Used to run both, in my 540 powered - both shardlands and vivids have been cut.
Shardlands were pretty good, but once the WWK man duals were out, they got the boot pretty quickly.
Vivids lasted longer, and they're fantastic lands -- they weren't cut because they weren't good enough -- they were cut because they were making 5cc entirely too common an occurrence in our cube drafts.
Waiting a turn for the mana is awesome if it's painless 5 color (if you're control).
Not running either, couldn't be happier. If I was going no-proxy or peasant, I'd probably run them.
Initially I would sort the colors/lands/artifact/multi and evenly distribute them in packs -- but I found that this made signaling WAY too easy and as a result people always ended up playing 'their' deck.
That isn't a terrible thing, but I found myself always falling into 5 color control and dominating -- and everyone else would have a little niche that they always tried.
I just shuffle the entire damned thing now and pick 15 at random. Could you get a pack with 15 lands? Sure, but it's pretty unlikely.
IMO it's the way to go. Makes signaling a bit more interesting (sometimes much easier to signal, sometimes harder) -- and you get a nice diverse lineup of decks.
If you want to keep the same decks going, my suggestion is that you guys 'auction draft' initially (a la fantasy football) and bid on the cards.
Each player gets $200 'virtual' dollars to spend -- that's the deck budget.
Every playsession/week you keep a nonbasic in your deck, it's budgeted value goes up by a fixed amount/percentage. Your total deck value cannot exceed $200. If it does, you need to cut something to get it under 200.
First playsession will be long on the drafting, but then after that you'll just have short auction drafts at the start of each session to bid on cards to fill the void of what you've just cut.
Just an idea I've been toying with for a while - might suck but I think it has potential -- and would give you the dynamic aspect you're looking for in that the decks are changing because they HAVE to -- but players can still hang onto pet aspects of the deck if they really want to.
Alright, this is the latest revison of my cube -- I'm really wanting a few other sets of eyes on this to see if I'm overlooking anything terribly obvious -- or if any of my decisions seem questionable.
This is intended to be a 'good stuff' cube. I prefer games to be interactive - so I don't encourage combo to any significant extent (though it still exists)
Full cube list posted -- discussion to follow.
Cube Size: 540 Cards
Breakdown: 67 Each Color, 65 Colorless/Artifact, 68 Multicolor - 72 Land
Standard or Theme Cube: Standard
Average Draft: 4-8 players, once every couple months
Lotus is a tough one, because while it sacs to the yard, you don't really get any huge benefit from it other than a one time manafix/boost. Also doesn't help you dredge like the other mana stones do.
Another thought, maybe salvage slasher as an alternate win-con? He's an artifact himself, and he feeds off of artifacts in the yard too.
And at 1B - he's in our wheelhouse as far as casting cost.
Have you thought about running more consistent discard outlets? Putrid Imp and/or tireless tribe for example.
Also, for 'stall' you could look at the dredger that gains 2 life everytime you dredge it up. the GG cost is rough if you need to put him into play, but he might be worth it (or at least in the board v aggro)
How frequently do you find yourself getting 2 of your 4 kill spells v counters? Seems like a pretty low probability of getting what you want. Have you thought about running a singleton Drift of Phantasms along with a singleton Morgue Theft? Yes, it's slow, but it lets you transmute eventually for your 2nd kill spell.
Pimp is actually pretty nice in that he gets threshold pretty quickly - and can sneak in for a couple extra damage to bring your combo total down a bit.
Not sure what you want to do for boards - you could go pyroblast and try to fight through countermagic -- or you could maybe try something a bit crazy and go for a transitional board -- ought to be able to shift into something resembling affinity/metalcraft aggro with 15 fresh cards out of the board.
Really thinking this might have some potential -- I'm going to keep playing with it.
UR Post should be able to handle affinity unless it gets a really explosive start.
Hexproof is aight - but I think it's going to be very easily hated out. Martyr of ashes for red, patricians scorn in white, reverent silence in green. Black has sac effects.
I honestly think you're going to see post tuned to deal with aggro, and it's going to be a long three months of post mirror matches if you want to play in the dailies.
Infect was kind of on the down-slope lately anyways -- kind of odd they'd kill invigorate now.
I don't agree with completely killing off storm. Killing grapeshot would have been enough of a nerfing -- killing EtW just completely destroys that deck. Every color had an answer to it -- seems like an overreaction.
