I really like the looks of undead alchemist but haven't see anyone try and break him as of yet.
Do anyone think his kind of zombie deck is viable in competitive format?
or is he just one of those cards that looks to have potential but really isn't practical?
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A little too pricey. I always say, go for the crazy deck and see what you get. He has good interaction with Forbidden Alchemy and every control player in the format runs 4 of those. Therefore, he is pretty decent. However, mill needs to have a lot of control, and he doesn't really have a way to protect himself, and he is a 4/2. If there is an easy way to protect him (say through excessive counters, but still not practical, maybe spellskite), and you were running a Drownyard mill deck, he might not be too shabby. Build it and see.
Also, don't listen to narrow advice such as "bad card is bad." It isn't helpful, just build and figure it out, then surprise people.
i just saw your rules posting in the rules forum, and my jaw dropped because I completely over looked the possible interactions of his ability with milling your opponent from other sources of mill aside from just zombie attacks.
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The biggest problem I have with him is that he replaces damage with mill rather than milling + damage. What this means is that you are running 2 different win con styles in the same deck. It also means that all of your early damage means nothing once you drop and protect this guy. Compare it with something like trepanation blade that mills and still adds damage.
The biggest problem I have with him is that he replaces damage with mill rather than milling + damage. What this means is that you are running 2 different win con styles in the same deck. It also means that all of your early damage means nothing once you drop and protect this guy. Compare it with something like trepanation blade that mills and still adds damage.
Personally i would rather have full-on mill or full-on damage rather than having a little bit of both. I would want 1 strong win condition rather than 2 weak ones.
Not saying that having more than 1 win condition is bad, but for example in Wolf run, you can do the infect-or-damage plan easily because the deck can focus on one. If you go with trep. blade, you do a mediocre amount of mill and a mediocre amount of dmg; unlike using wolfrun to go full on infect with your inkmoth, or using wolfrun to go full on damage trample your dungrove/titan.
But in the end, I would probably not recommend any sort of mill deck in the current meta, there are solarflare and control matchups that utilize the grave really well.
Have pure mill + protect this fella. The latter will be the challenge, but just make a control deck (U/B) and try to mill at the end step (with the addition of Jace, Memory Adept) and some Surgical Extractions and you will be set against flare. Also, Dream Twist seems pretty darn good at instant speed.
That being said, he can be decent, if he stays protected, while milling your opponents.
i actually think the ability of the card is more potent than it seems. its not terrible, though it has a disappointingly low toughness for a 4 mana creature.
i think the biggest issue is that this card is designed to synergize with zombies that you have cast on turns 1-3. its basically a lord that lets your midgame attacks build a kind of momentum that can be hard for an opponent to overcome with anything short of a board sweeper. the problem is that there's a shortage of aggressive zombies for this card to synergize with.
i think the biggest issue is that this card is designed to synergize with zombies that you have cast on turns 1-3. its basically a lord that lets your midgame attacks build a kind of momentum that can be hard for an opponent to overcome with anything short of a board sweeper. the problem is that there's a shortage of aggressive zombies for this card to synergize with.
At least in blue, in blue black, not terrible. I think as a compliment to a mill strategy, it could be good. Not a deck built around it, but instead put into an already working mill shell, exiling value cards from a graveyard, while getting blockers, while swinging for mill. I think I might try it in my blue black mill, and continually mill using other cards like J,MA and Dream Twist. Along with the drownyard of course. Especially with J,MA, you mill them 10 and hit 3 creatures, you get 3 2/2 zombies that means that they will mill for 6 next turn (if they don't have blockers) and that you have blockers for J,MA (which is important). If they board wipe, then J,MA is still safe. Seems better and better the more logic that is applied.
now that you mention using jace with this card it suddenly looks even better in a mill deck.
where is tome scour when we need it. or even sanity grinding.
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Sword of Body and Mind and him get along great together. I personally think he would be a decent addition to a mill deck, but unfortunately the way this game is you'd be better off just running U/B control with a couple Jace, Memory Adepts thrown in.
Sword of Body and Mind and him get along great together. I personally think he would be a decent addition to a mill deck, but unfortunately the way this game is you'd be better off just running U/B control with a couple Jace, Memory Adepts thrown in.
Uhhh, actually there is no synergy at all with those 2 cards.
I really like him except for his 2 toughness. In a world without bolt they could have made him a 4/3. I played him in a UB Zombie/control/mill setup (online for fun) and unanswered he can generate lots of zombies which generate lots of milling.
The good thing is that he generates the zombies no matter what puts the opponents creatures from the library to the graveyard (like Dream Twist or Drownyard) so you don't even need to be able to attack with him.
Lately I've been thinking about him as the only creature in a heavy control/mil setup.
(For the record, I love trying to make bad cards good)
its not fast but the zombies can become very overwhelming mid game...
i run him in my UB Zombie Mill...
him plus jace, plus dream twist, it all adds up.
