I think we can safely logically assume that certain cards are very likely to be reprinted.
Ravnica shocklands are first on the list: Modern is a new format, they want to keep its cost of entry low (compared to legacy as an eternal format), so a reprint is likely. It has also been sometime since they have had that good of mana in Standard - the synergy with the Innistrad enemy duals is sweet for Standard, but not broken.
Lightning Helix, Faith's Fetters, Mortify, Putrefy are all good cards that were never broken and made Standard have a diverse set of answers to creatures across almost all colors. For similar reasons, we might see a Terminate reprint.
Spell Snare is a probably reprint. It is again, a non-broken super versatile counter spell. Mental-Mistep but not broken (you're always up mana, and 2 drops are very important - gives control a useful early counter spell). Remand is also another candidate (but much much smaller likelihood).
I do not think we'll get split card reprints, overall. I will admit that if they were to bring back Hit//Run and other multi-color split cards this would be the most logical block to do so.
Guildmages could see a reprint. They're aggressively costed bears with upside. In particular Selesnya Guildmage has huge synergy with token strategies in Standard.
Obviously Niv-Mizzet could see a reprint and I think Ghost Council is not out of the question. Both were arguably 2 of the most popular legends of their color pair, and both were strong but not broken (although either or both might see an upgrade).
Signets are the next most likely reprint, but I highly doubt it.
I would be surprised if Wizards goes and reprints a lot of the good uncommons and commons. Filling a block with reprints from an older block sounds like a lazy way of recreating a past "feeling". I would like to give more credit to Wizard's creativity.
They must reprint the signets and the guildmages in my opinion.
Apart from those, there is nothing I would reprint. Though I heard a lot of you wish for shocklands.
For me Rav was all about the flavor. And therefore, the ten original guilds must be in the set, with their most common identifiers.
The guilds aren't together anymore, from what I understand. At least, not in their original form. It's more than likely, I would think, that the remnants of each guild will be visible in RTR and the rest of the block, but I wouldn't bet on all of the guildmages returning, with the lack of guilds.
Yes, but a Ravnica without guilds would just be Coruscant. It wouldn't be Ravnica. It's like printing "Return to Miroddin" without artifacts..
Yes, and that's why I made the in-their-orignal-form statement. Scars of Mirrodin had artifacts, and it felt like Mirrodin, but there were new and fresh things going on there, too.
As you can see, not a whole lot. I doubt they reprint the shock lands, tbh they were simply too good. Besides, it's better for them to print a new type of dual lands so people buy more packs looking for them.
If you want reprints from Ravnica in Standard, you're far better off hoping they are in M13.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if wizards reprinted the Shocklands and maybe Dark Confidant just to lower the prices in Modern. That being said I highly doubt will get more then a handful of reprints since the good people at wotc aren't in the business to be lazy designers and just throw a reprint block at us. However I could also see them making a totally new version of wedge shocks or even bolts at that point. Something like
Fountain of Blood
Land - Mountain Plains Swamp
add , or to your manapool
As Fountain of Blood enters the battlefield you may pay 3 life. If you don't, it enters tapped.
or
Overgrown Shrine
Land - Forest Swamp Plains
add , or to your manapool
As Overgrown Shrine enters the battlefield you may pay 3 life. If you don't. it enters tapped.
This would actually make quite a bit of sense since it would solve some of the problem of the price barrier for Modern and allow players to have the feeling of "shocks" back, but it costs you a little more and they wouldn't have to spend 10 slots on rare lands during the block, only 5.
Stoogeslap
But instead of the ETB tapped wording, maybe lose 1 or 2 life... which could be synergistic with bloodlust, if it returns.
Bloodlust triggers off of damage being dealt.While damage does cause you to lose life,life lose isnt damage.Theirs a reason why Taste of Blood dosen't cause the targeted player to lose 1 like normaly does.Because it triggers bloodlust since it deals damage.
Kr@cked
Ravnica shocklands are first on the list: Modern is a new format, they want to keep its cost of entry low (compared to legacy as an eternal format), so a reprint is likely.
Obviously Niv-Mizzet could see a reprint and I think Ghost Council is not out of the question.
