I've seen quite a few cards I like in the RtR spoilers, so I figured I'd try to come up with a deck that used a large majority of them. Here's what I came up with.
I think this will be pretty cool and good once we've got the full set as there'll be a few more cards for it. Seems cool.......... God the Timmy in me is screaming out "WHY NO BOLAS??!" though lol.
Edit: One question though, why Desperate Ravings? Seems there could probably something better. Also me wants Rakdos's Return sideboard
I like looting. Alot. And I like having lots of options for looting. Ravings would likely be one of the first things to cut once more stuff gets spoiled, as I'm not a huge fan of the random discard. Also, I dislike Rakdos' Return for some reason. Just rubs me the wrong way, I guess.
Drop most of the counterspells. Many decks run Cavern of Souls, so your counterspells are better used for non-creature spells, of which Izzet Charm can probably take care.
I would dump some of the lower-end creatures and put in some sweeps. So far, the only sweeps to look forward to are Magmaquake, Rolling Temblor, Devastation Tide, Bonfire, and Mizz Mortar.
I like looting. Alot. And I like having lots of options for looting. Ravings would likely be one of the first things to cut once more stuff gets spoiled, as I'm not a huge fan of the random discard. Also, I dislike Rakdos' Return for some reason. Just rubs me the wrong way, I guess.
I might change them for Faithless Looting then. If Rakdos Charm is good though I guess you could just cut those.
I'd like to add bonfire, but it's not quite in my budget atm. $45 a pop is a bit ridiculous. I'd probably toss in magmaquake after some testing, but I'd like to keep the counters. Negate is nearly always useful, and with all the gy manipulation, I'd like to keep at least a few dissipates. I can always side them out if needed.
I'd definitely drop the creature count substantially. Nivix Guildmage is bad, 4 Snaps is probably overkill, SEVEN(!!!) finishers is way too many...
I'd probably run:
2 Snapcaster Mage
0-3 Vampire Nighthawk (depending on how aggressive the meta is. It's there for removal/lifegain more than anything.)
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Niv-Mizzet OR Thundermaw Hellkite (Hellkite if Lingering Souls becomes a card again, Niv if not.)
Nivix Guildmage and Desperate Ravings are mostly filler right now. Once I proxy up the deck, I'll be able to see if I can drop the creature count and still get what I need reliably. If that's the case, I'd probably still keep at least 3 snappy and 3 olivia, as I think olivia will draw alot of hate. I'll probably keep 1 Thundermaw and 1 Niv-Mizzet main and 1 of each in the SB, but I can't be sure until I get the deck together.
I don't like this. You're running 13 targets for Snapcaster with 4 Snaps, your only removal is 4 Dreadbore, there's no sweepers, there's virtually nothing to use the guildmages second ability on while the first ability can be handled through land slots. Last the average CMC is 2.81 while you only have 24 lands and very few spells to draw more cards. That's a bit much.
As I've said, guildmage is gonna be the first on the chopping block, and I'll probably lower the snappy count when I know what the magic number is. Just so it's known, I came up with the basic idea for this deck and fleshed it out in about 10 minutes, so it's incredibly first-drafty.
I like that build quite a bit. Completely forgot about tragic slip for some reason. I wanted to fit Lily otv, but I ended up cutting her for some reason. I'll likely toss her in at some point during my testing. I'm really on the fence with Hypersonic Dragon. I liked it initially, but I'm not sure how much value I'd get out of it before he dies a fiery death.
This would probably be where I'd begin playtesting. Still seems like 1-2 too many creatures to me, and I'd like a 26th land but I'm not sure what I can cut yet. I definitely like Think Twice over Desperate Ravings.
The obvious weakness of this build is early creature swarms. Your only defense early on are spot removal and Nighthawks. You have no sweeper option until turn 6, which is a big issue if Tokens becomes a deck again. A Pyroclasm reprint would be totally perfect.
