So this decklist is something I've been playing around with the past week, and I think it's turned out pretty well. I'm planning on taking it to standard in two weeks to give it a shot. It's all about the double strike/trample and getting stupid amounts of damage through very quickly.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I am quite aware that I need sublime archangel for this decklist.
Looks like a good decklist. I am underwhelmed in general by Grove of the Guardian. You may think to yourself, what does it matter? It gives me colorless and a potential game ender. I thought the same, but having it instead of colored land can cost you a game and it will almost NEVER win you a game. There's too many ways to work around it. You need five mana, AND the land, AND two untapped creatures. Too many times I was coming up one short. Then there is a plethora of bounce, at least in my meta.
I will be taking a very similar deck as yours to FNM. It is not yet complete and my list also needs some fixing but here are some of the different things I will be running on the mainboard:
Creatures
3 Thalia - We're mainly a creature based deck so I figured so is useful in slowing opponent's clock.
4 Strangelroot geist - fast and doesn't die
I will be running 4 Smiters, Silverhearts, and Militants on the mainboard. Spells
Revenge of the Hunted - I love this card, if you miracle it, it just ends the game even faster.
Looks pretty stock to me. Why not swap the garruk, primal hunter for Garruk Relentless. He'll clear small blockers and apply pressure in a similiar manner. Plus he costs less on your curve.
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Looks like a good decklist. I am underwhelmed in general by Grove of the Guardian. You may think to yourself, what does it matter? It gives me colorless and a potential game ender. I thought the same, but having it instead of colored land can cost you a game and it will almost NEVER win you a game. There's too many ways to work around it. You need five mana, AND the land, AND two untapped creatures. Too many times I was coming up one short. Then there is a plethora of bounce, at least in my meta.
Yeah, I hate grove of the guardian. It's been exceedingly underwhelming in testing, and every single time I've actually cast him he's just been bounced, like you said. I'm going to swap them out for Cathedral of War. Honestly if I'm going to be denied the correct mana it might as well be with something that's going to give me more of a boost.
Looks pretty stock to me. Why not swap the garruk, primal hunter for Garruk Relentless. He'll clear small blockers and apply pressure in a similiar manner. Plus he costs less on your curve.
Agreed, and Primal Hunter doesn't really add a lot to the deck other than just being a hoss. I'd rather use an Ajani/Garruk Relentless but regrettably, they're both huge in my local meta, and so no one wants to trade them.
I will be taking a very similar deck as yours to FNM. It is not yet complete and my list also needs some fixing but here are some of the different things I will be running on the mainboard:
Creatures
3 Thalia - We're mainly a creature based deck so I figured so is useful in slowing opponent's clock.
4 Strangelroot geist - fast and doesn't die
I will be running 4 Smiters, Silverhearts, and Militants on the mainboard. Spells
Revenge of the Hunted - I love this card, if you miracle it, it just ends the game even faster.
Strangleroot is a good suggestion overall, but this deck works around champion of the parish going out on turn 1/2 if possible, so I need humans to build his P/T up.
Thalia doesn't work well for me because i'm using selesnya charm/rancor for trample pressure, increasing savagery to make the double-strikers do extreme damage, and inquisitor's flail to engineer double strike/quadruple damage(I swear that card is seriously under-played, I don't get it),
I'd suggest silverhearts on mainboard. They're absurdly strong, and they love being soulbonded to silverblade paladin.
I play-tested revenge of the hunted. It allows you to get the christmas strike off (turn 3: 20 damage) but the problem i keep experiencing is that he always wants to be in my opening hand for some reason, even after I've shuffled very thoroughly, so I decided increasing savagery was a better trade off that's less risky.
Yeah, I hate grove of the guardian. It's been exceedingly underwhelming in testing, and every single time I've actually cast him he's just been bounced, like you said. I'm going to swap them out for Cathedral of War. Honestly if I'm going to be denied the correct mana it might as well be with something that's going to give me more of a boost.
Dollar rare is a dollar rare.
I like Cathedral in this deck. It's not in my G/W, more aggroy midrange, but with the double strike tech going on it's much more likely to be apt in this deck.
Agreed, and Primal Hunter doesn't really add a lot to the deck other than just being a hoss. I'd rather use an Ajani/Garruk Relentless but regrettably, they're both huge in my local meta, and so no one wants to trade them.
Strangleroot is a good suggestion overall, but this deck works around champion of the parish going out on turn 1/2 if possible, so I need humans to build his P/T up.
