So, this is basically a silly little B/U/G selfmill i threw together. Have been playing for a while, but mostly draft and casual play. Have been interested in getting into standard, but don't want to get too involved before the next rotation. I always have enjoyed the mill aspect of the game, self or otherwise, so cobbled this up.
I'm basically trying for it to be an aggressive deck with a very low curve, that can create rather large creatures relatively quickly. Keep in mind, this is still a very very rough list, and seeing as I dont really know the metagame in and out for standard, I havent even atttempted the sideboard.
I'd be very interested to see what people might suggest... I would love to hear what might be some other good spells to have in here (mostly looking for some good creatures, preferably ones that find their way into the bin with some sort of upside) or things to change. Like I said, very very new to standard, and fairly new to magic in general so go easy... Not looking for a crazy competitive deck, but something fun and reasonable.
Not sure on lots of things, like mulch or grisly, tragic slips, dimir charms, etc.... Should I be running forbidden alchemy instead of one of the two drops?
Would love to see if anyone could budgetize the mana base somewhat, or smooth it out or whatever. I will buy whatever shock lands i need etc, but if theres a way to do it without running playsets of all three of each, I'd love to hear it (avoiding gates and such if possible. with this curve, I really dont like taplands here. Probably no way around it with three colors.) I havent really sat down and really messed with the land base yet.
Sideboard options would be cool too... some sort of sac effect, like devour flesh? Are woodlot crawlers good in the board for B/U/x decks?
Anyways, heres the list as it stands. Also dont know how many lands to run in here. thats just sort of a placeholder number right now til I can get it figured out a little better.
I feel like there should be more creatures, so as to allow for the splinterfrights and wurms to be larger, but not sure what would fit in well and not just be a waste of a slot to fill up the yard.
**UPDATE**
Got it put together and did some testing on MTGO, just casual standard games. It pretty much stomps any other kitchen table deck, and gives some decently established decks a run for their money, and can pull out a win in pretty silly circumstances occasionally. I've updated the list a bit. I went with one more tragic slip, because I find that both the ability to kill mana dorks as well as trigger morbid off saccing the apprentice is really nice. Grisly salvage, thought scour, trackers instincts and the lotleth troll are all MVPs.
Grisly salvage can be used a (semi reliable) combat trick, that has won me the game a few times. Ive also used it and thought scour to save my guys from burn or combat. Lotleth troll can pitch grave crawlers to get a counter then resummon them, or use him as a combat trick to pitch guys to make him bigger while simultaneously pumping your spinterfrights and wurms. It's really a lot of fun, although its not quite as aggressive as I would like it to be. If anyone has any suggestions, let me know....
Pilfered Plans replaces it self +1 and mills target player. might cost 2 more but it is not a bad idea.
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Kekule_the_Magician on the inclusion of Devouring Light in a TurboFog Deck:
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As a person who typically plays very creature oriented decks, I HATE when an opponent has Devouring Light. It is infuriating to finally get through with a creature on to have it exiled.
I've come to hate White in general now because it gets everything to the point where it is almost unfair. White has boardwipes (Wrath of God, End Hostilities), targeted exile and removal (Devouring Light, Banishing Light, Last Breath), lifegain spells, lifelink, low cost/high power enchantments and auras, flying creatures; my goodness what don't they get!?
Pilfered Plans replaces it self +1 and mills target player. might cost 2 more but it is not a bad idea.
Yeah I've already replaced Thought Scour, but I haven't tested yet. Trying out a number of different things, including increased creature count of Elvish Visionaries, a singleton Ghoultree. Considering some sort of sac outlet... wasnt sure between bloodthrone vampire or undercity informer.... the informer can bin more creatures for me in the process of saccing, but bloodthrone can be used for combat trickiness, so idk. I'll have to mess around.
In the meanwhile, messing around with Rapid Hybridization. Seems like it could be almost like a charm for this deck - use it to kill a serious threat on their board, or use it as a surprise blocker binning a visionary or gravecrawler, or in response to removal etc. Idk, it could just be a dead card, I guess thats the fun of testing
Gnaw to the Bone is a absolutely fantastic way to put yourself out of reach with this deck. I ran a similar one for a long time. Also, Ghoultree can do work. Especially in tandem with Artful Dodge.
