Hi everyone! I have been into EDH for a while and i have tried many different brews of competitive builds. My good friends mutedequilibrium and evergreen play in the tourneys held here on salvation and im trying to tune a build that i feel is worth to compete. I have sent a fair amount of time tuning my build of this deck and would like further input into making this deck a streamlined 1v1 machine. I am excited to discuss my card choices and suggested cards as well with other members of the community that are into competitive EDH. My list is designed for the modified french ban list as per the rules of the tournaments held here. Without further adieu...
To get the card tags to work, you have to remove all the [card] tags in each individual card, and then just put the decktags surrounding the whole decklist. I know you won't exactly like doing that, but the [deck] tag basically card tags all the cards in it in one fell swoop.
As for the deck itself, I was talking with Khymera about how the best Clique deck realistically never has to actually cast a spell on their own turn. I think if you just focus majorly on just counters and bounce... especially the bounce, most decks will just collapse without their general and the sight of an inevitable loss in seven turns.
I'll elaborate further on this tomorrow when I get the chance. Vendilion Clique is easily by far and away the best 1v1 general, and when built correctly and played as *** as it can possibly get, the vast majority of generals stand no remote chance of winning.
Not sure on your intended win con, but I commonly see Clique win via Tunnel Vision. You have the base parts for it, but Ethereal Usher can be a Vision#2 for you.
What role do you play during your matches normally, control? Please give more detail on your play style.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
-C.S. Lewis
You generally don't focus on Tunnel Vision as your win condition. It's just a backup instant-win card that's there if you need it. The main way of killing is through general damage with a wall of countermagic. Since many EDH decks have pretty bad threat density, it becomes easy to save all your counters and bounce for only the relevant spells.
For your deck tag issues, make sure you put a 1 in front of every card. You have to have the quantity first.
I would think having Disk and OStone to blow up the world as a just in case thing wouldn't be bad. Also, I hear recurring Mindslaver is backbreaking. Your general is very weak in the p/t, obviously, so you need to have a backup plan. Mox Diamond could be another card used to help push out a T2 Clique.
You might want to give this more time so that way you can see if your feelings persist. If they do, they return to play with a -1/-1 counter and you gain 2 life.
This is an exceptional list. You seem to have all your bases completely covered. Maybe you could try out a Personal Tutor if you feel the need for more tutoring, otherwise, depending on how well you control the permanents on the board you might want to look into Into the Roil, or if the board is exceptionally clear going for the EoT Sunder. Great list!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
When nothing remains, everything is equally possible.
This is an exceptional list. You seem to have all your bases completely covered. Maybe you could try out a Personal Tutor if you feel the need for more tutoring, otherwise, depending on how well you control the permanents on the board you might want to look into Into the Roil, or if the board is exceptionally clear going for the EoT Sunder. Great list!
Oh dear god, Sunder is an instant? I think it def. needs to be in.
But as for the bounce spells, I'm just not a fan. I agree, it can tempo the hell out of someone, but if you don't have more than 1 in hand, it will hardly be relevant, at least for the important matchups (I have rofellos in mind here). As for the other matchups, you won't even need it as you wreck anything that doesn't play blue or green.
For the tutor part, I think raw card draw is more important. And tutoring for a soercery isnt exciting. Neither is tutoring an instant at sorcery speed
Thank you, I've been toying it around for nearly six month now. But it's a shame, my local store doesn't want to host 1v1 tournaments so the deck isn't as good as it should be. But in 1v1, yea, you won't find a better list (core of the list I mean).
On a side note, I don't know if you guys notice, but there is a combo in the deck with palinchron / academy / lens. You can get infinite mana the second you have your 7th land with lens, or with 5 artifacts with tolarian academy. If it amuses you, you can more tutors to fetch up the parts and include memnarch or staff of domination to abuse it
You might want to give this more time so that way you can see if your feelings persist. If they do, they return to play with a -1/-1 counter and you gain 2 life.
Thanks for all the great replys everyone. Im excited to see interest in my beloved general.
@surging chaos
I tried the deck tag and it just put a list of my cards in the deck box thing, no tags. Maybe i need to add the quantities of the cards to fix it.
@kuvien
The win condition is definitely the big masta Clique. I plan on controlling the game and getting in there for 7 clique attacks.
@navy joe
I dont play mindslaver because im using the French ban list, which doesnt allow that amazing card. Good suggestion tho.