They been hesitant to reprint them.While they arent held back by a reserve list they still have the same problem player wise.Lots of people clamor for them but a more vocal minority well nerdrage when Wizards 'ruins my investment'.They couldv'e thrown a Temple Garden into the knights deck for KvD but they didn't.
Putrefy has yet to be reprinted & Faiths Fetters was reprinted before modern.Everything else you mentioned has been reprinted after moden.Which just proves the point of them being hesitant to reprint the shcoklands.
Obviously you seem to forget that this is an expansion and not a side product like FtV,Duel Decks,Planechase,ArchEnemey or Commander.Reprinting them is entirely out of the question.
I'll end this post with words of wisdom.......They aren't just going to reprint the Rav block and tack a few planeswalkers on and call it a new block.Don't let nostolgia and/or wishful thinking blind you.It beens about a day from the PAX announcment and alot of players seem to think like this already.The only ones you'll be able to blame when your ridiculous/high expectations aren't meet is yourself.
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Obviously you seem to forget that this is an expansion and not a side product like FtV,Duel Decks,Planechase,ArchEnemey or Commander.Reprinting them is entirely out of the question.
I'll end this post with words of wisdom.......They aren't just going to reprint the Rav block and tack a few planeswalkers on and call it a new block.Don't let nostolgia and/or wishful thinking blind you.It beens about a day from the PAX announcment and alot of players seem to think like this already.The only ones you'll be able to blame when your ridiculous/high expectations aren't meet is yourself.
I'm not saying that they definitely will nor that they should. I am saying that based on the fact that the set is called Return to Ravnica, we can surmise that some cards from Ravnica are likely to be reprinted.
Since R&D for Return to Ravnica would have begun roughly 2 years ago, that coincides pretty directly with complaints about Extended becoming a stale format and perhaps the first discussions regarding what would become Modern.
Here I am speculating that of the small amount of cards reprinted, which are the most likely. Shocklands make the most sense. Yes, there is a vocal minority that will be upset about their investment being lost. Wizards has never catered exclusively to the vocal minority. They have always done what makes the most money, over the course of the long term. They have also stated that given what they know now, that they would rather the Restricted List not exist, suggesting that they believe that reprints should always be considered, regardless of secondary market prices (it makes sense from an economic stand point but I digress).
Everyone loves being able to cast their spells. Shocklands appeal to the vast majority of players, and even for those that don't like them initially, they eventually learn that using 2 life as a resource in order to have better mana is worth it. Shocklands are honestly an extremely elegant design and it seems a waste not to reuse them every 7-9 years or so. Moreover, increasing the supply allows Modern as a PTQ format to exist over the long term (contrast to Legacy which would basically be the worst PTQ format short of Vintage or Commander).
Why make new things that do what the old things do? MaRo (and I'm assuming the rest of R&D) thinks that design space is not unlimited. Given that spells like Lightning Helix and Putrefy are popular, effective and elegant designs, why try to reinvent the wheel? These uncommon removal spells have shown that they aren't oppressive in Standard, and if Extended ever picks up again it would be because the format became diversified, meaning that all colors (and color combinations) have to have powerful, useful spells.
Let's face it. Scars of Mirrodin had it's fair share of reprints, and many more cards that referenced original Mirrodin block. I'm not saying that RTR will be Ravnica with planeswalkers thrown in, nor do I want it to be. However, it seems incorrect to say that certain iconic cards (that still exist as examples of good design today) won't be reprinted, purely because RTR is an expansion and not a special product (for that matter, why is that even relevant - Scavenging Ooze is a great example of how Wizards is perfectly willing to print relevant cards in special products anyway. What format the product is for hardly matters).
Tl;DR I see no reason why Shocklands won't be reprinted, in fact all the evidence suggests they will either be reprinted in RTR OR M13.
The shocklands are going to be reprinted, but not in RTR. Maybe M13, or maybe even M14 instead. They need to make sure there isn't too much land-subtype fetching in Standard when they print the shocks, and they run into the same problem the Zendikar full-art lands have: these are extremely desirable cards. They want to keep them 'special', which is why they didn't just dump them straight into the core sets with Xth Edition like a lot of people expected.
