Mikaeus is an excellent choice for mono b zombies, just for undying. There's the obvious combos withTriskellion and Skinrender that can give you some power if need be. For a strict zombies build I prefer him over Geth because it saves your lords. Might not be a bad idea to pony up for him now, or wait for the black commander deck to release.
Tymaret is resilient and with a bit of help from things like Death Baron can make for a neat control build in Rakdos colors.
Believe it or not, I'm not biased on picking Grimgrin as your general. Dimir offers some counterspell and mill strategy that you may find useful. He's also cheap to pick up, and combos well with a few other cards.
Sedris is pretty great for self mill or reusing your big creatures,but imo he better serves as a way to cheat big creatures into play. That doesn't mean you can't find some cool zombie interactions in grixis though. Don't forget about Thraximundar!
I'm not going to critique the creature list too much given that I run a very different style, but I think that I can give some advice on your instants/sorceries, artifacts, and enchantments.
Rooftop Storm seems like a necessity in a strongly zombie-based list. It gives you a lot of tempo and helps Grimgrin get replayed.
Unhallowed Pact seems like it could be Nim Deathmantle or Darksteel Plate or Shield of Kaldra. Same sort of effect and are all a bit more resilient in U/B (there is artifact recursion in blue, but no enchantment recursion. Fool's Demise seems to be a strictly better version of this card that will serve its role just fine.
I'd be careful with Dark Prophecy. It can give you massive card advantage, but at the same time, it can make you lose a lot of life when you don't want to. What would happen if someone wrath'd your Army of the Damned late in the game? It could be backbreaking. I'd look at Phyrexian Arena for the same sort of draw without limiting yourself. Grimgrin also has the potential to infinitely sac Gravecrawler if you have Rooftop Storm and Dark Prophecy would screw you over in that situation since you have no ability to kill enchantments and what little ways you might have, you wouldn't want to waste on yourself.
Sever the Bloodline is an absolutely incredible removal spell. It gives you exile in black and also works as a sort of Maelstrom Pulse effect. Excellent against token strats and has flashback on it.
I like what Tragic Slip does for the deck and wouldn't remove it, but you should look at potentially putting a couple counterspells in the deck. Doesn't have to be more than about two, but if you're running U/B and have very limited responses to things like artifacts, enchantments, or planeswalkers other than countering it on the stack, you need to be able to respond to those threats. Dissipate, Soul Manipulation, Hinder, Spell Crumple, Counterspell, are my best suggestions.
Some of your cards bring back all creatures from all graveyards, I think that it would be good to have more graveyard hate, i.e. Tormod's Crypt or Nezumi Graverobber to protect your spells from benefiting your opponents to much.
Phthisis either seems too expensive to me or too slow. If you want a blowout lose life effect, I'd suggest Exsanguinate. If you want removal, I think there are more efficient cards that could fill that slot. It's also a sorcery, which doesn't help too much either.
You have 13 swamps in deck and I'll guess you won't consistently have even half of them so, without Urborg on the field, Mutilate doesn't do a ton for you. I'd consider, potentially, putting Black Sun's Zenith in instead.
Hope this feedback helps. Just what I had off the top of my head.
The problem that I have with Rooftop Storm is that it enables an infinite combo with Gravecrawler and Grimgrin, Corpse-Born. I do not mind playing against decks that contain infinite combos, but I do prefer to build and pilot decks that don't. It's just who I am and I like the restriction it gives my decks. This isn't to say that this card is bad, though. In a dedicated tribal build this card is the nuts, and combined with any sort of card draw engine it has the chance to flip your deck onto the battlefield. I've used it before and I love it, but the temptation of tutoring for it or Gravecrawler is too much for me, and (for me) it doesn't feel rewarding to want to win that way every time. It's a shame because I own a foil copy.
Hero's Downfall is a good suggestion. I always find that, when I build decks, that I include ways to rid creatures with other creatures, but I always find myself asking for help from the table after a board wipe. Adding more straight kill spells and one that also targets planeswalkers is a very worthy inclusion. Since you've mentioned it before and it shares the same CMC, it will come in for Unhallowed Pact.
Black Sun's Zenith I know I have a copy of this somewhere, so when I find it I will swap it out for Mutilate. You make an excellent point with the lack of swamps and having to rely on Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
Phthisis This was in the deck as another kill spell but to also hose my friend who plays Trostani Lifegain with Serra Avatar. I figure that I can probably swap it with a better spell, but your other comment about not having a way to deal with enchantments or artifacts once they hit the field. So, since it also has the same CMC, I am swapping it with Spine of Ish Sah. It answers any permanent and is self recurring. To get the most out of it I'll need a way to repeated put it in the graveyard. Since sacrificing is a theme in the deck, Trading Post can come in for Wight of Precinct Six because currently it's not helping me. It sacs artifacts and creatures, and recurs artifacts and makes a Goat token. After all, sacrificial goats are the best kind of offering.
Dark Prophecy is a card that I really enjoy playing with, despite the dangerous downsides. The only part I don't like about it is the fact that it costs triple B to play. I've considered tossing in Phyrexian Arena before, but it's so damn abundant that I'm just sick of seeing it. I have been thinking of adding Mystic Remora because it only costs 1 U and will draw way more cards than I spent to cast it. The other options are Greed, Erebos, God of the Dead, Necropotence, and Rhystic Study. Greed can get costly after a while, but it is controlled draw which is attractive. Erebos does it better by being indestructible and preventing life gain which is useful in my meta. However, there's a new Erebos deck in the meta so I'm not sure if I want to double dip. Necropotence has the same problem as Dark Prophecy by costing triple B, and it shuts off other draw, so I don't think it would be useful here. I've never used it so I can't be for certain. Rhystic Study is another option, a card which I have multiple copies of. Saying "Rhystic Trigger" multiple times a turn can get quite repetitive, and later in the game people won't mind paying the extra 1.
Unfortunately since I would like to renaimate some of my opponents' creatures anything with tuck won't help me , even if it means never tucking opposing generals. There is Soul Manipulation as you've mentioned which I still have a copy of lying around. This can come in for Crypsis. I do like the idea of Dissipate to remove problem enchantments and artifacts from the game, but I'm torn between it and because the minor draw fixing looks appealing and I can always reanimate opposing artifacts with Geth, Lord of the Vault. I could just as well add SDT or Crystal Ball, but unless I'm working with a top deck manipulation theme I really don't see a need for them. Thoughts?
Since the card's release, I've had a Grimgrin deck at my disposal since almost the very beginning of my EDH career. After making a plethora of tweaks, builds, strategies, and buying cards, I had the deck at a point where I was truly happy with it. Or so I thought. After a few games, I felt the deck had lost it's focus and had turned into a bunch of cards that I really enjoyed playing with, worked well with each other, but were trying to do too much at once. In an effort to keep the deck fresh and fun to pilot, I decided to rebuild my deck from the ground up. This new rendition of the deck takes advantage of Grimgrin's interactions between a few key cards, and is built on using him as much as possible by dropping him early, offering protection, and building around all of the abilities he has. This deck is not a voltron deck, nor does it require Grimgrin in play to perform well. With an understanding of what cards really work for me and which strategies work best (imo) with Grimgrin, this deck has, so far, performed as intended. I am set on not only making this deck and strategy better, but perfecting it; not perfection as in making the deck unbeatable, but making sure that every single card interacts with another in some way to make this a well oiled and ultimately easy and fun to pilot war machine. It is not meant to be oppressive, but it does attempt to remain strong through every stage of the game.
With all decks that are built around their chosen general, it is of utmost importance to fully understand each aspect that the face of your deck will bring to the table. This includes who your general is, what your general is to your strategy, and how vital they will be for the deck's success.
Starting from the beginning, The first card your opponents will see is the man in black (and blue). Grimgrin flies the Dimir colors, which should signal to your opponents that you may be up to some graveyard shenanigans, counterspells, creature destruction and sacrifice. I know in my own playgroup, the majority of players dislike Blue and immediately paint a target on my head, but your meta may vary. Grimgrin is a 5/5 Zombie Warrior with a CMC of 5. Having the creature type zombie and being in the Dimir colors opens up a ton of options for a zombie tribal build, so cards that support the zombie subtype will be welcome additions to the deck. The warrior subtype doesn't offer too much support in these colors, though there are special cases such as in the form of Obsidian Battle-Axe. From a Vorthosian perspectivem, it just means that Grimgrin is ready and able to duke it out on the battlefield. At a converted mana cost of 5 Grimgrin is able to come down during the end of the developmental stages of the game (early game). Utility creatures are abound, mana bases are making their way to optimal levels, and there hopefully aren't too many threats on the table yet. Because of this, people may be holding up removal, so it may be unsafe to drop the big guy on turn 5 without adequete protection. It's also worth mentioning that Grimgrin is only 2 power away from being a 3 hit kill, and given his abilities, which will be discussed below, makes him a respectable beater for his cost.