@ Voyager Silver
Are you talking about my list or were-wolf's? I think were-wolfs list is an awesome one! Personal tutor feels slow. I would opt for merchant scroll first because it fetches more things. Sunder is an awesome idea. I have thought about into the roil and may play test with it soon.
@were-wolf
Thanks for posting here. Your list is acutally were i started and have been making choices based on my playtesting and personal preference. I also think Clique is a strong general. The bounce is in there to EOT bounce a general and clique it away. I dont play a ton of it but some i feel is necessary. I wonder if Khymera is going to stop by here sometime. I would love his/her input as well. Sunder is a HOUSE. Now...what to take out.
Thanks again everyone for your comments! I have been having a bit of trouble with Rofellos. His mana accel is just insane. I may start running silver bullets for the green menace in the form of acid rain or threads of disloyalty. Discuss...
Thanks for all the great replys everyone. Im excited to see interest in my beloved general.
@surging chaos
I tried the deck tag and it just put a list of my cards in the deck box thing, no tags. Maybe i need to add the quantities of the cards to fix it.
@kuvien
The win condition is definitely the big masta Clique. I plan on controlling the game and getting in there for 7 clique attacks.
@navy joe
I dont play mindslaver because im using the French ban list, which doesnt allow that amazing card. Good suggestion tho.
@ Voyager Silver
Are you talking about my list or were-wolf's? I think were-wolfs list is an awesome one! Personal tutor feels slow. I would opt for merchant scroll first because it fetches more things. Sunder is an awesome idea. I have thought about into the roil and may play test with it soon.
@were-wolf
Thanks for posting here. Your list is acutally were i started and have been making choices based on my playtesting and personal preference. I also think Clique is a strong general. The bounce is in there to EOT bounce a general and clique it away. I dont play a ton of it but some i feel is necessary. I wonder if Khymera is going to stop by here sometime. I would love his/her input as well. Sunder is a HOUSE. Now...what to take out.
Thanks again everyone for your comments! I have been having a bit of trouble with Rofellos. His mana accel is just insane. I may start running silver bullets for the green menace in the form of acid rain or threads of disloyalty. Discuss...
You can also try out Piracy charm if rofellos is too problematic. I Don't think they can afford to lose the base of the deck on turn 2 :P. And even if they recast it turn 4, you've already established yourself with the clique and the arsenal of counters you're using.
You might want to give this more time so that way you can see if your feelings persist. If they do, they return to play with a -1/-1 counter and you gain 2 life.
I have searched far and wider for Khymera's list and i havent found it yet. When i wanted to start clique EDH i had read about a tourney he won with the faerie. His list never turned up.
Khymera championed the use of Vision Charm. it can:
A) Time walk a mono colour deck
B) Counter target "to top of deck" tutor.
C) Kill target Divining Top that has been put on top of library
D) Protect an artifact from removal or stall an opponent's Nev Disk.
Matchup seems pretty fair, to hard to tell if either is favored although I think clique is a little.
Some notes on your list, the curve seems a little high. I would have a hard look at you more expensive spells like Tezzeret and the amount of artifact acceleration you run to see if they are really necessary.
Bribery seems like a dead card in these matchups:
Zur
Arcum
5c Combo
Vendillion Clique
Oona combo
What do you mean? are they supposed to be suggestions? If they do I already play standstill and I suppose cutting an island for mishra couldnt hurt... But tbh the only reason I play mutavault is caus its a faerie (mistbind), I don't think I'll ever kill someone with muta pings if I ever have standstill in play And anyways, they just make you draw 3 cards as soon as they untap regardless of what you have.
Bribery seems like a dead card in these matchups:
Zur
Arcum
5c Combo
Vendillion Clique
Oona combo
Bribing a teferi / dralnu into play will win you the game for certain; especially against decks that use permission as a main strategy. But in general, bribery is an awesome card even if it's useless against that one deck (zur). It can become handy against any decks...
Some notes on your list, the curve seems a little high. I would have a hard look at you more expensive spells like Tezzeret and the amount of artifact acceleration you run to see if they are really necessary.
Playing lands is more important than accelerating into an early threat. The deck curves out at 3 so even if you have one million mana accel turn one, you still can't play the clique because it recquires 1UU.
