Trent Mays, 17, and Ma’Lik Richmond, 16, appeared stunned by the ruling, weeping openly and uncontrollably.
Asked if they had anything to say, both apologized — to the victim, her parents and to their own parents.
Ma’Lik Richmond himself strode to the front of the court, speaking as he did, then falling into the arms of a court officer.
“Rape is a felony of the first degree in Ohio,” Judge Thomas Lipps said, reminding the court that they could have been tried in an adult court and “would be spending many years in prison.”
Lipps sentenced them to one year with a maximum period that could extend until they are both 21.
Richmond will serve a minimum of one year and Mays, a minimum of two.
“Both juveniles have been adjudicated delinquent by means of having committed a sexual offense,” he said — the equivalent of a guilty verdict in adult court.
Mays was handed the second sentence for having distributed naked photos of the victim.
But Ohio Attorney General Mike DeWine said in a dramatic press conference following the verdict that the state’s investigation is not over — that he will take the extraordinary step of seeking to convene a grand jury to go deeper into what happened on the night of Aug. 11 and the morning of Aug. 12.
At least 16 people refused to speak to police during the investigation, he said. They will now likely be compelled to appear before a grand jury. And more indictments and more charges “could” come, he warned.
Interesting that the coverup and the town's alleged corruption is coming under more intense scrutiny. I think a lot of people watching the coverage of the case suspected that there was an attempt by adults in Steubenville to make this go away for the boys and that their status as football players was helping them be protected from the consequences of their actions. I remember reading accounts from former Steubenville residents not long after news broke that Anonymous had taken this case on as a pet project, and the former residents all admitted that football players would often get special treatment, up to and including blind eyes when they broke the law.
In the meantime, though the sentences seem a bit lenient, I'm glad the boys were at least found guilty.
There's not much more that could have been done so long as they were tried as juveniles, and frankly I think the ethics of trying teenagers as adults (no matter what the crime) are a little questionable.
Good to hear justice prevailed this time.
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There's not much more that could have been done so long as they were tried as juveniles, and frankly I think the ethics of trying teenagers as adults (no matter what the crime) are a little questionable.
I'm a lot less concerned about trying teens as adults in cases like this, but I mostly just meant the prison terms given and such. Maybe it's my cynicism when it comes to the legal system, but I can see the boys back on the street in months not years while the victim is probably going to have to move out of town (there were reports some time ago about how she was facing a bit of social pressure at school and around town, and if Steubenville's climate is as it's been indicated, I can certainly see the town making the victim uncomfortable). I just don't feel that it's fair given what happened. And perhaps there are legal limitations I'm not aware of, but the punishments could have been harsher and I would have been glad for it.
So they rape a girl, and they get at most 5 years in prison? I find that is insulting to the crime they committed.
I guess that's why you're not a legal expert.
Everyone tried was a juvenile and was drunk during the crime. I'm not defending rape but it's not like we personally have all the facts regarding the nature of the intercourse. Keep in mind media sensationalism and who knows whats really going on here.
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Those kids aren't psychopaths - they just made incredibly poor decisions. But that's the situation for virtually everyone convicted of a crime. We want to believe people who commit these acts are monsters, but they aren't. It doesn't mean we should throw them a pity parade, either.
Everyone tried was a juvenile and was drunk during the crime. I'm not defending rape but it's not like we personally have all the facts regarding the nature of the intercourse. Keep in mind media sensationalism and who knows whats really going on here.
Actually, we do know the details. They digitally (finger) penetrated her on two occasions in two different locations. There were other sex acts, but those instances were the cause of the rape verdict. That's not sensationalism, those are facts, at least as far as the court case goes.
Everyone being drunk has nothing to do with it. We don't let drunk drivers off because they made bad decisions while drunk and ended up killing someone.
Everyone being drunk has nothing to do with it. We don't let drunk drivers off because they made bad decisions while drunk and ended up killing someone.
We don't let them off but they get lighter sentences vs someone who commits Murder 2. We view the drunk driver as more capable of rehabilitation. The length of the sentence topic at hand.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
I find how the media is handling the coverage pretty rough. They are painting the boys, almost as victims- their young lives ruined, which while possibly true, that girl they raped has a pretty screwed life too.
Those kids aren't psychopaths - they just made incredibly poor decisions. But that's the situation for virtually everyone convicted of a crime. We want to believe people who commit these acts are monsters, but they aren't. It doesn't mean we should throw them a pity parade, either.
