I'm still in the middle of what to put in. I like Spined Thopter's evasive body but at the same time, like Legionnaire's body when on the defense. I might run both separately to see how the deck runs.
-Legionnaire is definitely more aggressive. Its first strike makes people not want to block it anyway so Spined Thopter having evasion is irrelevant between the two. The extra one damage is always good.
-You can pay for the white if you want, easily (in mono white version)
-Both have toughness one.
I basically board out legionnaire in every match up because it is so terrible but we just need extra good beaters in the MB and thats why they're there.
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Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
Lots of people play Spellskite, Overgrown Battlement, and Wall of Omens which makes Legionnaire quite a bit easier to block. Not to mention if a control deck uses Timely Reinforcements against us they have 3 turns of chump blockers for it. I think basically though for each of them it boils down to:
Spined Thopter:
+Flying lets it evade walls and most chump blockers to punch through extra damage
-Squadron Hawks easily trade with it
-Unlikely to be able to pay blue in WW version (not always relevant but worth noting)
Porcelain Legionnaire:
+Has an extra point of power which can sometimes be relevant. First Strike gives it pseudo-evasion at times as opponents may be reluctant to chump block.
+Can always pay the W mana in pretty much any version.
-If the opponent wants to chump block it to save time they easily can do so. This can sometimes buy them enough time to resolve a board wipe.
I think overall it depends on your meta. If lots of people have Hawks and other fliers then Thopter is pretty bad (the reason I currently use Legionnaire) but if they do not and there's a lot of ground guys and walls then Thopter is quite a bit better.
I would say legionnaire without a doubt. It is a lot more of a threat than almost any other creature in the deck. When i play against tempered steel this is the card i fear most when hitting the table.
I play the Thopters now because my meta is very Hawk-Lite. If I was running Mono White still I'd probably still have the Legionnaires, but I only run 2 Thopters and those get side-boarded out a lot.
I dont run either right now, but i'd prefer running hovermyr anyways. It may be a 1/2 rather than 2/1, but, i have to deal with squadron hawks alot, and the vigilance lets me attack with it, then have it stick around to rid myself of those pesky little things.
porcelain legionnaire will always be better then thopter aslong as hawks and ground aggro are an issue. A 5-3 first striker is a monster threat and a 3-1 is a good defense while everything else is pecking away at the other deck. I really have no desire to pay 2 life trade with a hawk and have my opponent be up 3 cards.
I dont run either right now, but i'd prefer running hovermyr anyways. It may be a 1/2 rather than 2/1, but, i have to deal with squadron hawks alot, and the vigilance lets me attack with it, then have it stick around to rid myself of those pesky little things.
Hovermyr is probably even better than Thopter. I just forgot he existed. :/
I use Spirit Mantle on my Legionnaire in this deck and it can become Nasty. Especially if it has Tempered Steel behind it and a couple counters from the Overseer.
I use Spirit Mantle on my Legionnaire in this deck and it can become Nasty. Especially if it has Tempered Steel behind it and a couple counters from the Overseer.
counters from overseer of TS are a beating by themselves
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Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
I don't see any good reason to run either, to be honest. I've sided Legionaires out in every matchup (caw-blade included), and I recently swapped Hovermyr (which would have been the Thopter if I didn't find the myr so adorable) for Glint Hawk Idols in the main. I honestly just don't see the room to run them.
That said, if I had to pick between them, I'd probably go with the Thopter most of the time. Certainly the Legionaire is stronger versus Caw-blade, but outside that match up the evasion is what really tips this deck over the edge (if memnite weren't free, I'd probably cut it tbh).
I prefer Legionnaire because, with a Tempered Steel out, it is a pretty big threat most of the time. Even without it, it is still a pretty good creature. Plus, it is essentially a 2-cost creature, rather than Blade Splicer being 3. Sometimes you don't have 3 mana, and that's when it'll suck. You could argue the same with Tempered Steel, but Tempered Steel is much better for this deck than Blade Splicer, IMO.