The only expensive spells are tezz / big coutners and those 2-4 creatures, I don't see what the problem is @ 39 lands
EDIT: Oh I just realised, what you said might not have been adressed to me correct me if im wrong
You might want to give this more time so that way you can see if your feelings persist. If they do, they return to play with a -1/-1 counter and you gain 2 life.
Re-read Vision charm, it only converts one 'type' of land into another, so it does nothing to non-dual land non-basics (double negative? lol) The card is still awesome tho.
I suppose Teferi is a viable target in most of those decks. Still, Bribery is a 5 mana sorcery speed win condition in a deck that doesn't really need one? It is stronger than I gave it credit for.
As for your list Were,
Extraplanar Lens / Palichorn, is this really needed? What about replacing Lens with Expedition Map and Temple of the False God? It sill goes infinite with Palichorn and has more utility outside of the combo (able to fetch academy, strip mine etc)
Tezzeret - Using the french banlist (without Crypt, Sol Ring or Crucible) does he really do enough for this deck? Scepter, Jitte and Needle are his only good targets left.
I wonder how many people would find it annoying if I complained just as much about creature combat, because I dislike games where people do nothing but cast creatures, butt heads and do boring combat math?
Of course, my mistake you are correct. That being said, it seems like a weak alternate win condition. Were's deck only has 1 card that wins with infinte mana (stroke).
Why are you guys concentrating on winning with infinite combos? You only need two actual ways of winning: general damage, and to an extent Tunnel Vision.
Khymera championed the use of Vision Charm. it can:
A) Time walk a mono colour deck
B) Counter target "to top of deck" tutor.
C) Kill target Divining Top that has been put on top of library
D) Protect an artifact from removal or stall an opponent's Nev Disk.
Matchup seems pretty fair, to hard to tell if either is favored although I think clique is a little.
Some notes on your list, the curve seems a little high. I would have a hard look at you more expensive spells like Tezzeret and the amount of artifact acceleration you run to see if they are really necessary.
Bribery seems like a dead card in these matchups:
Zur
Arcum
5c Combo
Vendillion Clique
Oona combo
Thanks for the reply. I have actually been trimming the fat a lot lately in order to streamline the deck. I see what you mean about bribery and tezzeret. They were both on the chopping block already. Maybe i'll try taking them out and playing the two charms. I definitely want to be playing all my spells on my opponents turn as much as humanly possible. I dont run a lot of artifact accel because tapping out for accelerants in the early turns can be bad if i really need to counter something. Also, this deck loves its colored mana so running accelerants that tap for colorless need to be kept at a minimum i think. I tried standstill and i felt that it is so so. If my opponent has a better board position they will just sit on it and beat me down. I removed it because i felt that it was a little situational. Id like all my cards to be good at all times. Except for the ones that i may play for certain inherantly bad matchups.
The goal of your deck should be to ensure that your clock (7 attacks with Clique) is always faster than any clock your opponent puts you on. Thats how this deck wins after all. And since this 'state' is something you need to maintain for the majority of 7 turns there should be ample opportunity for standstill to be a live card.
Standstill effectively reads:
Standstill 1U
Sorcery
Play only if Vendillion Clique is in play, and only if your opponent has not effectively won the game already.
Draw three cards.
In summary, when is stanstill dead?:
-pre-clique
-opponent has a relevant (read: faster than clique) threat in play and you have no answers in hand (read: you have already lost the game).
Id say playing a card second only to ancestral recall is worth those blank periods.
Re-read Vision charm, it only converts one 'type' of land into another, so it does nothing to non-dual land non-basics (double negative? lol) The card is still awesome tho.
I suppose Teferi is a viable target in most of those decks. Still, Bribery is a 5 mana sorcery speed win condition in a deck that doesn't really need one? It is stronger than I gave it credit for.
As for your list Were,
Extraplanar Lens / Palichorn, is this really needed? What about replacing Lens with Expedition Map and Temple of the False God? It sill goes infinite with Palichorn and has more utility outside of the combo (able to fetch academy, strip mine etc)
Tezzeret - Using the french banlist (without Crypt, Sol Ring or Crucible) does he really do enough for this deck? Scepter, Jitte and Needle are his only good targets left.
tezz is to fetch isochron / needle. and im not using the french banned list as i dont live in france so...
You might want to give this more time so that way you can see if your feelings persist. If they do, they return to play with a -1/-1 counter and you gain 2 life.
Yes but the OP list is constrained by the "french" list so its still a valid question, as this thread is an attempt to optimize his list.