I'm seeing the rise of aggro, then the adaptation of post switching out to R/u post and maindecking martyr of ashes to combat aggro.
Should be interesting. I think post will prove to be the majority of the meta once everything settles down, and we'll probably see either glimmerpost or cloudpost on the chopping block next time - depending on whether they want to completely kill, or just nerf the deck.
Would have been nice to get a writeup about the HUGE changes to pauper too -- I can see valid arguments on banning all of these, but some explanation as to their mindset would have been nice.
anything over 10, you need to do 2 pods. It's not quite as much fun in my opinion -- because part of the fun is seeing that card you didn't want to pass show up in your buddies deck and wreck you.
Attacker: I declare my attack phase, tap bear. I pass priority.
Defender: I pass priority.
Attacker: I declare the blockers phase you have no blockers so I pass priority.
At this point, unless the defender lightning bolts the bear, youre taking 2 damage. Alternatively, if the attacker wants to hit you for 5, it should work like this.
Attacker: I declare my attack step, tap bear. I pass priority.
Defender: I pass priority.
Attacker: I declare the blockers step. you have no blockers so I cast giant growth and pass priority.
Defender: Lightning bolt. You have priority, any responses?
Attacker: Pass priority.
Defender: Me too. Lightning bolt resolves. <Places lightning bolt in graveyard>
Attacker: <Places bear in the graveyard>. Giant Growth is still on the stack, I pass priority.
Defender: Pass Priority.
Attacker: Giant growth is countered for no target. <Places giant growth in the graveyard.> I pass priority.
Defender: Pass.
Attacker: It is now the combat damage step, you take no damage.
This is how you do it play by play. However you need to get your playgroup/opponent in the habit of specifically stating what step theyre in and who has priority. Usually an opponent will say something like, "I swing with bear", to which I say, "So its your beginning of combat step?".
Rules lawyer, ho!!
Ugh. I mean, do whatever you want -- but shortcutting isn't a hard concept to grasp and work with. It's one thing if you're talking about a player who will just auto-rush through steps without asking the opponent ("I swing with my bear, you take 2 since you have no blockers, and then in my postcombat...") -- but if someone is shortcutting properly, it shouldn't be a problem.
- I swing with my bear, and cast giant growth.
- I play lightning bolt in response.
vs
Attacker: I declare my attack step, tap bear. I pass priority.
Defender: I pass priority.
Attacker: I declare the blockers step. you have no blockers so I cast giant growth and pass priority.
Defender: Lightning bolt. You have priority, any responses?
Attacker: Pass priority.
Defender: Me too. Lightning bolt resolves. <Places lightning bolt in graveyard>
Attacker: <Places bear in the graveyard>. Giant Growth is still on the stack, I pass priority.
Defender: Pass Priority.
Attacker: Giant growth is countered for no target. <Places giant growth in the graveyard.> I pass priority.
Defender: Pass.
Attacker: It is now the combat damage step, you take no damage.
Yeesh.
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Shardlands were pretty good, but once the WWK man duals were out, they got the boot pretty quickly.
Vivids lasted longer, and they're fantastic lands -- they weren't cut because they weren't good enough -- they were cut because they were making 5cc entirely too common an occurrence in our cube drafts.
Waiting a turn for the mana is awesome if it's painless 5 color (if you're control).
Not running either, couldn't be happier. If I was going no-proxy or peasant, I'd probably run them.
That isn't a terrible thing, but I found myself always falling into 5 color control and dominating -- and everyone else would have a little niche that they always tried.
I just shuffle the entire damned thing now and pick 15 at random. Could you get a pack with 15 lands? Sure, but it's pretty unlikely.
IMO it's the way to go. Makes signaling a bit more interesting (sometimes much easier to signal, sometimes harder) -- and you get a nice diverse lineup of decks.
If you want to keep the same decks going, my suggestion is that you guys 'auction draft' initially (a la fantasy football) and bid on the cards.
Each player gets $200 'virtual' dollars to spend -- that's the deck budget.
Every playsession/week you keep a nonbasic in your deck, it's budgeted value goes up by a fixed amount/percentage. Your total deck value cannot exceed $200. If it does, you need to cut something to get it under 200.
First playsession will be long on the drafting, but then after that you'll just have short auction drafts at the start of each session to bid on cards to fill the void of what you've just cut.
Just an idea I've been toying with for a while - might suck but I think it has potential -- and would give you the dynamic aspect you're looking for in that the decks are changing because they HAVE to -- but players can still hang onto pet aspects of the deck if they really want to.
