Tubba read doesn't surprise me actually, Pizza was never as sold on KJ as he was on Grape/Jenna. I've been back and forth between the two as the final scum, will complete my reread during night phase and go from there (assuming I survive the night...)
There's nothing that proves that I'm mafia. Pizza was lying, he was intentionally ignoring me, and he was controlling the game. He's proven that he will lie to get where he wants and that's why you should disregard everything he said about me.
Firstly, Pizza never lied about his role. You've looked at one single post and taken a portion of it out of context to prove a point. Here's a dissection of Pizza's claims:
Sec1My role is definitely weak, commute is basically worth.... I dunno. 0.1 wolves. Not even that. It's not for solving, but it can keep a strong player alive who typically dies on n1. Sec2The kidnap is like a weaker version of a jailkeep, because jailkeep doesn't stop town investigations (like a tracker). So kidnapping will interfere with the town tracker, which is good, I like roles that take the punch out of investigative powers, because cops suck for the game yet people refuse to play without them.
So, a jailkeep is a combo of roleblock and doctor but gives the downsides of both. You jailkeep a scum, they cannot be vig'ed that night. You jailkeep a town power, they can't use their actions.
Kidnapping interferes with both the vigilante and the town tracker, lessening the strength of both roles. Fits rather nicely into the setup so far, and a full kidnapper instead of a one shot might have been really worth it to whoever gets the role.
Sec3The messaging power just seems like bells and whistles. Doesn't do much, if you have no investigatory powers. I suppose I could have written my leans list as my last will and testament and given it to a townie I trusted during the night phase, in case I died. And in my case in particular, that might be worth a wolf. But usually it should be worth nothing.
Town had kill power, town had investigative power, town has a bells and whistles role to keep the game from being boring. Call it a limited roleblock/doc with a single functioning commute. Sec4Pseudo jack of all trades.
Section 1: This is the part of the post that you quoted earlier as being proof that Pizza said he's a commuter. HOWEVER... Sections 2 & 3: The very next sentence talks about his 1-shot kidnap, and section 3 about his 1-shot messaging ability. Looking back at what you said earlier,
20 posts is "way before" the post I found? I was reasonably certain that #635 existed, but I couldn't find it, so I settled for #655, which is, in fact, a better example of a subtle lie. In #869 you put for a request that I find a post where he said he was a commuter. I found one. You did not ask me to find the first post where he stated he was a commuter. I'm not sure what your problem is, but please stop moving the goalposts.
Yes, you found a post where he says he's a commuter but you didn't look at or mention the fact that he also says he has a kidnap and messaging power which is all there in the same post.
And finally Section 4: This is not a denial that he is a JoAT, he is pointing out that his role (Thief) is esentially the same as a JoAT.@Everyone: Pizza mentioned in his post that he would try and send the one shot message, can anyone confirm having received it? Not sure if his death would interfere with it going off.
There's nothing that proves that I'm mafia. Pizza was lying, he was intentionally ignoring me, and he was controlling the game. He's proven that he will lie to get where he wants and that's why you should disregard everything he said about me.
I think I've managed to prove that Pizza was not lying as you say he was, and why would we disregard everything he said about you after he was 100% spot on about Grapefruit AND flipped town. Your weak attempts to defend yourself instead of scumhunting since this Day started together with Pizza's scumread of you is exactly why I want you lynched.Need to start working on finding third scum...
My suspicions justified is the takeaway. Curious that Grapefruit's lynch occurred without the support of all five remaining town players. Perhaps there were six.
Clarify the bolded for me please? I think I have an idea of what you mean but I'd like to hear it from you please.
I strongly recommend we choose No Lynch. If we reviewreveal ourselves now, the best we can do is clear a player who will get killed tonight. But if we choose No Lynch now, the mafia might kill someone who could have never been cleared via behavior.
1)I assume that was a typo and was supposed to read as I've corrected it here in bold?
2)You seem to have confused "No Massclaim" with "No Lynch" in this post here, as it only makes sense if I replace the word lynch with the word massclaim. No lynch would not have any effect on who the mafia choose to kill. And you can't say that you're against the massclaim idea since you went and claimed before anyone could even discuss Reverb's idea. (I'm not 100% convinced we should risk a massclaim yet, but am willing to discuss it as an option)
3)No lynching is still a terrible idea for the same reasons I posted yesterday. allow me to expand on that though:
No lynch at this point takes us from a 6 player MyLo to a 5 player LyLo assuming the nightkill happens. As you point out above, scum would aim for the player most likely to be cleared by behaviour which means we have a pool of 5 murky players and no more chances to screw up. Alternatively, if the NK is prevented in any way or scum choose not to fire, we find ourselves in the exact same boat we are in today except now you open up the possibility for claims/counterclaims as to why the NK failed. No Lynch (in my opinion) should only ever be used in one of two scenarios, a) town have several mislynches available and are looking to gain extra insight from night abilities(cop/tracker/watcher) or b)town find themselves in 4 player MyLo and want/need to narrow the field.
