Hello friends, I've been watching a lot of videos of people playing Junk Rites decks, and I'm having trouble understanding a small part of the strategy. I've seen many players cast Grisly Salvage at the end of their opponent's turn, which, in general, I understand is useful if they're tapped out. But in some of the videos the opponent has all of their mana up and Grisly Salvage is still cast on their opponent's turn, which is presumably to conserve mana on their turn.
My question is what are the benefits and drawbacks of an EoT Grisly Salvage as opposed to a Main Phase Grisly Salvage? An example of my confusion can be seen at 26:00 into this video.
Hello friends, I've been watching a lot of videos of people playing Junk Rites decks, and I'm having trouble understanding a small part of the strategy. I've seen many players cast Grisly Salvage at the end of their opponent's turn, which, in general, I understand is useful if they're tapped out. But in some of the videos the opponent has all of their mana up and Grisly Salvage is still cast on their opponent's turn, which is presumably to conserve mana on their turn.
My question is what are the benefits and drawbacks of an EoT Grisly Salvage as opposed to a Main Phase Grisly Salvage? An example of my confusion can be seen at 26:00 into this video.
You cast it EoT because it's an instant and it makes sense to use mana before untapping? What benefit would you have by using your main phase to cast an instant unless you are short on land?
Hello friends, I've been watching a lot of videos of people playing Junk Rites decks, and I'm having trouble understanding a small part of the strategy. I've seen many players cast Grisly Salvage at the end of their opponent's turn, which, in general, I understand is useful if they're tapped out. But in some of the videos the opponent has all of their mana up and Grisly Salvage is still cast on their opponent's turn, which is presumably to conserve mana on their turn.
My question is what are the benefits and drawbacks of an EoT Grisly Salvage as opposed to a Main Phase Grisly Salvage? An example of my confusion can be seen at 26:00 into this video.
It is just good practice to leave mana untapped. It's why you see blue decks cast Think Twice or Sphinx's Revelation end of turn. They leave countermagic up, if they don't counter anything they can cast their draw spells eot instead.
Your opponent will also have to consider that you might have Abrupt Decay, Selesnya Charm, or Golgari Charm with 2 mana up during their turn.
Its just as you've stated. It's typically better to play your spells during an opponents end phase. By not playing the spell during your turn you are able to respond to combat with kill spells or respond to other situations according to what you have in hand and what they have in play.
Its the same situation for control. I play grixis currently. If I have forbidden alchemy in hand I don't cast until my opponent has moved to their end phase because I want to be able to respond to a creature with devour flesh or may want to cast counterflux.
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Not playing much these days... hope all is well in the MtG community
EDH:
Zur, The Enchanter
Modern:
Burn
Legacy:
Cheeri0s
Burn
The general rule is to cast your instants at the last possible moment, so that you have the most information available to you. In the video you showed, the player should probably have cast the Grisly Salvage on his own turn two, because he knew his opponent had Negate in his deck, and he verbally announced his blunder. It's not the "wrong" play, because it did one for one a card out of his opponents hand. It's most likely not the best line though.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
Better question; When is it appropriate to mainphase grisely salvage?
Usually when you can salvage and reanimate in the same turn or when you're trying to hit a land drop.
Otherwise, you usually want to leave the mana open so that you can be representing restoration angel mana.
This.
I've done main phase Grisly Salvage plenty of times, but it's in the mid to late game only. If there's nothing you could possibly get from a Grisly Salvage, then it's best used as an Instant.
Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Better question; When is it appropriate to mainphase grisly salvage?
Broadly, two categories:
1. When the cards you see may impact your plays for the turn.
This includes land sequencing; say its turn 3 and you do have a sunpetal grove, but no fourth land. Casting the salvage may well find you a shockland and then you play it immediately, saving you 2 life on the alternative if you need four lands untapped next turn.
2. When you don't want it countered.
As seen in the video. It's worth noting that if you do want it countered, this argument reverses itself. Say the Junk Rites player in the video had a t3 liliana of the veil follow-up (unlikely I know, but it makes the point well). Then baiting the negate might just outright win the game.
Apart from those, you may as well bluff one of the charms or abrupt decay. And sometimes you'll actually have those cards!
Playing an eot grisely salvage is holding out to the last possible moment on indicating your line of play to the opponent. They dont' know if you are using removal and they may not know you are playing rites either at that point game 1. Against blue it also baits a counter, if they use one on an eot gristly salvage they are giving you an opportunity to resolve something on your turn.
The exception is to play it mainphase which you should only do if you are digging for something that will immediately impact how you play your turn. Or if you are entirely dependent on salvage you may want to play it on your turn against blue when they eot tap out for a draw effect.
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My question is what are the benefits and drawbacks of an EoT Grisly Salvage as opposed to a Main Phase Grisly Salvage? An example of my confusion can be seen at 26:00 into this video.
You cast it EoT because it's an instant and it makes sense to use mana before untapping? What benefit would you have by using your main phase to cast an instant unless you are short on land?
It is just good practice to leave mana untapped. It's why you see blue decks cast Think Twice or Sphinx's Revelation end of turn. They leave countermagic up, if they don't counter anything they can cast their draw spells eot instead.
Your opponent will also have to consider that you might have Abrupt Decay, Selesnya Charm, or Golgari Charm with 2 mana up during their turn.
Its the same situation for control. I play grixis currently. If I have forbidden alchemy in hand I don't cast until my opponent has moved to their end phase because I want to be able to respond to a creature with devour flesh or may want to cast counterflux.
EDH:
Zur, The Enchanter
Modern:
Burn
Legacy:
Cheeri0s
Burn
Usually when you can salvage and reanimate in the same turn or when you're trying to hit a land drop.
Otherwise, you usually want to leave the mana open so that you can be representing restoration angel mana.
There are a lot of situations to answer that question. You could be at 3 lands and want to Salvage main phase to try and find a mana dork.
This.
I've done main phase Grisly Salvage plenty of times, but it's in the mid to late game only. If there's nothing you could possibly get from a Grisly Salvage, then it's best used as an Instant.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Broadly, two categories:
1. When the cards you see may impact your plays for the turn.
This includes land sequencing; say its turn 3 and you do have a sunpetal grove, but no fourth land. Casting the salvage may well find you a shockland and then you play it immediately, saving you 2 life on the alternative if you need four lands untapped next turn.
2. When you don't want it countered.
As seen in the video. It's worth noting that if you do want it countered, this argument reverses itself. Say the Junk Rites player in the video had a t3 liliana of the veil follow-up (unlikely I know, but it makes the point well). Then baiting the negate might just outright win the game.
Apart from those, you may as well bluff one of the charms or abrupt decay. And sometimes you'll actually have those cards!
2011-2012:Bantblade, BantPod
2010-2011:Bant Shaman, Naya Shaman, Naya allies + Scars, URG Turboforce
2009-2010:Naya allies, Mono-White Titan Control
The exception is to play it mainphase which you should only do if you are digging for something that will immediately impact how you play your turn. Or if you are entirely dependent on salvage you may want to play it on your turn against blue when they eot tap out for a draw effect.