Id like to suggest Augur of Bolas to help shore up some of the aggro matches. He trumps Gravecrawler and Snapcaster Mage and stuffs all the 2/2s for multiple turns effectively gaining life and usually draws a card as well as being able to get beats in if need be.
I feel like rolling temblor is going to be an auto include, its really the only effective way to kill GoST. Everything else lets them untap with him and thats probably bad news in a format with Izzet Charm, Azorious Charm, Snapcaster Mage, Restoration Angel and Rootborn Defence. I have a feeling that its going to be a Saint Traft season.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a good sweeper in the rest of the set because I don't think any that we have so far will cut it. Mizzium Mortars doesn't hit until turn 6, Bonfire of the Damned doesn't do anything until turn 5 unless you get swarmed by 1 toughness creatures and the rest don't hit fliers (Which, in my opinion, is going to be a big deal.)
Yea, this deck looks awesome except the glaring weakness at the sweeper spot... arguably the single most important card for control, especially in such a heavy aggro set like Innistrad.
Rolling Temblor is alright, but that flying weakness might be pretty relevant.
@Zer0: Do you think Curse of Death's Hold is worth it? I guess we don't really know yet. It's an all-star in Token metagames, but I've found it very underwhelming in other match-ups in the past.
@Zer0: Do you think Curse of Death's Hold is worth it? I guess we don't really know yet. It's an all-star in Token metagames, but I've found it very underwhelming in other match-ups in the past.
I'm going to post an excerpt of what I said in the competitive Grixis Control thread about Izzet Charm, because I believe it needs repeating. In short, the card is not as good as it looks in a control deck.
If I have five cards in hand and cast Izzet Charm on the third mode, I end with four cards in hand. If I have five cards in hand and use any other card draw spell (Forbidden Alchemy, Desperate Ravings, Desolate Lighthouse, Think Twice), I end with five cards in hand (or six if I'm flashing back those spells).
Thus the third mode of Izzet Charm actually creates a card disadvantage. The only time you want to cast it in that mode is when you're currently holding two useless cards in hand and by dumping them you're going to significantly improve your hand quality. (EDIT: And this is something we can already do without sacrificing a spell slot or losing card advantage using Desolate Lighthouse.)
Now think about the first two modes of Izzet Charm. Remember, it's not Mana Leak - it's Spell Pierce (counter a non-creature spell unless they pay 2). And it's not Shock, because it can't go upstairs. It has two fairly narrow applications. In fact, I would argue that you will likely be happier in the long run with four copies of Searing Spear in your deck than four copies of Izzet Charm.
Unless the post-rotation metagame features decks with powerful and expensive non-creature spells, as well as decks with relevant 2-toughness creatures, I think you'll find Izzet Charm underwhelming.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
This would probably be where I'd begin playtesting. Still seems like 1-2 too many creatures to me, and I'd like a 26th land but I'm not sure what I can cut yet. I definitely like Think Twice over Desperate Ravings.
The obvious weakness of this build is early creature swarms. Your only defense early on are spot removal and Nighthawks. You have no sweeper option until turn 6, which is a big issue if Tokens becomes a deck again. A Pyroclasm reprint would be totally perfect.
It seems like there would be too much variance with your creatures. I think you need a set of snappy, especially with the amount of instants/sorceries you're running. I also think TS is strictly better than PoF except for against zombies, which is why I run 3 in the side. Also, consider that Cavern of Souls is a card and thus neuters most counter magic. You should be able to hash out any problems with Snappy/Removal synergy.
With the sweepers spoiled so far I think we need to go heavier on the red side of things than blue (my current deck is more blue than red) because the mana base is going to want a lot of Blood Crypts to fuel Mutilate. If we can get enough swamps in the deck that's looking like the best sweeper. It might have to wait until Gatecrash though.
The problems with the current ones are Bonfire is only usable as a miracle, Street Spasm is no good against fliers and requires too much mana, and Rolling Temblor also misses fliers. Also, Rolling Temblor only being 2 damage could be highly relevant. The standard Selsyna token looks to be a 2/2, with a turn 2 Intangible Virtue on the field their tokens will be out of range of Temblor.
