I'm developing a new Red/White deck (one of my first), and am hoping for some good input on what could make it better. The goal is to be able to hit fast and hard with creatures and burn spells while stalling the opponent from getting creatures out and in position.
If you want to hit fast and hard (with a side of burnage), it can be tough to stall your opponent. Or to put it another way, it's difficult to do both effectively, so you end up with a bit of a mash between the two.
I love, love, love Haste. That's why I adore Ash Zealot and Hellrider so much (plus, both do additional awesome things). I would also suggest taking a look at Legion Loyalist, who has an awesome Battalion ability that keeps tokens from blocking you.
Also, I think Aurelia is really cool, but if you want a true aggro deck, she isn't the best fit. If you haven't won by the time you can cast her, you may be in enough trouble that she won't help, either.
I guess the best advice is that if you physically have this deck, play the heck out of it and see where it takes you. Do you currently have all the cards in your list?
Hey I dont play this type of deck but ill give my advice as a long time magic player.
It seems you want a fast aggro deck with mix of burn for some extra reach, in which I would recommend these changes.
-4 Vexing Devil: card is a trap, plain and simple.
+4 Champion of the Parish: Will trigger a lot since you have a good amount of humans.
-2 Legions Initiative: Since most creatures are mono white the +1 defense isent worth it tbh.
-2 Silence: I can see the appeal of this card but in my own testing it is pretty lack luster.
+4 Boros Elite: this card just works in this kind of deck.
-1 Aurelia, the Warleader: Can be a good win-con but will most likely be win more and hard to cast.
-1 Chandra Pyromaster: I like this card, but hellrider will just bring more.
-2 Fiend Hunter: To slow when you could just burn their creatures instead.
+3 Hellrider: This card will finish games faster than you can say Boros.
-1 Aurelia's Fury: I just think this wont be useful for the X=3 your most likely going to get.
+1 Warleader's Helix: Good card is good as a 1-of and will blow out some aggro matchups.
well that took awhile but take my advice as you will lol just my .02
Thanks for all the advice!!! Some of it definitely makes sense, and I think I'm going to have to play the heck out of this deck and try things out (Yes I have the cards). A couple of questions I do have...
-Vexing Devil seems like an awesome card as on turn one it's either a 4/3 creature or the opponent takes 4 damage right off the bat. What makes it a trap? I must be missing something on it.
-The reason I have Legion's Initiative is more for it's ability to exile cards and bring them back. This does two things, the first obviously it removes any enchantments on creatures and can be activated before a spell goes off. The second is that it's basically a free vigilance card for all my creatures. I attack with my creatures and then exile them. They then come back into play at the beginning of the next attack phase (my opponent's) and can be used to block that turn. I guess my question is can it do as I described?
I've been back and forth Boros Elite, and Ash Zealot and it sounds like I should try and swap them in. Hellrider definitely sounds like it needs to be added in. Thanks for all the advice so far!!! What type of decks will this struggle against? Thanks!!!
-Vexing Devil seems like an awesome card as on turn one it's either a 4/3 creature or the opponent takes 4 damage right off the bat. What makes it a trap? I must be missing something on it.
I don't own any Vexing Devils, but the sentiment is that it will always be a one-shot, as if you play it in the first turn, your opponent will always take the four damage. 'Trap' refers to a 'rookie' mistake of thinking this is a good thing, but you don't gain any board presence. I've never played it, so I can't personally say how it's been bad for me. The odd thing is that it's still a ~$10 card, whereas Hellrider (who everyone who runs Rx aggro loves) has fallen to $2.50.
-The reason I have Legion's Initiative is more for it's ability to exile cards and bring them back. This does two things, the first obviously it removes any enchantments on creatures and can be activated before a spell goes off. The second is that it's basically a free vigilance card for all my creatures. I attack with my creatures and then exile them. They then come back into play at the beginning of the next attack phase (my opponent's) and can be used to block that turn. I guess my question is can it do as I described?