I guess you have a point but i usually dont get screwed with mana specialy if you have an opal in play.. for meta wise (Mass removal) i pref. blade splicer and bec. there is alot of 2 ccs main i usually hold the card till i got mass removed then cast splicer, great board advantage
I prefer Legionnaire because, with a Tempered Steel out, it is a pretty big threat most of the time. Even without it, it is still a pretty good creature. Plus, it is essentially a 2-cost creature, rather than Blade Splicer being 3. Sometimes you don't have 3 mana, and that's when it'll suck. You could argue the same with Tempered Steel, but Tempered Steel is much better for this deck than Blade Splicer, IMO.
Is a 2 drop with 1 power aggressive enough for this deck?
Not really... vigilance doesnt really matter with this deck either. We arent worried about blocking with a 1/2 are we? I think the speed would drop far to much to include this guy. Metalcraft on Mox and dispatch is less likely.
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:symw::symg:G/W Wolf Run:symg::symw:
84-10 W/G/r WWR Record
1st Place: SCG IQ: Fountain, CO.
2nd Place: States: Colorado
3 byes for Salt Lake City GP
If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?
Vince Lombardi
Not really... vigilance doesnt really matter with this deck either. We arent worried about blocking with a 1/2 are we? I think the speed would drop far to much to include this guy. Metalcraft on Mox and dispatch is less likely.
I happily ran Hovermyr for a while. He easily swings for one in the air, and he's provides a convenient defense. Temper his Steel, and he starts swinging three while providing a defense comparable to a non-Tempered Spellskite, while serving basically the same purpose as Ornithopter (when you're not bouncing it for Glint Hawk).
After Glint Hawk stops being as viable, I think Hovermyr could be a new key Flier.
What does everybody else think?
Actually probably RDW as well because Legionnaire forces them to use their burn since they can't really attack into it favorably.
-You can pay for the white if you want, easily (in mono white version)
-Both have toughness one.
I basically board out legionnaire in every match up because it is so terrible but we just need extra good beaters in the MB and thats why they're there.
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
Spined Thopter:
+Flying lets it evade walls and most chump blockers to punch through extra damage
-Squadron Hawks easily trade with it
-Unlikely to be able to pay blue in WW version (not always relevant but worth noting)
Porcelain Legionnaire:
+Has an extra point of power which can sometimes be relevant. First Strike gives it pseudo-evasion at times as opponents may be reluctant to chump block.
+Can always pay the W mana in pretty much any version.
-If the opponent wants to chump block it to save time they easily can do so. This can sometimes buy them enough time to resolve a board wipe.
I think overall it depends on your meta. If lots of people have Hawks and other fliers then Thopter is pretty bad (the reason I currently use Legionnaire) but if they do not and there's a lot of ground guys and walls then Thopter is quite a bit better.
Hovermyr is probably even better than Thopter. I just forgot he existed. :/
Just my 2 cents
RGW Rith, the Awakener
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so did i, until someone (forget who) suggested it, i think back when this was in standard deck creation forum.
Vault Skirge is
But as for cards we actually cast for 2 mana, unless its named Steel Overseer I wouldn't run it.
counters from overseer of TS are a beating by themselves
Modern:
Affinity
EDH:
Rhys (Tokens)
Karrthus (Dragons)
Bruna (Auras OP)
That said, if I had to pick between them, I'd probably go with the Thopter most of the time. Certainly the Legionaire is stronger versus Caw-blade, but outside that match up the evasion is what really tips this deck over the edge (if memnite weren't free, I'd probably cut it tbh).
For me, i pref. blade splice bec. it provides board advantage plus golem is 3/3. the first strike ability is just a bonus for me
Do you guys disagree or not?
Not really... vigilance doesnt really matter with this deck either. We arent worried about blocking with a 1/2 are we? I think the speed would drop far to much to include this guy. Metalcraft on Mox and dispatch is less likely.
84-10 W/G/r WWR Record
1st Place: SCG IQ: Fountain, CO.
2nd Place: States: Colorado
3 byes for Salt Lake City GP
If it doesn't matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?
Vince Lombardi
Art by HAKAI STUDIOS!
I happily ran Hovermyr for a while. He easily swings for one in the air, and he's provides a convenient defense. Temper his Steel, and he starts swinging three while providing a defense comparable to a non-Tempered Spellskite, while serving basically the same purpose as Ornithopter (when you're not bouncing it for Glint Hawk).
After Glint Hawk stops being as viable, I think Hovermyr could be a new key Flier.
WWWA White mage if you ever saw one.WWW