Surprise, there are more decks in Standard than just Delver! Esper Midrange seems to be doing well and there is a guy with Mono Black who is doing well.
Is anyone local or considered going? What do you think of Mono Black?
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
That Esper vs. Esper match was simultaneously interesting, and frustrating. As a matter of personal taste, I would have liked to see a more organized board on their part: I could never tell what mana was being tapped, and what made that plains so special that it needed to be next to creatures.
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
The QF with the Mono Black player vs naya pod was just painful to watch game 2. I saw as many Black Sun Zenith wipes (4) as missed chances to just win the game from both players. That was just brutal.
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"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
The mono black player made so many mistakes. Was awful play. His deck list is not where mono black should be (refer to Mike Flores). I ran mono black (flores list) this week at FNM took down a 26 player pool. MBC is well positioned.
The mono black player made so many mistakes. Was awful play. His deck list is not where mono black should be (refer to Mike Flores). I ran mono black (flores list) this week at FNM took down a 26 player pool. MBC is well positioned.
The QF with the Mono Black player vs naya pod was just painful to watch game 2. I saw as many Black Sun Zenith wipes (4) as missed chances to just win the game from both players. That was just brutal.
Which taking down a 26 player FNM pool is even remotely close to top 8ing at a SCG event with over 400 players.
Everyone makes play mistakes and he did so with a deck that hasn't top 8ed before in any standard competitive scene in the past 8 months.
Please don't bash players doing better than you. I doubt you could have bluffed a swamp as a doom blade to keep the game going.
Which taking down a 26 player FNM pool is even remotely close to top 8ing at a SCG event with over 400 players.
Everyone makes play mistakes and he did so with a deck that hasn't top 8ed before in any standard competitive scene in the past 8 months.
Please don't bash players doing better than you. I doubt you could have bluffed a swamp as a doom blade to keep the game going.
I probably also would not doom blade my own Griselbrand when I had the board locked up, or not exile a creature with Karn, or forget my wurmcoil tokens, or just throwing away zombie tokens and Grave titans to save the said Karn.
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"Some call it a Habit, Cardboard Crack Addict
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Yea, those are MTG Bars. What can I say, I am a dork
Yeah admittedly it was pretty bad. However, he DID top 8 a 400 person tournament, which says something. He probably was tired and it seems like the games he plays can take forever. I know I definitely would get tired.
You gotta admit that it took some cojones to take MBC to a Standard tournament. I don't hear anything about MBC around here and I personally didn't think it's good enough. I guess with the prevalence of Cavern of Souls, UB is not strictly better.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Sounds like he just succumbed to the pressure of being in an on camera T8 match. He obviously doesn't make those kinds of mistakes regularly, or he wouldn't be in T8.
Making T8 with MBC seems like good fortune than anything else. BSZ is a nice sweeper, but it takes an awful lot of mana for it to kill a resto angel(nevermind one with a sword) or a titan.
Currently Playing:
Standard: RWB Dega Burn RWB
Modern: 1 Top Control 1
Legacy: XU Manaless Blue Dredge XU
EDH: Edric, Spymaster of Tres 1UG
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy 1UBR
Which taking down a 26 player FNM pool is even remotely close to top 8ing at a SCG event with over 400 players.
Everyone makes play mistakes and he did so with a deck that hasn't top 8ed before in any standard competitive scene in the past 8 months.
Please don't bash players doing better than you. I doubt you could have bluffed a swamp as a doom blade to keep the game going.
the unfortunate thing is that when it really counted, his play wasn't that tight. The mistakes he made were really glaring and probably cost him the game. Maybe next time he can handle the pressure a little better.
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Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk
Not sure how some of those lists got on there but it did make my long day worthwhile to see my list wandering around (even though there are so many changes I want to make).
You guys must not follow SCG Mike Flores. Dude has been priming a MBC and it is well positioned to run threw delver (while also being easier to pilot the solar flare). It doesn't take balls to play a deck with great match ups vs delver when delver potentially represents 50% of a field. The play was awful why defend it?
the unfortunate thing is that when it really counted, his play wasn't that tight. The mistakes he made were really glaring and probably cost him the game. Maybe next time he can handle the pressure a little better.