Whenever you would draw a card, exile it instead.
You may play cards exiled by ~this~ by paying X life, where X is the converted mana cost of the card exiled.
And some burn to kill the mulldrifters.
This is intended to be a 'good stuff' cube. I prefer games to be interactive - so I don't encourage combo to any significant extent (though it still exists)
Full cube list posted -- discussion to follow.
Breakdown: 67 Each Color, 65 Colorless/Artifact, 68 Multicolor - 72 Land
Standard or Theme Cube: Standard
Average Draft: 4-8 players, once every couple months
Powered?: Yes
Here's a google doc if you find that easier to look at:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvBEJswaZOOedHBSV2lKendvSFV3ZFp3YXRzNnY1UFE&usp=sharing
1 Elite Vanguard
1 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
1 Mother of Runes
1 Savannah Lions
1 Student of Warfare
1 Cloistered Youth
1 Eight-and-a-Half Tails
1 Kor Skyfisher
1 Knight of Meadowgrain
1 Loyal Cathar
1 Serra Avenger
1 Soltari Monk
1 Soltari Priest
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Wall of Omens
1 Fiend Hunter
1 Mirran Crusader
1 Mirror Entity
1 Porcelain Legionnaire
1 Silverblade Paladin
1 Emeria Angel
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Restoration Angel
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Cloudgoat Ranger
1 Karmic Guide
1 Reveillark
1 Sun Titan
1 Yosei, the Morning Star
1 Angel of Serenity
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Mikeaus, the Lunarch
1 Condemn
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Land Tax
1 Mana Tithe
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Balance
1 Disenchant
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Seal of Cleansing
1 Blind Obedience
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Lingering Souls
1 Spectral Procession
1 Glorious Anthem
1 Ajani Goldmane
1 Armageddon
1 Day of Judgment
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Faith's Fetters
1 Parallax Wave
1 Wrath of God
1 Gideon Jura
1 Rout
1 Catastrophe
1 Decree of Justice
1 Entreat the Angels
1 Martial Coup
1 Delver of Secrets
1 Enclave Cryptologist
1 Azure Mage
1 Gilded Drake
1 Looter il-Kor
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Waterfront Bouncer
1 Kira, Great Glass Spinner
1 Man-O-War
1 Sea Gate Oracle
1 Serendib Efreet
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Trinket Mage
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Sower of Temptation
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
1 Mulldrifter
1 Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Draining Whelk
1 Frost Titan
1 Keiga, the Tide Star
1 Palinchron
1 Sphinx of Uthuun
1 Ancestral Vision
1 Pact of Negation
1 Ancestral Recall
1 Brainstorm
1 Force Spike
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Spell Pierce
1 Arcane Denial
1 Counterspell
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Daze
1 Impulse
1 Mana Drain
1 Mana Leak
1 Miscalculation
1 Remand
1 Memory Lapse
1 Time Walk
1 Forbid
1 Jace Beleren
1 Thirst for Knowledge
1 Tinker
1 Control Magic
1 Cryptic Command
1 Deep Analysis
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Opposition
1 Mystical Teachings
1 Force of Will
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Time Warp
1 Treachery
1 Upheaval
1 Carnophage
1 Diregraf Ghoul
1 Vampire Lacerator
1 Bloodghast
1 Dark Confdiant
1 Dauthi Horror
1 Gatekeeper of Malakir
1 Knight of Infamy
1 Nantuko Shade
1 Nezumi Graverobber
1 Nezumi Shortfang
1 Oona's Prowler
1 Pack Rat
1 Vampire Hexmage
1 Dauthi Marauder
1 Demonic Taskmaster
1 Geralf's Messenger
1 Hypnotic Specter
1 Vampire Nighthawk
1 Undead Gladiator
1 Abyssal Persecutor
1 Bloodline Keeper
1 Desecration Demon
1 Graveborn Muse
1 Nekrataal
1 Skinrender
1 Bane of the Living
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloodchief
1 Shriekmaw
1 Ob Nixilis, the Fallen
1 Grave Titan
1 Kokusho, the Evening Star
1 Griselbrand
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Tombstalker
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Duress
1 Reanimate
1 Thoughtseize
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Animate Dead
1 Bitterblossom
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Doom Blade
1 Go for the Throat
1 Hymn to Tourach
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Necromancy
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Recurring Nightmare
1 Stupor
1 Barter in Blood
1 Damnation
1 Snuff Out
1 Consuming Vapors
1 Living Death
1 Unburial Rites
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Mind Twist
1 Profane Command
1 Goblin Guide
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Jackal Pup
1 Kird Ape
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Reckless Waif
1 Spikeshot Elder
1 Stonewright
1 Stromkirk Noble
1 Ash Zealot
1 Ember Hauler
1 Gore-House Chainwalker
1 Hellspark Elemental
1 Kargan Dragonlord
1 Keldon Mauraders
1 Lightning Mauler
1 Plated Geopede
1 Stormblood Berserker
1 Torch Fiend
1 Goblin Ruinblaster
1 Hell's Thunder
1 Keldon Vandals
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Manic Vandal
1 Archwing Dragon