The biggest problem with Legion's Initiative is that on Turn 2 when you could play it, you should be playing creatures. Then comes Turn 3 where you need to be playing creatures and/or direct damage. Maybe Turn 4 you could get it and a creature out, but then on Turn 5 you need to keep mana open in order to use it.... Aggro is all about maximizing your mana usage, and you almost always have something you need to be doing before casting or exiling Legion's Initiative.
What type of decks will this struggle against? Thanks!!!
THIS ARTICLE, while pretty old, gives a little info on how to 'combat' aggro, which may be helpful. Struggling depends on your local meta and ultimately initial card draw. I've played a pretty aggressive Rakdos aggro deck and had good success against most of what I've played against (admittedly, I don't get to play Standard too often). It all depends on your opponent and how many turns they need to get on-line. That's why aggro tries so hard to deal a lethal amount of damage by turn 5 or so.
Thanks for all the advice!!! Some of it definitely makes sense, and I think I'm going to have to play the heck out of this deck and try things out (Yes I have the cards). A couple of questions I do have...
-Vexing Devil seems like an awesome card as on turn one it's either a 4/3 creature or the opponent takes 4 damage right off the bat. What makes it a trap? I must be missing something on it.
-The reason I have Legion's Initiative is more for it's ability to exile cards and bring them back. This does two things, the first obviously it removes any enchantments on creatures and can be activated before a spell goes off. The second is that it's basically a free vigilance card for all my creatures. I attack with my creatures and then exile them. They then come back into play at the beginning of the next attack phase (my opponent's) and can be used to block that turn. I guess my question is can it do as I described?
I've been back and forth Boros Elite, and Ash Zealot and it sounds like I should try and swap them in. Hellrider definitely sounds like it needs to be added in. Thanks for all the advice so far!!! What type of decks will this struggle against? Thanks!!!
Vexing is a trap because it will never do what you need it to do, early game you do 4 damage on turn one and you develop no board presence, and late game when you have them on the ropes at 6 life they will let him live and just deal/block with him.
Legions Initiative does do what you said but 4 mana to give you creatures surprise vigilance once is not that amazing as a play and you will find yourself only finding it useful in saving a key creature from removal in which a good opponent will do during the "declare attackers" step which will make you skip your attack. it can also be used to stop board wipes but that's why you have boros charm.
This deck will most likely struggle against a good Jund mid-range list since it will have lots of lifegain and LOTS or removal to just clear your board, and Esper/UWR control since their decks are designed to clear your field of potential threats and just slowly kill you as you cry.
4 Clifftop Retreat
4 Sacred Foundry
7 Mountain
8 Plains
Creatures (19)
4 Vexing Devil
2 Young Pyromancer
2 Imposing Sovereign
2 Fiend Hunter
4 Fiendslayer Paladin
4 Boros Reckoner
1 Aurelia, the Warleader
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Spells (17)
2 Silence
2 Pillar of Flame
4 Searing Spear
2 Legion's Initiative
4 Boros Charm
2 Mizzium Mortars
1 Aurelia's Fury
2 Mindsparker
4 Skullcrack
2 Ash Zealot
2 Shock
2 Volcanic Strength
1 Pithing Needle
2 Pillar of Flame
Any suggestions on what this deck might struggle against? Thanks!!!
Personally (and this is more my opinion rather than fact/what you should actually do), I would...
+ Ash Zealot (mainboard her)- Boros Charm
- Fiend Hunter + Boros Elite
- Vexing Devil + Hellrider
If you want to hit fast and hard (with a side of burnage), it can be tough to stall your opponent. Or to put it another way, it's difficult to do both effectively, so you end up with a bit of a mash between the two.
I love, love, love Haste. That's why I adore Ash Zealot and Hellrider so much (plus, both do additional awesome things). I would also suggest taking a look at Legion Loyalist, who has an awesome Battalion ability that keeps tokens from blocking you.
Also, I think Aurelia is really cool, but if you want a true aggro deck, she isn't the best fit. If you haven't won by the time you can cast her, you may be in enough trouble that she won't help, either.