20 posts is "way before" the post I found? I was reasonably certain that #635 existed, but I couldn't find it, so I settled for #655, which is, in fact, a better example of a subtle lie. In #869 you put for a request that I find a post where he said he was a commuter. I found one. You did not ask me to find the first post where he stated he was a commuter. I'm not sure what your problem is, but please stop moving the goalposts.
Reverb's point stands, Pizza was referring to a part of his claim in #655 and was not full-claiming in that post.
Askthepizzaguy has died in the night! He was Jett, Town Thief (Jack of All Trades).
Pizza said he was a commuter, not a thief. At one point he even said he wasn't a jack of all trades. While he was right about Grapefruit, he lied to get there, not by omission or through misdirection but with a straight up bold-faced lie. So before you go voting me, you should take a long look at this Toxic Pizza who never once talked to me despite my many attempts to reach out to him and his nature of lying about anything necessary to get the way he wants. If you decide to believe that liar I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
Further to what Anak (Hey Anak ) had to say about this, I'd like to point out the bolded here. How does his lying about his role have anything to do with his push on Grapefruit?
I am explaining how the toxicity in his play was the reason for my suspicion. It's frustrating that he was on my side.
First you bring up that he lied about his claim, now you accuse him of toxic play? Which is it? Lying about claims is par for the course in this game, I could claim Vanilla when I'm actually the Doc to avoid being targeted by the NK, or I could claim doctor as Vanilla to draw the NK away from a stronger town player.
And I see no toxicity in Pizza's posts, if that's what you perceive to be toxic then you might not have the right constitution for Mafia. I have seen true toxicity, players modkilled for abusive language and behaviour/town fake claiming a guilty cop result on another town simply because they did not like the player and then gloating about it after the game ended/players replacing out because they don't want to play with certain others/the list goes on.
It looks to me like you're grasping at straws to explain your joining scum grape in voting for townPizza yesterday. That together with Pizza's read of you is a strong enough case for me.
Askthepizzaguy has died in the night! He was Jett, Town Thief (Jack of All Trades).
Pizza said he was a commuter, not a thief. At one point he even said he wasn't a jack of all trades. While he was right about Grapefruit, he lied to get there, not by omission or through misdirection but with a straight up bold-faced lie. So before you go voting me, you should take a long look at this Toxic Pizza who never once talked to me despite my many attempts to reach out to him and his nature of lying about anything necessary to get the way he wants. If you decide to believe that liar I wouldn't lose sleep over it.
Further to what Anak (Hey Anak ) had to say about this, I'd like to point out the bolded here. How does his lying about his role have anything to do with his push on Grapefruit?
Grapefruit is a credible lynch because Bear was scummy, (the end of day play leading to the Osie hammer, the lack of any real push on anyone), Grapefruits play was better, but still not really pressuring anyone. And it's just not possible to ignore the counter claim. Two town vigs seems extremely unlikely.
Talk me out of it, make a case for something/someone different. The big problem is I think a mislynch is a loss (3 scum, 5 town?), but we're not doing anything productive to change that.
and there's nothing between that and your vote that indicates you've changed that read of Grape. You've answered why you voted for Pizza, but not what your goal with that vote was since the lynch had already happened. And even if Grape flipped town, we hadn't necessarily lost since a successful block of the NK would have left us in LyLo today.
Presumably that means we lose after the night is over, or if not tonight, then tomorrow when Pizza has his way. This has been less fun than I anticipated, between absent players and Pizza's hostile manner. But thank you for the game nonetheless.
I still don't get why we didn't no lynch. We had the chance to remove a suspect and instead over the course of two weeks the game led up to the inevitable outcome. I'm not terribly upset. I just feel like it was a waste of time.
So, ScumGrape and TownPizza confirmed. How does that affect your view of the current gamestate?
Pizza had a lot of very good points on why you were next on the list after Grapefruit, but since we are again in MyLo I do not want to just rush into lynching you without hearing from you first. If you are town, convince me.
Once again, still really sure it's grape/jenna, feel like I need to look at pizza/dota to be through. Will do that before Day ends.
Please do, Pizza being willing to audible to Megs yesterday makes no sense given the level of conviction he'd been expressing in his read on me.
As I already pointed out not too long ago, Pizza did try very hard to get you lynched yesterDay but others were more interested in a Torg/Megs lynch. I even quoted his post where he discusses it. Here's my post again in case you missed it:
I see I'm not getting the required help I need to lynch scum Grapefruit.
Seeing my villagers vote irrationally and divided does not give me good feelings about how this game is going to end.
I can't be bothered to put more effort into this game under these circumstances.
Grapefruit should hang, Tubba is off on a tangent thanks to Voxx playing fancy, and I am not a big fan of Shadow voting for Colin.
I don't believe either Grapefruit or Killjoy are townies. So, you're forcing me to lynch three deep into my scum pile, which is fine, since Megiddo either isn't town or won't be worth anything to town anyway.
Vote: Megiddo.
Hasta la vista.
Are you reading Pizza's posts or just trying anything you can think of to smear him?
I find it hard to believe that this close to the end of day 3 you have no townreads, especially considering your willingness to follow a player that many believe to be scum. I'd like to see a reads list from you, to get an idea of where you stand on each player individually rather than a blanket statement like the one quoted here.