To sexually abuse someone is beyond a 'poor decision'. It's a conscious act of hurting and inflicting pain upon other people.
I would call for a harsher punishment. In my opinion this is considerably more grave then stealing or mugger. And people get more time in prison for that.
Adults. Adults get more time, these were still teenagers. Whether it should ever be acceptable to try teenagers as adults is still up in the air, we can't just do it because our gut tells us the crime is particularly heinous. The point of sentencing isn't revenge.
We don't let them off but they get lighter sentences vs someone who commits Murder 2. We view the drunk driver as more capable of rehabilitation. The length of the sentence topic at hand.
While that is true, the murder example was only to illustrate fault, not sentencing guidelines. Obviously there are major differences. In this case they'll be out by the time they are old enough to drink, probably sooner as they'll be eligible for parole, and I doubt they'll be considered dangers to society. So out by 19 or 20, having been charged as juveniles and going to a juvenile detention facility, with their High School Diplomas, and fully capable of at least getting into a community college. Not exactly hard time.
To sexually abuse someone is beyond a 'poor decision'. It's a conscious act of hurting and inflicting pain upon other people.
I would call for a harsher punishment. In my opinion this is considerably more grave then stealing or mugger. And people get more time in prison for that.
Don't mistake me, I called it a 'poor decision' in the same vein I would call getting behind the wheel of a car while drunk a 'poor decision'. I was trying to illustrate the point that these kids aren't monsters and we'd wish they were, but I do think they deserve their punishment.
I'm actually very intrigued to hear about the next level of events here. With all the adult covering up and refusing to testify, if they are FORCED to testify in front of a grand jury or risk being sent to jail themselves, we'll see if this small town values it's football team over their own freedom.
I'm actually very intrigued to hear about the next level of events here. With all the adult covering up and refusing to testify, if they are FORCED to testify in front of a grand jury or risk being sent to jail themselves, we'll see if this small town values it's football team over their own freedom.
I'm curious about this too, I would like to see what choices they would make.
Juvenile records are usually sealed when the kids reach adulthood, and juvenile defendants' names are not normally revealed by the press. Because of that, juvenile crimes are (relatively) easy to get past. In this case, these kids will NEVER get past this. They will have trouble getting jobs. They will have trouble getting into a college. They will have trouble with just about everything. They will carry this stigma for life, and Google searches will ensure they never live it down.
I think the owners of the houses where they were partying at are going to have some serious explaining to do. If the town turns out to be like Penn State, where the football program truly dominates everything and the football coach is the de facto leader, then a lot of people are going to end up hurting.
I hate the idea of anything taking over a town/school/whatever. If the Penn State Message wasn't enough, maybe this will help people learn that no team should be bigger than the place they live.
Does anyone know why their names were released in the first place? Were the names leaked by Anonymous, and once they were out, they were out?
Those kids aren't psychopaths - they just made incredibly poor decisions.
Ehhh, having one last shot that leads to vomiting is an incredibly poor decision. Cheating on the SATs is an incredibly poor decision. Sexually assaulting an unconscious girl over the course of hours and in multiple locations, publicizing it over social media, urinated on her and then continued to joke on video about what they had done along with the rest of their self-proclaimed 'rape crew' - that is far beyond just an incredibly poor decision. It's borderline sociopathic behavior. Even when the verdict was read and one of the rapists apologized, it was literally only for spreading the videos of the rape and getting caught, not for actually raping someone. The degree of apathy and disrespect towards another human being in this case horrifies me. They didn't just violate her, they systematically humiliated her purposefully.
Another wrinkle is emerging from this story: multiple news sources are now criticizing major news sources like CNN for their soft touch reporting this case. Many are upset by the sympathetic slant the reporting is giving to the rapists.
I didn't pay much attention to this case. Is it true that the boys were drunk as well as the girl?
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Ehhh, having one last shot that leads to vomiting is an incredibly poor decision. Cheating on the SATs is an incredibly poor decision. Sexually assaulting an unconscious girl over the course of hours and in multiple locations, publicizing it over social media, urinated on her and then continued to joke on video about what they had done along with the rest of their self-proclaimed 'rape crew' - that is far beyond just an incredibly poor decision. It's borderline sociopathic behavior. Even when the verdict was read and one of the rapists apologized, it was literally only for spreading the videos of the rape and getting caught, not for actually raping someone. The degree of apathy and disrespect towards another human being in this case horrifies me. They didn't just violate her, they systematically humiliated her purposefully.