I'm guessing there's not more than five reprints from the original Ravnica block. Maybe 8 if there's a cycle, but I'm pretty sure they want to use player expectation to demonstrate how the plane has changed by making derivations of cards, like they did with Blightsteel Colossus. (Which, I see now, is exactly what some people have already been saying...)
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I wouldn't be at all surprised if wizards reprinted the Shocklands and maybe Dark Confidant just to lower the prices in Modern. That being said I highly doubt will get more then a handful of reprints since the good people at wotc aren't in the business to be lazy designers and just throw a reprint block at us. However I could also see them making a totally new version of wedge shocks or even bolts at that point. Something like
Fountain of Blood
Land - Mountain Plains Swamp
add , or to your manapool
As Fountain of Blood enters the battlefield you may pay 3 life. If you don't, it enters tapped.
or
Overgrown Shrine
Land - Forest Swamp Plains
add , or to your manapool
As Overgrown Shrine enters the battlefield you may pay 3 life. If you don't. it enters tapped.
This would actually make quite a bit of sense since it would solve some of the problem of the price barrier for Modern and allow players to have the feeling of "shocks" back, but it costs you a little more and they wouldn't have to spend 10 slots on rare lands during the block, only 5.
I am all for wedge guilds, but I think 3 colored lands are a bit strong. Still I hope we don't redo guilds. Spice it up.
Quoting this list. What is the "logic" behind these reprints being chosen?
As far as I can tell, they were just filling holes in set design. And we don't know the holes without knowing the rest of the set (i.e. mostly new cards.) Don't see why RTR will be any different.
They could reprint Ravnica card for card and it would FLY off the shelves and people would love it.
That being said I see them doing some of the higher dollar rares and uncommons. Shocks, spell snare, remand, Bob... I think the multicolor cards will be the ones we see different because of the destruction of Ravnica and the melding of guilds. Maybe we get some 3 colored hybred mages.
I think a good tie-in to the original Ravnica would be the Plaxmanta mechanic of sacing a creature unless you spend a certain color to cast it. Not necessarily reprints, but the mechanic itself.
It has interesting interactions with the graveyard theme in Innistrad. It would also provide some multi-color feel without being gold, in case they're diverging from the goldness of the original Rav at some point.
I think people in this thread are confusing themselves. "What I want to see reprinted" is not the same as "What they might logically reprint"
Also, people seem to be listing alot of different spells for reprints. Barring the occasional oversight(Lingering Souls), spells today are generally not as powerful as they were years back. The focus of the game now is creatures. Remand and Spell Snare, in particular, are not getting reprinted. Blue has been fantastic for the last couple of years, and it is reasonable to conclude that R&D is probably trying to give other colors a chance. Adding Remand to a Standard format that has Snapcaster Mage in it would accomplish the exact opposite of 'giving other colors a chance'. I would also be surprised to see Mortify or Putrefy get reprinted. Lighting Helix is a possibility, because plenty of playable constructed guys have 4+ toughness now.
Also, just because the set is 'return to Ravnica' doesn't mean that they're just going to re-hash every concept from Ravnica. I wouldn't be surprised if the set is closer to Shards in function than the original Ravnica. In the Ravnica storyline, the guilds largely got disbanded. They don't have any other 2 color combinations, but it's reasonable to think that some of the guilds ended up just being larger 3 color groups, where the previous groups shared similar ideologies(such as Golgari, Dimir, and Simic).
We might see Lightning Helix, but I think Vindicate is more likely than Putrefy and Mortify since it's been gone practically forever, it's too expensive to put in a reprint deck, and they aren't going to go crazy with tons of reprints. Every gold block gets one, though. Invasion had Vindicate, Ravnica had Angel of Despair, and Alara had Maelstrom Pulse.
@Ilovesaprolings: I wasn't saying that was a bad thing(though Shards block WAS fairly lackluster IMO). I just don't think that we're going to see the same interpretation of Ravnica that we did before. It's hard to think of the signets/guildmages/shocklands being reprinted when the guilds were disbanded. The shocklands are still in the realm of possibility(and other factors such as making Modern easier to get into are a point in favor of this). Just saying, just because we're returning to Ravnica doesn't mean a ton of things will be the same. 2 blocks ago we returned to Mirrodin, but we didn't see any more reprints then than we do with any other block.