Grapefruit is a credible lynch because Bear was scummy, (the end of day play leading to the Osie hammer, the lack of any real push on anyone), Grapefruits play was better, but still not really pressuring anyone. And it's just not possible to ignore the counter claim. Two town vigs seems extremely unlikely.
Talk me out of it, make a case for something/someone different. The big problem is I think a mislynch is a loss (3 scum, 5 town?), but we're not doing anything productive to change that.
Then do something? I'm not sure why the burden is on me to do your housekeeping. You are right that Bear was suspicious but you don't find it the least bit suspicious that Pizza is doing anything possible to avoid a no lynch? He's so averse to it that he's revealing that he's hiding something.
No lynching at this point is not a viable option when we have a solid lynch candidate available. All that no-lynch does is removes a townie(there's no way Mafia fire into the suspected pool) and gives them more control of the lynch tomorrow. That's assuming we don't manage to block the NK in which case were right back in the same position again. Colin has made some very good points about why Grape should be lynched, if you're not willing to listen to Pizza then at least consider what he's added in his post.
I see I'm not getting the required help I need to lynch scum Grapefruit.
Seeing my villagers vote irrationally and divided does not give me good feelings about how this game is going to end.
I can't be bothered to put more effort into this game under these circumstances.
Grapefruit should hang, Tubba is off on a tangent thanks to Voxx playing fancy, and I am not a big fan of Shadow voting for Colin.
I don't believe either Grapefruit or Killjoy are townies. So, you're forcing me to lynch three deep into my scum pile, which is fine, since Megiddo either isn't town or won't be worth anything to town anyway.
Vote: Megiddo.
Hasta la vista.
Are you reading Pizza's posts or just trying anything you can think of to smear him?
Well played scum team, especially Tau.
635: Pizza claims his three 1 shot abilities655: This is a goldmine, I'm breaking it up into sections, comments afterSection 1: This is the part of the post that you quoted earlier as being proof that Pizza said he's a commuter. HOWEVER...
Sections 2 & 3: The very next sentence talks about his 1-shot kidnap, and section 3 about his 1-shot messaging ability. Looking back at what you said earlier,Yes, you found a post where he says he's a commuter but you didn't look at or mention the fact that he also says he has a kidnap and messaging power which is all there in the same post.
And finally Section 4: This is not a denial that he is a JoAT, he is pointing out that his role (Thief) is esentially the same as a JoAT.
@Everyone: Pizza mentioned in his post that he would try and send the one shot message, can anyone confirm having received it? Not sure if his death would interfere with it going off.
I think I've managed to prove that Pizza was not lying as you say he was, and why would we disregard everything he said about you after he was 100% spot on about Grapefruit AND flipped town. Your weak attempts to defend yourself instead of scumhunting since this Day started together with Pizza's scumread of you is exactly why I want you lynched.
Need to start working on finding third scum...
1)I assume that was a typo and was supposed to read as I've corrected it here in bold?
2)You seem to have confused "No Massclaim" with "No Lynch" in this post here, as it only makes sense if I replace the word lynch with the word massclaim. No lynch would not have any effect on who the mafia choose to kill. And you can't say that you're against the massclaim idea since you went and claimed before anyone could even discuss Reverb's idea. (I'm not 100% convinced we should risk a massclaim yet, but am willing to discuss it as an option)
3)No lynching is still a terrible idea for the same reasons I posted yesterday. allow me to expand on that though:
No lynch at this point takes us from a 6 player MyLo to a 5 player LyLo assuming the nightkill happens. As you point out above, scum would aim for the player most likely to be cleared by behaviour which means we have a pool of 5 murky players and no more chances to screw up. Alternatively, if the NK is prevented in any way or scum choose not to fire, we find ourselves in the exact same boat we are in today except now you open up the possibility for claims/counterclaims as to why the NK failed. No Lynch (in my opinion) should only ever be used in one of two scenarios, a) town have several mislynches available and are looking to gain extra insight from night abilities(cop/tracker/watcher) or b)town find themselves in 4 player MyLo and want/need to narrow the field.
Reverb's point stands, Pizza was referring to a part of his claim in #655 and was not full-claiming in that post.
Where did he say that?
Town block
Reverb
Anak
Need to reread
Killjoy
Tubba
Should be Lynched today
Jenna
And I see no toxicity in Pizza's posts, if that's what you perceive to be toxic then you might not have the right constitution for Mafia. I have seen true toxicity, players modkilled for abusive language and behaviour/town fake claiming a guilty cop result on another town simply because they did not like the player and then gloating about it after the game ended/players replacing out because they don't want to play with certain others/the list goes on.
It looks to me like you're grasping at straws to explain your joining scum grape in voting for townPizza yesterday. That together with Pizza's read of you is a strong enough case for me.
Vote: Jenna Tolaria
Pizza had a lot of very good points on why you were next on the list after Grapefruit, but since we are again in MyLo I do not want to just rush into lynching you without hearing from you first. If you are town, convince me.
Are you reading Pizza's posts or just trying anything you can think of to smear him?