Kurkesh sadly was not good as I was hoping. At face vale I though it was a little Rings or Brighthearth but this is not exactly the case. The card is pretty good but it's not an artifact and will sometimes just be a 4/3 for 4 which is pretty underwhelming. Mimic Vat: is pretty good but the deck does not have a lot of spot removal to turn it on very well. If you are in a meta with a lot of wraths going around, but I felt it just sat there for a while before getting me value so I felt that there were other cards that would get more immediate gains. Blasphemous act: I really want another sweeper in the deck like Obliterate but am settling on this card for now. I'm going to see how it is but I might put in Skred, Aftershock, or something. If only Worldfire wasn't so broke it might not have been banned. Tower of fortunes: With Metalworker being unbanned, So excited, I think that the deck is cranking out more consistent mana and the deck really wants more card draw. Red has been getting more card draw so I'm sure that this card will probably get cut in a while but not yet. Phyrexian Revoker: Great card but to weak to removal so i cut it for Pithing needle. Needle can't be tutored with Recruiter but I'm more concerned with having the card stick around.
Khans had a few good cards for the deck but I have not put any in at this point. Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker is pretty exciting for his ult and ability to survive through my board wipes but I am still on the fence about his power level in the deck. Ugin's Nexus is pretty exciting but not abusable because it exiles so I am still trying to decide what types of changes the deck could do to get more value out of the card. Hopefully, we will be getting Ugin as a card in this set like is being hinted at. He will probably be a colorless planeswalker which would be very exciting for us.
Not a fan of act on impulse. I feel you have to be mite conscious of when you play your powerhouse spells in mono red became we have less counters and huge value swings so impulse encourages you to make bad plays to get value out of it. I'm glad red it's getting draw power but I think thus is more of a burn card.
Ugin's Nexus, it seems pretty well suited for this deck. I want to give it a try. I'm also very excited for the new Sharkon. He is an ok beater with removal and his ultimate is actually pretty good for this deck. We will see what the rest the set holds. Also, the new Commander product being mono color this year is very exciting.
Lair Delve could be good if the deck is at least 70% creatures & land.
Was also thinking Peregrination but the 4CC might be a little high on the curve.
If you have a good amount of lands or top manipulation going like, Sylvan Library, Top, Scroll Rack, or something else then I think Lair Delve could be very good. I think you are right about Peregrination. It seems fine but 4cc can be difficult if you want to play Sasaya on turn 4, flip her and then drop your land. It could still be pretty good, though.
That would be bad but the deck can usually generate enough mana to get pop Depths already. Although, if something goes wrong with Sasaya this could be a good combo.
@hwang24. I found that you need to think hard about playing lands, sometimes it is best to miss a land drop if that means you will have enough lands to flip Sasaya on the next turn. Looking at my list I realized I forgot Sensei's Divining Top which should be in the deck as well. I understand wanting more variety of win conditions and less tutors. I found that I got a little bored with going for the same win cons over and over again. It was more optimal but less fun. I was running 58 lands but I felt that the deck ran a little smother at around 60. Anything less than 55 and it becomes to risky to rely on consistently drawing a land to flip Sasaya.
The last few sets have been very good to this deck. Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient and Soul of New Phyrexia seem to be very well suited for this style of deck and I am excited to get some games in with them. Much like Wurmcoil, Soul of New Phyrexia is a very efficient beater with a very good added ability. It works very well with the them of the deck and has added value by getting an activation out of the graveyard. Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient is sort of like a mini Rings of Brighthearth, and rings is broke in this deck. He has some obvious limitations, but Liquimetal Coating and Mycosynth Lattice make him a better rings. I know the Soul will do well but I am going to keep an eye on him to make sure he really is everything I want him to be. Mimic Vat was added to give the deck a little more interaction with Kurkesh, although it is still a very good card. I feel pretty bad about taking Batterskull and Myr Retriever out of the deck. Myr Retriever is very unassuming but fills a lot of rolls very well. Batterskull is a decent beater and can lead to tons of life gain with Ulamog or Hellkite Ignitor. I will probably try and put these cards back in at some point.
Hello, I'm still here. I think that you don't really need Caged Sun and Extraplanar Lens, Sasaya gives you more then enough mana. I can see using them as a back up, but I was usually able to play and flip her on turn 4-5 and win that turn or the turn after.