Also, Spiritmonger was never that good, though his regeneration would mean alot more now than it did when he was printed. But he still has the same problem that he always did, which is a lack of evasion. Also, he is pretty pitiful compared to other 5/6 drop guys we see these days.
We might see Lightning Helix, but I think Vindicate is more likely than Putrefy and Mortify since it's been gone practically forever, it's too expensive to put in a reprint deck, and they aren't going to go crazy with tons of reprints.
Vindicate won't be reprinted for Standard because it's a versatile three mana LD spell. With the exception of Beast Within (which gives the player a 3/3 so it's not a huge loss to lose a land there), R&D has been deliberately avoiding LD spells for three mana while printing many 4+ mana LD spells that have some sort of auxiliary effect tacked on. Stuff like Tectonic Rift, Demolish, Acidic Slime, and Bramblecrush come to mind.
R&D really, really hates land destruction when it's Constructed viable. How else do you explain why Stone Rain hasn't been reprinted for nearly seven years now?
I hope the wedge theory isn't true. Ravnica is beloved because of the guilds, of the two-color combinations. The defining trait of Ravnica are the color pairs, if any innovation happens it must work with the color pairs. Even if R&D really wants a wedge set, I hope they find another opportunity for doing that.
I also believe that the shocklands may see a reprint, if only because of Modern and because of how iconic they were in the first Ravnica block. Signets may also see a reprint for the same reason the mana myrs did: they are just so elegant, so simple and yet manage to contain so much about the world. Other than that, maybe a common or uncommon that was relevant in limited (my money is on Civic Wayfinder).
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Ravnica shocklands are first on the list: Modern is a new format, they want to keep its cost of entry low (compared to legacy as an eternal format), so a reprint is likely. It has also been sometime since they have had that good of mana in Standard - the synergy with the Innistrad enemy duals is sweet for Standard, but not broken.
Lightning Helix, Faith's Fetters, Mortify, Putrefy are all good cards that were never broken and made Standard have a diverse set of answers to creatures across almost all colors. For similar reasons, we might see a Terminate reprint.
Spell Snare is a probably reprint. It is again, a non-broken super versatile counter spell. Mental-Mistep but not broken (you're always up mana, and 2 drops are very important - gives control a useful early counter spell). Remand is also another candidate (but much much smaller likelihood).
I do not think we'll get split card reprints, overall. I will admit that if they were to bring back Hit//Run and other multi-color split cards this would be the most logical block to do so.
Guildmages could see a reprint. They're aggressively costed bears with upside. In particular Selesnya Guildmage has huge synergy with token strategies in Standard.
Obviously Niv-Mizzet could see a reprint and I think Ghost Council is not out of the question. Both were arguably 2 of the most popular legends of their color pair, and both were strong but not broken (although either or both might see an upgrade).
Signets are the next most likely reprint, but I highly doubt it.
Will this be one big happy family, only to have their party rained on by a thought-to-be killed enemy... I dunno...
Old, rusted, and aged signets would be cool, left over from the disbanding of the guilds.
But instead of the ETB tapped wording, maybe lose 1 or 2 life... which could be synergistic with bloodlust, if it returns.
Are you referring to Bloodthirst, or am I confused?
The guilds aren't together anymore, from what I understand. At least, not in their original form. It's more than likely, I would think, that the remnants of each guild will be visible in RTR and the rest of the block, but I wouldn't bet on all of the guildmages returning, with the lack of guilds.
Yes, and that's why I made the in-their-orignal-form statement. Scars of Mirrodin had artifacts, and it felt like Mirrodin, but there were new and fresh things going on there, too.
1) Arrest
2) Copper Myr
3) Gold Myr
4) Iron Myr
5) Leaden Myr
6) Leonin Skyhunter
7) Mindslaver
8) Silver Myr
9) Trinket Mage
As you can see, not a whole lot. I doubt they reprint the shock lands, tbh they were simply too good. Besides, it's better for them to print a new type of dual lands so people buy more packs looking for them.