Thalia doesn't work well for me because i'm using selesnya charm/rancor for trample pressure, increasing savagery to make the double-strikers do extreme damage, and inquisitor's flail to engineer double strike/quadruple damage(I swear that card is seriously under-played, I don't get it),
I'd suggest silverhearts on mainboard. They're absurdly strong, and they love being soulbonded to silverblade paladin.
I play-tested revenge of the hunted. It allows you to get the christmas strike off (turn 3: 20 damage) but the problem i keep experiencing is that he always wants to be in my opening hand for some reason, even after I've shuffled very thoroughly, so I decided increasing savagery was a better trade off that's less risky.
I already have issues dropping lands on curve. I have terrible luck when it comes to draw, so I'm hesitant to throw myself to the wolves so readily. but if you think Thalia is worth the investment, I will make it, although I just traded my last one away. That being said, I'll probably drop the ranger's guile from sideboard if I'm using Thalia. I'll also probably drop increasing savagery as I'll never get to play it before I'm dead.
Okay, so i've been thinking about this a little more. Can I get some feedback on ranger's guile? I haven't playtested it yet and honestly i'm a little concerned it'll be underwhelming, and I have another sideboard worth of cards just waiting to be added to this sucker. I just want to protect my investments while continuing to stack on damage. Would joint assault be better? I was toying with the idea of throwing in some Druid's Familiar.
Also, for the more experienced players, how do you think this decklist will hold up against the more competitive decks? my local meta is extremely competitive, I'm dealing with at least two pro tour players, and I'm wondering if I can keep up the pressure against 4 thragtusk and abrupt decays out the wazzoo, not to mention the g/w sublime double strike decks that seem to be flying around everywhere.
Okay, so i've been thinking about this a little more. Can I get some feedback on ranger's guile? I haven't playtested it yet and honestly i'm a little concerned it'll be underwhelming, and I have another sideboard worth of cards just waiting to be added to this sucker. I just want to protect my investments while continuing to stack on damage. Would joint assault be better? I was toying with the idea of throwing in some Druid's Familiar.
Also, for the more experienced players, how do you think this decklist will hold up against the more competitive decks? my local meta is extremely competitive, I'm dealing with at least two pro tour players, and I'm wondering if I can keep up the pressure against 4 thragtusk and abrupt decays out the wazzoo, not to mention the g/w sublime double strike decks that seem to be flying around everywhere.
I think a lot of this would depend on your meta. Is there a lot of instant speed removal/bounce out there? If so, Ranger's Guile may be worth it to protect a soulbond or the resources you spent equipping/pumping a creature. I'm not a huge fan of the card, but my G/W Aggro deck got stomped by Azorius Charm last Friday, and I was thinking about adding a couple to my sideboard. What are your experiences with siding it in? In any case, I doubt it's a 4-of. I'd probably run 3 at most.
Garruk, Thalia, and Sigarda are all strong sideboard choices. Sigarda's better than you give her credit for - against a deck that runs a lot of targeted removal she's very effective. Thalia's main use is delaying board sweeps for the 1 extra turn you need to alpha strike (though she's a decent blocker early against R/B Aggro, too). I don't think Garruk belongs in the maindeck, as he's usually too slow to be effective against other aggro decks. But he's a house against control.
Slayer of the Wicked and Wild Defiance seem like subpar sideboard choices to me (unless everybody's playing R/B Aggro/Jund in your meta). I'd rather have more powerful/flexible options like Rest in Peace, Nevermore, O-Ring, or even Rootborn Defenses or Pithing Needle.
For your maindeck I've always liked the efficient power of Increasing Savagery, but it just seems too vulnerable at sorcery speed. What are your experiences with it? Would you rather be running a couple of Sublime Archangels yourself, and if not is it the cost or the vulnerability that has kept you away from them? Another alternative would be green pump spells (Giant Growth/Titanic Growth) - less long term power, but cheaper and more likely to "get through" as you don't have to cast them if you see your opponent tapping lands or moving up chump blockers. I've won limited games by double pumping a Fencing Ace on Turn 3 and chopping my opponent's life to 6. Seems like it would be good in Constucted, too.
Finally, I understand the power/appeal of Wolfir Silverheart, but I don't know if he fits this deck. The problem is that he stretches your mana curve higher than it wants to be. If you drop him, you can also safely drop your land count to 20-22 (especially if you decide to swap out Increasing Savagery as well). A card that might fill his role (again, not as durably, but with more blowout potential) is Wild Beastmaster. She's a human for your Champion/Mayor, and if she's pumped, she can enable a really quick alpha strike for your team. Turn 4 kills make Thragtusk less useful.