Patron of the Orochi: good source of mana but you usually have plenty. Avenger of Zendikar: probably not explosive enough Night Soil[/card]:I'm not really worried about people's graveyard. Gelatinous Genesis: this is a pretty good instant army but probably not as good as Genesis Wave for an X spell. cards with Genesis Wave come into play untapped (i.e. all your lands) and you will probably hit another card that will let you make an army. You want to have your win conditions as creatures so you can tutor for them consistently. I'm running a small amount of win conditions supplemented by tutors because those creatures are the best and I want them above all others.
Token doublers: you should have more than enough tokens already.
Anthems: I ran a few at various points but decided that they were not that good. The deck is very fast and has no way to tutor for something other than lands or creatures so I felt that I never really saw them. Elfhame Sanctuary: this is a card I was not aware of and would probably be a good add.
I am super excited for Soul of New Phyrexia. I'm most likely going to take out Possessed portal for it (portal has not been as good as I want). I feel like the deck needs another beater and I thank Soul of New Phyrexia is pretty good, plus his two abilities are very synergistic with the deck. Coercive Portal on the other hand is not as good IMHO. I like to be more in control if the deck so I don't like that you are not always in control of what happens. If you could guarantee that you always draw a card then I think that 4 mana to draw an extra card would be worth it for this deck but it's pretty easy to have an impressive board state that everyone would want to wreck. If you are good at politics or there are decks in your meta that explode before your deck then it would probably be worth it to put in. If you could just choose which mode this card would be in the deck for sure.
Karn, silver golem had been super good in my deck and works well with lattice to blow up everyone's lands in a pinch. I also really like Hellkite Ignitor as a good kill card and he works well with your infinite mana. I don't go infinite in my deck but he can still come out swinging for 30-40 with a man's doubler and some mana rocks
I think that these changes are pretty self explanatory. Faithless looting was good but I would much rather have something a little more consistent (and artifact based). Everflowing Chalice is good but Treasonous Ogre is insane and can be tutored with Imperial Recruiter. In addition he can possibly be a beater with Dethrone, and you can use his ability to make sure you have less life to trigger dethrone (in a pinch). Pilgrim's Eye just always felt weak so I swapped it out for Wayfarer's Bauble, which has felt better. I would like something else in that low land ramp spot but for now I think Bauble is fine. Switched out Dust Bowl for Strip Mine as I think that the deck is faster then it used to be and I would rather not devote too many resources to this type of effect.
Looks like there are some good things coming our way! I'm excited for Deal Broker and Treasonous Ogre in the upcoming Conspiracy set. Hopefully we will get another card from either Conspiracy or M15.
Some of the changes I will probably be making after the release:
I had been testing (slowly unfortunately) a mini goblin tool box in the deck for a little while but felt that it was a little to slow and cumbersome for the deck. I felt moderately pleased with Goblin Matron and Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker but did not like Goblin Recruiter. The deck does not have Goblin Ringleader to get you a lot of value and it really seemed to slow the deck down. I felt that the tool box it provided was a little to narrow and took the focus off of the goal of "value into an obliterate" and felt a little too durdly. Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker was good but I feel that the selection of targets he has in the deck is a little too slim right now, he is obviously powerful but needs more targets to really shine.
The biggest upgrade in the deck (in a while really) is the inclusion of Imperial Recruiter. I just got my hands on a judge foil and think it brings a lot to the deck. He tutors for Duplicant, Goblin Welder, Magus of the Moon, Myr Retriever, Pentavus, Phyrexian Revoker, Pilgram's Eye (in a pinch), Solemn Simulacrum, and Slobad if necessary. Phyrexian Revoker Replaced Pithing Needle because of the option to tutor and Magus of the Moon was added for the same reason as well as adding more disruption. In addition, I felt the last changes were a little weaker to Torpor Orb, which can be extremely one sided in this deck. The new changes make the deck stronger to the orb again. Possessed Portal was added because I felt that the deck has been feeling pretty light on big mana disruption cards. You are always in control of the effect and can sacrifice it whenever it stops working for you. It can be Tutored with Forgemaster and easily protected. Ideally I would like another Jokulhaups effect but we will have to wait for that, hopefully. I also added Faithless Looting to he deck. I had been going back and forth between Mad Prophet and Rummaging Gobling for a little while. I really wanted that spot to be some sort of card draw but felt that those two were a little slow and cumbersome so I decided to try Looting out. I feel that the deck already runs the most powerful draw that red has to offer and this is basically a way to dig deeper and try to draw into them.
