There is that linking word "and" that means they happen at the same time. There is no comma or then statement. And yes I followed the 4 year old link.
It didn't work 4 years ago and doesn't work today.
A more recent thread, only 3.5 years old. You'll see the same issue brought up and the comparison to Oath of Druids explained, including the Jan 2010 rules update that explicitly brings up the interaction of the Dragon auras and creatures entering the battlefield.
However, when this card was updated a couple of months ago, the ability was changed to have two instances of the word "puts." This makes putting the creature card onto the battlefield come before putting the other cards into the graveyard.
Gamekeeper currently has two instances of the word "puts."
They are worded the same. Exile cards, put the guy into play and the rest go to the yard.
If you followed the provided link, or closely read the two cards, you would see why they are not the same.
Gamekeeper:
Put that card onto the battlefield and put all other cards...
The two instances of the word put means they are two separate actions. Errata should likely be added so that it reads "put and then put" to clear up any confusion.
Oath:
...that player puts that card onto the battlefield and all other cards revealed this way...
Gamekeeper reads "Put that card onto the battlefield and put all other cards revealed this way into your graveyard."
The two instances of "put" indicate they are two separate actions, therefore the creature will be on the battlefield before Dragon Breath hits the grave and "sees" the fatty enter play. Oath of Druids is worded in a way where both actions are simultaneous.
Isn't that also around the time that Legacy started to take off in terms of tournaments? And are you seriously going to try to convince me that SnT wasn't looked at as an amazingly easy to abuse card?
You're probably correct Legacy saw an uptick around that time (I would say Time Spiral, but that was when it was bolstered in my area), but that doesn't mean that "People have been abusing SnT since it was printed." Sure, Show and Tell was always a card that might someday be broken 'if', but there was no incentive to abuse the card until WotC started with the bustedmonstercreep to get little Timmy exited.
My issue is with new design philosophies. I get that they can't catch all the interactions with obscure old cards, but some things are obvious. If there's a permanent that says "You Win!," we're going to find a way to cheat it out.
People have been abusing SnT since it was printed. It didn't take GB to make the card ridiculous.
Sorry bud, you're incredibly wrong with this statement. Show and Tell was actively bad (and was a solid $1 junk rare) until Zendikar block (Oct-2009. Check blacklotusproject.com to verify. Entomb was unbanned, Iona, Shield of Emeria was printed and Reanimator won GP Madrid. Fast forward a few months: Emrakul was printed and one of the early iterations of Sneak & Show Top 8'd GP Columbus in August 2010.
Yes, Show and Tell scales with the dumb yugioh level alien garbage WotC tosses into sets these days, but to say it was always abused is fallacious and hyperbolic. Fox News will be glad to have you.
Another odd increase is Shared Animosity, which has seen something like a 700% increase in price since May. It's still comparatively cheap ($7 a pop) and is probably being bought because of its unique and powerful effect, however niche it may be. Anyone know what might be driving this one?
I would guess Young Pyromancer speculation. Seems like a fine way to make those 1/1s into something terrifying.
And I've heard of it killing its controller when a Consecrated Sphinx hit play. Yes, that was a legacy match.
It's a shame Notion Thief wasn't more aggressively costed. BB or BU for a 1/1 would've been quite good.
It didn't work 4 years ago and doesn't work today.
A more recent thread, only 3.5 years old. You'll see the same issue brought up and the comparison to Oath of Druids explained, including the Jan 2010 rules update that explicitly brings up the interaction of the Dragon auras and creatures entering the battlefield.
Relevant section of the Jan 2010 rules update
Gamekeeper currently has two instances of the word "puts."
If you followed the provided link, or closely read the two cards, you would see why they are not the same.
Gamekeeper:
The two instances of the word put means they are two separate actions. Errata should likely be added so that it reads "put and then put" to clear up any confusion.
Oath:
One action, all simultaneous.
It's a very subtle ruling. I'm only aware because I've tinkered with Gamekeeper in the past only to be stonewalled by this particular interaction.
Gamekeeper reads "Put that card onto the battlefield and put all other cards revealed this way into your graveyard."
The two instances of "put" indicate they are two separate actions, therefore the creature will be on the battlefield before Dragon Breath hits the grave and "sees" the fatty enter play. Oath of Druids is worded in a way where both actions are simultaneous.
Link to rules discussion for reference.
Or better, Chaosphere flips the abilities and makes your men unblockable by the flying legion.
Yes, so "dealt damage" = "prevent all damage from sources of X"
You can also use Misdirection on an opponent's Bolt/Swords/Path/Decay to target TNN.
Of course, this won't always work, as Duress/Seize/Inquisition your High Tide -> Extirpate on Tide comes online before Glimmer.
You're probably correct Legacy saw an uptick around that time (I would say Time Spiral, but that was when it was bolstered in my area), but that doesn't mean that "People have been abusing SnT since it was printed." Sure, Show and Tell was always a card that might someday be broken 'if', but there was no incentive to abuse the card until WotC started with the bustedmonstercreep to get little Timmy exited.
My issue is with new design philosophies. I get that they can't catch all the interactions with obscure old cards, but some things are obvious. If there's a permanent that says "You Win!," we're going to find a way to cheat it out.
Sorry bud, you're incredibly wrong with this statement. Show and Tell was actively bad (and was a solid $1 junk rare) until Zendikar block (Oct-2009. Check blacklotusproject.com to verify. Entomb was unbanned, Iona, Shield of Emeria was printed and Reanimator won GP Madrid. Fast forward a few months: Emrakul was printed and one of the early iterations of Sneak & Show Top 8'd GP Columbus in August 2010.
Yes, Show and Tell scales with the dumb yugioh level alien garbage WotC tosses into sets these days, but to say it was always abused is fallacious and hyperbolic. Fox News will be glad to have you.
Please do not insult/flame other users.
Helix
Dragon Breath enables the hasty Emrakul.
Mind's Desire seems win-more until you actually play with 4 in a deck. Then it becomes it's own engine. Desire into another Desire is disgusting.
What's the question?
I get the idea, prices are stupid high these days, but Legacy is fantastic. Banning a swath of cards that give it its identity would destroy it.
I would guess Young Pyromancer speculation. Seems like a fine way to make those 1/1s into something terrifying.
Why would it be bad? You can't Stage-Waste a legendary land due to the new legend rule.