Btw, a (very) long time ago, 40 cards was the minimum deck size (we still play this way on occasion with the really oldschool guy in our group. Since this is casual, I'll note that your group ismwelcome to Play however...the rules state 60 is the min.
Having played discard for a long time, there's some good advice in here. My first bit of advice is to not play discard, you may get hated or banned (either you or more likely the deck). Wizards toned down the power level of discard over the years because it decreases the fun factor of the game...same with land destruction. I would only recommend discard to the most powerful and cutthroat of playgroups. Mine is fairly strong vintage and I've taken my discard deck apart as it's too strong and annoying to play against. My $0.03.
If your still interested In discard...Here's my two cents on favorite cards.
Dark ritual. No questions, put 4 in. No brainer. This is for the following...
Hypnotic specter. MVP, and best creature for discard.
Hymn to tourach. Best discard in the game. Run 4.
Mindstab thrull. He can beat, he can discard. I ran 4 and loved it. I don't see him in builds nowadays so maybe there's better.
Funeral charm. Fantastic. There is very very little instant speed discard. By turn 4, playing this will before the end of their draw phase will act as a time walk for B.
Stupor. Good card, probably better ones now.
Durress. Great in the 1cc slot.
Lotus petal. Free mana.
Rain of tears. Land destruction supplements the whole disruption and discard package to prevent them from playing things.
Kill. I always chose to kill with nekrataal, juzam or sengir vampire, rather than rack effects...personal decision.
Disrupting scepter (fugue). Don't scoff at reusable discard.
I like 20 swamps with 4 rituals for mana, and 4 lotus petals.
Sign in blood. I didn't have this in mine, but it's good draw for black. You'll spend most of your hand destroying theirs...refill it quicker than them (see also phyrexian arena)
Add the Hippie, and you're good to go. Rackling is a Rack with teeth and Mindstab Thrull is fun, if you ever wanted to add more creature kill to ensure they get through :).
BTW, I've liked maybe 2 or 3 funeral charm as there isn't much in the way of instant speed discard (as in, you draw a card, and during your draw phase, I funeral charm you. And if their hand was already empty?
One B mana for a Time Walk? Oh, sure.
When I played discard alot, it wasn't too uncommon to:
Turn 1 Ritual, duress, hymn, turn 2 hymn, turn 3 hyppie, turn 4 stupor (or whatever), and then funeral charm their turn to mil their only card.
I don't understand why Dark Ritual into Hymn + Black Vise is a good play. I don't know if there's ever a situation where you want Black Vise and The Rack in the same deck. Also, if you really want to use that Necropotence you should be using tendrils of Corruption or some sort of life gain.
Maybe you could take a look at some classic Necro lists as a jumping off point- they're similar to what you're trying to do, I think.
The Rack and Black Vice can be in the same deck...in a goofy kind'a "you take hand damage most of the time" sort of way. This is casual afterall. I've done it in general decks with no real theme (just a whole bunch'a good cards), and its amusing, but becomes annoying. However, this deck focusses on discard, so you don't want Black Vice afterall, as thats the theme, right?
Maybe a 2-of: Pestilence Demon?
PS, 20 land is kinda' lean, but I cound 4 Dark Rituals as "2 land" (quotation "fingers" *wiggle*). Still, another land or two?
not sure where this is going but id rather choose the card myself instead of it being random for the same price....
cool deck though! nyxathid is gonna be fun
for this id say.
That's exactly why Coercion was in there...yeah, its 3CC, but I like to be able to see their hand, and choose anything to get rid of. No restrictions, and I get to pick it. 'course, back then we didn't have Duress either. Stupor is nice, as getting rid of two cards. Its Hymn to Tourach's lazy-eye'd, red-headed little brother...but is plenty efficient at emptying a dude's hand by turn 3.
Nyxathid is beatiful...that's a Sengir replacement I can chew one :).