Gnaw to the Bone is a absolutely fantastic way to put yourself out of reach with this deck. I ran a similar one for a long time. Also, Ghoultree can do work. Especially in tandem with Artful Dodge.
Hadnt thought of gnaw to the bone, I should try it out. You're definitely right about the gravecrawlers, while nice for aggressive starts they dont really feel like they fit in. Would it be good to throw in a kessig cagebreakers along with ghoul? They seem pretty good. And yeah, I started using mulch. Right now im 2 mulch, 2 tracker, 2 salvage, and I've definitely found trackers and mulch to be the best, although grisly at instant speed has made for some pretty hilarious combat tricks and I like being able to end of turn it. What creatures should I put in in place of Gravecrawlers? Maybe bloodthrone vampires or something? I dont even know. Deathrite Shamans seem like they would be ok
Deathrite Shaman is a must have. I played a BGu self mill deck and he is most useful. Chances are, you are going to end up milling alot of your lands. He allows you to take advantage of them aand he acts as MB hate for reanimator (which is kind of a big deck right now). The 4 MB deathrites saved me so many times (life when I need it, works as a shock if I had nothing else left to do, mana accelerator, and had a decent body and easy to cast).
One other thing that you may want to look into is 1-2 copies of Jarad, Lick-lord of the Golgari. He is rather useful in that he can be cast from your yard, so if you mill him you really don't care to much and he can be brought back at a much more convienent time. He has obvious synergy with your yard and he acts as a sac outlet. Additionally, there will be many times where your Ghoultrees cannot force damage through (wall of blockers or something), so you can fling him to force that damage through.
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
both varolz and Jarad(linked above, and I'm lazy) would be great in your deck. They both get fuel out of splinterfright, and Ghoultree which is another heavy consideration to this deck. Not much your opponent can do when you just shoot them for 10 damage directly.
I'd drop the alchemist's apprentice since they are just a catch to the next card. There are better things you can do with your time than a 1/1 that replaces itself. Jarad can give your gravecrawlers another zombie to come back with, and you might run a couple of Slitherheads which either fuel boneyard and splinterfright, or can be used to up the power of something else.(off a lotleth troll that is always fun, it's 2 counters for the price of 1) If they do get in your hand, you can pop em on the field as a chump, but most of the time just try to land them in your gy.
On the spell front, I'd recommend Drown in Filth, it won't rotate soon, it helps with your self-mill, and occasionally kills something. Having tested it, I'd say it's better than it looks at first but requires a very specific deck to work in, one like yours.
I'd up the grisly salvage by one, it is singly the best self mill/search card for this deck currently, I'd drop an abrupt decay for the sideboard since it can be a dead card against some decks, and I'd try to fit in Forbidden Alchemy, although it also leaves the format soon. Finally there is some consideration to give increasing confusion, another card that you never have to put in your hand to fully utilize, and a great way to get a ton of cards in your gy.
Thanks for all the replies. I definitely need to get 3 more deathrites, only own one right now. I had considered varolz and jarad, and I think they would definitely be worth a try. Always good to have a sac outlet in this deck... I was worried that varolz would have to much negative interaction with my wurms/frights by exiling creatures, but it probably doesnt matter too much. Hadnt even thought of drown in filth... that's actually not a terrible idea at all. I could see it hitting for potentially quite a bit.
Varolz is actually pretty useful at the right times. For instance, with boneyard worm. Yes he reduces yoru creature count in yoru yard by 1 but , if played when you have alot of creatures in your yard, he can give a creature a rediculous amount of +1/+1 counters. This is very funny when you have things like Jarad and Lotleth Troll on the Battlefield. You can do things like:
1) Discard Boneyard worm to pump your troll.
2) Scavange your wurm to pump Troll again.
3) Swing with Lotleth Troll
4) Then fling your lotleth troll with jarad for hilarity.