Given that Tez's utility is greatly diminished by the bans, I question his worthiness.
Indeed. I see your point about tezzeret. Im greatly considering taking him out.
I know that standstill is strong in a deck that wants to draw/go but i have had many situations where i was in a bad position on board and it was a dead draw in my hand. The problem that i have with the card is the "only" statements. Its a good card dont get me wrong, but im trying to make sure all the cards i play are strong at all times, unless of course the card reads, "resolve this spell, win the game". i.e. tunnel vision.
I have updated the original post to include my new list of cards. i added standstill back in because i see the power it can potentially provide. Trimmed a bit of the fat as well in order to more efficiently accomplish the goal of 7 clique attacks.
Philip plays Extraplanar Lens from Hand Island is enchanting Extraplanar Lens now Philip taps Island Philip taps Island Philip taps Dust Bowl Philip plays Treachery from Hand
Philip taps Island
<Philip> float UU
<Hix360> ☺☺☺☺ this <Philip> get mad nap <Hix360> take your tier deck elsewhere <Philip> ez raged?
You might want to give this more time so that way you can see if your feelings persist. If they do, they return to play with a -1/-1 counter and you gain 2 life.
Philip plays Extraplanar Lens from Hand Island is enchanting Extraplanar Lens now
Philip taps Island Philip taps Island Philip taps Dust Bowl Philip plays Treachery from Hand
Philip taps Island <Philip> float UU
<Hix360> ☺☺☺☺ this <Philip> get mad nap <Hix360> take your tier deck elsewhere <Philip> ez raged?
<System> Player Lost
Worst part is, the guy said ''im from mtgs'' LUL
You're asking for trouble when playing a tier 1 general in the first place. EDH is not solely about winning. If he was playing a more casual general, it's best you set aside Clique/Azami/Dagsson/Erayo/Zur.
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Vedalken AEthermage
1 Trinket Mage
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Mistbind Clique
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
Artifacts
1 Chrome Mox
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Pithing Needle
1 AEther Spellbomb
1 Grim Monolith
1 Sapphire Medallion
1 Mind Stone
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Sky Diamond
1 Vedalken Shackles
Counterspells
1 Pact of Negation
1 Condescend
1 Power Sink
1 Mana Leak
1 Remand
1 Impulse
1 Memory Lapse
1 Counterspell
1 Mana Drain
1 Sage's Dousing
1 Hinder
1 Forbid
1 Rewind
1 Dismiss
1 Last Word
1 Cryptic Command
1 Force of Will
1 Desertion
1 Brainstorm
1 Telling Time
1 Lat-Nam's Legacy
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Stroke of Genius
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Opportunity
Utility Spells
1 Vision Charm
1 Repeal
1 Boomerang
1 Capsize
1 Spin into Myth
1 Sunder
1 Evacuation
Tutors
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Intuition
Not Instants
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Standstill
1 Jace Beleren
1 Control Magic
1 Treachery
1 Tunnel Vision
Basic
18 Island
Shuffle Effects
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Polluted Delta
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Academy Ruins
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Tolaria West
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Faerie Conclave
1 Mutavault
1 Ice Floe
1 Maze of Ith
1 Dust Bowl
1 Wasteland
1 Strip Mine
Broken
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Tolarian Academy
*edit
Thanks for the info on how to fix the decklist. It was the numbering thing that was screwing everything up.
Anyway, i look forward to the discussions!
As for the deck itself, I was talking with Khymera about how the best Clique deck realistically never has to actually cast a spell on their own turn. I think if you just focus majorly on just counters and bounce... especially the bounce, most decks will just collapse without their general and the sight of an inevitable loss in seven turns.
I'll elaborate further on this tomorrow when I get the chance. Vendilion Clique is easily by far and away the best 1v1 general, and when built correctly and played as *** as it can possibly get, the vast majority of generals stand no remote chance of winning.
What role do you play during your matches normally, control? Please give more detail on your play style.