Some cool new cards...and terribly expensive :eek:. I reckon' you probably missed the part about budget, though
Damnation - Not neccessary if the deck works right...unless a red swarm...but that's what the terror/assassin are for, and are cheaper to cast. Oh yeah...and wayyy out of budget.
Doom Blade - *ctrl-x*, highlight Terror, *ctrl-v*. They had to replace Terror...like it wasn't one of the top 3 best creature killers ever?
Tendrils of Corruption - I don't like it as well as Drain Life...can't target an opponent :-\
Tombstalker - Wow...amazing. ($$$)
Nantuko Shade - I'm kinda' meh about this one. Pump is a good thing, in the right deck...but with only 18 Swamp...I dunno. Oh, and ($$$)
Korlash, Heir to Blackblade - DAMN, Nightmare is a yawn compared to this guy. ($$$)
Thoughtsieze - A little limited, but at B, I'm sure it'd be useful on Turn1 (also...$$$). Dark Ritual, Thoughtsieze, Hymn would be smokin'. Could replace Funeral Charm, but I like the Charm's instant speed. Plus...$$$
Duress - Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about...and finally the price is right! He's in :).
- I'd (really) like comments/discussion on where this kinda' deck has gone over the years. It was my favorite back then, and felt like it was pretty well-tuned.
- Please, only uber-budget recommendations with newer cards...I don't have a budget for this game anymore. Nothing more thatn $0.50 to (maybe) $1.00 a card. Particularly, multi-player improvements would be *****in'.
- No The Rack...my group banned me from playing it in this deck. They've mostly banned the deck entirely...it is pretty mean for casual. :embarrass:.
- I'm an old school player, most of my stuff is revised - tempest block. We started playing in '94, stopped playing in '02-ish. Now, the old group is getting back in a little. We're very casual, both 1on1 and 4-6 player multis, Type 1, old rules (I think either revised or classic-6th rules...whenever "the stack" was created). We stopped playing the game mostly b/c Wizards seemed to be making stronger cards to replace our old ones, and we didn't want to spend more money as poor college kids. Back in now, its just seems like a different game.
Drum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
If your still interested In discard...Here's my two cents on favorite cards.
Dark ritual. No questions, put 4 in. No brainer. This is for the following...
Hypnotic specter. MVP, and best creature for discard.
Hymn to tourach. Best discard in the game. Run 4.
Mindstab thrull. He can beat, he can discard. I ran 4 and loved it. I don't see him in builds nowadays so maybe there's better.
Funeral charm. Fantastic. There is very very little instant speed discard. By turn 4, playing this will before the end of their draw phase will act as a time walk for B.
Stupor. Good card, probably better ones now.
Durress. Great in the 1cc slot.
Lotus petal. Free mana.
Rain of tears. Land destruction supplements the whole disruption and discard package to prevent them from playing things.
Kill. I always chose to kill with nekrataal, juzam or sengir vampire, rather than rack effects...personal decision.
Disrupting scepter (fugue). Don't scoff at reusable discard.
I like 20 swamps with 4 rituals for mana, and 4 lotus petals.
Sign in blood. I didn't have this in mine, but it's good draw for black. You'll spend most of your hand destroying theirs...refill it quicker than them (see also phyrexian arena)
Hope I've helped.
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
Rackling is a Rack with teeth and Mindstab Thrull is fun, if you ever wanted to add more creature kill to ensure they get through :).
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
One B mana for a Time Walk? Oh, sure.
When I played discard alot, it wasn't too uncommon to:
Turn 1 Ritual, duress, hymn, turn 2 hymn, turn 3 hyppie, turn 4 stupor (or whatever), and then funeral charm their turn to mil their only card.
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
The Rack and Black Vice can be in the same deck...in a goofy kind'a "you take hand damage most of the time" sort of way. This is casual afterall. I've done it in general decks with no real theme (just a whole bunch'a good cards), and its amusing, but becomes annoying. However, this deck focusses on discard, so you don't want Black Vice afterall, as thats the theme, right?
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
PS, 20 land is kinda' lean, but I cound 4 Dark Rituals as "2 land" (quotation "fingers" *wiggle*). Still, another land or two?