I think a lot of this would depend on your meta. Is there a lot of instant speed removal/bounce out there? If so, Ranger's Guile may be worth it to protect a soulbond or the resources you spent equipping/pumping a creature. I'm not a huge fan of the card, but my G/W Aggro deck got stomped by Azorius Charm last Friday, and I was thinking about adding a couple to my sideboard. What are your experiences with siding it in? In any case, I doubt it's a 4-of. I'd probably run 3 at most.
Garruk, Thalia, and Sigarda are all strong sideboard choices. Sigarda's better than you give her credit for - against a deck that runs a lot of targeted removal she's very effective. Thalia's main use is delaying board sweeps for the 1 extra turn you need to alpha strike (though she's a decent blocker early against R/B Aggro, too). I don't think Garruk belongs in the maindeck, as he's usually too slow to be effective against other aggro decks. But he's a house against control.
Slayer of the Wicked and Wild Defiance seem like subpar sideboard choices to me (unless everybody's playing R/B Aggro/Jund in your meta). I'd rather have more powerful/flexible options like Rest in Peace, Nevermore, O-Ring, or even Rootborn Defenses or Pithing Needle.
For your maindeck I've always liked the efficient power of Increasing Savagery, but it just seems too vulnerable at sorcery speed. What are your experiences with it? Would you rather be running a couple of Sublime Archangels yourself, and if not is it the cost or the vulnerability that has kept you away from them? Another alternative would be green pump spells (Giant Growth/Titanic Growth) - less long term power, but cheaper and more likely to "get through" as you don't have to cast them if you see your opponent tapping lands or moving up chump blockers. I've won limited games by double pumping a Fencing Ace on Turn 3 and chopping my opponent's life to 6. Seems like it would be good in Constucted, too.
Finally, I understand the power/appeal of Wolfir Silverheart, but I don't know if he fits this deck. The problem is that he stretches your mana curve higher than it wants to be. If you drop him, you can also safely drop your land count to 20-22 (especially if you decide to swap out Increasing Savagery as well). A card that might fill his role (again, not as durably, but with more blowout potential) is Wild Beastmaster. She's a human for your Champion/Mayor, and if she's pumped, she can enable a really quick alpha strike for your team. Turn 4 kills make Thragtusk less useful.
Anyways, good luck and let us know how it goes!
^this guy. Thanks for the awesome feedback dude.
Last time I went to standard I was playing a mixed token aggro deck that typically closed around turn 5-6 when it did, and I was seriously getting popped with azorius charm left and right, and amusingly enough tokens handled that quite well, but I'm concerned that my weak little fencing ace won't live long enough to see the massive damage output he deserves on turn 3, particularly when there IS a lot of jund/bant/america midrange in my meta. The hexproof is hella useful against basically everything and it typically gives +2/+2 to my double strikers or even +4/+4 when the flail's online.
I've seen so many pillar of flame I could scream, hence the wild defiance idea, and the slayer of the wicked - Olivia Voldaren lands almost every time I play against jund, and slayer answers her happily and gives me a nice little body to beat in those midrange decks with(since they can't abrupt decay him) But I do have access to 4 pithing needle/o-ring/rootborn defences/rest in peace, and they are on the excess sideboard I mentioned earlier.
Garruk/Wolfir Silverheart don't belong in maindeck, I won't argue that. Wolfir has been effective so far but I wonder how long that'll truly last, particularly once I get into competitive play - I've really only had the chance to playtest this against a detain-heavy azorious deck with some removal(which it gets through very well, I might add, too many threats for azorius charm, turns out) and g/w/b reanimator(which it also faired extremely well against)
Increasing savagery is slow, but I think it can afford to be sided out game 2 at a 2-of. with avacyn's pilgrim it drops on fencing ace on turn 3 ftw, making him a 6/6 hoss (and typically is accompanied by rancor) making him swing for 12-16 damage, meaning he has to be answered immediately, which I'm fine with as he's not really a choice target for removal, and now he can only be bounced or removed, BUT I'm inclined to agree with you that titanic growth/giant growth may actually be better if I lower the curve, and allows me to be more flexible and responsive.
I don't have sublime archangel cause I'se broke. I'd run it all day in this deck as a 2-4 of.