I don't like X based or not hitting fliers sweepers niether are useful to us, since I want to be able to sweep and leave a counter up and kill the spirit tokens/flipped Delvers.
I think Mizzium Mortars is fantastic, it just won't really help you if you're facing a swarm on the board by turn 4. The 3RRR overload cost really isn't hard to reach at all with 8 shock lands and 8 M10 duals providing R mana. The mana base of this deck is absolutely fantastic, and there really is no limit to what you can jam in there with so many dual lands available.
On Mutilate: Doesn't really work yet. Maybe with Gatecrash when we can realistically be running 15 Swamps. Right now I'm running 6-7, which simply doesn't cut it.
Updated version after some re-thinking. I'm actually not sold on Snapcaster in this deck. I think I'd rather have more Nighthawks, especially with that Dryad being spoiled that totally hoses Snappy. Edit: JUST TO BE CLEAR: Snapcaster is very powerful here, as he is in every spell-based deck, I just don't know if Snapcasting kill spells is where I want to be on turn 4-7. I definitely don't want a 4-pack of him, and whether or not I want the 2 requires more testing.
Just a note I'd say that magmaquake is the best of the not hitting fliers sweepers. It could go in the board to shore up the hyper aggro flyer-less MUs if there are any such..,
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I'm a control player, because I like to reserve the right to say no.
I have been pleasantly surprised with curse of death's hold I didn't expect it to be that good so I had it in the sideboard but it has won me so many games now that I am definitely main boarding it. locks out so many decks.
Zombies is almost guaranteed to be a force come ravinica it loses nothing, you need Pillar of Flame and Sever the bloodline (also great against tokens) to deal with them... either main or sideboard.
4 Blood Crypt
4 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Dragonskull Summit
3 Drowned Catacomb
3 Mountain
3 Swamp
3 Island
3 Vampire Nighthawk
3 Olivia Voldaren
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Nivix Guildmage
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
4 Dreadbore
4 Izzet Charm
2 Negate
3 Dissipate
3 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Desperate Ravings
Still working on the sideboard, any help with that would be appreciated.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Thanks in advance.
Decks:
Sliver Queen
Nekusar, the Mindrazer (70% pimped)
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Animar, Soul of Elements (under construction)
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (under construction)
Phelddagrif (under construction)
Sydri, Galvanic Genius (constructing list)
Standard:
Rug Prophet (4-1)
UW Angel Post (under construction)
Modern:
Mono U Wizards
BUG Tempo (theorycrafting)
Casual:
Elves vs Goblins
Edit: One question though, why Desperate Ravings? Seems there could probably something better. Also me wants Rakdos's Return sideboard
Decks:
Sliver Queen
Nekusar, the Mindrazer (70% pimped)
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Animar, Soul of Elements (under construction)
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (under construction)
Phelddagrif (under construction)
Sydri, Galvanic Genius (constructing list)
Standard:
Rug Prophet (4-1)
UW Angel Post (under construction)
Modern:
Mono U Wizards
BUG Tempo (theorycrafting)
Casual:
Elves vs Goblins
I would dump some of the lower-end creatures and put in some sweeps. So far, the only sweeps to look forward to are Magmaquake, Rolling Temblor, Devastation Tide, Bonfire, and Mizz Mortar.
I might change them for Faithless Looting then. If Rakdos Charm is good though I guess you could just cut those.
Decks:
Sliver Queen
Nekusar, the Mindrazer (70% pimped)
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Animar, Soul of Elements (under construction)
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (under construction)
Phelddagrif (under construction)
Sydri, Galvanic Genius (constructing list)
Standard:
Rug Prophet (4-1)
UW Angel Post (under construction)
Modern:
Mono U Wizards
BUG Tempo (theorycrafting)
Casual:
Elves vs Goblins
Decks:
Sliver Queen
Nekusar, the Mindrazer (70% pimped)
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Animar, Soul of Elements (under construction)
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (under construction)
Phelddagrif (under construction)
Sydri, Galvanic Genius (constructing list)
Standard:
Rug Prophet (4-1)
UW Angel Post (under construction)
Modern:
Mono U Wizards
BUG Tempo (theorycrafting)
Casual:
Elves vs Goblins
I'd probably run:
2 Snapcaster Mage
0-3 Vampire Nighthawk (depending on how aggressive the meta is. It's there for removal/lifegain more than anything.)