I like pilgrims eye and feel it adds a lit of synergy to the deck but I agree, two extra lands in a color that does not have built in ramp feels like a lot. I'm not set on the changes yet and might switch back.
I made a few changes after some input from bone_doc. I had tried a goblin package during the early stages of the deck and didn't feel it was right at the time. I am facing more hate in the metas where I play and control is a little more of an issue. In addition I have been playing with a more diverse meta and wanted to make the deck more consistent and resilient. Adding ways to tutor Slobad back up and additional ways to get Welder seem to be the way to go. I am trying to get a hold of an Imperial Recruiter, which will replace Goblin Recruiter, but have been having difficulty finding one around here.
I liked Skred a lot but felt it was a weaker option with the synergy I was adding in. I took out Thawing Glaciers because I thought it was too slow as compared to Fetches (I.E. the interaction with Rings of brightharth), but liked having a damage option with Skred, thus adding Mouth of Ronom. I liked the idea of Burnished Hart, but casting on 3 and breaking on 3 felt really bad tempo wise. I added Pilgrim's Eye in its place because I felt it works much better with Kiki-Jiki, Skullclamp, chump blocking, and the effect happens when it EtB, which is better with Slobad. Rummaging Goblin replaces Mad Prophet for the goblin package. I think Mad Prophet is slightly better because of the haste but being able to tutor for him makes him better. Goblin Matron and Goblin Recruiter are good tutors. Recruiter is not as powerful in this deck sense I cant stack a Goblin Ringleader on top for value and I don't think Ringleader is good enough for inclusion for this one situation. Still, he is pretty good. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is one of the best mono red creatures out there. I didn't have him in because I didn't feel I had enough creatures to make it worth while but now I feel I have enough creatures to make it worth while and at the same time he can give my good creatures sudo-haste by just making a copy. I like Godo, Bandit Warlord but don't feel that I have enough room to support him and a goblin package. He is still very good and will probably go back in the deck when I see something else slacking. I took out Codex Shredder which I was not super happy about. I felt the goblins would add some consistency and power to the deck and felt the shredder was one of the weaker cards in the deck but liked the utility it provided. It made top deck tutors obsolete (often people did not realize this until I milled them lol) and was an unconditional recursion. Also, playing this turn one, Slobad turn two, and then strong ramp or Crucible of worlds with protection felt pretty strong. I often milled myself when I had Top of welder out just for value. I know it rarely won a game on its own but its incredible utility. I will also be trying to add it back in but need to figure otu where it will fit best after the changes.
Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient
Phyrexian Revoker
Mimic Vat
Treasonous Ogre
In:
Blasphemous act
Pithing needle
Metalworker
Tower of fortunes
Kurkesh sadly was not good as I was hoping. At face vale I though it was a little Rings or Brighthearth but this is not exactly the case. The card is pretty good but it's not an artifact and will sometimes just be a 4/3 for 4 which is pretty underwhelming.
Mimic Vat: is pretty good but the deck does not have a lot of spot removal to turn it on very well. If you are in a meta with a lot of wraths going around, but I felt it just sat there for a while before getting me value so I felt that there were other cards that would get more immediate gains.
Blasphemous act: I really want another sweeper in the deck like Obliterate but am settling on this card for now. I'm going to see how it is but I might put in Skred, Aftershock, or something. If only Worldfire wasn't so broke it might not have been banned.
Tower of fortunes: With Metalworker being unbanned, So excited, I think that the deck is cranking out more consistent mana and the deck really wants more card draw. Red has been getting more card draw so I'm sure that this card will probably get cut in a while but not yet.
Phyrexian Revoker: Great card but to weak to removal so i cut it for Pithing needle. Needle can't be tutored with Recruiter but I'm more concerned with having the card stick around.
Khans had a few good cards for the deck but I have not put any in at this point. Sarkhan, the Dragonspeaker is pretty exciting for his ult and ability to survive through my board wipes but I am still on the fence about his power level in the deck. Ugin's Nexus is pretty exciting but not abusable because it exiles so I am still trying to decide what types of changes the deck could do to get more value out of the card. Hopefully, we will be getting Ugin as a card in this set like is being hinted at. He will probably be a colorless planeswalker which would be very exciting for us.
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If you have a good amount of lands or top manipulation going like, Sylvan Library, Top, Scroll Rack, or something else then I think Lair Delve could be very good. I think you are right about Peregrination. It seems fine but 4cc can be difficult if you want to play Sasaya on turn 4, flip her and then drop your land. It could still be pretty good, though.