The reason I'm scared of running wild beastmaster is her subjectivity to all removal. it's kind of irritating to waste 3 mana on a spell just to have it busted by a snapcasted PoF(after he's already wrecked my fencing ace on turn 2) or heck, even a forge devil would do the trick.
I'm going to rebuild the deck with the mana curve set for 3(setting aside the flail), give it a shot, and see how she does.
1.)Reanimator For context this was a 8/10 reanimator. Strong and decently consistent with a partial array of thragtusks, angel of serenity, restoration angel, kraterhoof behemoth. Out of five rounds, i went 2-3. If he managed to get Thragtusk on board I basically always saw a cloudshift or restoration angel hitting it back to back and I couldn't deal with the overwhelming amount of lifegain. Angel of Serenity and Kraterhoof Behemoth won him the game when he did. Dryad Militant was extremely effective when I drew it. Fiend hunter not so much. Revenge of the hunted and wild beast master did massive work for multiple wins. Selesnya charm was extremely effective against this deck as well.
2.)U/W Aggro-control This was a 7/10 enchantment based aggro controller. I went 4-2 overall against this guy. We went to round three multiple times, oblivion rings and pacifisms just gave me a whole slew of trouble but couldn't stop my overall number of creatures, and Esperia/drogskoll reaver were not a match for double strike and trample damage, and I even managed to remove drogskoll reaver with a Giant Growth + Selesnya Charm combo and swing ftw.
3.)R/B Aggro-control I give this deck an 8/10 for relative consistency. We played 1 round, I won 2-1, my loss being due to effective and consistent creature removal followed up by a giant monster of a creature which just pounded me in the air for 3 turns(and he bumped me a couple of times) My wins were due to constant and consistent damage when he didn't draw enough creature control(I estimate he had around 8-10 removal spells)
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Wild beastmaster has proven to be a micro-behemoth in terms of his damage output. With rancor, giant growth, selesnya charm, mayor of avabruck, gavony township, and revenge of the hunted to buff him, he's pretty much always getting buffed, and in return he just buffs more. I will say that he takes away from the "surprise" element as you have to buff him first before attacking, but when revenge of the hunted hit him with a rancor already on him he allowed me to output around 40 damage without any double strike, so in essence he somewhat still engineers double damage in a different manner.
Strangely enough my opponents tended to not remove beastmaster and instead go for fencing ace/silverblade paladin, and that cost them multiple games when my avacyn's pilgrims and champions of the parish became massive threats when attacking with beastmaster.
That being said, if there are double strike creatures on the field to attack with him, they become extremely more effective as well.
Silverblade Paladins and Fencing aces left unchecked basically always ended games, and because of that they get removed often, leaving wild beastmaster unchecked for high damage potential - but if I don't draw enough creatures then I generally have problems with control.
I am quite aware that I need sublime archangel for this decklist.
You are right, Sublime Archangel is a must because she is capable of dealing stupid amounts of damage out of nowhere, specially if paired with Silverblade Paladin. My friend runs a very similar deck and many times he has ended the game when I thought everything was under control, dealing me 14-18 damage in a single hit.
You are right, Sublime Archangel is a must because she is capable of dealing stupid amounts of damage out of nowhere, specially if paired with Silverblade Paladin. My friend runs a very similar deck and many times he has ended the game when I thought everything was under control, dealing me 14-18 damage in a single hit.
For right now the knights of glory are doing OKAY as a replacement, but I desperately need at least 2 sublime archangel, if not 4. I've had the same thing happen to me at the standard tournaments so far. it's hard to reconcile that much damage coming at you without some instant speed removal.
New Updates. I took this deck to standard at the local shop. I made it to 3rd, out of 17 players with this deck. It works. It's fast. and it handled mirror match against sublime/silverblade like a champ.
Here's the most recently updated decklist(Post tournament, I picked up some good trades for it)
Ranger's guile won me a game against red control with just 1 on sideboard. Loved it, it's a great card, sticking with it until I get something better. I picked up a second Ajani so it's been added to the decklist as well. Elite inquisitor will be a haus in this deck against zombies/vampires.
Ajani won me two games. double strike/flying costs nothing with ajani once he's played, and a giant growth + any other buff is pretty much game.
I actually miracled revenge one time.(FTW) Otherwise it was useless and caused me to mulligan a lot as it kept mystically showing up in my hand as though it wanted to be there in a 20 land deck.
Wild Beastmaster was good as expected. Overwhelming numbers with him put me on the offensive enough to shut down aggro and damage-based creature control.