Considering how long you generally have to play to top 8, I think at that point it becomes something of an endurance test. I'd feel exhausted at that point, and you might slip up, make play errors you never would simply because of lapses in thought. Camera pressure doesn't do well for that either.
Considering how long you generally have to play to top 8, I think at that point it becomes something of an endurance test. I'd feel exhausted at that point, and you might slip up, make play errors you never would simply because of lapses in thought. Camera pressure doesn't do well for that either.
but look at other Top 8 players at say this or a GP or PT, they still keep playing pretty sharp despite playing an entire weekend including late night testing. I mean it all comes with experience and how well they can handle it.
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but look at other Top 8 players at say this or a GP or PT, they still keep playing pretty sharp despite playing an entire weekend including late night testing. I mean it all comes with experience and how well they can handle it.
Fair point. You really need to be ready, body and mind for it.
You guys must not follow SCG Mike Flores. Dude has been priming a MBC and it is well positioned to run threw delver (while also being easier to pilot the solar flare). It doesn't take balls to play a deck with great match ups vs delver when delver potentially represents 50% of a field. The play was awful why defend it?
The article is only for "premium" members, so that may keep some people out (myself included). Not to mention, there is a lot of Flores hate. For these reasons, many people may not know of his list. Also I think it's a very recent article.
Unfortunately for players in feature matches on camera, the plays they make will be remembered by everyone. No one knows how well they had previously played. We can only speculate.
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Legacy - Sneak Show, BR Reanimator, Miracles, UW Stoneblade
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/ Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander - Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build) (dead format for me)
Sounds like he just succumbed to the pressure of being in an on camera T8 match. He obviously doesn't make those kinds of mistakes regularly, or he wouldn't be in T8.
Making T8 with MBC seems like good fortune than anything else. BSZ is a nice sweeper, but it takes an awful lot of mana for it to kill a resto angel(nevermind one with a sword) or a titan.
He didn't play great in the other match of his they showed earlier either. Missing triggers (forgot a card off his Robot for instance)
However, as others have said, it's a long day, he's on TV for the first time and you can't randomly throw together the deck he took without being very strong.
Side note. There was a lot of awful play in this tournament. People were playing to fast it seemed and as a result making a ton of mistakes. Also so many misused ponders. Players should refer to Aj Sacher "Pondering Brainstorm".
Delver is a phenomenal deck, and I've been pretty vocal in defending it, and saying nothing should be banned (though Snapcaster will only get better targets, and could fuel something broken in the future).
And I think now we're seeing why: it's not a deck that can still just dominate when people are prepared for it. People have caught on with Cavern. It's not that Cavern is the answer: it's that it's an answer.
Delver's great strength is incremental advantage (that create blowout scenarios), and essentially being able to play everything on your turn. Cavern makes sure that their removal is restricted to Snag, and Gut Shot, neither of which are ideal when the cards coming out are Blade Splicers, and Huntmasters. If you can stop that modest U/W avalanche, you're already ahead.
This probably explains the prevalence of Naya at Seattle since Brian Kibler has been pretty vocal about Naya's matchup against Delver, and decks in general that can compete but that people have been unwilling to experiment with or test. Delver will still be great up until rotation, but it's not Cawblade and never was.
Delver has always reminded more of Boat Brew than anything. It's a strange comparison in some ways since that was R/W, but I think they operate in fundamentally similar ways.
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Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
His list was very different then Flores's lists (there were 3 different ones in his latest article), which revolved around wellspring recursion and ran only 22 land. They both run Solemn, but Phillip ran talisman and sphere instead of wellsprings, and ran 25 land. They also have very different threat and removal packages.
He may have been inspired by Flores, but his deck is more of a ramp deck than anything else.
For the MBC player, there were a lot of play mistakes on his part, but the deck still managed to pull through, which should say enough for the deck on its own. Flores has been endorsing Mono Black Control for the past week or so, but his version was a bit different from Phil Johnson's, bearing a bit more resemblance to a Tezzeret deck, but it's a safe assumption that Flores' deck was a jumping point for Johnson's.
Is anyone local or considered going? What do you think of Mono Black?
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
Which taking down a 26 player FNM pool is even remotely close to top 8ing at a SCG event with over 400 players.
Everyone makes play mistakes and he did so with a deck that hasn't top 8ed before in any standard competitive scene in the past 8 months.