Abilities are what defines generals, and are usually the main reasons why they are selected in the first place. Grimgrin is no different for this build. The first ability reads: Grimgrin, Corpse-Born enters the battlefield tapped. This means that wherever Grimgrin enters the battlefield from, whether it's from the Graveyard, Library, Hand, Command Zone, Exile, or Blink, he will always enter sideways. This is a downside to Grimgrin, however there are ways around it. There are a plethora of untap effects out there such as Fatestitcher and Thousand-Year Elixir that can untap him with ease. However Grimgrin comes with a built in way to resolve this problem. His second ability reads: Sacrifice another creature: Untap Grimgrin and put a +1/+1 Counter on it. With enough things to eat, untapping Grimgrin shouldn't be a problem. In fact, this is a wonderful ability to have as it gives you vigilance provided you have enough snacks to satiate his hunger, and Grimgrin gets bigger every time you sac a creature with the ability. Token creators like Ophiomancer and Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder provide plenty of tokens for Grimgrin to eat. Creature tokens and creatures that are easy to recur or provide some benefit upon death are preferred. Grimgrin's last ability reads: Whenever Grimgrin attacks, sacrifice target creature defending player controls, then put a +1/+1 counter on Grimgrin. This means that upon the declaration of attack, Grimgrin acts as a kill spell while also beefing himself up, provided that there is a targetable opposing creature. Doing some simple math here, untapping Grimgrin with a creature, and then eating an opposing creature brings Grimgrin's power to the magical number 7.
What makes Grimgrin such a respectable choice for a general is the variety of directions you can take the deck, should you choose to build around him. Zombie Tribal, Mill, Combo, and Voltron are all viable paths to take when Grimgrin is in the hotseat. With all of that being said, I find I get the most out of him by using his second ability, killing off your own creatures to do various things throughout the game. It's very easy to go infinite with a few cards and make Grimgrin a 1 hit killing machine, but it's also not that hard to do it without going infinite (it also feels more rewarding for me when I have to work for it).
As stated above, there are a few cards to get around the ETB Tapped clause without resorting to sacrificing creature, but in my opinion you absolutely want to use the second ability as much as possible to get the most out of Grimgrin. That doesn't mean we can't include a few ways to cheat in an uptap effect or two, though. With that, we'll look at some key creatures that will help keep Grimgrin up and running.
Creatures that are self recurring or cards that produce tokens are excellent partners for Grimgrin to get him started.
Gravecrawler is Grimgrin's best friend. Sacrifice him to Grimgrin's 2nd ability, pay B to bring him back to the battlefield. Simple, yet effective. Reassembling Skeleton does the same for 1B, but does not require a zombie to be on the battlefield, and can be activated at instant speed if you need an untap immediately. Ogre Slumlord does some fine work in this deck. Everytime Grimgrin eats an opposing non token creature, you get a free 1/1 rat with deathtouch that you can either use as a blocker or to untap Grimgrin. Undead Alchemist turns your gameplan on it's head by making all of your combat damage to players from Zombies into mill. It's second ability means that whenever any creature enters the graveyard from the library, that creature is exiled and you get a 2/2 zombie token. This can quickly get out of control if unanswered, as not even Eldrazi or Colossus can stop you. Endrek Sahr's greatness comes from the fact that it can produce multiple token creatures per creature cast. The seven or more drawback on this card is mitigated from Grimgrin's second ability. We can sacrifice all of the thrulls away without ever getting to seven. Ophiomancer pops out one deathtouch token on every upkeep. While being a decent blocker. It also gives a way to untap Grimgrin and pump him up on every single turn! With more players comes more snakes and a bigger general as a result. Grave Titan makes an appearance in this deck because it puts 2 tokens into play upon entering the battlefield, and two more on every attack thereafter. Better yet, they are zombie tokens so they can take advantage of the tribal support cards in the deck. Manbag (satchel) may not always produce a token, but it also has a chance of helping us ramp or gaining 2 life on each activation. Lich Lord of Unx puts in one zombie wizard token and also has the potential to mill an opponent for a decent amount in addition to doing damage! Tombstone Stairwell gives a substantial amount of tokens with a fully stocked graveyard, while also giving each opponent the same benefit on each upkeep. However, those tokens are destroyed at end of turn, so using all of the tokens on each turn can generate some serious advantage. Endless Ranks of the Dead requires a bit of a board presence, but when it gets going there will be enough zombies to either overrun your opponent or create game changing sacrifice fodder.
Since the best way of untapping Grimgrin is through sacrificing creatures, we can take advantage of this by adding a few cards to profit even more off of it.
Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos are two powerhouse enchantments that forces each opponent to sacrifice one creature per creature lost on our end. So, every time we sacrifice one creature, so must everyone else. Blade of the Bloodchief grants extra counters when one of our creatures kicks the bucket, and performs double duty on Vampire creatures. Dark Prophecy allows us to draw cards off of each creature that dies. This can get dangerous if you have a large board presence and someone drops a board wipe, but that's a small price to pay when you're busy drawing gas. Speaking of drawing gas, Skullclamp is in here to draw to cards off of the equipped creature. Snake Tokens, Reassembling Skeleton, Rat, and Thrull tokens make excellent use of this card. Tragic Slip is one of the best spot removal spells in the deck when Morbid is activated. More often than not, you're giving target creature -13/-13 for B at instant speed.
Additional sacrifice outlets will add more synergy to the deck as a whole for when Grimgrin is not around.
Viscera Seer helps smooth out draws when sacrificing creatures. It's also an excellent target for Blade of the Bloodchief. Carrion Feeder is a miniature version of Grimgrin, gaining a +1/+1 counter for each creature it eats, all for one mana! Altar of Dementia adds a mill subtheme to the deck, allowing each creature to turn enemy libraries upside down. Mortarpod may seem like the odd man out in this deck, but with things like Ophiomancer and Ogre Slumlord, those tokens become killspells for 2! The often overlooked part of the card is that it brings it's own token into play, which can be used for various things.
Focusing on Grimgrin's third ability, I've added a few cards that can generate even more advantage when he successfully kills a creature.
Unhallowed Pact can steal an opposing creature that Grimgrin eats. An argument can be made saying that if I can't enchant it then I can't steal it. This is true, but it also means that it can't be targeted by Grimgrin's ability in the first place. Fool's Demise is similar in nature, but for a bit more mana you can use the effect again and again. Grim Return is the instant version of Unhallowed Pact, and is great when you can catch someone off guard with it.
Adding more mill to the deck will help create a small subtheme to give us an extra win condition.
Dimir Charm counters opposing game ending sorcery spells like Insurrection and Rise of the Dark Realms, kills a utility creature, and messes with the top three cards of any player's library. It does all that Dimir usually does and it does this very well for only UB. Sword of Body and Mind offers protection from Simic, creates a token for sacrificing, and mills the top 10 cards upon contact. Phenax, God of Deception turns all of our creatures into milling machines. Geth, Lord of the Vault simultaneously steals opposing creatures and artifacts while milling the opponent for the cards CMC.
The deck will cause each player's graveyard to be full at most points of the game, so some graveyard control and shenanigans will be welcome additions.
Nihil Spellbomb nukes someone's graveyard upon tap, and draws us a card for B. In decks that play black, I prefer this over Tormod's Crypt just because of the extra card draw. Nezumi Graverobber gets rid of a single card in a graveyard. When it flips, it turns into a Rise from the Grave on a stick. Withered Wretch removes one card for 1 generic mana. Coffin Queen reanimates a creature and then exiles it if the queen dies or is untapped. So when something better comes along, untap it and take it! Necromancy reanimates a creature as an enchantment, but can be used at instant speed in case of emergency. Another instant, Fated Return, can also reanimate a creature. It may cost 4BBB, but it makes gives the creature indestructible so it sticks around longer. It also fixes our library a bit if it's used on our turn. Havengul Lich can grab any creature in a graveyard provided you have the colored mana to cast it. Lich is mostly useful for our deck, but grabbing enemy Solemn Simulacrum and other useful artifact creatures can swing the game in our favor. All Hallow's Eve brings all of the creatures in all graveyards to the battlefield. If it's not countered, you have two turns to mess with opposing graveyards before the effect goes off. This gives you time to make this a one sided effect. Wight of Precinct Six is a cheap beater that gets larger as the game goes on. Necrotic Ooze is able to use any activated ability of a creature in a graveyard for itself. This means it can be a Nezumi Graverobber, a Coffin Queen, or even a Burnished Hart if there's one around.
Zombies tribal support will give Grimgrin and other cards more oomph.