Oh! And before I forget, it may not seem like it, but Lotleth Troll actually work alot in a GY sel-mill deck. He gives you a stupid persistent blocker, a early attacker (both of which are VERY important with the way the meta is), and he lets you dump creatures in your hand that are less useful at the given time (extra copies of yoru Jarad/Lotleth, mana dorks, Ghoultrees early game, ect.).
Some other cards to look into, Mind Grind/Increasing Confusion, Farseek, and Forbidden Alchemy. Forbidden Alchemy is essentially Grisly Salvage 5-8 except they dig deeper and they can grab anything. Farseek helps strip lands from your deck, give the ability to play around hate (often times I have actually played the more midrange game and depend on Lotleth Troll and Deathrite early and use Farseek to ramp into ghoultree or something to win games 2-3). Farseek can maybe also go in the side and be swapped with Mulch post board. Mind Grind and Increasing COnfusion essentially gives you a winning blow buff spell. When you want to close out your game you can cast one of those and just burn the rest of yoru deck to kill them in a singel blow.
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Varolz is actually pretty useful at the right times. For instance, with boneyard worm. Yes he reduces yoru creature count in yoru yard by 1 but , if played when you have alot of creatures in your yard, he can give a creature a rediculous amount of +1/+1 counters. This is very funny when you have things like Jarad and Lotleth Troll on the Battlefield. You can do things like:
1) Discard Boneyard worm to pump your troll.
2) Scavange your wurm to pump Troll again.
3) Swing with Lotleth Troll
4) Then fling your lotleth troll with jarad for hilarity.
Oh! And before I forget, it may not seem like it, but Lotleth Troll actually work alot in a GY sel-mill deck. He gives you a stupid persistent blocker, a early attacker (both of which are VERY important with the way the meta is), and he lets you dump creatures in your hand that are less useful at the given time (extra copies of yoru Jarad/Lotleth, mana dorks, Ghoultrees early game, ect.).
Some other cards to look into, Mind Grind/Increasing Confusion, Farseek, and Forbidden Alchemy. Forbidden Alchemy is essentially Grisly Salvage 5-8 except they dig deeper and they can grab anything. Farseek helps strip lands from your deck, give the ability to play around hate (often times I have actually played the more midrange game and depend on Lotleth Troll and Deathrite early and use Farseek to ramp into ghoultree or something to win games 2-3). Farseek can maybe also go in the side and be swapped with Mulch post board. Mind Grind and Increasing COnfusion essentially gives you a winning blow buff spell. When you want to close out your game you can cast one of those and just burn the rest of yoru deck to kill them in a singel blow.
Thanks for the advice. My sideboard definitely needs to be figured out, theres nothing in it right now. I figure ill replace the four gravecrawlers with 4 deathrite shamans, and I think I do want to try out forbidden alchemy, since the aspect of being able to grab any card is nice if i need a quick answer to a creature/enchantment/whatever. I'm at work right now, but tonight im gonna do some work on it and post the updated list, and see what kind of advice you guys can give. Im still not entirely sure on what to replace the alchemist's apprentices with, but I know varolz will definitely go in the deck. It's lacking solid three drop creatures, other than splinterfright, so he should be a good addition.
Thanks for the advice. My sideboard definitely needs to be figured out, theres nothing in it right now. I figure ill replace the four gravecrawlers with 4 deathrite shamans, and I think I do want to try out forbidden alchemy, since the aspect of being able to grab any card is nice if i need a quick answer to a creature/enchantment/whatever. I'm at work right now, but tonight im gonna do some work on it and post the updated list, and see what kind of advice you guys can give. Im still not entirely sure on what to replace the alchemist's apprentices with, but I know varolz will definitely go in the deck. It's lacking solid three drop creatures, other than splinterfright, so he should be a good addition.
Varolz also has a very nifty ability of regeneration which helps stem up aggro a bit, which is a very big deal.
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This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
I personally like Ghoultree in this deck if you are running enough zombies I'd suggest keeping Gravecrawler and possibly adding Grimgrin and I also like the idea of adding Valroz to this deck. You have me inspired to break out my Innistrad cards again and rebuild my self mill deck. I use to just run U/G but there is no reason why black can't and shouldn't be a part of this deck. I'll post a list later tonight when I dig all my cards out.