Eats a bowl of shocks for breakfast, and cant block without folding in half himself.
I like him, but don't think he's going to see much use.
control decks run maybe 7 creatures total, so you wont be amassing armies, and aggro decks can block him without caring much.
I think you're better off combo milling than using him currently.
Maybe Dark Ascention will change that.
I don't really get it. When this creature is on the battlefield, your opponent's life total increases to become the number of cards in his deck. Unless you're in a dedicated mill deck, he doesn't make sense. And if you are playing a dedicated mill deck, he doesn't do enough to warrant a spot.
I've successfully used this guy with Grimgrin, Corpse-Born in my zombie deck. Now you can get in for the mills and when he's done his job you can sac him to Grimgrin to get the damage through. He was in the side though as a two of just in case I ran into a creature heavy deck.
he has to be in a dedicated mill deck yes....
and yes he eats shocks. so do other creatures..does that make them bad to play?
t3 cemetery reaper... usually gonna eat their removal first. no biggie
t4 undead alchemist
t5 jace.... use 0 ability hopefully getting at least 1-2 zombies from the alchemist... then swing with the alchemist... even if he eat removal at some point you got the tokens out of him which eventually leads to the overwhelming zombie hoards
Do anyone think his kind of zombie deck is viable in competitive format?
or is he just one of those cards that looks to have potential but really isn't practical?
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Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
Also, don't listen to narrow advice such as "bad card is bad." It isn't helpful, just build and figure it out, then surprise people.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
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Personally i would rather have full-on mill or full-on damage rather than having a little bit of both. I would want 1 strong win condition rather than 2 weak ones.
Not saying that having more than 1 win condition is bad, but for example in Wolf run, you can do the infect-or-damage plan easily because the deck can focus on one. If you go with trep. blade, you do a mediocre amount of mill and a mediocre amount of dmg; unlike using wolfrun to go full on infect with your inkmoth, or using wolfrun to go full on damage trample your dungrove/titan.
But in the end, I would probably not recommend any sort of mill deck in the current meta, there are solarflare and control matchups that utilize the grave really well.
That being said, he can be decent, if he stays protected, while milling your opponents.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
i think the biggest issue is that this card is designed to synergize with zombies that you have cast on turns 1-3. its basically a lord that lets your midgame attacks build a kind of momentum that can be hard for an opponent to overcome with anything short of a board sweeper. the problem is that there's a shortage of aggressive zombies for this card to synergize with.
At least in blue, in blue black, not terrible. I think as a compliment to a mill strategy, it could be good. Not a deck built around it, but instead put into an already working mill shell, exiling value cards from a graveyard, while getting blockers, while swinging for mill. I think I might try it in my blue black mill, and continually mill using other cards like J,MA and Dream Twist. Along with the drownyard of course. Especially with J,MA, you mill them 10 and hit 3 creatures, you get 3 2/2 zombies that means that they will mill for 6 next turn (if they don't have blockers) and that you have blockers for J,MA (which is important). If they board wipe, then J,MA is still safe. Seems better and better the more logic that is applied.
MTGS egos at their finest.
Thoughts on proxies:
where is tome scour when we need it. or even sanity grinding.
Twitter- RogueSource.
Decks: "Name one! I probably got it built In one of these boxes."
---------------------------------------------------
Vintage will rise again! Buy a Mox today!
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[I]Some call it dig through time, when really your digging through CRAP!
Merfolk! showing magic players what a shower is since Lorwyn!
GUB The Mimeoplasm GUB
RGW Mayael the Anima RGW
GGG Seton, Krosan Protector GGG
Uhhh, actually there is no synergy at all with those 2 cards.
On topic:
T1 Diregraf Ghoul
T2 Swing 2 play walking corpse
T3 Play Cemetery Reaper, swing 6
T4 Alchemist and swing to mill 8...
Not very exciting. A controlling deck could be good with him though.
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The good thing is that he generates the zombies no matter what puts the opponents creatures from the library to the graveyard (like Dream Twist or Drownyard) so you don't even need to be able to attack with him.
Lately I've been thinking about him as the only creature in a heavy control/mil setup.
(For the record, I love trying to make bad cards good)
i run him in my UB Zombie Mill...
him plus jace, plus dream twist, it all adds up.
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Thoughts on proxies:
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I like him, but don't think he's going to see much use.
control decks run maybe 7 creatures total, so you wont be amassing armies, and aggro decks can block him without caring much.
I think you're better off combo milling than using him currently.
Maybe Dark Ascention will change that.
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and yes he eats shocks. so do other creatures..does that make them bad to play?
t3 cemetery reaper... usually gonna eat their removal first. no biggie
t4 undead alchemist
t5 jace.... use 0 ability hopefully getting at least 1-2 zombies from the alchemist... then swing with the alchemist... even if he eat removal at some point you got the tokens out of him which eventually leads to the overwhelming zombie hoards
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