It's wholly dependent on the situation you're in. I mean, if the deck you're playing against has few artifact answers, an early shrine can be game. But if you're holding the pieces for a very aggressive start (Noble, 'serker, Chandras or Volt Charge) getting Stormblood out early could give you the edge. Have to take a situational approach.
Koth for me has been a game winner in games 2 and 3. Turn 4 Koth. Block with anything and everything if he's targeted. Turn 5 Volt Charge; proliferate him. Pop his ultimate. Then I can start playing more of a control style, and my opponent has no idea if I'll pop for unblockable damage, run burn spells, etc. I'm almost tempted to try to maindeck him again.
I like Koth too, but only when playing against slower decks (Infect, the Tokens version of G/W Tokens, control, homebrews). Against aggro decks, I find that I often don't have the resources to support him by the time he comes out. I've been running Koth and Hero of Oxid Ridge as 2 ofs in my sb, because I bring in hero against the aggro match up. His hastiness and battlecry abilities often let me get in for enough to make him worthwhile, and if they're lacking the buff spells, his pseudo evasion works as a bonus.
Gut shot is also something I keep in against WU Humans, as it's not a given that HotP will be out, and I like to have a quick answer for the first turn Champions. It's also useful to activate stormblood on t2 (though if the opponent runs vapor snag, he might be another target for siding out, especially if slag storm comes in.) Another reason I like gut shot is the extra 2 damage it creates on turns when you only have three mana up and a shrine in play. Opponents sometimes don't take that into consideration when they're riding a close game and go all in on you.
But, turn two you could only have the one creature out, or none if they burned/removed it. It's such a narrow card, and I would hate to see it when top decking. It really is an example of a win more card. I mean, I would play shrine or berserker over it in a heartbeat, given they were all in my hand at the same time, which means I'm really only going to play this on turn 3+, or two when I have a lowly 1/1 (possibly 2/2) noble, or something even worse that doesn't have evasion.
The bottom line is that it's not RDW's version of HotP, because the benefit isn't immediate, it's conditional. It is a card that forces us to play our burn as creature removal, too, as we want to get the counters on our creatures. It's an idea that really fits better with a deck built around IT, rather than trying to fit IT into a deck that's already super tight as far as card choice is concerned.
I mean, stromkirk, stormblood, thrummingbird, CoSP, proliferate, burn and counter is a cool idea, and really the type of deck this was meant to be in. But it just isn't suited for the RDW that is doing well in standard.
Might be worthwhile to give the deck tech video that David Caplan did for World's a look through. He gives commentary on which cards generally get subbed out (citing, surprisingly at first, Stormblood Berserker against vapor snag, and Volt Charge...) and what gets subbed in.
After thinking on it a bit, I think he has a point in the volt charges. They are amazing tech in a deck built to run them, but for three damage they are a bit slow at three mana, and I'm sure I'd rather see cards built to win games two and three than ones built to win game one.
It's mindbending to think about getting rid of the cards that seem to give us so much success, but it may work to our advantage, given the larger picture. Otherwise, I like the ideas you're putting forward, and am excited to see what other people are prioritizing.
I've found that taking out 2 koth and 2 land for 3 noble and a spikeshot (basically making maindeck look exactly like caplan's) brings up my win pct against UW without too much more needed. When the meta shifts away from UW (if it does) then I'll have to look to some other answers, but right now, I'm finding this world's build to be just amazing.
2 for 1'ing the early drops isn't really up to you, though. If you attack, they can always just take the one, then not have to worry about your arsonist blocking their beats.
Fireslinger can be held untapped as a blocker without losing tempo, too, because if they decide not to attack, you can just ping at EOT. It's a little bit more versatile., IMO.
And tempered steel, well, you can't really do much about the hawks with arsonist.
It's not that arsonist is bad, it's just fireslinger is more versatile, which breaks the tie in my mind.
Necronguy, you are aware that fireslinger can kill liliana in the same second scenario, correct? Not that I'm arguing with the first use. But against something like a doomed traveller, or viridian emissary, I would rather have the fireslinger, because arsonists damage is moot at that point.
A friend of mine has recently gotten into playing a version of UW humans that relies on something like 15 1 drop creatures and Honor of the Pure. I'm running a deck very similar to Caplan's Worlds' list, but still have trouble due to all the biggish threats he can put out after a T2 Honor.
