Since he's been standard legal, I've been playing Venser-based lists. Although I know he's not a top pick for most lists, I've been having some success running a Venser list that includes elements of Solar Flare. I don't know how competitive it is, but out of the last two months of FNM I've top 8'd four times, and top 4'd twice (we split winnings here). The two poorer showings I went 2 wins, and had mulligan troubles in at least one game lost. I've played against every "Competitive" archetype at least once (although I've played a lot of Wolf Run), and I've also seen a good amount of the "Developing Competitive" decks running around my store.
I was hoping that some of you guys might view my current list, and leave any comments or criticisms, so that I have a better idea of where I stand. And, plus, I'm sure some of you would appreciate looking at an unconventional list, for potentially getting inspiration of your own.
You'll notice it's primarily a white list, and this is for deliberate reasons.
Mana Leaks never really cut it for me -- they always struck me as too easy to play around. And, as quickly as the various aggro decks can beat a player down, I was never rewarded by hanging on to cast it.
Previously, I have had strong matchups to Wolf Run, Humans and Township tokens -- the Venser + Stonehorn combo will lock these guys out, and I can trump their removal without much trouble (o-ring their o-rings, unburial a dismembered stonehorn, spellskite eats stuff). But, UW Tempo's disruption made that plan too clumsy to play out, and RDW's ability to burn your face invalidated much of the point.
I still find that the Venser interaction is a very strong one; strong enough to continue playing against Wolf Run, Tokens and Humans. But, lifegain is crucial in this environment, and tried to find the most efficient cards for that gameplan.
Kemba's Skyguard will trade with a Delver of Secrets, Geist of Saint Traft or Chandra's Phoenix (if left on the field before the attack), and gains 2 life on ETB. If Vapor Snagged or killed, replaying or recurring via Sun Titan gives me the slightest of consolations; perhaps just enough to get another turn to stabilize. I find the Flying is also relevant against spirit tokens, and some fringe creatures. And furthermore, it's something to poke at control decks. Game 2 against Delver I'll swap Vensers/stonehorns out for Gideon and other relevant cards, although these guys stick around since I like as much lifegain as possible.
Glimmerpost serves for free lifegain. Although not a strong card, it can't be countered or snagged, and is both a target for Sun Titan and Venser. So, I just gain life, and it seems to buy me time (there have been plenty of games I've won at 5 or less life -- once taking a round against Delver at 1 on game 3). Running Glimmerpost really screws with your manabase, though, so this is another reason why I have to favor a single color, only splashing the black and blue in my deck (Disperse is somewhat serving as a singleton Doom Blade - it at least kills a token or resets a shrine, whereas the Dismember I treat like Gut Shot that also hits Hero of Bladehold and such). Of additional note is that I have to run fewer Ghost Quarters, although Wolf Run - where I find the Quarter most relevant - seldom has removal for the other function of the deck, the Venser + Stonehorn lock.
Sphere of the Suns wasn't a card I originally wanted to play as a 4-of, or even at all. I know the lifegain of Pristine Talisman is very potent, but since my deck needs fixing with its ramp, this seemed the best decision. Kemba's and Glimmerpost help to compensate for its loss.
I don't think I need to explain the uses of Sun Titan, Image or Elesh Norn here -- although I will note that the Stonehorn Dignitary and Kemba's are nice with her interaction.
Between Titans, Elesh and the Venser lock, I think I have a versatile list that can play well against many decks in the meta. And, it's really fun to play.
Again, I'd appreciate any comments or criticisms of the decklist's choices or overall strategy. I'm very interested in continuing to play this deck, and making it better where I can. Thanks!
I know your going for Kemba as a good recur/venser target, but in my opinion he's meh. I use 2 Blade Splicers for my Sun Titans (It's a traditional Flare list) and he does amazing work. I'd try him.
I know your going for Kemba as a good recur/venser target, but in my opinion he's meh. I use 2 Blade Splicers for my Sun Titans (It's a traditional Flare list) and he does amazing work. I'd try him.
The ONLY thing that's good about Kemba is that it flies. Otherwise, 100% agree.
That said, the entire idea of Venser in Flare seems questionable to me. That, combined with how creature heavy this is...
I have to disagree with the assessments of kimba. With vapor snag and insectile abarition being some of your largest threats in today's meta, kimba seems to come out on top.
Kimba will trade with deliver all day long, and you are ok with them vapor snagging him.
My problem with the deck is dismember. You will be paying life way more often then not, and your targets will usually be a x/1 so I don't think it would be out of line to play 3 gut shots main.
Also, in my experience, tumble magnet works wonders in venser decks, so I think you should find time to test him.
As far as the solar flare aspect, I usually think 3 sun titans is the correct number. But I'm just not sure
i would still really like to hear how people handle Solar Flare i have been surprise intercourse with that for a while now what is your gameplan and what do you sideboard in and out?
i would still really like to hear how people handle Solar Flare i have been surprise intercourse with that for a while now what is your gameplan and what do you sideboard in and out?
Venser is mostly a do nothing permanent. It helps you only when you are ahead and does nothing when you are behind and trying to claw back into the game. I would strongly suggest gideon or something over it.
Venser is mostly a do nothing permanent. It helps you only when you are ahead and does nothing when you are behind and trying to claw back into the game. I would strongly suggest gideon or something over it.
i just disagree with this assessment. in most decks this is the case. But i believe you can build a deck around him and have some success. I don't believe it will be on par with conventional solar flare lists, but it can still make a powerful list.
in the list provided, you can already see the lifegain potential with either kimba or glimmerpost. the constant skip combat can be a pain for many players, and don't forget repeat titan triggers.