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That would be bad but the deck can usually generate enough mana to get pop Depths already. Although, if something goes wrong with Sasaya this could be a good combo.
@hwang24. I found that you need to think hard about playing lands, sometimes it is best to miss a land drop if that means you will have enough lands to flip Sasaya on the next turn. Looking at my list I realized I forgot Sensei's Divining Top which should be in the deck as well. I understand wanting more variety of win conditions and less tutors. I found that I got a little bored with going for the same win cons over and over again. It was more optimal but less fun. I was running 58 lands but I felt that the deck ran a little smother at around 60. Anything less than 55 and it becomes to risky to rely on consistently drawing a land to flip Sasaya.
RRRSlobad, Goblin TinkererRRR
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7/20/2014
In: Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient, Soul of New Phyrexia, Mimic Vat, Snow-covered Mountain
Out: Mouth of Ronom, Batterskull, Possessed Portal, Myr Retriever
The last few sets have been very good to this deck. Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient and Soul of New Phyrexia seem to be very well suited for this style of deck and I am excited to get some games in with them. Much like Wurmcoil, Soul of New Phyrexia is a very efficient beater with a very good added ability. It works very well with the them of the deck and has added value by getting an activation out of the graveyard. Kurkesh, Onakke Ancient is sort of like a mini Rings of Brighthearth, and rings is broke in this deck. He has some obvious limitations, but Liquimetal Coating and Mycosynth Lattice make him a better rings. I know the Soul will do well but I am going to keep an eye on him to make sure he really is everything I want him to be. Mimic Vat was added to give the deck a little more interaction with Kurkesh, although it is still a very good card. I feel pretty bad about taking Batterskull and Myr Retriever out of the deck. Myr Retriever is very unassuming but fills a lot of rolls very well. Batterskull is a decent beater and can lead to tons of life gain with Ulamog or Hellkite Ignitor. I will probably try and put these cards back in at some point.
RRRSlobad, Goblin TinkererRRR
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Patron of the Orochi: good source of mana but you usually have plenty.
Avenger of Zendikar: probably not explosive enough
Night Soil[/card]:I'm not really worried about people's graveyard.
Gelatinous Genesis: this is a pretty good instant army but probably not as good as Genesis Wave for an X spell. cards with Genesis Wave come into play untapped (i.e. all your lands) and you will probably hit another card that will let you make an army. You want to have your win conditions as creatures so you can tutor for them consistently. I'm running a small amount of win conditions supplemented by tutors because those creatures are the best and I want them above all others.
Token doublers: you should have more than enough tokens already.
Anthems: I ran a few at various points but decided that they were not that good. The deck is very fast and has no way to tutor for something other than lands or creatures so I felt that I never really saw them.
Elfhame Sanctuary: this is a card I was not aware of and would probably be a good add.
RRRSlobad, Goblin TinkererRRR
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-Faithless looting
-Everflowing Chalice
-Pilgrim's Eye
-Dust Bowl
+Deal Broker
+Treasonous Ogre
+Wayfarer's Bauble
+Strip Mine
I think that these changes are pretty self explanatory. Faithless looting was good but I would much rather have something a little more consistent (and artifact based). Everflowing Chalice is good but Treasonous Ogre is insane and can be tutored with Imperial Recruiter. In addition he can possibly be a beater with Dethrone, and you can use his ability to make sure you have less life to trigger dethrone (in a pinch). Pilgrim's Eye just always felt weak so I swapped it out for Wayfarer's Bauble, which has felt better. I would like something else in that low land ramp spot but for now I think Bauble is fine. Switched out Dust Bowl for Strip Mine as I think that the deck is faster then it used to be and I would rather not devote too many resources to this type of effect.
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Some of the changes I will probably be making after the release:
-Faithless looting
-Everflowing Chalice
-Pilgrim's Eye
+Deal Broker
+Treasonous Ogre
+Wayfarer's Bauble
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In: Imperial Recruiter, Possessed Portal, Faithless Looting, Magus of the Moon, Phyrexian Revoker
Out: Goblin Matron, Rummaging Goblin, Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker, Pithing Needle, Goblin Recruiter
I had been testing (slowly unfortunately) a mini goblin tool box in the deck for a little while but felt that it was a little to slow and cumbersome for the deck. I felt moderately pleased with Goblin Matron and Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker but did not like Goblin Recruiter. The deck does not have Goblin Ringleader to get you a lot of value and it really seemed to slow the deck down. I felt that the tool box it provided was a little to narrow and took the focus off of the goal of "value into an obliterate" and felt a little too durdly. Kiki-jiki, Mirror Breaker was good but I feel that the selection of targets he has in the deck is a little too slim right now, he is obviously powerful but needs more targets to really shine.