Please don't bash players doing better than you. I doubt you could have bluffed a swamp as a doom blade to keep the game going.
I probably also would not doom blade my own Griselbrand when I had the board locked up, or not exile a creature with Karn, or forget my wurmcoil tokens, or just throwing away zombie tokens and Grave titans to save the said Karn.
Tried to pull away, but now I'm Back At it
Love is Emphatic, cards need to be played
Hailing from the BA, accumulating CA"
You gotta admit that it took some cojones to take MBC to a Standard tournament. I don't hear anything about MBC around here and I personally didn't think it's good enough. I guess with the prevalence of Cavern of Souls, UB is not strictly better.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)Making T8 with MBC seems like good fortune than anything else. BSZ is a nice sweeper, but it takes an awful lot of mana for it to kill a resto angel(nevermind one with a sword) or a titan.
www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/940_top_16_standard_decklists.html
Standard: RWB Dega Burn RWB
Modern: 1 Top Control 1
Legacy: XU Manaless Blue Dredge XU
EDH: Edric, Spymaster of Tres 1UG
Mishra, Artificer Prodigy 1UBR
I miss casting Snapcaster Mage + Rampant Growth
the unfortunate thing is that when it really counted, his play wasn't that tight. The mistakes he made were really glaring and probably cost him the game. Maybe next time he can handle the pressure a little better.
Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk
Not sure how some of those lists got on there but it did make my long day worthwhile to see my list wandering around (even though there are so many changes I want to make).
Considering how long you generally have to play to top 8, I think at that point it becomes something of an endurance test. I'd feel exhausted at that point, and you might slip up, make play errors you never would simply because of lapses in thought. Camera pressure doesn't do well for that either.
but look at other Top 8 players at say this or a GP or PT, they still keep playing pretty sharp despite playing an entire weekend including late night testing. I mean it all comes with experience and how well they can handle it.
Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk
Fair point. You really need to be ready, body and mind for it.
The article is only for "premium" members, so that may keep some people out (myself included). Not to mention, there is a lot of Flores hate. For these reasons, many people may not know of his list. Also I think it's a very recent article.
Unfortunately for players in feature matches on camera, the plays they make will be remembered by everyone. No one knows how well they had previously played. We can only speculate.
Premodern - Trix, RecSur, Enchantress, Reanimator, Elves https://www.facebook.com/groups/PremodernUSA/
Modern - Neobrand, Hogaak Vine, Elves
Standard - Mono Red (6-2 and 5-3 in 2 McQ)
Draft - (I wish I had more time for limited...)
Commander -
Norin the Wary, Grimgrin, Adun Oakenshield (taking forever to build)(dead format for me)He didn't play great in the other match of his they showed earlier either. Missing triggers (forgot a card off his Robot for instance)
However, as others have said, it's a long day, he's on TV for the first time and you can't randomly throw together the deck he took without being very strong.
And I think now we're seeing why: it's not a deck that can still just dominate when people are prepared for it. People have caught on with Cavern. It's not that Cavern is the answer: it's that it's an answer.
Delver's great strength is incremental advantage (that create blowout scenarios), and essentially being able to play everything on your turn. Cavern makes sure that their removal is restricted to Snag, and Gut Shot, neither of which are ideal when the cards coming out are Blade Splicers, and Huntmasters. If you can stop that modest U/W avalanche, you're already ahead.
This probably explains the prevalence of Naya at Seattle since Brian Kibler has been pretty vocal about Naya's matchup against Delver, and decks in general that can compete but that people have been unwilling to experiment with or test. Delver will still be great up until rotation, but it's not Cawblade and never was.
Delver has always reminded more of Boat Brew than anything. It's a strange comparison in some ways since that was R/W, but I think they operate in fundamentally similar ways.
Modern
Dredge, Evo-Chord, U/G Faeries, Living End, Something New
He decked himself.
He may have been inspired by Flores, but his deck is more of a ramp deck than anything else.
I believe the way that the top lists are organized is the top 16 + those who were in contention for top 16 but lost the deciding match.
WURMiraclesRWU
UBRCruel ControlRBU
If you're having fun, I'm not.
That's a little embarrassing and kind of funny.
Mabbz on MTGO | Demgrinds on Twitch & Twitter | Helpdesk