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
I like it. Everytime I've seen that scepter used, its been evil. Eeeeviiiilllll.
That's exactly why Coercion was in there...yeah, its 3CC, but I like to be able to see their hand, and choose anything to get rid of. No restrictions, and I get to pick it. 'course, back then we didn't have Duress either. Stupor is nice, as getting rid of two cards. Its Hymn to Tourach's lazy-eye'd, red-headed little brother...but is plenty efficient at emptying a dude's hand by turn 3.
Nyxathid is beatiful...that's a Sengir replacement I can chew one :).
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
Sorry if I came across wrong, I appreciate it
I dig those two new creatures, especially gatekeeper.
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
Some cool new cards...and terribly expensive :eek:. I reckon' you probably missed the part about budget, though
Damnation - Not neccessary if the deck works right...unless a red swarm...but that's what the terror/assassin are for, and are cheaper to cast. Oh yeah...and wayyy out of budget.
Doom Blade - *ctrl-x*, highlight Terror, *ctrl-v*. They had to replace Terror...like it wasn't one of the top 3 best creature killers ever?
Tendrils of Corruption - I don't like it as well as Drain Life...can't target an opponent :-\
Tombstalker - Wow...amazing. ($$$)
Nantuko Shade - I'm kinda' meh about this one. Pump is a good thing, in the right deck...but with only 18 Swamp...I dunno. Oh, and ($$$)
Korlash, Heir to Blackblade - DAMN, Nightmare is a yawn compared to this guy. ($$$)
Thoughtsieze - A little limited, but at B, I'm sure it'd be useful on Turn1 (also...$$$). Dark Ritual, Thoughtsieze, Hymn would be smokin'. Could replace Funeral Charm, but I like the Charm's instant speed. Plus...$$$
Duress - Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about...and finally the price is right! He's in :).
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass
Here's my old school Black discard...I'd like your thoughts:
- The goal: empty the hand, and plink away with the creatures.
4 Hymn to Tourach
4 Hypnotic Specter
4 Funeral Charm
2 Mind Twist (only have 2)
2 Stupor
2 Disrupting Scepter
2 Coercion
2 Sinkhole (only have 2)
3 Terror or Royal Assassin (it varies)
2 Drain Life
Draw (3)
1 Dem Tutor
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Necropotence
4 Sengir Vampire
1 Nightmare
Mana (25)
4 Dark Ritual
1 Sol Ring
1 Lotus Petal
1 Strip Mine
18 Swamp
- I'd (really) like comments/discussion on where this kinda' deck has gone over the years. It was my favorite back then, and felt like it was pretty well-tuned.
- Please, only uber-budget recommendations with newer cards...I don't have a budget for this game anymore. Nothing more thatn $0.50 to (maybe) $1.00 a card. Particularly, multi-player improvements would be *****in'.
- No The Rack...my group banned me from playing it in this deck. They've mostly banned the deck entirely...it is pretty mean for casual. :embarrass:.
- I'm an old school player, most of my stuff is revised - tempest block. We started playing in '94, stopped playing in '02-ish. Now, the old group is getting back in a little. We're very casual, both 1on1 and 4-6 player multis, Type 1, old rules (I think either revised or classic-6th rules...whenever "the stack" was created). We stopped playing the game mostly b/c Wizards seemed to be making stronger cards to replace our old ones, and we didn't want to spend more money as poor college kids. Back in now, its just seems like a different game.
DRum
Old school group, sometimes more beer than cards. Revised thru Tempest block (and a little of Urza), sorry if I don't know all the new cards
Ye' Olde Schoole Casual Decks: BUReanimate -- GRAggro -- BWPestilence -- G10-land Stompy -- GRElfball -- GWEnchantress -- RAnkh Sligh -- BDiscard -- MUC "Draw-go" -- BRSuicide -- UWSkies -- UHigh Tide Mill -- WWeenie -- UMutated Bombers -- URThe great land-toss -- UB Molasass