The biggest upgrade in the deck (in a while really) is the inclusion of Imperial Recruiter. I just got my hands on a judge foil and think it brings a lot to the deck. He tutors for Duplicant, Goblin Welder, Magus of the Moon, Myr Retriever, Pentavus, Phyrexian Revoker, Pilgram's Eye (in a pinch), Solemn Simulacrum, and Slobad if necessary. Phyrexian Revoker Replaced Pithing Needle because of the option to tutor and Magus of the Moon was added for the same reason as well as adding more disruption. In addition, I felt the last changes were a little weaker to Torpor Orb, which can be extremely one sided in this deck. The new changes make the deck stronger to the orb again. Possessed Portal was added because I felt that the deck has been feeling pretty light on big mana disruption cards. You are always in control of the effect and can sacrifice it whenever it stops working for you. It can be Tutored with Forgemaster and easily protected. Ideally I would like another Jokulhaups effect but we will have to wait for that, hopefully. I also added Faithless Looting to he deck. I had been going back and forth between Mad Prophet and Rummaging Gobling for a little while. I really wanted that spot to be some sort of card draw but felt that those two were a little slow and cumbersome so I decided to try Looting out. I feel that the deck already runs the most powerful draw that red has to offer and this is basically a way to dig deeper and try to draw into them.
RRRSlobad, Goblin TinkererRRR
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In: Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker, Rummaging Goblin, Goblin Matron, Goblin Recruiter, Pilgrim's Eye, Mouth of Ronom
Out: Burnished Hart, Godo, Bandit Warlord, Skred, Mad Prophet, Codex Shredder, Thawing Glaciers
I made a few changes after some input from bone_doc. I had tried a goblin package during the early stages of the deck and didn't feel it was right at the time. I am facing more hate in the metas where I play and control is a little more of an issue. In addition I have been playing with a more diverse meta and wanted to make the deck more consistent and resilient. Adding ways to tutor Slobad back up and additional ways to get Welder seem to be the way to go. I am trying to get a hold of an Imperial Recruiter, which will replace Goblin Recruiter, but have been having difficulty finding one around here.
I liked Skred a lot but felt it was a weaker option with the synergy I was adding in. I took out Thawing Glaciers because I thought it was too slow as compared to Fetches (I.E. the interaction with Rings of brightharth), but liked having a damage option with Skred, thus adding Mouth of Ronom. I liked the idea of Burnished Hart, but casting on 3 and breaking on 3 felt really bad tempo wise. I added Pilgrim's Eye in its place because I felt it works much better with Kiki-Jiki, Skullclamp, chump blocking, and the effect happens when it EtB, which is better with Slobad. Rummaging Goblin replaces Mad Prophet for the goblin package. I think Mad Prophet is slightly better because of the haste but being able to tutor for him makes him better. Goblin Matron and Goblin Recruiter are good tutors. Recruiter is not as powerful in this deck sense I cant stack a Goblin Ringleader on top for value and I don't think Ringleader is good enough for inclusion for this one situation. Still, he is pretty good. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker is one of the best mono red creatures out there. I didn't have him in because I didn't feel I had enough creatures to make it worth while but now I feel I have enough creatures to make it worth while and at the same time he can give my good creatures sudo-haste by just making a copy. I like Godo, Bandit Warlord but don't feel that I have enough room to support him and a goblin package. He is still very good and will probably go back in the deck when I see something else slacking. I took out Codex Shredder which I was not super happy about. I felt the goblins would add some consistency and power to the deck and felt the shredder was one of the weaker cards in the deck but liked the utility it provided. It made top deck tutors obsolete (often people did not realize this until I milled them lol) and was an unconditional recursion. Also, playing this turn one, Slobad turn two, and then strong ramp or Crucible of worlds with protection felt pretty strong. I often milled myself when I had Top of welder out just for value. I know it rarely won a game on its own but its incredible utility. I will also be trying to add it back in but need to figure otu where it will fit best after the changes.
RRRSlobad, Goblin TinkererRRR
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