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Niv-Mizzet OR Thundermaw Hellkite (Hellkite if Lingering Souls becomes a card again, Niv if not.)
Decks:
Sliver Queen
Nekusar, the Mindrazer (70% pimped)
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Animar, Soul of Elements (under construction)
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (under construction)
Phelddagrif (under construction)
Sydri, Galvanic Genius (constructing list)
Standard:
Rug Prophet (4-1)
UW Angel Post (under construction)
Modern:
Mono U Wizards
BUG Tempo (theorycrafting)
Casual:
Elves vs Goblins
Decks:
Sliver Queen
Nekusar, the Mindrazer (70% pimped)
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Animar, Soul of Elements (under construction)
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (under construction)
Phelddagrif (under construction)
Sydri, Galvanic Genius (constructing list)
Standard:
Rug Prophet (4-1)
UW Angel Post (under construction)
Modern:
Mono U Wizards
BUG Tempo (theorycrafting)
Casual:
Elves vs Goblins
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Hypersonic Dragon
3 Olivia Voldaren
3 Blistercoil Weird
2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
2 Mercurial Chemister
Spells
4 Dreadbore
3 Izzet Charm
3 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Tragic Slip
1 Mizzium Mortars
3 Desperate Ravings
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands
3 Blood Crypt
3 Steam Vents
3 Dragonskull Summit
3 Sulfur Falls
4 Drowned Catacomb
3 Island
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Desolate Lighthouse
3 Pillar of Flame
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
3 Rakdos’s Return
2 Dissipate
3 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Mercurial Chemister
2 Thundermaw Hellkite
Decks:
Sliver Queen
Nekusar, the Mindrazer (70% pimped)
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
Animar, Soul of Elements (under construction)
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper (under construction)
Phelddagrif (under construction)
Sydri, Galvanic Genius (constructing list)
Standard:
Rug Prophet (4-1)
UW Angel Post (under construction)
Modern:
Mono U Wizards
BUG Tempo (theorycrafting)
Casual:
Elves vs Goblins
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Olivia Voldaren
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Spells: 23
3 Tragic Slip
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Dreadbore
4 Izzet Charm
3 Think Twice
3 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Dissipate
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Lands: 25
3 Blood Crypt
3 Steam Vents
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Sulfur Falls
3 Drowned Catacomb
2 Island
2 Swamp
3 Mountain
1 Desolate Lighthouse
This would probably be where I'd begin playtesting. Still seems like 1-2 too many creatures to me, and I'd like a 26th land but I'm not sure what I can cut yet. I definitely like Think Twice over Desperate Ravings.
The obvious weakness of this build is early creature swarms. Your only defense early on are spot removal and Nighthawks. You have no sweeper option until turn 6, which is a big issue if Tokens becomes a deck again. A Pyroclasm reprint would be totally perfect.
Edit: Actually, I'm not sure which I'd prefer between Tragic Slip and Pillar of Flame. Instant is relevant, but so is exiling Gravecrawlers and Geralf's Messengers. Zombies will for sure be a deck early on.
I feel like rolling temblor is going to be an auto include, its really the only effective way to kill GoST. Everything else lets them untap with him and thats probably bad news in a format with Izzet Charm, Azorious Charm, Snapcaster Mage, Restoration Angel and Rootborn Defence. I have a feeling that its going to be a Saint Traft season.
I've been testing and tweaking my list and here is what I have so far.