If you want reprints from Ravnica in Standard, you're far better off hoping they are in M13.
Fountain of Blood
Land - Mountain Plains Swamp
add , or to your manapool
As Fountain of Blood enters the battlefield you may pay 3 life. If you don't, it enters tapped.
or
Overgrown Shrine
Land - Forest Swamp Plains
add , or to your manapool
As Overgrown Shrine enters the battlefield you may pay 3 life. If you don't. it enters tapped.
This would actually make quite a bit of sense since it would solve some of the problem of the price barrier for Modern and allow players to have the feeling of "shocks" back, but it costs you a little more and they wouldn't have to spend 10 slots on rare lands during the block, only 5.
Bloodlust triggers off of damage being dealt.While damage does cause you to lose life,life lose isnt damage.Theirs a reason why Taste of Blood dosen't cause the targeted player to lose 1 like normaly does.Because it triggers bloodlust since it deals damage.
They been hesitant to reprint them.While they arent held back by a reserve list they still have the same problem player wise.Lots of people clamor for them but a more vocal minority well nerdrage when Wizards 'ruins my investment'.They couldv'e thrown a Temple Garden into the knights deck for KvD but they didn't.
Putrefy has yet to be reprinted & Faiths Fetters was reprinted before modern.Everything else you mentioned has been reprinted after moden.Which just proves the point of them being hesitant to reprint the shcoklands.
Obviously you seem to forget that this is an expansion and not a side product like FtV,Duel Decks,Planechase,ArchEnemey or Commander.Reprinting them is entirely out of the question.
I'll end this post with words of wisdom.......They aren't just going to reprint the Rav block and tack a few planeswalkers on and call it a new block.Don't let nostolgia and/or wishful thinking blind you.It beens about a day from the PAX announcment and alot of players seem to think like this already.The only ones you'll be able to blame when your ridiculous/high expectations aren't meet is yourself.
BAfter the lights go out on you, after your worthless life is through. I will remember how you scream...B
I'm not saying that they definitely will nor that they should. I am saying that based on the fact that the set is called Return to Ravnica, we can surmise that some cards from Ravnica are likely to be reprinted.
Since R&D for Return to Ravnica would have begun roughly 2 years ago, that coincides pretty directly with complaints about Extended becoming a stale format and perhaps the first discussions regarding what would become Modern.
Here I am speculating that of the small amount of cards reprinted, which are the most likely. Shocklands make the most sense. Yes, there is a vocal minority that will be upset about their investment being lost. Wizards has never catered exclusively to the vocal minority. They have always done what makes the most money, over the course of the long term. They have also stated that given what they know now, that they would rather the Restricted List not exist, suggesting that they believe that reprints should always be considered, regardless of secondary market prices (it makes sense from an economic stand point but I digress).
Everyone loves being able to cast their spells. Shocklands appeal to the vast majority of players, and even for those that don't like them initially, they eventually learn that using 2 life as a resource in order to have better mana is worth it. Shocklands are honestly an extremely elegant design and it seems a waste not to reuse them every 7-9 years or so. Moreover, increasing the supply allows Modern as a PTQ format to exist over the long term (contrast to Legacy which would basically be the worst PTQ format short of Vintage or Commander).
Why make new things that do what the old things do? MaRo (and I'm assuming the rest of R&D) thinks that design space is not unlimited. Given that spells like Lightning Helix and Putrefy are popular, effective and elegant designs, why try to reinvent the wheel? These uncommon removal spells have shown that they aren't oppressive in Standard, and if Extended ever picks up again it would be because the format became diversified, meaning that all colors (and color combinations) have to have powerful, useful spells.
Let's face it. Scars of Mirrodin had it's fair share of reprints, and many more cards that referenced original Mirrodin block. I'm not saying that RTR will be Ravnica with planeswalkers thrown in, nor do I want it to be. However, it seems incorrect to say that certain iconic cards (that still exist as examples of good design today) won't be reprinted, purely because RTR is an expansion and not a special product (for that matter, why is that even relevant - Scavenging Ooze is a great example of how Wizards is perfectly willing to print relevant cards in special products anyway. What format the product is for hardly matters).