I got horrible draws against reanimator, but I didn't mulligan like I should have, 3 thragtusk back to back is not something this deck can deal with, even though i removed the first with selesnya charm.
Jund Midrange wrecked me. I did wallop him for 12 damage on turn 3 in one game but he answered everything I had after that with creature control. Not an unexpected outcome, I was okay with this loss.
G/W Sublime Beatdown. I answered everything he had with instant speed buffing, and that won me both games. Giant Growth FTW.
Alright, it's that time again. I'm getting ready for standard again and my meta is so competitive I decided it's time to take humans for a new spin.
Trying out Wild Defiance today. What do you guys think about wild defiance?
I think it's scary fast in the way wild beastmaster is without having to worry about summoning sickness,
and it's fairly defensive against your average R/B running searing spear/pillar of flame.
Check out this decklist. What's missing, what do I need? I call it Selesnya Gunslingers.
You think she's really worth it? What does she contribute to the deck other than a 2-4 turn clock?
well besides also being hexproof, a 5/5 for 5, and has flying, do you really need any more reasons?
She's perfect for a paladin target, or an exalted swinger, since she can't get hit with spot removal. Alot of times she's an auto-win against RDW when she hits the board. She's just a super-efficient creature that's hard to deal with... and has evasion.
Alright, it's that time again. I'm getting ready for standard again and my meta is so competitive I decided it's time to take humans for a new spin.
seems like you're missing a lot of the good heavy hitters selesnya has available to it. I also think you're pretty light on creatures compared to pump spells. I see you being stuck with lot of pump spells and no creatures to cast them on often.
Mostly cause they're not humans, and because they scream to be used against control decks.
Think they're worth playing mainboard? In testing they tend to get in the way of the main strategy, which I'm often willing to sacrifice in favor of a slightly slower but more consistent beatdown. Which is why I sideboard them.
In mirror against a G/W beatdown running loxodons I didn't run them. I handled every one I came across.
Won standard tournament last night with this deck, but I cut the wild defiance at the last minute. It was a good choice. Running with the original configuration worked very well. The deck is too fast, and fencing ace has mad speed and damage. I sealed 2 games on turn 3 last night with revenge of the hunted for the miracle. Against a very good R/W/U control deck I went 2-0, he couldn't deal with the fast damage, and Sigarda won me my second match against him. Hexproof from multiple sources in green aggro is amazing.
You guys were right about Sigarda. Thanks again!
That being said, this deck is 100% viable, and I have the numbers to prove it.
Any feedback would be greatly appreciated. I am quite aware that I need sublime archangel for this decklist.
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4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Fencing Ace
4 Knight of Glory
3 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Silverblade Paladin
2 Wolfir Silverheart
Lands
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4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Grove of the Guardian
2 Gavony Township
6 Forest
6 Plains
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4 Selesnya Charm
Sorceries
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2 Increasing Savagery
Enchantments
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4 Rancor
Artifacts
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2 Inquisitor's Flail
Planeswalkers
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1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
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3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Dryad Militant
4 Ranger's Guile
2 Slayer of the Wicked
2 Wild Defiance
You think she's really worth it? What does she contribute to the deck other than a 2-4 turn clock?
Creatures
3 Thalia - We're mainly a creature based deck so I figured so is useful in slowing opponent's clock.
4 Strangelroot geist - fast and doesn't die
I will be running 4 Smiters, Silverhearts, and Militants on the mainboard.
Spells
Revenge of the Hunted - I love this card, if you miracle it, it just ends the game even faster.
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Yeah, I hate grove of the guardian. It's been exceedingly underwhelming in testing, and every single time I've actually cast him he's just been bounced, like you said. I'm going to swap them out for Cathedral of War. Honestly if I'm going to be denied the correct mana it might as well be with something that's going to give me more of a boost.
Dollar rare is a dollar rare.
Agreed, and Primal Hunter doesn't really add a lot to the deck other than just being a hoss. I'd rather use an Ajani/Garruk Relentless but regrettably, they're both huge in my local meta, and so no one wants to trade them.
Strangleroot is a good suggestion overall, but this deck works around champion of the parish going out on turn 1/2 if possible, so I need humans to build his P/T up.
Thalia doesn't work well for me because i'm using selesnya charm/rancor for trample pressure, increasing savagery to make the double-strikers do extreme damage, and inquisitor's flail to engineer double strike/quadruple damage(I swear that card is seriously under-played, I don't get it),
I'd suggest silverhearts on mainboard. They're absurdly strong, and they love being soulbonded to silverblade paladin.