Death Baron gives all of our zombies and skeletons deathtouch and a P/T boost. The deathtouch is the most important part, as it makes opponents weary of attacking or blocking zombies, and it turns our zombie tokens into kill spells with Mortarpod. Undead Warchief makes our zombie spells cheaper and gives a sizable P/T boost. Graveborn Muse has the potential to draw a bunch of cards decent board presence. At worst, it draws an extra card per turn by itself. Vengeful Dead causes each opponent to lose 1 life when any zombie dies. This turns Tombstone Stairwell into a game ending threat. Zombie Apocalypse brings back all of the deck's zombies for a second round of undead mayhem. Army of the Damned puts down 26 power on the board without support, and a ton of sacrifice fodder.
Throwing in a some ramp, kill spells, boardwipes, ways to protect Grimgrin, and otherwise useful spells and that's it, deck is made.
It was a lot of fun and very insightful to rework the deck, cracking down on what really works for me and Grimgrin and takng out what doesn't. I'd love some feedback or suggestions as to what can be added to further push the deck along. At this moment, three things come to mind:
Zombie Master could be swapped in for Filth. Filth was put in because it can be easily sacced to Grimgrin and it gives the whole team swamp walk, not just zombies. However, Zombie Master is cheaper and allows Grimgrin and other Zombies to regenerate. If I find myself attacking with Zombies more than other types of creatures, I may make this change.
Trinket Mage may have a place in here. There's a few CMC 1 artifacts that are important to the strategy and other useful ones, so it won't be bad late game either. At worst, it can be sacced for profit. If it does end up in the deck later on, I may have to readd Sol Ring.
Blood Artist also may have a place in here. I don't own a copy, but becuase I don't plan on going infinite I don't know how well it would fare in the deck. If anyone has good results with this card, please let me know.
Okay so I threw Phenax, God of Deception in for Diabolic Tutor. Just testing him out for now, but I hope he'll find a permanent spot. I am decently happy with the cut, but I'll finalize the change if I get a good chance to utilize him.
Any suggestions on what to cut for Ophiomancer? I mean, I like the card and my friend runs it in his Teysa deck, but he isn't easily brought back like most of my other sac engine creatures, which is a problem. I don't like how it doesn't have resiliency and only produces one snake at a time and only if there wasn't another one in play. Not trying to make it out like it is a bad card in any way, but this decklist is pretty tight at the moment so if something goes it, something as good or better is probably coming out.
This is going to sound absurd, but after looking over the entire decklist I don't think Sorin has a place here. Reason being, his plus ability doesn't do much in EDH. His most often used second isn't as strong in your list. If your primary goal is to win via general 21, or combo out if necessary, marking someone down to 10 life really doesn't push you forward in my opinion.
Another suggestion would be Evil Twin. You have plenty of ways to kill off opposing creatures, so paying 6 for a copy and a kill spell isn't as good when you could be playing other spells like Mikey or Grave Titan.
I've been running it in my Grimgrin deck since it was spoiled and its worked wonders. It provides a nice rattlesnake effect during your opponents turns, while providing Grimgrin (and Skullclamp) a constant food source.
I'll second this. It makes Grimgrin larger on every turn while untapping it (which also triggers Dictate of Erebos and Grave Pact every turn), gives fodder for the aformentioned Skullclamp, Viscera Seer, and Mortarpod shennanigans (on your turn obviously). Plus, the image of Grimgrin eating poisonous snakes for fun is amusing.
I actually just fully read Phenax, God of Deception in context of what he could do in Grimgrin. I was thinking too linearly. It is a tap effect and every time I sacrifice a creature, I untap Grimgrin. If I had the capability to sacrifice 9 creatures in a turn, I could essentially deck out any single person at any point past turn 2. The later in the game it goes as well, the easier it becomes to mill a person with less resources. I think that Phenax actually has a lot of potential as an alternate win condition in this deck and I'm really going to look for a way to include him ASAP.
Any suggestions on where he would go? This list is flat out painful to try and cut stuff from.
I would either cut Bloodgift Demon, Evil Twin, or Diabolic Tutor. It looks like you already have enough card draw to cut the demon, and if you wanted more you could always include Graveborn Muse instead. Diabolic Tutor is outclassed by the many other tutors available to you, so if you're looking for an alternate win condition instead of more of the same, try swapping that out for Phenax. Evil Twin is nice for being able to kill off opposing creatures, but Grimgrin does that for you, and you have quite a few exile options at your disposal as well. And yes, having lots of small creatures with both Phenax and Grimgrin out is very satisfying. Phenax also powers up your Sepulchral Primordial and Nezumi Graverobber.
I like having many avenues to victory in my decks, and while it makes some strategies weaker it makes the deck more fun for me as a whole. As far as Phenax goes, I want to live the dream of using it with Undead Alchemist. It also helps out some of my reanimation and mill game plans (no Eldrazis in my meta). What I don't like so far is that he needs other creatures to make an impact. So while he survives a board wipe, he sits there until i can recover.
I would second Steel Hellkite and also consider Geth, Lord of the Vault. He can take over games by himself and assuming no Eldrazis can give you another win condition.
He's definitely worth consideration, but is more of a Black "goodstuff" card than anything else. It also could potentially be difficult to use his ability the turn he comes down, meaning that you may not get the chance to use him. However, I may try to find a spot to test him in, although it is really hard to tell what cards to cut sometimes when a deck has changed a lot in a short time.
One thing that I am swapping that may be pretty controversial is I am going to be putting Darksteel Plate in for Thousand-Year Elixir. I have many reliable ways to untap Grimgrin these days and only 1 activated ability in the entire deck (which getting haste for Evil Twin shouldn't even be an issue if I need that). What I am lacking, though, is indestructibility, which hopefully Darksteel Plate will help out with.
For the underlined, you could make the same argument for Steel Hellkite. Geth does not require haste for it to work, but it does require additional mana. As part of the 99, Geth is better suited towards mid to late game play, when graveyards are larger and/or haven't been purged yet. Hellkite requires haste and player contact for it's ability to work. However, it doesn't care about colored mana, is highly effective against token strategies, and destroys enchantments, which Dimir sometimes has trouble dealing with.
Geth may be more goodstuff, but that shouldn't deter you from using him. Consider the following example, which isn't too "Magical Christmas Land":
Geth, Lord of the Vault is in play. You have two opponents, one with a Solemn Simulacrum, another with Burnished Hart, both in the graveyard. Geth can steal any one of those creatures and use their abilities to either ramp you or draw you cards. These effects can happen again and again with the help of Grimgrin. The first opponent gives Geth the following, B4: Get a 2/2 artifact and put a tapped basic land into play, that opponent mills 4. With Grimgrin, this now reads, B4: Get a 2/2 artifact and put a tapped basic land into play, that opponent mills 4. (Sacrifice the 2/2) Untap Grimgrin and put a +1/+1 Counter on it, draw a card.
This gives you a ton of card advantage and some interaction with your opponents as well. Hellkite also gives you interaction while solving a problem permanent, which is also very nice. I prefer to play Geth, but to each their own.
As for your swap of the Elixir with the Plate, I agree that it's a good change. I recently changed my Grimgrin build (which I have yet to update) and Thousand Year Elixir just isn't as useful with more support for the big guy. I still keep it in for things like Phenax, God of Deception, but it seems to have lost it's usefulness. Let me know how games go without it, I'd love to hear your results.
I would second Steel Hellkite and also consider Geth, Lord of the Vault. He can take over games by himself and assuming no Eldrazis can give you another win condition.
The main-main thing I'm surprised you're not running is Strionic Resonator. The main theme of my Medomai deck is triggered ability abuse; it just so happens that most of those triggered abilities are from combat damage, such that double strike becomes another way to abuse them. In your deck, cards like Fireshrieker don't appear as important as you don't have nearly as many "magpies" and "ninjas" as I do, but Resonator will trigger all of your ETB effects, from Knight of the White Orchid to Mnemonic Wall.
If you still like the double-strike-combat-triggers idea, here are a few creatures whose combat triggers also trigger Ephara's ability:
-- Precinct Captain (built-in first strike is also nice in voltron)
-- Sharding Sphinx (same idea except bigger and flying)
-- Undead Alchemist
-- Brago, King Eternal
-- Sphinx Ambassador
-- Isperia the Inscrutable is neat with double strike. Your second guess is always right and she provides more creatures for Ephara triggers.
-- Ninjas not only have relevant combat triggers, but also return creatures to hand for reliable Ephara triggers
Some card choices are downright confusing (Hundred-Handed One?) while others are a bit weaksauce, like Grand Architect, Ascended Lawmage and Plumeveil. Yes, Plumeveil has flash for Ephara, but I think people really ought to choose either to go with a flash creature theme, or don't bother with weak flash creatures and just have reliable ways to dig for Leyline of Anticipation and Vedalken Orrery.
Thanks for the reply Hallucigenia, I appreciate it very much.
You're right, I should probably be running resonator, and maybe throw in Fabricate to tutor it up.