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I'm basically trying for it to be an aggressive deck with a very low curve, that can create rather large creatures relatively quickly. Keep in mind, this is still a very very rough list, and seeing as I dont really know the metagame in and out for standard, I havent even atttempted the sideboard.
I'd be very interested to see what people might suggest... I would love to hear what might be some other good spells to have in here (mostly looking for some good creatures, preferably ones that find their way into the bin with some sort of upside) or things to change. Like I said, very very new to standard, and fairly new to magic in general so go easy... Not looking for a crazy competitive deck, but something fun and reasonable.
Not sure on lots of things, like mulch or grisly, tragic slips, dimir charms, etc.... Should I be running forbidden alchemy instead of one of the two drops?
Would love to see if anyone could budgetize the mana base somewhat, or smooth it out or whatever. I will buy whatever shock lands i need etc, but if theres a way to do it without running playsets of all three of each, I'd love to hear it (avoiding gates and such if possible. with this curve, I really dont like taplands here. Probably no way around it with three colors.) I havent really sat down and really messed with the land base yet.
Sideboard options would be cool too... some sort of sac effect, like devour flesh? Are woodlot crawlers good in the board for B/U/x decks?
Anyways, heres the list as it stands. Also dont know how many lands to run in here. thats just sort of a placeholder number right now til I can get it figured out a little better.
BUG
4 Breeding Pool
3 Overgrown Tomb
3 Watery Grave
4 Hinterland Harbor
4 Woodland Cemetery
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Gravecrawler
4 Lotleth Troll
4 Boneyard Wurm
4 Alchemist's Apprentice
4 Splinterfright
4 Thought Scour
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Putrefy
3 Grisly Salvage
3 Tragic Slip
3 Tracker's Instincts
I feel like there should be more creatures, so as to allow for the splinterfrights and wurms to be larger, but not sure what would fit in well and not just be a waste of a slot to fill up the yard.
**UPDATE**
Got it put together and did some testing on MTGO, just casual standard games. It pretty much stomps any other kitchen table deck, and gives some decently established decks a run for their money, and can pull out a win in pretty silly circumstances occasionally. I've updated the list a bit. I went with one more tragic slip, because I find that both the ability to kill mana dorks as well as trigger morbid off saccing the apprentice is really nice. Grisly salvage, thought scour, trackers instincts and the lotleth troll are all MVPs.
Grisly salvage can be used a (semi reliable) combat trick, that has won me the game a few times. Ive also used it and thought scour to save my guys from burn or combat. Lotleth troll can pitch grave crawlers to get a counter then resummon them, or use him as a combat trick to pitch guys to make him bigger while simultaneously pumping your spinterfrights and wurms. It's really a lot of fun, although its not quite as aggressive as I would like it to be. If anyone has any suggestions, let me know....
Pilfered Plans replaces it self +1 and mills target player. might cost 2 more but it is not a bad idea.
Yeah I've already replaced Thought Scour, but I haven't tested yet. Trying out a number of different things, including increased creature count of Elvish Visionaries, a singleton Ghoultree. Considering some sort of sac outlet... wasnt sure between bloodthrone vampire or undercity informer.... the informer can bin more creatures for me in the process of saccing, but bloodthrone can be used for combat trickiness, so idk. I'll have to mess around.
In the meanwhile, messing around with Rapid Hybridization. Seems like it could be almost like a charm for this deck - use it to kill a serious threat on their board, or use it as a surprise blocker binning a visionary or gravecrawler, or in response to removal etc. Idk, it could just be a dead card, I guess thats the fun of testing
I'd remove the Gravecrawlers and Tragic Slips. Up the Tracker's Instincts to 4, and swap the Thought Scours for Mulches. Mulch with enough flashback/synergy for dead critters is almost a draw 4 and fix your mana. Pretty useful.
Good luck!