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Hellrider
1 Keldon Champion
1 Blistering Firecat
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Inferno Titan
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Burst Lightning
1 Chain Lightning
1 Faithless Looting
1 Firebolt
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Reckless Charge
1 Arc Trail
1 Incinerate
1 Magma Jet
1 Mizzium Mortars
1 Searing Spear
1 Smash to Smithereens
1 Char
1 Molten Rain
1 Pillage
1 Staggershock
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Wheel of Fortune
1 Arc Lightning
1 Chandra the Firebrand
1 Koth of the Hammer
1 Sneak Attack
1 Fireblast
1 Flame Javelin
1 Wildfire
1 Banefire
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Devil's Play
1 Arbor Elf
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Noble Hierarch
1 Experiment One
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Lotus Cobra
1 River Boa
1 Rofellos, Llanowar Emissary
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scorned Villager
1 Strangleroot Geist
1 Tarmogoyf
1 Viridian Zealot
1 Wall of Blossoms
1 Wall of Roots
1 Imperious Perfect
1 Ohran Viper
1 Troll Ascetic
1 Viridian Shaman
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Slaughterhorn
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Master of the Wild Hunt
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Phantom Centaur
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Vengevine
1 Wickerbough Elder
1 Deranged Hermit
1 Genesis
1 Indrik Stomphowler
1 Thragtusk
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Vorapede
1 Primeval Titan
1 Krosan Tusker
1 Terastadon
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Rancor
1 Vines of Vastwood
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Regrowth
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Life from the Loam
1 Call of the Herd
1 Cultivate
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Krosan Grip
1 Birthing Pod
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Harmonize
1 Plow Under
1 Primal Command
1 Rude Awakening
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Treetop Village
1 Black Lotus
1 Chromatic Lantern
1 Coalition Relic
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Grim Monolith
1 Lotus Petal
1 Mana Crypt
1 Mana Vault
1 Mox Diamond
1 Mox Emerald
1 Mox Jet
1 Mox Pearl
1 Mox Ruby
1 Mox Sapphire
1 Sol Ring
1 Aether Vial
1 Ankh of Mishra
1 Chimeric Mass
1 Cursed Scroll
1 Isochron Scepter
1 Karn Liberated
1 Mimic Vat
1 Mindslaver
1 Pithing Needle
1 Ratchet Bomb
1 Scroll Rack
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Shrine of Burning Rage
1 Tumble Magnet
1 Crystal Shard
1 Juggernaut
1 Lodestone Golem
1 Molten-Tail Masticore
1 Myr Battlesphere
1 Palladium Myr
1 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Platinum Angel
1 Razormane Masticore
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Spellskite
1 Sundering Titan
1 Triskelion
1 Wurmcoil Engine
1 Cheatyface
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Batterskull
1 Bonesplitter
1 Grafted Wargear
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Mortarpod
1 Skullclamp
1 Sword of Body and Mind
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Chaos Orb
1 Azorius Charm
1 Azorius Guildmage
1 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
1 Geist of Saint Traft
1 Isperia, Supreme Judge
1 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Baleful Strix
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Havengul Lich
1 Oona, Queen of the Fae
1 Psychatog
1 Soul Manipulation
1 Countersquall
1 Dreadbore
1 Fulminator Mage
1 Murderous Redcap
1 Rakdos Cackler
1 Sarkhan the Mad
1 Terminate
1 Bloodbraid Elf
1 Flinthoof Boor
1 Clan Defiance
1 Ghor-Clan Rampager
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Huntsmaster of the Fells
1 Kird Ape
1 gavony township
1 Kitchen Finks
1 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Selesyna Charm
1 Selesyna Guildmage
1 Debtors' Knell
1 Mortify
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Stillmoon Cavalier
1 Unmake
1 Vindicate
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Aurelia's Fury
1 Boros Charm
1 Figure of Destiny
1 Gisela, Blade of the Goldnight
1 Lightning Helix
1 Fire/Ice
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
1 Mercurial Chemister
1 Nucklavee
1 Edric, Spymaster of Trest
1 Mystic Snake
1 Simic Charm
1 Simic Sky Swallower
1 Spitting Image
1 Trygon Predator
1 Deathrite Shaman
1 Lotleth Troll
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Vraska the Unseen
1 Wild Nacatl
1 Sphinx of the Steel Wind
10x Shocklands
10x Fetchlands
5x Worldwake Duals
5x M10 Duals
1 City of Brass
1 Gemstone Mine
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Thawing Glacier
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Library of Alexandria
1 Maze of Ith
1 Mishra's Factor
1 Mutavault
1 Rishadan Port
1 Strip Mine
1 Wasteland
1 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Academy Ruins
Another thought, maybe salvage slasher as an alternate win-con? He's an artifact himself, and he feeds off of artifacts in the yard too.