Precinct Captain I like that it adds to Ephara's devotion early in the game, and that it also triggers upon contact. Looks excellent. Sharding Sphinx Doesn't add as much devotion, but it's the same idea and I happen to have a copy from the precon. I'll find room for this. Undead Alchemist I'm not to keen on adding this guy, although it is one of my favorite cards in my Grimgrin build. I don't feel like he would add enough to the plan. The chance for a free creature is nice and it can add up quickly, but milling instead of damage wouldn't really fit the theme for me. Brago, King Eternal Useless with double strike unless I'm missing something, but it would fit the theme. I think there's a flying kithkin card, the name escapes me, that does this upon attack as well. Both should be considered here, thank you. Sphinx Ambassador More like sphinx badassador in this deck! It's got a large cmc, but with all of the counter magic I have it should stick around and bring the pain (and some extra goodies) to the board. Isperia the Inscrutable adds to the devotion plan big time! I may have to add a few more flier and maybe create a little toolbox for her to play with, but this is a solid inclusion.
Hundred-Handed One This was put in the deck due to a lack of good white beaters/defenders that I had available/thought of. The idea of it holding Godsend was cute, but never went off. It's actually been replaced with Medomai, so I'll have to make that update soon. Grand Architect With a bit more deck tweaking, this card is going to be an all star. It already helps with setting up devotion, turns Ephara up to the magical number 7 for the 3 turn commander damage clock, and helps with activating equipment and casting artifacts with flash. You know...Strionic Resonator would greatly appreciate having the Architect around. I like the card, for now, but I think adding a few mana rocks might also help push the deck in a safer/stronger route while also making the architect more versatile. Ascended Lawmage Added due to the devotion pump, being hexproof, and having natural evasion. It seemed like a solid inclusion at the time, being a great target for the pump spells and the like, but I suppose I could replace it for another creature that actually does something on contact, like a ninja. Plumeveil I like the wall of birds due to it having flash, but it's also an outstanding devotion enabler at it's cmc. It can't beat, but having it stick around and defend has proved to be useful, and has even caught a few friends off guard a couple of times. Is there something else at this CMC that would help with devotion and is maybe able to beat? Vedalken Orrery I didn't even know this was reprinted, so perhaps I can pick up a copy for cheap? Also a potential fabricate target, should I choose to include it.
And for the obvious derp, Stolen Identity is indeed a sorcery, the cipher must have confused me when writing this up. Thanks for the catch.
My next post should be the updates and fixes on the cards, and hopefully more games played with the deck to see where else I can improve on this strategy.
Hello Hallucigenia, here's hoping you still have things going on with this deck. I've recently made an Ephara, God of the Polis deck that is loosely based off of this Medomai list. First off, thank you for posting your deck here as its me inspiration for some of my card choices. I would like you to look at my list when you have a moment, maybe to further push me off in the right direction. It's not an exact copy of your deck, but there's enough similarities to where I feel it would be beneficial to ask for your help.
Some questions I have for your deck:
You have 24 creatures (including the general) and 17 equipment/enchantments to pump up your creatures. Do you feel like this is a good body-to-pump spell ratio for the deck?
How have Battle Mastery and Steel of the Godhead worked for you as creature pump spells? Both are recurrable via Sun Titan and help further the game plan along by giving you a potential two extra turns with Medomai and making it unblockable.
So after buying packs of Born of the Gods to expand my card collection, I pulled what would be my third copy of this card. After being sick of seeing it and not having a use for it, I decided to create a deck out of the Azorius God. Within that same pack, however, was a foil Godsend, which helped start the fire for the idea of this deck. Loosely based off of Hallucigenia's Medomai's Ageless Network deck idea, this Ephara build revolves around using double strike on opponents to gain benefit from various effects, some tricks to trigger Ephara's ability and eventually beat down with it, and living the dream of equipping Godsend to Tromokratis.
This deck is still in it's early development stage, so there are probably a few key pieces that I could add, any help in finding them would be greatly appreciated. As it stands now, the deck heavily supports Sun Titan, allowing him to pick up the majority of helpful permanents that can move the game plan along. With that, there are more than a few "poor man's fetchlands" to keep Emeria Angel triggering through multiple people in a round, thus gaining benefit from Ephara. Some questions I have for other people who have had experiences with this deck type (rafiq players, perhaps?):
Daxos of Meletis is a card I am considering playing in the deck. However, I play little to no mana rocks so I don't know if the addition of this beater would warrant a slight change in the deck build. It would increase my resilience against Armageddon type cards by having a few mana pieces left standing. However, if I spend some of that mana on my turn to cast the opponent's spells, I may not have enough mana left up for my counter magic. Would the addition of Daxos help or hinder my current list? I would like to keep the counter magic suite I have while also beating down on my opponents. I am also looking for other creatures with neat combat damage triggers that would help fit the theme of the deck.
Looking at other Cipher cards, I found Voidwalk. This also got me thinking, would adding other enchantments be worth a couple of cuts? Adding Voidwalk would help trigger Ephara's ability while also resetting other ETB triggers. There's also things like Eldrazi Conscription, Steel of the Godhead, and Battle Mastery, that may help further my plan. The latter two are recurrable via Sun Titan as well. However, if I add more enchantments to the deck, I would need to find a balance of creatures and spells/equipment to buff them. I'm sure there's not a magical number, but if you know of a ratio that works for you please let me know, or if even adding more enchantments to the deck would be worth it.
Of course, strict upgrades to some cards (aside from lands) would help further any gameplan along, so those comments are appreicated as well. If you see something that could use a boost, say something.
Thank you for taking a look at my list. I know there are a lot of Ephara decks up at the moment, but I'd really appreciate help getting this one in peak performance.
I've used it in a Talrand, Sky Summoner and Sydri, Galvanic Genius deck, and now in my Ephara, God of the Polis beatdown build, and I love the versatility this card brings to nearly any deck that plays U. For my own purposes, the Architect by itself allows me to throw down either Swiftfoot Boots or Lightning Greaves for free, pumps up Ephara to the magical number 7 while also helping enable devotion, and allows all of my utility dorks to act as pseduo mana rocks for all of my artifact and their activation costs.
From what I can see in other decks, the previously mentioned Talrand, Sky Summoner builds can look at this card to make drakes bigger or turn them into free mana for artifacts. After those decks, I can't really see the +1/+1 to blue creatures really making a difference in most decks. The second ability goes infinite with Pili-Pala, but after that I don't see it doing that much work. The final ability, imo, is what makes this card great. Being able to tap any blue creature you control, including itself, to create mana to cast artifacts and use their abilities gives blue players a way to ramp into things like Wurmcoil Engine and Blightsteel Colossus for creatures or Akroma's Memorial to end games.
What are your thoughts on this Vedalken Artificer? Have you had success with this card, or are there better options for what it does/wants to do?
I love this deck idea and have been in the process for a couple weeks now putting my own together, it is coming out very different minus the deathtouch enablers which is just killer with the general. I am running as many tramplers as possible as well. I feel like the Lure effect isn't worth investing to much, maybe just my meta, but I see the value in it and am running a couple of pieces that force blocks.
I think the cards most worth running are cards that are resilient in their own way. This is mono green after all and in a control heavy meta things can get ugly. Here are a few pieces I am running for this reason...
I'm glad you've taken an interest in this deckstyle! It's strange, I feel that after playing this deck more and more, a lot of keywords on cards that woud otherwise be considered bad can find their place in off the wall deck ideas (not that this deck is an unvisited mesh of abilities, DT and Trample have been a potent combination from the start). I would love to see your deck and maybe even steal some of your ideas and throw them in here. I'm surprised to see that I'm the only Polukranos deck listed on the database...I could have sworn that there were more. Anyway, onto your suggestions:
Gaea's Embrace - Pretty costy just for regeneration, but the trample and P/T boost looks decent for 4 mana. I'd almost rather play Thrun, the Last Troll or Troll Ascetic with a trample enabler, though. Hexproof is quite potent, and green is spoiled with Asceticism and the "should probably be tested in this deck at some point" Archetype of Endurance.
Colossus of Akros and Darksteel Colossus, Thornling, Silvos, Rogue Elemental - I've thought about adding the first three, and Akros was in the deck at some point. It's a very fun card, especially in this deck with the mana doublers we have. However it had a bad habit of getting stolen and thrown in my face, and without a copy of Homeward Path, I decided to remove it. The same would go for the Darksteel. I believe Thornling is still in the "currently pondering" list on the front, and I like it's unique spread of abilities. It almost makes me want to abuse it with Necrotic Ooze in a different deck. Great suggestion and I'm still thinking of testing it out, just don't know what to take out for it. Silvos is interesting, however again I'd rather have Thrun because he's cheaper, and with enough trample enablers in the deck it would work just as well. Silvos is a powerhouse though, I'd love to build a deck around him someday.