Oh, I didn't know about that stuff. That's certainly different.
Another wrinkle is emerging from this story: multiple news sources are now criticizing major news sources like CNN for their soft touch reporting this case. Many are upset by the sympathetic slant the reporting is giving to the rapists.
Thoughts?
Only, saw Pierce Morgan on CNN and that's not even close to the reaction. Nothing even remotely closes to a sympathetic slant. One of the boys father was in denial and the defense attorney was doing what defense attorneys do. But i keep hearing from the media the kids got off to easy.
The boys are human beings with lots of problems not subhuman monsters. Not surprising Ms. Foundation would report this stuff with a blatantly false slant considering that Ms. Foundation is a hate group after all.
Here are some comments from Ms. Magazine current/past employees.
“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor
“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” -Valerie Solanas
Don't take the quote mining of Ms. foundation/mag seriously. It's radical feminist garbage.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
Ehhh, having one last shot that leads to vomiting is an incredibly poor decision. Cheating on the SATs is an incredibly poor decision. Sexually assaulting an unconscious girl over the course of hours and in multiple locations, publicizing it over social media, urinated on her and then continued to joke on video about what they had done along with the rest of their self-proclaimed 'rape crew' - that is far beyond just an incredibly poor decision. It's borderline sociopathic behavior. Even when the verdict was read and one of the rapists apologized, it was literally only for spreading the videos of the rape and getting caught, not for actually raping someone. The degree of apathy and disrespect towards another human being in this case horrifies me. They didn't just violate her, they systematically humiliated her purposefully.
QFT. I've seen and heard a lot of sympathy for the rapists in the last couple days and it makes me sick. They spoke about this case for an hour on NPR this morning and there were actually people saying it wasn't rape because they used their fingers instead of their genitals. That kind of reasoning is absurd and infuriates me to no end. I have no reason to believe they won't do this type of thing again when they get out and IMO these kids are getting off way too light. If that was my daughter I'd be the one going to jail because those kids would be in the morgue (I'm not advocating violence or revenge here, I just know myself and how I'd react if it were my daughter...or any female I love for that matter). I think 4 or 5 year sentences are much too soft for this heinous of a crime. These kids are sociopaths, it's pretty obvious.
Only, saw Pierce Morgan on CNN and that's not even close to the reaction. Nothing even remotely closes to a sympathetic slant. One of the boys father was in denial and the defense attorney was doing what defense attorneys do. But i keep hearing from the media the kids got off to easy.
I understand your feelings, but that critique is quite an overreaction. Most of these things are just facts being reported, which, unless I'm mistaken, is actually the job of the media (e.g., the parties were booze-fueled, the defendants will have to register as sex offenders, etc.)
Their "good records" relate to the horror of the idea that kids without prior offenses could commit such crimes.
Then there's the interpretation/mind-reading stuff (e.g., 'speaks as though they are brave for apologizing').
The "Candy makes a passing mention of the actual victim," is pretty much nonsense, since you're not supposed to talk about underage victims in this way.
But then, of course, consider the source... the real victim is this particular teenage girl, not some uninvolved party's feminist sensibilities re: news media.
Let me define what i mean by sympathetic media coverage in this case. I would say if the coverage made the boys look like the victims that would be sympathetic to them. Does the coverage so them some sympathy? Yes of course it did and should, very little but still some. Has it been sympathetic" not even close. They're human beings that need help and made mistakes. Stop acting like these teens are Ted Bundy FFS. Gonna take a stab and say you're actually mad about the light sentences these teens got or the case in general taking your anger out on the media.
Although it's kinda funny that people used to be mad because the news talked to much about rape victims in media coverage of these cases But are now mad they didn't talk enough about this rape victim. You just can't win with these people.
"I have no idea what it's like not to be a straight white male, and the experiences of others are irrelevant." -Conservative Motto
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
It isn't just what you say it is how you say it. The "promising careers" of the rapists are not relevant, nor is the fact that one of them cried or was told by his dad that he loves him, nor is the lasting effect on them and how they are designated as sex offenders.