Hadnt thought of gnaw to the bone, I should try it out. You're definitely right about the gravecrawlers, while nice for aggressive starts they dont really feel like they fit in. Would it be good to throw in a kessig cagebreakers along with ghoul? They seem pretty good. And yeah, I started using mulch. Right now im 2 mulch, 2 tracker, 2 salvage, and I've definitely found trackers and mulch to be the best, although grisly at instant speed has made for some pretty hilarious combat tricks and I like being able to end of turn it. What creatures should I put in in place of Gravecrawlers? Maybe bloodthrone vampires or something? I dont even know. Deathrite Shamans seem like they would be ok
One other thing that you may want to look into is 1-2 copies of Jarad, Lick-lord of the Golgari. He is rather useful in that he can be cast from your yard, so if you mill him you really don't care to much and he can be brought back at a much more convienent time. He has obvious synergy with your yard and he acts as a sac outlet. Additionally, there will be many times where your Ghoultrees cannot force damage through (wall of blockers or something), so you can fling him to force that damage through.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
I'd drop the alchemist's apprentice since they are just a catch to the next card. There are better things you can do with your time than a 1/1 that replaces itself. Jarad can give your gravecrawlers another zombie to come back with, and you might run a couple of Slitherheads which either fuel boneyard and splinterfright, or can be used to up the power of something else.(off a lotleth troll that is always fun, it's 2 counters for the price of 1) If they do get in your hand, you can pop em on the field as a chump, but most of the time just try to land them in your gy.
On the spell front, I'd recommend Drown in Filth, it won't rotate soon, it helps with your self-mill, and occasionally kills something. Having tested it, I'd say it's better than it looks at first but requires a very specific deck to work in, one like yours.
I'd up the grisly salvage by one, it is singly the best self mill/search card for this deck currently, I'd drop an abrupt decay for the sideboard since it can be a dead card against some decks, and I'd try to fit in Forbidden Alchemy, although it also leaves the format soon. Finally there is some consideration to give increasing confusion, another card that you never have to put in your hand to fully utilize, and a great way to get a ton of cards in your gy.
Just a few thoughts.
RNA Standard: Grixis Midrange, Jund Deathwhirler, Sultai Vannifar
GRN Standard: Red Midrange, Mono-Blue Tempo, Wr Aggro, Gruul Experimental Dinosaurs, Sultai Midrange, Jeskai Midrange
Modern: Bant Spirits
Forcing a single archetype in all formats: too many colors, bad mana.
1) Discard Boneyard worm to pump your troll.
2) Scavange your wurm to pump Troll again.
3) Swing with Lotleth Troll
4) Then fling your lotleth troll with jarad for hilarity.
Oh! And before I forget, it may not seem like it, but Lotleth Troll actually work alot in a GY sel-mill deck. He gives you a stupid persistent blocker, a early attacker (both of which are VERY important with the way the meta is), and he lets you dump creatures in your hand that are less useful at the given time (extra copies of yoru Jarad/Lotleth, mana dorks, Ghoultrees early game, ect.).
Some other cards to look into, Mind Grind/Increasing Confusion, Farseek, and Forbidden Alchemy. Forbidden Alchemy is essentially Grisly Salvage 5-8 except they dig deeper and they can grab anything. Farseek helps strip lands from your deck, give the ability to play around hate (often times I have actually played the more midrange game and depend on Lotleth Troll and Deathrite early and use Farseek to ramp into ghoultree or something to win games 2-3). Farseek can maybe also go in the side and be swapped with Mulch post board. Mind Grind and Increasing COnfusion essentially gives you a winning blow buff spell. When you want to close out your game you can cast one of those and just burn the rest of yoru deck to kill them in a singel blow.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.
Thanks for the advice. My sideboard definitely needs to be figured out, theres nothing in it right now. I figure ill replace the four gravecrawlers with 4 deathrite shamans, and I think I do want to try out forbidden alchemy, since the aspect of being able to grab any card is nice if i need a quick answer to a creature/enchantment/whatever. I'm at work right now, but tonight im gonna do some work on it and post the updated list, and see what kind of advice you guys can give. Im still not entirely sure on what to replace the alchemist's apprentices with, but I know varolz will definitely go in the deck. It's lacking solid three drop creatures, other than splinterfright, so he should be a good addition.
Varolz also has a very nifty ability of regeneration which helps stem up aggro a bit, which is a very big deal.
This aint your girlfriends meta! This is a man's meta! TURBO META.