Gravity Well - I love this card, I really do. If my meta was heavy with flyers (my meta is very happy go lucky and face smashy, it's not young we've just never wanted to move in a different direction), I would undoubtedly give this a try. If it works well for you, please let me know! I don't think I'd use Downdraft, but Frog Tongue might be interesting in my Anthousa deck...
As for card draw, which I am definitely a fan of: Regal Force - In a green deck that has the potential to produce a lot of creatures or token creatures quickly and reliably, I would consider this an auto include. Even though I have 30+ creatures in the deck, I don't know if I would include Regal Force here. If possible, I prefer my card draw options to be mid to low CMC, like Harmonize, or give freebies throughout the game, like Soul of the Harvest. I can see the benefits of playing Regal in place of Soul, because Regal is a fire and forget with the potential for burst draw, while Soul requires higher action and a fast playstyle to get the most out of it's ability. However, having inherent trample puts Soul over the edge for me. If I had more repeatable bouncers or blinkers like my original rendition of this deck, this would have gone in for it's ETB.
Hunter's Insight - However this card is, imo, very under appreciated in this format because there's the chance of spot removal during the targeting. That aside, this card has the potential to draw you a lot of cards on the cheap at instant speed. I like this card and I may have to find room for a copy, it pulls it's weight in my Anthousa deck (which I should probably stop mentioning)
I'll admit, I have not thought about the interation between Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Polukranos, being able to snipe lands while giving a board boost with trample if needed. It's not something I would do, however with the way the deck is designed right now it would perfectly accomodate this little combo due to it's high mana cost and the amount of mana doublers in the deck. I can't remember if Kamahl was ever in the deck originally, but I think I may have to test him out. A wonderful and insightful suggestion, thank you.
Giant Adephage and Living Hive - Both good cards on their own, and even better with deathtouch. Both are good in token based decks, but I'm not sure if they would have a place here. Actually, I lied. Living Hive would be better with more mass pump and cards like Regal Force and Kamahl, but I think I would prefer Giant Adephage here. The larger tokens fight better and leave blockers after combat, and also have trample. If I ever remove Myojin of Life's Web for a card, I'd highly consider the insect. In a Polukranos build that would utilize things like Doubling SeasonPrimal Vigor for a larger +1/+1 counter and token count, both of these bugs would shine here and rightfully deserve a place next to their Hydra friends.
Again thank you for commenting, sorry for the late reply. My life has been very busy and I appreciate your patience. Being completely honest, I've been thinking about switching the general to Nylea, God of the Hunt to have Trample on demand, which would greatly help this strategy. However, I seem to be the only Polukranos deck listed in the database, and rereading some of the feedback I've received from the deck, I think the Hydra will stick in the command zone. Wex, I would love to see your list and provide ample feedback when you have it posted. To any of the other readers, I'm considering adding a different category in the OP that would include alternative builds with Polukranos, like Mono G Hydra Tribal or an emphasis on +1/+1 counters (previously mentioned). If anyone would be interested in reading such a subsection, or has their own ideas on Polukranos, send me a PM or post a comment. I would love to hear some more ideas!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Tymaret is resilient and with a bit of help from things like Death Baron can make for a neat control build in Rakdos colors.
Believe it or not, I'm not biased on picking Grimgrin as your general. Dimir offers some counterspell and mill strategy that you may find useful. He's also cheap to pick up, and combos well with a few other cards.
Sedris is pretty great for self mill or reusing your big creatures,but imo he better serves as a way to cheat big creatures into play. That doesn't mean you can't find some cool zombie interactions in grixis though. Don't forget about Thraximundar!
Hero's Downfall is a good suggestion. I always find that, when I build decks, that I include ways to rid creatures with other creatures, but I always find myself asking for help from the table after a board wipe. Adding more straight kill spells and one that also targets planeswalkers is a very worthy inclusion. Since you've mentioned it before and it shares the same CMC, it will come in for Unhallowed Pact.
Black Sun's Zenith I know I have a copy of this somewhere, so when I find it I will swap it out for Mutilate. You make an excellent point with the lack of swamps and having to rely on Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth.
Phthisis This was in the deck as another kill spell but to also hose my friend who plays Trostani Lifegain with Serra Avatar. I figure that I can probably swap it with a better spell, but your other comment about not having a way to deal with enchantments or artifacts once they hit the field. So, since it also has the same CMC, I am swapping it with Spine of Ish Sah. It answers any permanent and is self recurring. To get the most out of it I'll need a way to repeated put it in the graveyard. Since sacrificing is a theme in the deck, Trading Post can come in for Wight of Precinct Six because currently it's not helping me. It sacs artifacts and creatures, and recurs artifacts and makes a Goat token. After all, sacrificial goats are the best kind of offering.
Dark Prophecy is a card that I really enjoy playing with, despite the dangerous downsides. The only part I don't like about it is the fact that it costs triple B to play. I've considered tossing in Phyrexian Arena before, but it's so damn abundant that I'm just sick of seeing it. I have been thinking of adding Mystic Remora because it only costs 1 U and will draw way more cards than I spent to cast it. The other options are Greed, Erebos, God of the Dead, Necropotence, and Rhystic Study. Greed can get costly after a while, but it is controlled draw which is attractive. Erebos does it better by being indestructible and preventing life gain which is useful in my meta. However, there's a new Erebos deck in the meta so I'm not sure if I want to double dip. Necropotence has the same problem as Dark Prophecy by costing triple B, and it shuts off other draw, so I don't think it would be useful here. I've never used it so I can't be for certain. Rhystic Study is another option, a card which I have multiple copies of. Saying "Rhystic Trigger" multiple times a turn can get quite repetitive, and later in the game people won't mind paying the extra 1.
Sever the Bloodline can definitely come in for Go for the Throat, I'll pick up a copy somewhere on the cheap.
Unfortunately since I would like to renaimate some of my opponents' creatures anything with tuck won't help me , even if it means never tucking opposing generals. There is Soul Manipulation as you've mentioned which I still have a copy of lying around. This can come in for Crypsis. I do like the idea of Dissipate to remove problem enchantments and artifacts from the game, but I'm torn between it and because the minor draw fixing looks appealing and I can always reanimate opposing artifacts with Geth, Lord of the Vault. I could just as well add SDT or Crystal Ball, but unless I'm working with a top deck manipulation theme I really don't see a need for them. Thoughts?
With all decks that are built around their chosen general, it is of utmost importance to fully understand each aspect that the face of your deck will bring to the table. This includes who your general is, what your general is to your strategy, and how vital they will be for the deck's success.
Starting from the beginning, The first card your opponents will see is the man in black (and blue). Grimgrin flies the Dimir colors, which should signal to your opponents that you may be up to some graveyard shenanigans, counterspells, creature destruction and sacrifice. I know in my own playgroup, the majority of players dislike Blue and immediately paint a target on my head, but your meta may vary. Grimgrin is a 5/5 Zombie Warrior with a CMC of 5. Having the creature type zombie and being in the Dimir colors opens up a ton of options for a zombie tribal build, so cards that support the zombie subtype will be welcome additions to the deck. The warrior subtype doesn't offer too much support in these colors, though there are special cases such as in the form of Obsidian Battle-Axe. From a Vorthosian perspectivem, it just means that Grimgrin is ready and able to duke it out on the battlefield. At a converted mana cost of 5 Grimgrin is able to come down during the end of the developmental stages of the game (early game). Utility creatures are abound, mana bases are making their way to optimal levels, and there hopefully aren't too many threats on the table yet. Because of this, people may be holding up removal, so it may be unsafe to drop the big guy on turn 5 without adequete protection. It's also worth mentioning that Grimgrin is only 2 power away from being a 3 hit kill, and given his abilities, which will be discussed below, makes him a respectable beater for his cost.
Abilities are what defines generals, and are usually the main reasons why they are selected in the first place. Grimgrin is no different for this build. The first ability reads: Grimgrin, Corpse-Born enters the battlefield tapped. This means that wherever Grimgrin enters the battlefield from, whether it's from the Graveyard, Library, Hand, Command Zone, Exile, or Blink, he will always enter sideways. This is a downside to Grimgrin, however there are ways around it. There are a plethora of untap effects out there such as Fatestitcher and Thousand-Year Elixir that can untap him with ease. However Grimgrin comes with a built in way to resolve this problem. His second ability reads: Sacrifice another creature: Untap Grimgrin and put a +1/+1 Counter on it. With enough things to eat, untapping Grimgrin shouldn't be a problem. In fact, this is a wonderful ability to have as it gives you vigilance provided you have enough snacks to satiate his hunger, and Grimgrin gets bigger every time you sac a creature with the ability. Token creators like Ophiomancer and Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder provide plenty of tokens for Grimgrin to eat. Creature tokens and creatures that are easy to recur or provide some benefit upon death are preferred. Grimgrin's last ability reads: Whenever Grimgrin attacks, sacrifice target creature defending player controls, then put a +1/+1 counter on Grimgrin. This means that upon the declaration of attack, Grimgrin acts as a kill spell while also beefing himself up, provided that there is a targetable opposing creature. Doing some simple math here, untapping Grimgrin with a creature, and then eating an opposing creature brings Grimgrin's power to the magical number 7.