I've got the Noble's and Elders coming, but are there any other suggestions you all would make to help beat the weenie heavy deck I find myself facing most often?
I was thinking Slagstorm might be a good idea, but I also want to keep the deck viable against other decks as well, and running these maindeck isn't something I want to do.
Is there any other way I can punish a deck full of 1 drops?
Except you can attack with the noble anyway; pilgrim is a human. But killing the mana accelerator IS important.
I'm switching to gut shot also, it's an easy way of getting cards into the gy for lavamancer, and it can swing you up to 3 life to negate timely, or you can do two to yourself and hit one of your own creatures to really negate timely. Or you can use it for bloodthirst... there's just a lot this card does.
Since introducing the Vault Skirge idea, I've been thinking along similar lines. Only thing I don't like about it is the fact that there are fewer red cards to enable the Shrine, which has been my game ender in a lot of cases. So, if you're running this many artifacts, you may want to think of going 3 of on the Shrine, giving you room for something else. But, I'm not sure.
I'm interested in how this build does. Keep us updated.
I've been toying with the idea of running Vault Skirge as a pseudo 1 drop. It has evasion so can fly past most other 1 drops in the format (excepting the god hand of tempered steel). Down side is the life cost, especially in the mirror, you're just doing the opposing player a favor.
Any other thoughts?
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I like Koth too, but only when playing against slower decks (Infect, the Tokens version of G/W Tokens, control, homebrews). Against aggro decks, I find that I often don't have the resources to support him by the time he comes out. I've been running Koth and Hero of Oxid Ridge as 2 ofs in my sb, because I bring in hero against the aggro match up. His hastiness and battlecry abilities often let me get in for enough to make him worthwhile, and if they're lacking the buff spells, his pseudo evasion works as a bonus.
Gut shot is also something I keep in against WU Humans, as it's not a given that HotP will be out, and I like to have a quick answer for the first turn Champions. It's also useful to activate stormblood on t2 (though if the opponent runs vapor snag, he might be another target for siding out, especially if slag storm comes in.) Another reason I like gut shot is the extra 2 damage it creates on turns when you only have three mana up and a shrine in play. Opponents sometimes don't take that into consideration when they're riding a close game and go all in on you.
The bottom line is that it's not RDW's version of HotP, because the benefit isn't immediate, it's conditional. It is a card that forces us to play our burn as creature removal, too, as we want to get the counters on our creatures. It's an idea that really fits better with a deck built around IT, rather than trying to fit IT into a deck that's already super tight as far as card choice is concerned.
I mean, stromkirk, stormblood, thrummingbird, CoSP, proliferate, burn and counter is a cool idea, and really the type of deck this was meant to be in. But it just isn't suited for the RDW that is doing well in standard.
After thinking on it a bit, I think he has a point in the volt charges. They are amazing tech in a deck built to run them, but for three damage they are a bit slow at three mana, and I'm sure I'd rather see cards built to win games two and three than ones built to win game one.
It's mindbending to think about getting rid of the cards that seem to give us so much success, but it may work to our advantage, given the larger picture. Otherwise, I like the ideas you're putting forward, and am excited to see what other people are prioritizing.
Fireslinger can be held untapped as a blocker without losing tempo, too, because if they decide not to attack, you can just ping at EOT. It's a little bit more versatile., IMO.
And tempered steel, well, you can't really do much about the hawks with arsonist.
It's not that arsonist is bad, it's just fireslinger is more versatile, which breaks the tie in my mind.
More specifically my list is Caplan's list with the following changes main deck:
-3 Stromkirk Noble
-1 Spikeshot Elder
+2 Mountain
+2 Koth of the Hammer
I've got the Noble's and Elders coming, but are there any other suggestions you all would make to help beat the weenie heavy deck I find myself facing most often?
I was thinking Slagstorm might be a good idea, but I also want to keep the deck viable against other decks as well, and running these maindeck isn't something I want to do.
Is there any other way I can punish a deck full of 1 drops?
I'm switching to gut shot also, it's an easy way of getting cards into the gy for lavamancer, and it can swing you up to 3 life to negate timely, or you can do two to yourself and hit one of your own creatures to really negate timely. Or you can use it for bloodthirst... there's just a lot this card does.
I'm interested in how this build does. Keep us updated.
Any other thoughts?