-C.S. Lewis
EDH
Obzedat - Still Alive
Retired - Nicol Bolas
I would think having Disk and OStone to blow up the world as a just in case thing wouldn't be bad. Also, I hear recurring Mindslaver is backbreaking. Your general is very weak in the p/t, obviously, so you need to have a backup plan. Mox Diamond could be another card used to help push out a T2 Clique.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
1 Trinket Mage
1 Vedalken AEthermage
1 Willbender
1 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Mistbind Clique
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Sakashima the Impostor
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Arcanis the Omnipotent
1 Draining Whelk
1 Palinchron
Card Draw:
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Brainstorm
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Telling Time
1 Standstill
1 Impulse
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Careful Consideration
1 Opportunity
1 Stroke of Genius
Permission:
1 Mana Leak
1 Delay
1 Counterspell
1 Condescend
1 Power Sink
1 Remand
1 Mana Drain
1 Forbid
1 Hinder
1 Dream Fracture
1 Sage's Dousing
1 Rewind
1 Cryptic Command
1 Last Word
1 Dismiss
1 Desertion
1 Pact of Negation
1 Force of Will
1 Commandeer
1 Repeal
1 Vedalken Shackles
1 Treachery
1 Bribery
1 Evacuation
Ramps:
1 Mana Crypt
1 Sol Ring
1 Sapphire Medallion
Random Good spells:
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Pithing Needle
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Extraplanar Lens
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Time Warp
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
1 Tunnel Vision
Shuffle effects:
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Bad River
1 Flood Plain
Rampers:
1 Tolarian Academy
1 Thawing Glaciers
1 Ancient Tomb
Utility Lands:
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Academy Ruins
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Tolaria West
Forstandstill / Mistbind:
1 Mutavault
Creature tappers:
1 Maze of Ith
1 Ice Floe
Land Destruction:
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Dust Bowl
Synergize with TfK / Academy:
1 Seat of the Synod
19 Island
1 Vendilion Clique
Here is my multiplayer list:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=176240
Oh dear god, Sunder is an instant? I think it def. needs to be in.
But as for the bounce spells, I'm just not a fan. I agree, it can tempo the hell out of someone, but if you don't have more than 1 in hand, it will hardly be relevant, at least for the important matchups (I have rofellos in mind here). As for the other matchups, you won't even need it as you wreck anything that doesn't play blue or green.
For the tutor part, I think raw card draw is more important. And tutoring for a soercery isnt exciting. Neither is tutoring an instant at sorcery speed
Thank you, I've been toying it around for nearly six month now. But it's a shame, my local store doesn't want to host 1v1 tournaments so the deck isn't as good as it should be. But in 1v1, yea, you won't find a better list (core of the list I mean).
On a side note, I don't know if you guys notice, but there is a combo in the deck with palinchron / academy / lens. You can get infinite mana the second you have your 7th land with lens, or with 5 artifacts with tolarian academy. If it amuses you, you can more tutors to fetch up the parts and include memnarch or staff of domination to abuse it
@surging chaos
I tried the deck tag and it just put a list of my cards in the deck box thing, no tags. Maybe i need to add the quantities of the cards to fix it.
@kuvien
The win condition is definitely the big masta Clique. I plan on controlling the game and getting in there for 7 clique attacks.
@navy joe
I dont play mindslaver because im using the French ban list, which doesnt allow that amazing card. Good suggestion tho.
@ Voyager Silver
Are you talking about my list or were-wolf's? I think were-wolfs list is an awesome one! Personal tutor feels slow. I would opt for merchant scroll first because it fetches more things. Sunder is an awesome idea. I have thought about into the roil and may play test with it soon.
@were-wolf
Thanks for posting here. Your list is acutally were i started and have been making choices based on my playtesting and personal preference. I also think Clique is a strong general. The bounce is in there to EOT bounce a general and clique it away. I dont play a ton of it but some i feel is necessary. I wonder if Khymera is going to stop by here sometime. I would love his/her input as well. Sunder is a HOUSE. Now...what to take out.
Thanks again everyone for your comments! I have been having a bit of trouble with Rofellos. His mana accel is just insane. I may start running silver bullets for the green menace in the form of acid rain or threads of disloyalty. Discuss...
You can also try out Piracy charm if rofellos is too problematic. I Don't think they can afford to lose the base of the deck on turn 2 :P. And even if they recast it turn 4, you've already established yourself with the clique and the arsenal of counters you're using.
Can you link us to Khymera's list?
Standstill
Khymera championed the use of Vision Charm. it can:
A) Time walk a mono colour deck
B) Counter target "to top of deck" tutor.
C) Kill target Divining Top that has been put on top of library
D) Protect an artifact from removal or stall an opponent's Nev Disk.
I did some quick rudimentary testing against my Zur list here (bottom of page):
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=172846
Matchup seems pretty fair, to hard to tell if either is favored although I think clique is a little.