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Olivia Voldaren
2x Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Enchantments:
3x Curse of Death's Hold
Instants/Sorceries:
4x Dreadbore
4x Pillar of Flame
3x Think Twice
2x Izzet Charm
2x Dissipate
2x Mizzium Mortars
1x Rakdos's Return
2x Liliana of the Veil
2x Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1x Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
Land:
4x Blood Crypt
4x Steam Vents
4x Dragonskull Summit
4x Drowned Catacomb
4x Sulfur Falls
2x Desolate Lighthouse
2x Swamp
1x Island
1x Swamp
I'm keeping my fingers crossed for a good sweeper in the rest of the set because I don't think any that we have so far will cut it. Mizzium Mortars doesn't hit until turn 6, Bonfire of the Damned doesn't do anything until turn 5 unless you get swarmed by 1 toughness creatures and the rest don't hit fliers (Which, in my opinion, is going to be a big deal.)
Rolling Temblor is alright, but that flying weakness might be pretty relevant.
@Zer0: Do you think Curse of Death's Hold is worth it? I guess we don't really know yet. It's an all-star in Token metagames, but I've found it very underwhelming in other match-ups in the past.
Whether it is worth it or not remains to be seen, but it does take out a lot of commonly used cards. (And it prevents them from being cast again)
It kills all manner of Spirit Tokens.
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Mana Dorks
Judge's Familiar
Snapcaster Mage
Unflipped Delver of Secrets
Negates Strangleroot Geist's Undying ability.
Gravecrawler
Blood Artist
New Stromkirk Nobles and Chamion of the Parishs.
etc, etc.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
It seems like there would be too much variance with your creatures. I think you need a set of snappy, especially with the amount of instants/sorceries you're running. I also think TS is strictly better than PoF except for against zombies, which is why I run 3 in the side. Also, consider that Cavern of Souls is a card and thus neuters most counter magic. You should be able to hash out any problems with Snappy/Removal synergy.
The problems with the current ones are Bonfire is only usable as a miracle, Street Spasm is no good against fliers and requires too much mana, and Rolling Temblor also misses fliers. Also, Rolling Temblor only being 2 damage could be highly relevant. The standard Selsyna token looks to be a 2/2, with a turn 2 Intangible Virtue on the field their tokens will be out of range of Temblor.
We really need another sweeper in RtR.
I don't like X based or not hitting fliers sweepers niether are useful to us, since I want to be able to sweep and leave a counter up and kill the spirit tokens/flipped Delvers.
need pyroclasm or variant thereof, whipeflare is so important right now.
Mizzet mortars is too much mana particularly red mana to work.
Mulitate requires you to play almost mono black even with blood crypt
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
On Mutilate: Doesn't really work yet. Maybe with Gatecrash when we can realistically be running 15 Swamps. Right now I'm running 6-7, which simply doesn't cut it.
2 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
Spells: 24
3 Tragic Slip
4 Mizzium Mortars
3 Dreadbore
4 Izzet Charm
4 Think Twice
3 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Dissipate
2 Liliana of the Veil
Lands: 26
4 Blood Crypt
4 Steam Vents
4 Dragonskull Summit
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Drowned Catacomb
1 Island
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Desolate Lighthouse
Updated version after some re-thinking. I'm actually not sold on Snapcaster in this deck. I think I'd rather have more Nighthawks, especially with that Dryad being spoiled that totally hoses Snappy. Edit: JUST TO BE CLEAR: Snapcaster is very powerful here, as he is in every spell-based deck, I just don't know if Snapcasting kill spells is where I want to be on turn 4-7. I definitely don't want a 4-pack of him, and whether or not I want the 2 requires more testing.
Other cards I'd like to test in varying amounts:
Judge's Familiar
Duress
Pillar of Flame
Curse of Death's Hold
Amass the Components
Rakdos' Return (singleton)
Devil's Play (singleton)
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (singleton)
Zombies is almost guaranteed to be a force come ravinica it loses nothing, you need Pillar of Flame and Sever the bloodline (also great against tokens) to deal with them... either main or sideboard.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own