sisay is not entirely all-in on Sisay), but I do feel like Gaddock Teeg is a stronger choice, at least for me. Because it plays such a variety of answers and often makes for quite long games, almost every game gives you multiple opportunities to outplay opponents. There is a card in here to blank just about any gameplan.
This isn't the deck that gets shut down by certain cards--it's the deck that shuts other decks down.
I played against Evergreen's Iname deck, and it has come to my attention that the deck could use more efficient graveyard hate. Not just for the Iname matchup, but against generals like Sharuum, Xiahou Dun, and any deck that has a tendency to use Academy Ruins, Volrath's Stronghold, Reveillark, or pretty much any other graveyard interactions. As much as I love Stonecloaker, it is just not that great as a real graveyard hoser tool. I am considering Loaming Shaman, considering I play him in my Sisay deck too and cutting Heartbeat of Spring for it should I not turn Stonecloaker loose (since he does serve other purposes). I just really can't find any real use for Heartbeat.
It might be the prefect deck for it.
The whole point of this deck is to lock an opponent out of playing useful spells--whether it's coming from their hand or their graveyard doesn't make much difference. I've never had any degree of difficulty against Academy Ruins and the like, because there isn't much that scares me out of the graveyard.
Let's look at Iname, which is probably the most competitive deck that uses the graveyard. I haven't actually played this deck against Iname, but I do know how the deck works well enough to theorycraft the matchup. Much relies on being able to play Teeg and protect him, but that's what this deck is designed to do above all else. Iname only has one spell that can deal with a shrouded Teeg (Oblivion Stone). Teeg only shuts off 12 cards in that deck, but they're good ones, including 3/4 mass reanimation effects, Damnation, and 2 of the spot removal spells. If we can stick Teeg, Balthor the Defiled is the only way for Iname to go off. Linvala can shut him off (as well as the spirit army...if we have Linvala and Peacekeeper, it doesn't matter if the army gets reanimated). Aven Mindcensor is also fantastic in this matchup, largely because of how difficult he makes it to find Oblivion Stone.
The only other graveyard use in this deck involves Bloodghast/Skullclamp abuse. This is powerful, but is really better answered by artifact removal anyway.
I'm sure that Iname is a somewhat difficult matchup, but I'm not convinced that adding graveyard hate is going to help any. I doubt you can catch Iname with Loaming Shaman at the crucial moment 1 in 20 games. He's prepared for that. We do have the tools to proactively shut down Iname's gameplan. We're better off winning on our terms, by invalidating his win-conditions, than trying to disrupt him at his own game. The hardest thing about this matchup is not the use of the graveyard, but the threat of Oblivion Stone--if you're trying to shore up this matchup, I'd play stuff like Pithing Needle or Voidstone Gargoyle before anything else.
The same holds true for just about every other situation involving graveyard recursion as well. When you really do need to remove something, it's usually just one or two cards, and I've found Stonecloaker to be enough every time.
Heartbeat of Spring seems like one of the weaker cards in the deck, but I have a hard time cutting it. It's not good in every situation--but every time I decide to keep an eye on it in a match, it blows me away with how good it is. The proper time to play it is just after you've set up a strong board position, frequently with Teeg, Peacekeeper, and something that can protect them a bit. At this point, your opponent is scrambling for specific answers, not extra mana, so they rarely cast anything relevant with it. You can get a huge benefit out of it though. I usually play it with 5-6 lands in play--with Peacekeeper eating up 2 mana per turn, that doesn't leave me a lot to work with. When I DON'T have Heartbeat, it frequently takes me a long, long time to win, and sometimes an opponent can find a suitable answer in that time. When I do have Heartbeat, I almost always win very quickly, as I can just dump my hand and find everything necessary.
Now, the games I win with Heartbeat, would I have been able to win without it? Most of the time, probably so, and that's the number 1 reason it might be worth cutting. It definitely does make me win much faster though, and that's got to count for something. I've yet to lose a game to Heartbeat, so I think it's pulling its weight for now.
I don't think Path to Exile is a great fit though. Heartbeat of Spring is good because I play it at a very specific time, when the drawback is unlikely to help my opponent much. With Path to Exile, while it solves a problem, it's the kind of card you want to play before you've achieved that lockdown--and at that point, the drawback can still help your opponent very much. I don't think I need more removal, and if I did, there are other spells I'd play before this.
Thanks.
A problem I've noticed the deck (Teeg) has is resolved board wipe. A recurring Inundate ruins people, and a more permanent solution such as DoJ or *** seems just as bad. It could also be that my Opponent was playing an inferior list, but Teeg was his general, and I saw some of the cards in your list.
Your discussion of "problem cards" makes me wonder whether you know what Teeg does, or if perhaps you have him confused with a different general. Stuff like Inundate, Wrath of God, and Day of Judgment are not problems at all, precisely because Teeg is the general.
Currently running:
BRG Xira Arien BRG
UR Melek, Izzet Paragon UR
WUG Jenara, Asura of War WUG
WRG Mayael the Anima WRG
WB Triad of Fates WB
BG Mazirek, Kraul Death Priest BG
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots BR
WR Aurelia the Warleader WR
WBG Ghave, Guru of Spores WBG
WUBRG Horde of Notions WUBRG
There are recovery mechanisms built into the deck--Saffi Eriksdotter, Reveillark, Karmic Guide, Adarkar Valkyrie, Genesis, Eternal Witness, and Sword of Light and Shadow all help you rebuild (some better than others). With some of these cards, it's very easy to keep the crucial creatures in play.