And at 1B - he's in our wheelhouse as far as casting cost.
Also, for 'stall' you could look at the dredger that gains 2 life everytime you dredge it up. the GG cost is rough if you need to put him into play, but he might be worth it (or at least in the board v aggro)
How frequently do you find yourself getting 2 of your 4 kill spells v counters? Seems like a pretty low probability of getting what you want. Have you thought about running a singleton Drift of Phantasms along with a singleton Morgue Theft? Yes, it's slow, but it lets you transmute eventually for your 2nd kill spell.
Pimp is actually pretty nice in that he gets threshold pretty quickly - and can sneak in for a couple extra damage to bring your combo total down a bit.
Not sure what you want to do for boards - you could go pyroblast and try to fight through countermagic -- or you could maybe try something a bit crazy and go for a transitional board -- ought to be able to shift into something resembling affinity/metalcraft aggro with 15 fresh cards out of the board.
Really thinking this might have some potential -- I'm going to keep playing with it.
Sure, you can do it, but you're probably diluting your deck from focusing on what it's trying to do.
Also, Ethersworn Shieldmage for fog effect -- but obviously can't play it out of the yard.
Seems like a great find of a card -- I'm going to start playing with it.
Hexproof is aight - but I think it's going to be very easily hated out. Martyr of ashes for red, patricians scorn in white, reverent silence in green. Black has sac effects.
I honestly think you're going to see post tuned to deal with aggro, and it's going to be a long three months of post mirror matches if you want to play in the dailies.
I don't agree with completely killing off storm. Killing grapeshot would have been enough of a nerfing -- killing EtW just completely destroys that deck. Every color had an answer to it -- seems like an overreaction.
I'm seeing the rise of aggro, then the adaptation of post switching out to R/u post and maindecking martyr of ashes to combat aggro.
Should be interesting. I think post will prove to be the majority of the meta once everything settles down, and we'll probably see either glimmerpost or cloudpost on the chopping block next time - depending on whether they want to completely kill, or just nerf the deck.
Would have been nice to get a writeup about the HUGE changes to pauper too -- I can see valid arguments on banning all of these, but some explanation as to their mindset would have been nice.
Or vice versa.
Rules lawyer, ho!!
Ugh. I mean, do whatever you want -- but shortcutting isn't a hard concept to grasp and work with. It's one thing if you're talking about a player who will just auto-rush through steps without asking the opponent ("I swing with my bear, you take 2 since you have no blockers, and then in my postcombat...") -- but if someone is shortcutting properly, it shouldn't be a problem.
- I swing with my bear, and cast giant growth.
- I play lightning bolt in response.
vs
Attacker: I declare my attack step, tap bear. I pass priority.
Defender: I pass priority.
Attacker: I declare the blockers step. you have no blockers so I cast giant growth and pass priority.
Defender: Lightning bolt. You have priority, any responses?
Attacker: Pass priority.
Defender: Me too. Lightning bolt resolves. <Places lightning bolt in graveyard>
Attacker: <Places bear in the graveyard>. Giant Growth is still on the stack, I pass priority.
Defender: Pass Priority.
Attacker: Giant growth is countered for no target. <Places giant growth in the graveyard.> I pass priority.
Defender: Pass.
Attacker: It is now the combat damage step, you take no damage.
Yeesh.