I play-tested revenge of the hunted. It allows you to get the christmas strike off (turn 3: 20 damage) but the problem i keep experiencing is that he always wants to be in my opening hand for some reason, even after I've shuffled very thoroughly, so I decided increasing savagery was a better trade off that's less risky.
I like Cathedral in this deck. It's not in my G/W, more aggroy midrange, but with the double strike tech going on it's much more likely to be apt in this deck.
Also, for the more experienced players, how do you think this decklist will hold up against the more competitive decks? my local meta is extremely competitive, I'm dealing with at least two pro tour players, and I'm wondering if I can keep up the pressure against 4 thragtusk and abrupt decays out the wazzoo, not to mention the g/w sublime double strike decks that seem to be flying around everywhere.
I think a lot of this would depend on your meta. Is there a lot of instant speed removal/bounce out there? If so, Ranger's Guile may be worth it to protect a soulbond or the resources you spent equipping/pumping a creature. I'm not a huge fan of the card, but my G/W Aggro deck got stomped by Azorius Charm last Friday, and I was thinking about adding a couple to my sideboard. What are your experiences with siding it in? In any case, I doubt it's a 4-of. I'd probably run 3 at most.
Garruk, Thalia, and Sigarda are all strong sideboard choices. Sigarda's better than you give her credit for - against a deck that runs a lot of targeted removal she's very effective. Thalia's main use is delaying board sweeps for the 1 extra turn you need to alpha strike (though she's a decent blocker early against R/B Aggro, too). I don't think Garruk belongs in the maindeck, as he's usually too slow to be effective against other aggro decks. But he's a house against control.
Slayer of the Wicked and Wild Defiance seem like subpar sideboard choices to me (unless everybody's playing R/B Aggro/Jund in your meta). I'd rather have more powerful/flexible options like Rest in Peace, Nevermore, O-Ring, or even Rootborn Defenses or Pithing Needle.
For your maindeck I've always liked the efficient power of Increasing Savagery, but it just seems too vulnerable at sorcery speed. What are your experiences with it? Would you rather be running a couple of Sublime Archangels yourself, and if not is it the cost or the vulnerability that has kept you away from them? Another alternative would be green pump spells (Giant Growth/Titanic Growth) - less long term power, but cheaper and more likely to "get through" as you don't have to cast them if you see your opponent tapping lands or moving up chump blockers. I've won limited games by double pumping a Fencing Ace on Turn 3 and chopping my opponent's life to 6. Seems like it would be good in Constucted, too.
Finally, I understand the power/appeal of Wolfir Silverheart, but I don't know if he fits this deck. The problem is that he stretches your mana curve higher than it wants to be. If you drop him, you can also safely drop your land count to 20-22 (especially if you decide to swap out Increasing Savagery as well). A card that might fill his role (again, not as durably, but with more blowout potential) is Wild Beastmaster. She's a human for your Champion/Mayor, and if she's pumped, she can enable a really quick alpha strike for your team. Turn 4 kills make Thragtusk less useful.
Anyways, good luck and let us know how it goes!
^this guy. Thanks for the awesome feedback dude.
Last time I went to standard I was playing a mixed token aggro deck that typically closed around turn 5-6 when it did, and I was seriously getting popped with azorius charm left and right, and amusingly enough tokens handled that quite well, but I'm concerned that my weak little fencing ace won't live long enough to see the massive damage output he deserves on turn 3, particularly when there IS a lot of jund/bant/america midrange in my meta. The hexproof is hella useful against basically everything and it typically gives +2/+2 to my double strikers or even +4/+4 when the flail's online.
I've seen so many pillar of flame I could scream, hence the wild defiance idea, and the slayer of the wicked - Olivia Voldaren lands almost every time I play against jund, and slayer answers her happily and gives me a nice little body to beat in those midrange decks with(since they can't abrupt decay him) But I do have access to 4 pithing needle/o-ring/rootborn defences/rest in peace, and they are on the excess sideboard I mentioned earlier.
Garruk/Wolfir Silverheart don't belong in maindeck, I won't argue that. Wolfir has been effective so far but I wonder how long that'll truly last, particularly once I get into competitive play - I've really only had the chance to playtest this against a detain-heavy azorious deck with some removal(which it gets through very well, I might add, too many threats for azorius charm, turns out) and g/w/b reanimator(which it also faired extremely well against)
Increasing savagery is slow, but I think it can afford to be sided out game 2 at a 2-of. with avacyn's pilgrim it drops on fencing ace on turn 3 ftw, making him a 6/6 hoss (and typically is accompanied by rancor) making him swing for 12-16 damage, meaning he has to be answered immediately, which I'm fine with as he's not really a choice target for removal, and now he can only be bounced or removed, BUT I'm inclined to agree with you that titanic growth/giant growth may actually be better if I lower the curve, and allows me to be more flexible and responsive.