What makes Grimgrin such a respectable choice for a general is the variety of directions you can take the deck, should you choose to build around him. Zombie Tribal, Mill, Combo, and Voltron are all viable paths to take when Grimgrin is in the hotseat. With all of that being said, I find I get the most out of him by using his second ability, killing off your own creatures to do various things throughout the game. It's very easy to go infinite with a few cards and make Grimgrin a 1 hit killing machine, but it's also not that hard to do it without going infinite (it also feels more rewarding for me when I have to work for it).
As stated above, there are a few cards to get around the ETB Tapped clause without resorting to sacrificing creature, but in my opinion you absolutely want to use the second ability as much as possible to get the most out of Grimgrin. That doesn't mean we can't include a few ways to cheat in an uptap effect or two, though. With that, we'll look at some key creatures that will help keep Grimgrin up and running.
Creatures that are self recurring or cards that produce tokens are excellent partners for Grimgrin to get him started.
Gravecrawler, Reassembling Skeleton, Ogre Slumlord, Undead Alchemist, Endrek Sahr, Master Breeder, Ophiomancer, Grave Titan, Druidic Satchel, Lich Lord of Unx, Tombstone Stairwell, Endless Ranks of the Dead.
Gravecrawler is Grimgrin's best friend. Sacrifice him to Grimgrin's 2nd ability, pay B to bring him back to the battlefield. Simple, yet effective. Reassembling Skeleton does the same for 1B, but does not require a zombie to be on the battlefield, and can be activated at instant speed if you need an untap immediately. Ogre Slumlord does some fine work in this deck. Everytime Grimgrin eats an opposing non token creature, you get a free 1/1 rat with deathtouch that you can either use as a blocker or to untap Grimgrin. Undead Alchemist turns your gameplan on it's head by making all of your combat damage to players from Zombies into mill. It's second ability means that whenever any creature enters the graveyard from the library, that creature is exiled and you get a 2/2 zombie token. This can quickly get out of control if unanswered, as not even Eldrazi or Colossus can stop you. Endrek Sahr's greatness comes from the fact that it can produce multiple token creatures per creature cast. The seven or more drawback on this card is mitigated from Grimgrin's second ability. We can sacrifice all of the thrulls away without ever getting to seven. Ophiomancer pops out one deathtouch token on every upkeep. While being a decent blocker. It also gives a way to untap Grimgrin and pump him up on every single turn! With more players comes more snakes and a bigger general as a result. Grave Titan makes an appearance in this deck because it puts 2 tokens into play upon entering the battlefield, and two more on every attack thereafter. Better yet, they are zombie tokens so they can take advantage of the tribal support cards in the deck. Manbag (satchel) may not always produce a token, but it also has a chance of helping us ramp or gaining 2 life on each activation. Lich Lord of Unx puts in one zombie wizard token and also has the potential to mill an opponent for a decent amount in addition to doing damage! Tombstone Stairwell gives a substantial amount of tokens with a fully stocked graveyard, while also giving each opponent the same benefit on each upkeep. However, those tokens are destroyed at end of turn, so using all of the tokens on each turn can generate some serious advantage. Endless Ranks of the Dead requires a bit of a board presence, but when it gets going there will be enough zombies to either overrun your opponent or create game changing sacrifice fodder.
Since the best way of untapping Grimgrin is through sacrificing creatures, we can take advantage of this by adding a few cards to profit even more off of it.
Grave Pact, Dictate of Erebos, Blade of the Bloodchief, Dark Prophecy, Skullclamp, Tragic Slip
Grave Pact and Dictate of Erebos are two powerhouse enchantments that forces each opponent to sacrifice one creature per creature lost on our end. So, every time we sacrifice one creature, so must everyone else. Blade of the Bloodchief grants extra counters when one of our creatures kicks the bucket, and performs double duty on Vampire creatures. Dark Prophecy allows us to draw cards off of each creature that dies. This can get dangerous if you have a large board presence and someone drops a board wipe, but that's a small price to pay when you're busy drawing gas. Speaking of drawing gas, Skullclamp is in here to draw to cards off of the equipped creature. Snake Tokens, Reassembling Skeleton, Rat, and Thrull tokens make excellent use of this card. Tragic Slip is one of the best spot removal spells in the deck when Morbid is activated. More often than not, you're giving target creature -13/-13 for B at instant speed.
Additional sacrifice outlets will add more synergy to the deck as a whole for when Grimgrin is not around.
Viscera Seer, Carrion Feeder, Altar of Dementia, Mortarpod
Viscera Seer helps smooth out draws when sacrificing creatures. It's also an excellent target for Blade of the Bloodchief. Carrion Feeder is a miniature version of Grimgrin, gaining a +1/+1 counter for each creature it eats, all for one mana! Altar of Dementia adds a mill subtheme to the deck, allowing each creature to turn enemy libraries upside down. Mortarpod may seem like the odd man out in this deck, but with things like Ophiomancer and Ogre Slumlord, those tokens become killspells for 2! The often overlooked part of the card is that it brings it's own token into play, which can be used for various things.
Focusing on Grimgrin's third ability, I've added a few cards that can generate even more advantage when he successfully kills a creature.
Unhallowed Pact, Fool's Demise, Grim Return
Unhallowed Pact can steal an opposing creature that Grimgrin eats. An argument can be made saying that if I can't enchant it then I can't steal it. This is true, but it also means that it can't be targeted by Grimgrin's ability in the first place. Fool's Demise is similar in nature, but for a bit more mana you can use the effect again and again. Grim Return is the instant version of Unhallowed Pact, and is great when you can catch someone off guard with it.
Adding more mill to the deck will help create a small subtheme to give us an extra win condition.
Dimir Charm, Sword of Body and Mind, Phenax, God of Deception, Geth, Lord of the Vault
Dimir Charm counters opposing game ending sorcery spells like Insurrection and Rise of the Dark Realms, kills a utility creature, and messes with the top three cards of any player's library. It does all that Dimir usually does and it does this very well for only UB. Sword of Body and Mind offers protection from Simic, creates a token for sacrificing, and mills the top 10 cards upon contact. Phenax, God of Deception turns all of our creatures into milling machines. Geth, Lord of the Vault simultaneously steals opposing creatures and artifacts while milling the opponent for the cards CMC.
The deck will cause each player's graveyard to be full at most points of the game, so some graveyard control and shenanigans will be welcome additions.
Nihil Spellbomb, Nezumi Graverobber, Withered Wretch, Coffin Queen, Necromancy, Fated Return, Havengul Lich, All Hallow's Eve, Wight of Precinct Six, Necrotic Ooze
Nihil Spellbomb nukes someone's graveyard upon tap, and draws us a card for B. In decks that play black, I prefer this over Tormod's Crypt just because of the extra card draw. Nezumi Graverobber gets rid of a single card in a graveyard. When it flips, it turns into a Rise from the Grave on a stick. Withered Wretch removes one card for 1 generic mana. Coffin Queen reanimates a creature and then exiles it if the queen dies or is untapped. So when something better comes along, untap it and take it! Necromancy reanimates a creature as an enchantment, but can be used at instant speed in case of emergency. Another instant, Fated Return, can also reanimate a creature. It may cost 4BBB, but it makes gives the creature indestructible so it sticks around longer. It also fixes our library a bit if it's used on our turn. Havengul Lich can grab any creature in a graveyard provided you have the colored mana to cast it. Lich is mostly useful for our deck, but grabbing enemy Solemn Simulacrum and other useful artifact creatures can swing the game in our favor. All Hallow's Eve brings all of the creatures in all graveyards to the battlefield. If it's not countered, you have two turns to mess with opposing graveyards before the effect goes off. This gives you time to make this a one sided effect. Wight of Precinct Six is a cheap beater that gets larger as the game goes on. Necrotic Ooze is able to use any activated ability of a creature in a graveyard for itself. This means it can be a Nezumi Graverobber, a Coffin Queen, or even a Burnished Hart if there's one around.
Zombies tribal support will give Grimgrin and other cards more oomph.