Tl;DR I see no reason why Shocklands won't be reprinted, in fact all the evidence suggests they will either be reprinted in RTR OR M13.
I'm guessing there's not more than five reprints from the original Ravnica block. Maybe 8 if there's a cycle, but I'm pretty sure they want to use player expectation to demonstrate how the plane has changed by making derivations of cards, like they did with Blightsteel Colossus. (Which, I see now, is exactly what some people have already been saying...)
I am all for wedge guilds, but I think 3 colored lands are a bit strong. Still I hope we don't redo guilds. Spice it up.
So Pro I have an alpha Volcanic Island
Quoting this list. What is the "logic" behind these reprints being chosen?
As far as I can tell, they were just filling holes in set design. And we don't know the holes without knowing the rest of the set (i.e. mostly new cards.) Don't see why RTR will be any different.
That being said I see them doing some of the higher dollar rares and uncommons. Shocks, spell snare, remand, Bob... I think the multicolor cards will be the ones we see different because of the destruction of Ravnica and the melding of guilds. Maybe we get some 3 colored hybred mages.
But then again, if you reprint it verbatim (with the exception of changing the nephilim for something good) then you'd get accused of being lazy.
[[b]B]DCI Level 2 Judge[/B][/b]It has interesting interactions with the graveyard theme in Innistrad. It would also provide some multi-color feel without being gold, in case they're diverging from the goldness of the original Rav at some point.
other than that:
Lightning helix Seriously, one of the best burn spell ever printed. 3 dmg. 3 life. 2 mana. Perfect combination.
Decks:
EDH: :symbw::symuw::symub:Merieke Ri Berit:symbw::symuw::symub:
Archenemy EDH: Reaper king
(")(")
GONZO
Genius, fast, and long eared.
Also, people seem to be listing alot of different spells for reprints. Barring the occasional oversight(Lingering Souls), spells today are generally not as powerful as they were years back. The focus of the game now is creatures. Remand and Spell Snare, in particular, are not getting reprinted. Blue has been fantastic for the last couple of years, and it is reasonable to conclude that R&D is probably trying to give other colors a chance. Adding Remand to a Standard format that has Snapcaster Mage in it would accomplish the exact opposite of 'giving other colors a chance'. I would also be surprised to see Mortify or Putrefy get reprinted. Lighting Helix is a possibility, because plenty of playable constructed guys have 4+ toughness now.
Also, just because the set is 'return to Ravnica' doesn't mean that they're just going to re-hash every concept from Ravnica. I wouldn't be surprised if the set is closer to Shards in function than the original Ravnica. In the Ravnica storyline, the guilds largely got disbanded. They don't have any other 2 color combinations, but it's reasonable to think that some of the guilds ended up just being larger 3 color groups, where the previous groups shared similar ideologies(such as Golgari, Dimir, and Simic).
Spiritmonger might be cool to reprint, too.
Also, Spiritmonger was never that good, though his regeneration would mean alot more now than it did when he was printed. But he still has the same problem that he always did, which is a lack of evasion. Also, he is pretty pitiful compared to other 5/6 drop guys we see these days.
Vindicate won't be reprinted for Standard because it's a versatile three mana LD spell. With the exception of Beast Within (which gives the player a 3/3 so it's not a huge loss to lose a land there), R&D has been deliberately avoiding LD spells for three mana while printing many 4+ mana LD spells that have some sort of auxiliary effect tacked on. Stuff like Tectonic Rift, Demolish, Acidic Slime, and Bramblecrush come to mind.
R&D really, really hates land destruction when it's Constructed viable. How else do you explain why Stone Rain hasn't been reprinted for nearly seven years now?
I also believe that the shocklands may see a reprint, if only because of Modern and because of how iconic they were in the first Ravnica block. Signets may also see a reprint for the same reason the mana myrs did: they are just so elegant, so simple and yet manage to contain so much about the world. Other than that, maybe a common or uncommon that was relevant in limited (my money is on Civic Wayfinder).