If he adds in some tumble magnets, i could see some nice recharge interactions. and he can already recharge the spheres.
something else i would like to see added would be a mortorpod for a repeatable gutshot effect. not to mention the good old exile my titan, wrath the board, get back a titan.
venser may not be the nuts, but he can be a fun effective walker to toy with.
venser is a "do nothing walker" just about as often as sun titan is just a 6/6 vigilance.
i would still really like to hear how people handle Solar Flare i have been surprise intercourse with that for a while now what is your gameplan and what do you sideboard in and out?
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I was hoping that some of you guys might view my current list, and leave any comments or criticisms, so that I have a better idea of where I stand. And, plus, I'm sure some of you would appreciate looking at an unconventional list, for potentially getting inspiration of your own.
6 Plains
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Glimmerpost
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Seachrome Coast
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Swamp
Creatures (11)
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Kemba's Skyguard
3 Stonehorn Dignitary
2 Sun Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
2 Dismember
1 Disperse
4 Forbidden Alchemy
3 Day of Judgment
1 Unburial Rites
Artifacts (6)
2 Ratchet Bomb
4 Sphere of the Suns
Enchantments (4)
1 Pacifism
3 Oblivion Ring
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Venser, the Sojourner
2 Celestial Purge
1 Phantasmal Image
2 Spellskite
2 Blade Splicer
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Timely Reinforcements
1 Day of Judgment
1 Stonehorn Dignitary
2 Gideon Jura
You'll notice it's primarily a white list, and this is for deliberate reasons.
Mana Leaks never really cut it for me -- they always struck me as too easy to play around. And, as quickly as the various aggro decks can beat a player down, I was never rewarded by hanging on to cast it.
Previously, I have had strong matchups to Wolf Run, Humans and Township tokens -- the Venser + Stonehorn combo will lock these guys out, and I can trump their removal without much trouble (o-ring their o-rings, unburial a dismembered stonehorn, spellskite eats stuff). But, UW Tempo's disruption made that plan too clumsy to play out, and RDW's ability to burn your face invalidated much of the point.
I still find that the Venser interaction is a very strong one; strong enough to continue playing against Wolf Run, Tokens and Humans. But, lifegain is crucial in this environment, and tried to find the most efficient cards for that gameplan.
Kemba's Skyguard will trade with a Delver of Secrets, Geist of Saint Traft or Chandra's Phoenix (if left on the field before the attack), and gains 2 life on ETB. If Vapor Snagged or killed, replaying or recurring via Sun Titan gives me the slightest of consolations; perhaps just enough to get another turn to stabilize. I find the Flying is also relevant against spirit tokens, and some fringe creatures. And furthermore, it's something to poke at control decks. Game 2 against Delver I'll swap Vensers/stonehorns out for Gideon and other relevant cards, although these guys stick around since I like as much lifegain as possible.
Glimmerpost serves for free lifegain. Although not a strong card, it can't be countered or snagged, and is both a target for Sun Titan and Venser. So, I just gain life, and it seems to buy me time (there have been plenty of games I've won at 5 or less life -- once taking a round against Delver at 1 on game 3). Running Glimmerpost really screws with your manabase, though, so this is another reason why I have to favor a single color, only splashing the black and blue in my deck (Disperse is somewhat serving as a singleton Doom Blade - it at least kills a token or resets a shrine, whereas the Dismember I treat like Gut Shot that also hits Hero of Bladehold and such). Of additional note is that I have to run fewer Ghost Quarters, although Wolf Run - where I find the Quarter most relevant - seldom has removal for the other function of the deck, the Venser + Stonehorn lock.
Sphere of the Suns wasn't a card I originally wanted to play as a 4-of, or even at all. I know the lifegain of Pristine Talisman is very potent, but since my deck needs fixing with its ramp, this seemed the best decision. Kemba's and Glimmerpost help to compensate for its loss.
I don't think I need to explain the uses of Sun Titan, Image or Elesh Norn here -- although I will note that the Stonehorn Dignitary and Kemba's are nice with her interaction.
Between Titans, Elesh and the Venser lock, I think I have a versatile list that can play well against many decks in the meta. And, it's really fun to play.
Again, I'd appreciate any comments or criticisms of the decklist's choices or overall strategy. I'm very interested in continuing to play this deck, and making it better where I can. Thanks!
- whhhhhaaat?
Standard Decks:
UBRGrixis ControlRBU
The ONLY thing that's good about Kemba is that it flies. Otherwise, 100% agree.
That said, the entire idea of Venser in Flare seems questionable to me. That, combined with how creature heavy this is...
Kimba will trade with deliver all day long, and you are ok with them vapor snagging him.
My problem with the deck is dismember. You will be paying life way more often then not, and your targets will usually be a x/1 so I don't think it would be out of line to play 3 gut shots main.
Also, in my experience, tumble magnet works wonders in venser decks, so I think you should find time to test him.
As far as the solar flare aspect, I usually think 3 sun titans is the correct number. But I'm just not sure
i just disagree with this assessment. in most decks this is the case. But i believe you can build a deck around him and have some success. I don't believe it will be on par with conventional solar flare lists, but it can still make a powerful list.
in the list provided, you can already see the lifegain potential with either kimba or glimmerpost. the constant skip combat can be a pain for many players, and don't forget repeat titan triggers.
If he adds in some tumble magnets, i could see some nice recharge interactions. and he can already recharge the spheres.
something else i would like to see added would be a mortorpod for a repeatable gutshot effect. not to mention the good old exile my titan, wrath the board, get back a titan.
venser may not be the nuts, but he can be a fun effective walker to toy with.
venser is a "do nothing walker" just about as often as sun titan is just a 6/6 vigilance.