I guess the best advice is that if you physically have this deck, play the heck out of it and see where it takes you. Do you currently have all the cards in your list?
It seems you want a fast aggro deck with mix of burn for some extra reach, in which I would recommend these changes.
-4 Vexing Devil: card is a trap, plain and simple.
+4 Champion of the Parish: Will trigger a lot since you have a good amount of humans.
-2 Legions Initiative: Since most creatures are mono white the +1 defense isent worth it tbh.
-2 Silence: I can see the appeal of this card but in my own testing it is pretty lack luster.
+4 Boros Elite: this card just works in this kind of deck.
-1 Aurelia, the Warleader: Can be a good win-con but will most likely be win more and hard to cast.
-1 Chandra Pyromaster: I like this card, but hellrider will just bring more.
-2 Fiend Hunter: To slow when you could just burn their creatures instead.
+3 Hellrider: This card will finish games faster than you can say Boros.
-1 Plains
+1 Young Pyromancer: Works well with the swarm theme.
-1 Fiendslayer Paladin
+1 Pillar of Flame: Does work against the meta atm.
-1 Aurelia's Fury: I just think this wont be useful for the X=3 your most likely going to get.
+1 Warleader's Helix: Good card is good as a 1-of and will blow out some aggro matchups.
well that took awhile but take my advice as you will lol just my .02
-Vexing Devil seems like an awesome card as on turn one it's either a 4/3 creature or the opponent takes 4 damage right off the bat. What makes it a trap? I must be missing something on it.
-The reason I have Legion's Initiative is more for it's ability to exile cards and bring them back. This does two things, the first obviously it removes any enchantments on creatures and can be activated before a spell goes off. The second is that it's basically a free vigilance card for all my creatures. I attack with my creatures and then exile them. They then come back into play at the beginning of the next attack phase (my opponent's) and can be used to block that turn. I guess my question is can it do as I described?
I've been back and forth Boros Elite, and Ash Zealot and it sounds like I should try and swap them in. Hellrider definitely sounds like it needs to be added in. Thanks for all the advice so far!!! What type of decks will this struggle against? Thanks!!!
I don't own any Vexing Devils, but the sentiment is that it will always be a one-shot, as if you play it in the first turn, your opponent will always take the four damage. 'Trap' refers to a 'rookie' mistake of thinking this is a good thing, but you don't gain any board presence. I've never played it, so I can't personally say how it's been bad for me. The odd thing is that it's still a ~$10 card, whereas Hellrider (who everyone who runs Rx aggro loves) has fallen to $2.50.
The biggest problem with Legion's Initiative is that on Turn 2 when you could play it, you should be playing creatures. Then comes Turn 3 where you need to be playing creatures and/or direct damage. Maybe Turn 4 you could get it and a creature out, but then on Turn 5 you need to keep mana open in order to use it.... Aggro is all about maximizing your mana usage, and you almost always have something you need to be doing before casting or exiling Legion's Initiative.
THIS ARTICLE, while pretty old, gives a little info on how to 'combat' aggro, which may be helpful. Struggling depends on your local meta and ultimately initial card draw. I've played a pretty aggressive Rakdos aggro deck and had good success against most of what I've played against (admittedly, I don't get to play Standard too often). It all depends on your opponent and how many turns they need to get on-line. That's why aggro tries so hard to deal a lethal amount of damage by turn 5 or so.
Vexing is a trap because it will never do what you need it to do, early game you do 4 damage on turn one and you develop no board presence, and late game when you have them on the ropes at 6 life they will let him live and just deal/block with him.
Legions Initiative does do what you said but 4 mana to give you creatures surprise vigilance once is not that amazing as a play and you will find yourself only finding it useful in saving a key creature from removal in which a good opponent will do during the "declare attackers" step which will make you skip your attack. it can also be used to stop board wipes but that's why you have boros charm.
This deck will most likely struggle against a good Jund mid-range list since it will have lots of lifegain and LOTS or removal to just clear your board, and Esper/UWR control since their decks are designed to clear your field of potential threats and just slowly kill you as you cry.