Some notes on your list, the curve seems a little high. I would have a hard look at you more expensive spells like Tezzeret and the amount of artifact acceleration you run to see if they are really necessary.
Bribery seems like a dead card in these matchups:
Zur
Arcum
5c Combo
Vendillion Clique
Oona combo
Any deck you mean? This card is about the most awesome card I've seen. Def. adding it.
What do you mean? are they supposed to be suggestions? If they do I already play standstill and I suppose cutting an island for mishra couldnt hurt... But tbh the only reason I play mutavault is caus its a faerie (mistbind), I don't think I'll ever kill someone with muta pings if I ever have standstill in play And anyways, they just make you draw 3 cards as soon as they untap regardless of what you have.
Bribing a teferi / dralnu into play will win you the game for certain; especially against decks that use permission as a main strategy. But in general, bribery is an awesome card even if it's useless against that one deck (zur). It can become handy against any decks...
Playing lands is more important than accelerating into an early threat. The deck curves out at 3 so even if you have one million mana accel turn one, you still can't play the clique because it recquires 1UU.
The only expensive spells are tezz / big coutners and those 2-4 creatures, I don't see what the problem is @ 39 lands
EDIT: Oh I just realised, what you said might not have been adressed to me correct me if im wrong
Re-read Vision charm, it only converts one 'type' of land into another, so it does nothing to non-dual land non-basics (double negative? lol) The card is still awesome tho.
I suppose Teferi is a viable target in most of those decks. Still, Bribery is a 5 mana sorcery speed win condition in a deck that doesn't really need one? It is stronger than I gave it credit for.
As for your list Were,
Extraplanar Lens / Palichorn, is this really needed? What about replacing Lens with Expedition Map and Temple of the False God? It sill goes infinite with Palichorn and has more utility outside of the combo (able to fetch academy, strip mine etc)
Tezzeret - Using the french banlist (without Crypt, Sol Ring or Crucible) does he really do enough for this deck? Scepter, Jitte and Needle are his only good targets left.
If I'm not mistaken you need 11 mana off of 7 lands just to sustain infinite storm.
Thanks for the reply. I have actually been trimming the fat a lot lately in order to streamline the deck. I see what you mean about bribery and tezzeret. They were both on the chopping block already. Maybe i'll try taking them out and playing the two charms. I definitely want to be playing all my spells on my opponents turn as much as humanly possible. I dont run a lot of artifact accel because tapping out for accelerants in the early turns can be bad if i really need to counter something. Also, this deck loves its colored mana so running accelerants that tap for colorless need to be kept at a minimum i think. I tried standstill and i felt that it is so so. If my opponent has a better board position they will just sit on it and beat me down. I removed it because i felt that it was a little situational. Id like all my cards to be good at all times. Except for the ones that i may play for certain inherantly bad matchups.
Standstill effectively reads:
Standstill 1U
Sorcery
Play only if Vendillion Clique is in play, and only if your opponent has not effectively won the game already.
Draw three cards.
In summary, when is stanstill dead?:
-pre-clique
-opponent has a relevant (read: faster than clique) threat in play and you have no answers in hand (read: you have already lost the game).
Id say playing a card second only to ancestral recall is worth those blank periods.
tezz is to fetch isochron / needle. and im not using the french banned list as i dont live in france so...
Given that Tez's utility is greatly diminished by the bans, I question his worthiness.
Indeed. I see your point about tezzeret. Im greatly considering taking him out.
I know that standstill is strong in a deck that wants to draw/go but i have had many situations where i was in a bad position on board and it was a dead draw in my hand. The problem that i have with the card is the "only" statements. Its a good card dont get me wrong, but im trying to make sure all the cards i play are strong at all times, unless of course the card reads, "resolve this spell, win the game". i.e. tunnel vision.
Island is enchanting Extraplanar Lens now
Philip taps Island
Philip taps Island
Philip taps Dust Bowl
Philip plays Treachery from Hand
<Philip> float UU
<Philip> get mad nap
<Hix360> take your tier deck elsewhere
<Philip> ez raged?
Worst part is, the guy said ''im from mtgs'' LUL
You're asking for trouble when playing a tier 1 general in the first place. EDH is not solely about winning. If he was playing a more casual general, it's best you set aside Clique/Azami/Dagsson/Erayo/Zur.