Let me define what i mean by sympathetic media coverage in this case. I would say if the coverage made the boys look like the victims that would be sympathetic to them. Does the coverage so them some sympathy? Yes of course it did and should, very little but still some. Has it been sympathetic" not even close. They're human beings that need help and made mistakes. Stop acting like these teens are Ted Bundy FFS. Gonna take a stab and say you're actually mad about the light sentences these teens got or the case in general taking your anger out on the media.
Although it's kinda funny that people used to be mad because the news talked to much about rape victims in media coverage of these cases But are now mad they didn't talk enough about this rape victim. You just can't win with these people.
http://youtu.be/W1oahqCzwcY If you can watch that video and still be so sympathetic for them then I really just don't know what to say because you are living in a different reality.
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Interesting that the coverup and the town's alleged corruption is coming under more intense scrutiny. I think a lot of people watching the coverage of the case suspected that there was an attempt by adults in Steubenville to make this go away for the boys and that their status as football players was helping them be protected from the consequences of their actions. I remember reading accounts from former Steubenville residents not long after news broke that Anonymous had taken this case on as a pet project, and the former residents all admitted that football players would often get special treatment, up to and including blind eyes when they broke the law.
In the meantime, though the sentences seem a bit lenient, I'm glad the boys were at least found guilty.
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There's not much more that could have been done so long as they were tried as juveniles, and frankly I think the ethics of trying teenagers as adults (no matter what the crime) are a little questionable.
Good to hear justice prevailed this time.
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I'm a lot less concerned about trying teens as adults in cases like this, but I mostly just meant the prison terms given and such. Maybe it's my cynicism when it comes to the legal system, but I can see the boys back on the street in months not years while the victim is probably going to have to move out of town (there were reports some time ago about how she was facing a bit of social pressure at school and around town, and if Steubenville's climate is as it's been indicated, I can certainly see the town making the victim uncomfortable). I just don't feel that it's fair given what happened. And perhaps there are legal limitations I'm not aware of, but the punishments could have been harsher and I would have been glad for it.
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I guess that's why you're not a legal expert.
Everyone tried was a juvenile and was drunk during the crime. I'm not defending rape but it's not like we personally have all the facts regarding the nature of the intercourse. Keep in mind media sensationalism and who knows whats really going on here.
Actually, we do know the details. They digitally (finger) penetrated her on two occasions in two different locations. There were other sex acts, but those instances were the cause of the rape verdict. That's not sensationalism, those are facts, at least as far as the court case goes.
Everyone being drunk has nothing to do with it. We don't let drunk drivers off because they made bad decisions while drunk and ended up killing someone.
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We don't let them off but they get lighter sentences vs someone who commits Murder 2. We view the drunk driver as more capable of rehabilitation. The length of the sentence topic at hand.
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To sexually abuse someone is beyond a 'poor decision'. It's a conscious act of hurting and inflicting pain upon other people.
I would call for a harsher punishment. In my opinion this is considerably more grave then stealing or mugger. And people get more time in prison for that.
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Adults. Adults get more time, these were still teenagers. Whether it should ever be acceptable to try teenagers as adults is still up in the air, we can't just do it because our gut tells us the crime is particularly heinous. The point of sentencing isn't revenge.
While that is true, the murder example was only to illustrate fault, not sentencing guidelines. Obviously there are major differences. In this case they'll be out by the time they are old enough to drink, probably sooner as they'll be eligible for parole, and I doubt they'll be considered dangers to society. So out by 19 or 20, having been charged as juveniles and going to a juvenile detention facility, with their High School Diplomas, and fully capable of at least getting into a community college. Not exactly hard time.
Don't mistake me, I called it a 'poor decision' in the same vein I would call getting behind the wheel of a car while drunk a 'poor decision'. I was trying to illustrate the point that these kids aren't monsters and we'd wish they were, but I do think they deserve their punishment.
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I'm curious about this too, I would like to see what choices they would make.
I think the owners of the houses where they were partying at are going to have some serious explaining to do. If the town turns out to be like Penn State, where the football program truly dominates everything and the football coach is the de facto leader, then a lot of people are going to end up hurting.
I hate the idea of anything taking over a town/school/whatever. If the Penn State Message wasn't enough, maybe this will help people learn that no team should be bigger than the place they live.