I don't have sublime archangel cause I'se broke. I'd run it all day in this deck as a 2-4 of.
The reason I'm scared of running wild beastmaster is her subjectivity to all removal. it's kind of irritating to waste 3 mana on a spell just to have it busted by a snapcasted PoF(after he's already wrecked my fencing ace on turn 2) or heck, even a forge devil would do the trick.
I'm going to rebuild the deck with the mana curve set for 3(setting aside the flail), give it a shot, and see how she does.
Double Trample Strike
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4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Knight of Glory
4 Fencing Ace
3 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Silverblade Paladin
3 Wild Beastmaster
Spells: 12
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4 Selesnya Charm
4 Rancor
3 Giant Growth
2 Revenge of the Hunted
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1 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Lands: 20
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4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Gavony Township
5 Plains
5 Forest
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3 Loxodon Smiter
4 Dryad Militant
3 Pithing Needle
4 Fiend Hunter
1 Giant Growth
I playtested against:
1.)Reanimator For context this was a 8/10 reanimator. Strong and decently consistent with a partial array of thragtusks, angel of serenity, restoration angel, kraterhoof behemoth. Out of five rounds, i went 2-3. If he managed to get Thragtusk on board I basically always saw a cloudshift or restoration angel hitting it back to back and I couldn't deal with the overwhelming amount of lifegain. Angel of Serenity and Kraterhoof Behemoth won him the game when he did. Dryad Militant was extremely effective when I drew it. Fiend hunter not so much. Revenge of the hunted and wild beast master did massive work for multiple wins. Selesnya charm was extremely effective against this deck as well.
2.)U/W Aggro-control This was a 7/10 enchantment based aggro controller. I went 4-2 overall against this guy. We went to round three multiple times, oblivion rings and pacifisms just gave me a whole slew of trouble but couldn't stop my overall number of creatures, and Esperia/drogskoll reaver were not a match for double strike and trample damage, and I even managed to remove drogskoll reaver with a Giant Growth + Selesnya Charm combo and swing ftw.
3.)R/B Aggro-control I give this deck an 8/10 for relative consistency. We played 1 round, I won 2-1, my loss being due to effective and consistent creature removal followed up by a giant monster of a creature which just pounded me in the air for 3 turns(and he bumped me a couple of times) My wins were due to constant and consistent damage when he didn't draw enough creature control(I estimate he had around 8-10 removal spells)
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Overall thoughts:
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Wild beastmaster has proven to be a micro-behemoth in terms of his damage output. With rancor, giant growth, selesnya charm, mayor of avabruck, gavony township, and revenge of the hunted to buff him, he's pretty much always getting buffed, and in return he just buffs more. I will say that he takes away from the "surprise" element as you have to buff him first before attacking, but when revenge of the hunted hit him with a rancor already on him he allowed me to output around 40 damage without any double strike, so in essence he somewhat still engineers double damage in a different manner.
Strangely enough my opponents tended to not remove beastmaster and instead go for fencing ace/silverblade paladin, and that cost them multiple games when my avacyn's pilgrims and champions of the parish became massive threats when attacking with beastmaster.
That being said, if there are double strike creatures on the field to attack with him, they become extremely more effective as well.
Silverblade Paladins and Fencing aces left unchecked basically always ended games, and because of that they get removed often, leaving wild beastmaster unchecked for high damage potential - but if I don't draw enough creatures then I generally have problems with control.
Potential Cards to add/test
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4 Loyal Cathar
4 Doomed Traveller
4 Prencinct Captain
You are right, Sublime Archangel is a must because she is capable of dealing stupid amounts of damage out of nowhere, specially if paired with Silverblade Paladin. My friend runs a very similar deck and many times he has ended the game when I thought everything was under control, dealing me 14-18 damage in a single hit.
For right now the knights of glory are doing OKAY as a replacement, but I desperately need at least 2 sublime archangel, if not 4. I've had the same thing happen to me at the standard tournaments so far. it's hard to reconcile that much damage coming at you without some instant speed removal.