I've had Oblivion Stone played against me about 6 times (in over 50 games), and I think I still won all but one of those games (while it's annoying, it's not like it leaves your opponent in a better position, and you can recover very quickly with stuff like Saffi in play). I've had Pernicious Deed played against me only once (won that game a couple turns later with a Stuffy Doll/Guilty Conscience combo I had been setting up). I've never had Decree of Pain played against me, but it wouldn't be that bad either.
The deck is designed to prevent sweepers from being cast, but it's not like it folds if one slips through.
You play enough creatures that Edicts shouldn't pose much of a threat to Teeg, and while Snake Umbra DOES protect you from Vendetta-type effects, it won't do anything against things like bounce, Swords to Plowshares, Duplicant, or (heaven forbid) Oblation -- these are most of the common "outs" other decks have at their disposal.
I know your deck is a well-oiled machine and is a lot different from mine (which is tuned for multiplayer), but I just want to get your input on this. Cool deck! I really appreciate the credit you've given me, even though your list is an entirely different animal now.
Draft my Mono-Blue Cube!
lichess.org | chess.com
Resolved bounce, ala Capsize, Boomerang, etc. to be rid of him. After that is when I resolved Time Stretch/Inundate.
Am I dead wrong on this?
Other then that I really despise the bounceland being in the deck, but with your opponents higher spells locked down really they have nothing better to do but blow this up with their waste effect.
Finally if the g/w manland has been nice maybe it's time to incorporate Treetop Village. Sure its not a dual land, but it does have it's benefits.
Snake Umbra isn't a totally essential card, but I greatly prefer it to Aspect of Mongoose. AoM ends up being a lot more awkward than you might expect in a deck with this many protection mechanisms. It's also made almost completely redundant by Sylvan Safekeeper, a common tutor target. The biggest issue with AoM, however, is that it can actually block your protection late-game. Imagine a board position including Gaddock Teeg (with AoM), Sylvan Safekeeper, and Saffi Eriksdotter/Adarkar Valkyrie/Mother of Runes. Teeg seems pretty safe...but if you happen to get hit by one of the few sweepers that can get through, like Oblivion Stone or Pyroclasm, AoM actually prevents you from being able to keep Teeg in play. This situation came up quite a few times, and makes me not want to play AoM at all. (Canopy Cover would actually be better, but I don't really want to play that either.)
Snake Umbra is just a more versatile aura. It stops a different type of removal--though it's vulnerable to bounce or STP, it's actually effective against the aforementioned sweepers. It also results in increasing card advantage as long as it remains it play, making it easier to justify playing it early rather than developing your board position. Overall, I consider it to be roughly as effective at protection as AoM (stops slightly less removal overall, but never stops Saffi), and it has a much better secondary effect. It could probably be cut for something else, but it wouldn't be AoM.
Speaking of edicts, Tajuru Preserver should probably get the boot, as he hasn't been as useful as I hoped. I haven't decided what to play instead--I'll be testing Congregation at Dawn and Stonehewer Giant.
Resolved bounce, ala Capsize, Boomerang:
It is quite unlikely that you will be able to resolve bounce against me by the time you have enough mana for Inundate or Time Stretch. I have 6 cheap cards that make Teeg untargetable by bounce, and I tutor for them aggressively. He's typically shrouded or pro-blue by turn 4 or 5.
Sakura-Tribe Elder, Yavimaya Elder, and friends:
This is a good question. It's true that I'm not really ramping into many big spells, but this is still quite a mana-hungry deck. I don't want to cast expensive spells, but I do usually want to be paying for multiple spells and/or equip costs per turn. Up until about 8 mana (which usually doesn't happen without Heartbeat of Spring), I can pretty much always efficiently use all of my mana every turn. Even with Heartbeat, I can frequently spend 10 or more mana per turn.
The mana accelerators just get you rolling faster, and significantly reduce the chance of losing to manascrew. Since I can effectively use the extra mana, they more than pay for themselves in terms of tempo within a couple of turns. I haven't actually tried cutting them, but I would not want to: I'm always happy to draw them. They keep things running smoothly.
Selesnya Sanctuary:
This is an important card in this deck. It helps to enable Weathered Wayfarer and Land Tax, both of which are incredibly strong if they get going.
Even without these cards, Selesnya Sanctuary is still never bad if played properly. If you have other lands to play, then you just play SS late, around turn 5 or 6. At this point, any LD in hand has probably been used, and even if it does get destroyed it's not a big deal. If you DON'T have other lands to play, then you have to play it early, but it's essentially 2 lands. It's actually a very good card if you're light on lands. Yeah, it sucks if it gets destroyed in this case, but it's still only a tempo loss. You'd have been in just about as bad a state if you didn't have it. Just don't play it early if you can avoid it, and it's fine.
Treetop Village vs Stirring Wildwood:
I mentioned this somewhere else in the thread, but I basically never attack with Stirring Wildwood. 90% of the time, it's just a Elfhame Palace, which is fine. The other 10% of the time, I use it to block flyers (or deter flyers from attacking). Treetop Village can't fix mana, and it can't block flyers. It pretty much just attacks, and that's not something I'm interested in.
Glissa, the Traitor, Ulasht, the Hate Seed, The Mimeoplasm
I have some surprises I'm saving for the tournament, so I won't be updating my list yet. When the tournament concludes, I'll update the list, discuss all my choices, and provide a tournament report if I do well.