Does anyone know why their names were released in the first place? Were the names leaked by Anonymous, and once they were out, they were out?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=557874
Ehhh, having one last shot that leads to vomiting is an incredibly poor decision. Cheating on the SATs is an incredibly poor decision. Sexually assaulting an unconscious girl over the course of hours and in multiple locations, publicizing it over social media, urinated on her and then continued to joke on video about what they had done along with the rest of their self-proclaimed 'rape crew' - that is far beyond just an incredibly poor decision. It's borderline sociopathic behavior. Even when the verdict was read and one of the rapists apologized, it was literally only for spreading the videos of the rape and getting caught, not for actually raping someone. The degree of apathy and disrespect towards another human being in this case horrifies me. They didn't just violate her, they systematically humiliated her purposefully.
Another wrinkle is emerging from this story: multiple news sources are now criticizing major news sources like CNN for their soft touch reporting this case. Many are upset by the sympathetic slant the reporting is giving to the rapists.
Thoughts?
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Fracture: Israfiel (WBR), Wujal (URG), Valedon (GUB), Amduat (BGW), Paladris (RWU)
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Katingal: Plane of Chains
Oh, I didn't know about that stuff. That's certainly different.
Only, saw Pierce Morgan on CNN and that's not even close to the reaction. Nothing even remotely closes to a sympathetic slant. One of the boys father was in denial and the defense attorney was doing what defense attorneys do. But i keep hearing from the media the kids got off to easy.
The boys are human beings with lots of problems not subhuman monsters. Not surprising Ms. Foundation would report this stuff with a blatantly false slant considering that Ms. Foundation is a hate group after all.
Here are some comments from Ms. Magazine current/past employees.
“I feel that ‘man-hating’ is an honourable and viable political act, that the oppressed have a right to class-hatred against the class that is oppressing them.” – Robin Morgan, Ms. Magazine Editor
“To call a man an animal is to flatter him; he’s a machine, a walking dildo.” -Valerie Solanas
Don't take the quote mining of Ms. foundation/mag seriously. It's radical feminist garbage.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
QFT. I've seen and heard a lot of sympathy for the rapists in the last couple days and it makes me sick. They spoke about this case for an hour on NPR this morning and there were actually people saying it wasn't rape because they used their fingers instead of their genitals. That kind of reasoning is absurd and infuriates me to no end. I have no reason to believe they won't do this type of thing again when they get out and IMO these kids are getting off way too light. If that was my daughter I'd be the one going to jail because those kids would be in the morgue (I'm not advocating violence or revenge here, I just know myself and how I'd react if it were my daughter...or any female I love for that matter). I think 4 or 5 year sentences are much too soft for this heinous of a crime. These kids are sociopaths, it's pretty obvious.
http://www.upworthy.com/cnn-pays-touching-tribute-to-the-rapists-who-attacked-a-16-year-old-girl?g=2&c=o98 Seriously watch that video and look at how much of a sympathetic light they put the rapist in.
I understand your feelings, but that critique is quite an overreaction. Most of these things are just facts being reported, which, unless I'm mistaken, is actually the job of the media (e.g., the parties were booze-fueled, the defendants will have to register as sex offenders, etc.)
Their "good records" relate to the horror of the idea that kids without prior offenses could commit such crimes.
Then there's the interpretation/mind-reading stuff (e.g., 'speaks as though they are brave for apologizing').
The "Candy makes a passing mention of the actual victim," is pretty much nonsense, since you're not supposed to talk about underage victims in this way.
But then, of course, consider the source... the real victim is this particular teenage girl, not some uninvolved party's feminist sensibilities re: news media.
Let me define what i mean by sympathetic media coverage in this case. I would say if the coverage made the boys look like the victims that would be sympathetic to them. Does the coverage so them some sympathy? Yes of course it did and should, very little but still some. Has it been sympathetic" not even close. They're human beings that need help and made mistakes. Stop acting like these teens are Ted Bundy FFS. Gonna take a stab and say you're actually mad about the light sentences these teens got or the case in general taking your anger out on the media.
Although it's kinda funny that people used to be mad because the news talked to much about rape victims in media coverage of these cases But are now mad they didn't talk enough about this rape victim. You just can't win with these people.
Flame infraction. - Blinking Spirit
Calling someone a Commie is flaming and must be stopped, but turning the word Conservative into a loaded pejorative and using it over and over again is perfectly acceptable.
http://youtu.be/W1oahqCzwcY If you can watch that video and still be so sympathetic for them then I really just don't know what to say because you are living in a different reality.