Death Baron, Undead Warchief, Graveborn Muse, Vengeful Dead, Zombie Apocalypse, Army of the Damned
Death Baron gives all of our zombies and skeletons deathtouch and a P/T boost. The deathtouch is the most important part, as it makes opponents weary of attacking or blocking zombies, and it turns our zombie tokens into kill spells with Mortarpod. Undead Warchief makes our zombie spells cheaper and gives a sizable P/T boost. Graveborn Muse has the potential to draw a bunch of cards decent board presence. At worst, it draws an extra card per turn by itself. Vengeful Dead causes each opponent to lose 1 life when any zombie dies. This turns Tombstone Stairwell into a game ending threat. Zombie Apocalypse brings back all of the deck's zombies for a second round of undead mayhem. Army of the Damned puts down 26 power on the board without support, and a ton of sacrifice fodder.
Throwing in a some ramp, kill spells, boardwipes, ways to protect Grimgrin, and otherwise useful spells and that's it, deck is made.
Expedition Map, Darksteel Ingot, Coalition Relic, Burnished Hart, Solemn Simulacrum, Go for the Throat, Mutilate, Skinrender, Life's Finale, Phthisis, Crypsis, Lightning Greaves, Sword of Vengeance, Filth, Fact or Fiction, Rite of Replication, Living Death, Sheoldred, Whispering One
It was a lot of fun and very insightful to rework the deck, cracking down on what really works for me and Grimgrin and takng out what doesn't. I'd love some feedback or suggestions as to what can be added to further push the deck along. At this moment, three things come to mind:
Zombie Master could be swapped in for Filth. Filth was put in because it can be easily sacced to Grimgrin and it gives the whole team swamp walk, not just zombies. However, Zombie Master is cheaper and allows Grimgrin and other Zombies to regenerate. If I find myself attacking with Zombies more than other types of creatures, I may make this change.
Trinket Mage may have a place in here. There's a few CMC 1 artifacts that are important to the strategy and other useful ones, so it won't be bad late game either. At worst, it can be sacced for profit. If it does end up in the deck later on, I may have to readd Sol Ring.
Blood Artist also may have a place in here. I don't own a copy, but becuase I don't plan on going infinite I don't know how well it would fare in the deck. If anyone has good results with this card, please let me know.
Another suggestion would be Evil Twin. You have plenty of ways to kill off opposing creatures, so paying 6 for a copy and a kill spell isn't as good when you could be playing other spells like Mikey or Grave Titan.
I would either cut Bloodgift Demon, Evil Twin, or Diabolic Tutor. It looks like you already have enough card draw to cut the demon, and if you wanted more you could always include Graveborn Muse instead. Diabolic Tutor is outclassed by the many other tutors available to you, so if you're looking for an alternate win condition instead of more of the same, try swapping that out for Phenax. Evil Twin is nice for being able to kill off opposing creatures, but Grimgrin does that for you, and you have quite a few exile options at your disposal as well. And yes, having lots of small creatures with both Phenax and Grimgrin out is very satisfying. Phenax also powers up your Sepulchral Primordial and Nezumi Graverobber.
For the underlined, you could make the same argument for Steel Hellkite. Geth does not require haste for it to work, but it does require additional mana. As part of the 99, Geth is better suited towards mid to late game play, when graveyards are larger and/or haven't been purged yet. Hellkite requires haste and player contact for it's ability to work. However, it doesn't care about colored mana, is highly effective against token strategies, and destroys enchantments, which Dimir sometimes has trouble dealing with.
Geth may be more goodstuff, but that shouldn't deter you from using him. Consider the following example, which isn't too "Magical Christmas Land":
Geth, Lord of the Vault is in play. You have two opponents, one with a Solemn Simulacrum, another with Burnished Hart, both in the graveyard. Geth can steal any one of those creatures and use their abilities to either ramp you or draw you cards. These effects can happen again and again with the help of Grimgrin. The first opponent gives Geth the following, B4: Get a 2/2 artifact and put a tapped basic land into play, that opponent mills 4. With Grimgrin, this now reads, B4: Get a 2/2 artifact and put a tapped basic land into play, that opponent mills 4. (Sacrifice the 2/2) Untap Grimgrin and put a +1/+1 Counter on it, draw a card.
This gives you a ton of card advantage and some interaction with your opponents as well. Hellkite also gives you interaction while solving a problem permanent, which is also very nice. I prefer to play Geth, but to each their own.
As for your swap of the Elixir with the Plate, I agree that it's a good change. I recently changed my Grimgrin build (which I have yet to update) and Thousand Year Elixir just isn't as useful with more support for the big guy. I still keep it in for things like Phenax, God of Deception, but it seems to have lost it's usefulness. Let me know how games go without it, I'd love to hear your results.
Thanks for the reply Hallucigenia, I appreciate it very much.
You're right, I should probably be running resonator, and maybe throw in Fabricate to tutor it up.
Precinct Captain I like that it adds to Ephara's devotion early in the game, and that it also triggers upon contact. Looks excellent.
Sharding Sphinx Doesn't add as much devotion, but it's the same idea and I happen to have a copy from the precon. I'll find room for this.
Undead Alchemist I'm not to keen on adding this guy, although it is one of my favorite cards in my Grimgrin build. I don't feel like he would add enough to the plan. The chance for a free creature is nice and it can add up quickly, but milling instead of damage wouldn't really fit the theme for me.
Brago, King Eternal Useless with double strike unless I'm missing something, but it would fit the theme. I think there's a flying kithkin card, the name escapes me, that does this upon attack as well. Both should be considered here, thank you.
Sphinx Ambassador More like sphinx badassador in this deck! It's got a large cmc, but with all of the counter magic I have it should stick around and bring the pain (and some extra goodies) to the board.
Isperia the Inscrutable adds to the devotion plan big time! I may have to add a few more flier and maybe create a little toolbox for her to play with, but this is a solid inclusion.
Hundred-Handed One This was put in the deck due to a lack of good white beaters/defenders that I had available/thought of. The idea of it holding Godsend was cute, but never went off. It's actually been replaced with Medomai, so I'll have to make that update soon.
Grand Architect With a bit more deck tweaking, this card is going to be an all star. It already helps with setting up devotion, turns Ephara up to the magical number 7 for the 3 turn commander damage clock, and helps with activating equipment and casting artifacts with flash. You know...Strionic Resonator would greatly appreciate having the Architect around. I like the card, for now, but I think adding a few mana rocks might also help push the deck in a safer/stronger route while also making the architect more versatile.
Ascended Lawmage Added due to the devotion pump, being hexproof, and having natural evasion. It seemed like a solid inclusion at the time, being a great target for the pump spells and the like, but I suppose I could replace it for another creature that actually does something on contact, like a ninja.
Plumeveil I like the wall of birds due to it having flash, but it's also an outstanding devotion enabler at it's cmc. It can't beat, but having it stick around and defend has proved to be useful, and has even caught a few friends off guard a couple of times. Is there something else at this CMC that would help with devotion and is maybe able to beat?
Vedalken Orrery I didn't even know this was reprinted, so perhaps I can pick up a copy for cheap? Also a potential fabricate target, should I choose to include it.
And for the obvious derp,
Stolen Identity is indeed a sorcery, the cipher must have confused me when writing this up. Thanks for the catch.
My next post should be the updates and fixes on the cards, and hopefully more games played with the deck to see where else I can improve on this strategy.
Some questions I have for your deck:
You have 24 creatures (including the general) and 17 equipment/enchantments to pump up your creatures. Do you feel like this is a good body-to-pump spell ratio for the deck?
How have Battle Mastery and Steel of the Godhead worked for you as creature pump spells? Both are recurrable via Sun Titan and help further the game plan along by giving you a potential two extra turns with Medomai and making it unblockable.
What do you think of Bident of Thassa or Coastal Piracy in a deck like this? With double strike enablers and cards like Lu Xun, Scholar General, you could be nabbing 4 cards a creature per combat phase.