Here's the most recently updated decklist(Post tournament, I picked up some good trades for it)
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
2 Giant Growth
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Fencing Ace
4 Knight of Glory
4 Selesnya Charm
2 Wild BeastMaster
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
2 Revenge of the Hunted
Lands: 20
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4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Gavony Township
5 Forest
5 Plains
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4 Loxodon Smiter
2 Rest In Peace
4 Loyal Cathar
2 Elite Inquisitor
3 Ranger's Guile
Ranger's guile won me a game against red control with just 1 on sideboard. Loved it, it's a great card, sticking with it until I get something better. I picked up a second Ajani so it's been added to the decklist as well. Elite inquisitor will be a haus in this deck against zombies/vampires.
Ajani won me two games. double strike/flying costs nothing with ajani once he's played, and a giant growth + any other buff is pretty much game.
I actually miracled revenge one time.(FTW) Otherwise it was useless and caused me to mulligan a lot as it kept mystically showing up in my hand as though it wanted to be there in a 20 land deck.
Wild Beastmaster was good as expected. Overwhelming numbers with him put me on the offensive enough to shut down aggro and damage-based creature control.
Overall here were my matchups.
1.) Bye
2.) U/W/B Flying Tokens. 2-1
3.) Some R/W/? control junk I couldn't identify. Possibly homebrew. 2-1
4.) Jund Midrange. 0-2
5.) Draw.
6.) G/W Sublime Beatdown. 2-0
7.) G/W/B Reanimator. 0-2
I got horrible draws against reanimator, but I didn't mulligan like I should have, 3 thragtusk back to back is not something this deck can deal with, even though i removed the first with selesnya charm.
Jund Midrange wrecked me. I did wallop him for 12 damage on turn 3 in one game but he answered everything I had after that with creature control. Not an unexpected outcome, I was okay with this loss.
G/W Sublime Beatdown. I answered everything he had with instant speed buffing, and that won me both games. Giant Growth FTW.
Trying out Wild Defiance today. What do you guys think about wild defiance?
I think it's scary fast in the way wild beastmaster is without having to worry about summoning sickness,
and it's fairly defensive against your average R/B running searing spear/pillar of flame.
Check out this decklist. What's missing, what do I need? I call it Selesnya Gunslingers.
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4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Fencing Ace
4 Silverblade Paladin
Spells: 16
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4 Selesnya Charm
2 Ranger's Guile
2 Giant Growth
4 Rancor
2 Revenge of the Hunted
2 Wild Defiance
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4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Gavony Township
2 Cathedral Of War
5 Forest
5 Plains
Planeswalkers: 2
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2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
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1 Ranger's Guile
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Giant Growth
2 Rest in Peace
2 Wild Beastmaster
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Knight of Glory
well besides also being hexproof, a 5/5 for 5, and has flying, do you really need any more reasons?
She's perfect for a paladin target, or an exalted swinger, since she can't get hit with spot removal. Alot of times she's an auto-win against RDW when she hits the board. She's just a super-efficient creature that's hard to deal with... and has evasion.
seems like you're missing a lot of the good heavy hitters selesnya has available to it. I also think you're pretty light on creatures compared to pump spells. I see you being stuck with lot of pump spells and no creatures to cast them on often.
I would drop a few of your worse pump spells for guys like loxodon smiter or [CARD]call to the conclave
[/CARD]
Deck Creatures: 20
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4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Champion of the Parish
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4 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Fencing Ace
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4 Silverblade Paladin
Spells: 16
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4 Selesnya Charm
2 Ranger's Guile
2 Giant Growth
4 Rancor
2 Revenge of the Hunted
2 Wild Defiance
Lands : 22
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4 Temple Garden
4 Sunpetal Grove
2 Gavony Township
2 Cathedral Of War
5 Forest
5 Plains
Planeswalkers: 2
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2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Sideboard:
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1 Ranger's Guile
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Giant Growth
2 Rest in Peace
2 Wild Beastmaster
4 Loxodon Smiter
4 Knight of Glory
Modern:
Twinning End
Commander:
Mayael the Anema
Mostly cause they're not humans, and because they scream to be used against control decks.
Think they're worth playing mainboard? In testing they tend to get in the way of the main strategy, which I'm often willing to sacrifice in favor of a slightly slower but more consistent beatdown. Which is why I sideboard them.
In mirror against a G/W beatdown running loxodons I didn't run them. I handled every one I came across.
You guys were right about Sigarda. Thanks again!
That being said, this deck is 100% viable, and I have the numbers to prove it.
I just received 4 as a christmas present, almost crapped myself.