4 Ephara, God of the Polis
Creatures
2 Stoneforge Mystic
2 Wall of Omens
2 Walking Atlas
2 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Myr Retriever
2 Etherium Sculptor
3 Silverblade Paladin
3 Junk Diver
3 Augury Adept
3 Pilgrim's Eye
3 Plumeveil
3 Burnished Hart
3 Shimmer Myr
3 Grand Architect
3 Cephalid Constable
4 Hundred-Handed One
4 Saltskitter
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Emeria Angel
4 Kor Cartographer
4 Ascended Lawmage
5 Mnemonic Wall
6 Sun Titan
7 Drogskol Reaver
7 Tromokratis
7 Myr Battlesphere
0 Tormod's Crypt
1 Expedition Map
2 Swiftfoot Boots
3 Sculpting Steel
3 Sword of Vengeance
3 Druidic Satchel
3 Godsend
3 Fireshrieker
3 Loxodon Warhammer
3 Darksteel Plate
3 Mimic Vat
4 Trading Post
4 Bonehoard
Enchantments
2 Angelic Renewal
3 Ephara's Enlightenment
3 Prison Term
4 Leyline of Anticipation
6 True Conviction
Instants
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Turn Aside
1 Dispatch
3 Thirst for Knowledge
3 Hinder
3 Oblation
3 Render Silent
3 Ghostway
3 Dissipate
3 Crib Swap
3 Spell Crumple
4 Vanish into Memory
4 Return to Dust
7 Fated Retribution
6 Austere Command
6 Stolen Identity
Lands
0 Glacial Fortress
0 Opal Palace
0 Ancient Den
0 Buried Ruin
0 Reliquary Tower
0 Hallowed Fountain
0 Seat of the Synod
0 Command Tower
0 Esper Panorama
0 Evolving Wilds
0 Lonely Sandbar
0 Springjack Pasture
0 Bant Panorama
0 Temple of Enlightenment
0 Halimar Depths
0 Terramorphic Expanse
0 Academy Ruins
0 Mooreland Haunt
0 Phyrexia's Core
0 Temple of the False God
0 Azorius Chancery
This deck is still in it's early development stage, so there are probably a few key pieces that I could add, any help in finding them would be greatly appreciated. As it stands now, the deck heavily supports Sun Titan, allowing him to pick up the majority of helpful permanents that can move the game plan along. With that, there are more than a few "poor man's fetchlands" to keep Emeria Angel triggering through multiple people in a round, thus gaining benefit from Ephara. Some questions I have for other people who have had experiences with this deck type (rafiq players, perhaps?):
Daxos of Meletis is a card I am considering playing in the deck. However, I play little to no mana rocks so I don't know if the addition of this beater would warrant a slight change in the deck build. It would increase my resilience against Armageddon type cards by having a few mana pieces left standing. However, if I spend some of that mana on my turn to cast the opponent's spells, I may not have enough mana left up for my counter magic. Would the addition of Daxos help or hinder my current list? I would like to keep the counter magic suite I have while also beating down on my opponents. I am also looking for other creatures with neat combat damage triggers that would help fit the theme of the deck.
Looking at other Cipher cards, I found Voidwalk. This also got me thinking, would adding other enchantments be worth a couple of cuts? Adding Voidwalk would help trigger Ephara's ability while also resetting other ETB triggers. There's also things like Eldrazi Conscription, Steel of the Godhead, and Battle Mastery, that may help further my plan. The latter two are recurrable via Sun Titan as well. However, if I add more enchantments to the deck, I would need to find a balance of creatures and spells/equipment to buff them. I'm sure there's not a magical number, but if you know of a ratio that works for you please let me know, or if even adding more enchantments to the deck would be worth it.
What the about the addition of "hand size matters" cards, like Righteous Authority and Empyrial Plate? I could see something like Diviner Spirit equipped with one of those cards or even a Diviner's Wand or a fielded Psychosis Crawler ending games outright.
Of course, strict upgrades to some cards (aside from lands) would help further any gameplan along, so those comments are appreicated as well. If you see something that could use a boost, say something.
Thank you for taking a look at my list. I know there are a lot of Ephara decks up at the moment, but I'd really appreciate help getting this one in peak performance.
I've used it in a Talrand, Sky Summoner and Sydri, Galvanic Genius deck, and now in my Ephara, God of the Polis beatdown build, and I love the versatility this card brings to nearly any deck that plays U. For my own purposes, the Architect by itself allows me to throw down either Swiftfoot Boots or Lightning Greaves for free, pumps up Ephara to the magical number 7 while also helping enable devotion, and allows all of my utility dorks to act as pseduo mana rocks for all of my artifact and their activation costs.
From what I can see in other decks, the previously mentioned Talrand, Sky Summoner builds can look at this card to make drakes bigger or turn them into free mana for artifacts. After those decks, I can't really see the +1/+1 to blue creatures really making a difference in most decks. The second ability goes infinite with Pili-Pala, but after that I don't see it doing that much work. The final ability, imo, is what makes this card great. Being able to tap any blue creature you control, including itself, to create mana to cast artifacts and use their abilities gives blue players a way to ramp into things like Wurmcoil Engine and Blightsteel Colossus for creatures or Akroma's Memorial to end games.
What are your thoughts on this Vedalken Artificer? Have you had success with this card, or are there better options for what it does/wants to do?
Hello Wex, thanks for stopping by.
I'm glad you've taken an interest in this deckstyle! It's strange, I feel that after playing this deck more and more, a lot of keywords on cards that woud otherwise be considered bad can find their place in off the wall deck ideas (not that this deck is an unvisited mesh of abilities, DT and Trample have been a potent combination from the start). I would love to see your deck and maybe even steal some of your ideas and throw them in here. I'm surprised to see that I'm the only Polukranos deck listed on the database...I could have sworn that there were more. Anyway, onto your suggestions:
Gaea's Embrace - Pretty costy just for regeneration, but the trample and P/T boost looks decent for 4 mana. I'd almost rather play Thrun, the Last Troll or Troll Ascetic with a trample enabler, though. Hexproof is quite potent, and green is spoiled with Asceticism and the "should probably be tested in this deck at some point" Archetype of Endurance.
Colossus of Akros and Darksteel Colossus, Thornling, Silvos, Rogue Elemental - I've thought about adding the first three, and Akros was in the deck at some point. It's a very fun card, especially in this deck with the mana doublers we have. However it had a bad habit of getting stolen and thrown in my face, and without a copy of Homeward Path, I decided to remove it. The same would go for the Darksteel. I believe Thornling is still in the "currently pondering" list on the front, and I like it's unique spread of abilities. It almost makes me want to abuse it with Necrotic Ooze in a different deck. Great suggestion and I'm still thinking of testing it out, just don't know what to take out for it. Silvos is interesting, however again I'd rather have Thrun because he's cheaper, and with enough trample enablers in the deck it would work just as well. Silvos is a powerhouse though, I'd love to build a deck around him someday.
Gravity Well - I love this card, I really do. If my meta was heavy with flyers (my meta is very happy go lucky and face smashy, it's not young we've just never wanted to move in a different direction), I would undoubtedly give this a try. If it works well for you, please let me know! I don't think I'd use Downdraft, but Frog Tongue might be interesting in my Anthousa deck...
As for card draw, which I am definitely a fan of: Regal Force - In a green deck that has the potential to produce a lot of creatures or token creatures quickly and reliably, I would consider this an auto include. Even though I have 30+ creatures in the deck, I don't know if I would include Regal Force here. If possible, I prefer my card draw options to be mid to low CMC, like Harmonize, or give freebies throughout the game, like Soul of the Harvest. I can see the benefits of playing Regal in place of Soul, because Regal is a fire and forget with the potential for burst draw, while Soul requires higher action and a fast playstyle to get the most out of it's ability. However, having inherent trample puts Soul over the edge for me. If I had more repeatable bouncers or blinkers like my original rendition of this deck, this would have gone in for it's ETB.
Hunter's Insight - However this card is, imo, very under appreciated in this format because there's the chance of spot removal during the targeting. That aside, this card has the potential to draw you a lot of cards on the cheap at instant speed. I like this card and I may have to find room for a copy, it pulls it's weight in my Anthousa deck (which I should probably stop mentioning)
I'll admit, I have not thought about the interation between Kamahl, Fist of Krosa and Polukranos, being able to snipe lands while giving a board boost with trample if needed. It's not something I would do, however with the way the deck is designed right now it would perfectly accomodate this little combo due to it's high mana cost and the amount of mana doublers in the deck. I can't remember if Kamahl was ever in the deck originally, but I think I may have to test him out. A wonderful and insightful suggestion, thank you.
Giant Adephage and Living Hive - Both good cards on their own, and even better with deathtouch. Both are good in token based decks, but I'm not sure if they would have a place here. Actually, I lied. Living Hive would be better with more mass pump and cards like Regal Force and Kamahl, but I think I would prefer Giant Adephage here. The larger tokens fight better and leave blockers after combat, and also have trample. If I ever remove Myojin of Life's Web for a card, I'd highly consider the insect. In a Polukranos build that would utilize things like Doubling Season Primal Vigor for a larger +1/+1 counter and token count, both of these bugs would shine here and rightfully deserve a place next to their Hydra friends.
Again thank you for commenting, sorry for the late reply. My life has been very busy and I appreciate your patience. Being completely honest, I've been thinking about switching the general to Nylea, God of the Hunt to have Trample on demand, which would greatly help this strategy. However, I seem to be the only Polukranos deck listed in the database, and rereading some of the feedback I've received from the deck, I think the Hydra will stick in the command zone. Wex, I would love to see your list and provide ample feedback when you have it posted. To any of the other readers, I'm considering adding a different category in the OP that would include alternative builds with Polukranos, like Mono G Hydra Tribal or an emphasis on +1/+1 counters (previously mentioned). If anyone would be interested in reading such a subsection, or has their own ideas on Polukranos, send me a PM or post a comment. I would love to hear some more ideas!