Would you mind sharing a few thoughts about matchups and maybe your approach to sideboarding? That is the part I always feel I am not very good at because I never know if what I boarded was right...
I'm not the OP you are reffering to, but i've played blue decks in modern for the last couple years and blue moon for the last couple months. I based my list off of the deck Rietzl played. General idea is to outcard midrange decks (jund, abzan, jeskai) with blood moon and visions + Dark dweller and Madcap the aggressive decks with limited removal (dredge, affinity, burn, deaths shadow zoo).
Some thoughts from playing blue decks in modern for years. Counterspells, especially leak and remand, as a general rule of thumb suck game 1. You're not tempoing or comboing so remand has less value. 2 mana counters are often inefficient because of all the lean decks out there (deaths shadow, burn, infect, affinity, etc). You're already much slower than they are and losing more tempo by using 2 mana to counter 1 mana. I play a very limited number of counters main deck (just spell snares for goyfs mainly). Cryptics are ok, but with madcap + dark dweller I didnt want to clunk up the deck more so I cut them. You are weak to Liliana by not having leak, but Id rather be weak to one card than weak to multiple decks.
As for sideboard it depends on how you want to try to win
vs Grindy decks (jund, jeskai, etc) - Cut the madcap package and put in grindy cards like Jace, AOT, Keranos, Boom bust (grindy decks usually play manlands). Win con is card advantage.
vs Aggressive decks - Put in all the removal. Clique, 1 dark dweller, and 2-3 moons are often cut. Win con is kill everything and have superior cards in the later game.
vs Big land decks - Put in boom bust (not many tron, valakut players in my area. Id go to 3 boom bust in the board if that was the case). You have to mulligan hard for blood moon/boom bust vs tron.
Also, I'm pretty sure you could probably afford to cut at least one or two lands from your deck. How does Trinket Mage perform for you? I see your targets are Everflowing Chalice and Sol Ring, so you spend 4 mana to obtain two colorless more, an effect which could be obtained by playing another Explosive Vegetation effect.
Hi Alpha, Thanks for the suggestions.
Trinket Mage is an all-star. His main purpose is for the opening below. Same reason fabricate is in the deck.
T2 - Ramp
T3 - 4 Mana up. Trinket Mage into Mana Vault
T4 - 8 Mana up. Cast MW
I tried Bribery. It's CRAZY good against the fatty casting decks which I have no problems with as is. Its HORRIBLE against the decks that don't have good targets (Zur, Arcum, Edric) and these decks are the ones that give me problems.
My reasoning is that the lands are taking too much space. If you have tons of rocks, dorks, and searchers, you really don't need more lands. 36-38 is enough if you have 16 ramps. Plus you have draws and very very cheap rocks to cast your guy.
I would like to but can't cut any more land. Even with all the ramp I want to hit the first 4 land drops which mean at least 40 land. Missing a land drop before turn 4 in this deck is really really bad news.
1x Avenger of Zendikar - Tried him. He was good. I wanted to try Sphinx of Uthuun since he flys. This deck has problems with flyers.
1x Trinket Mage - Awesome card. Hes in the deck right now.
1x Cavern of Souls - I feel a more stable mana base (colored mana) is more important than making MW uncounterable. Cascade, Cascade is killer on permission.
1x Tezzeret the Seeker - I'll give him a shot if I can find cards to cut
1x Sensei's Divining Top - He was the last cut I made.....might still deserve to be in the deck.
1x Soothsaying - Too mana intensive
1x Mizzium Mortars - Maybe
1x Cyclonic Rift - Maybe
1x Washout - Would rather play into the roil
1x Evacuation - Maybe
The game plan is to ramp to wanderer. The deck has a 25% chance to cast wanderer turn 4 or earlier if I did probability correctly (BIG IF). Backup plan is birthing pod combo with Kiki-Jiki and Conscripts. All of this needs to happen while keeping the enemy general in check. We play tuck so cards like chaos warp and spin into myth are quite good. The decks that I have the most problems with are focused general centric decks (zur, arcum, etc) so I play removal spells like pongify and flame slash. We also start at 40 life.
I need to cut cards to make it a 100 card deck. Shardless Agent and Bloodbraid Elf are fun so I wont be cutting those even if they aren't that great. Ramp cards also are on the no cut list
Flame Slash, Lignify are also good against the weaker matchups such as extreme general centric decks (Zur, Arcum Dagson, etc). There isn't a lot of enchantment hate so lignify is actually quite good.
Maybe add in Kiki-Jiki, Birthing Pod, Zealous Conscripts, Glen Elendra Archmage? They are all perfectly good cards in their own right but can infinite combo starting with Pod and Elendra. Pod Elendra -> Conscript, Untap Pod with Conscript -> Pod Elendra for Kiki-Jiki....make infinite conscripts and swing. This has won me many games although I probably would have won those games anyways.
Crystal Shard was also a lot of fun, although i did end up cutting it because it didn't do enough early game. Crystal shard for eternal witness for timewalk shaningens or crystal shard wanderer. You can also crystal shard opponents creatures (you can delay their general one turn).
I like All is Dust more than Karn. This deck has inevitability. It just needs to stay alive. All is Dust is better at staying alive.
Burning of Xinye, Destructive Force, Wildfire, All is Dust are all VERY good in this deck because of ramp. They are usually the cascades I want to see the most off Wanderer.
Zur first fetches Vanishing, which makes him all but impossible to remove. Once he's impossible to remove, there's almost no way to stop Pemmin's Aura followed by Steel of the Godhead.
Actually you get necropotence and proceed to win. Getting vanishing type cards are a waste of a search. If they had removal you wouldn't have been able to swing. Necro in play means you win. They can top deck a removal and you still win since you have necro in play and drew 10-15 cards and one of which was a counter. Even if they somehow kill zur, its not a big deal. You have crazy card advantage.
Zur decks are Necropotence.dec. Zur is just the best/most consistant way to get necro into play.
Ive played Necropotence.dec AKA Zur, Scion Hermit Druid Combo, Many different iterations of GAAIV, and good stuff Edric.
Scion is the best at beating bad decks. It literally just crushes them but I would say Edric or Zur are the most powerful because they still crush bad decks and in my opinion have a better game against good decks.
Its ok in karador, but i dont feel its worth a slot. As with most 3 color decks, there are too many good cards and not enough slots.
I'm not sure how your games play out but if they are grindy like mine then you may want to try Garruk Relentless, Elspeth Knight Errant and Sorin Lord of Innistrad. If you combo kill most of the time then these cards probably wont cut it.
I've been playing this deck for about a month in a non-french environment (sol ring, mana crypt, etc) so the meta is probably very different.
1. The Humility problem
This deck cannot deal with a resolved Humility. It's incredibly frustrating to grind out a game for 20-30 minutes, only to have that drop, and then just flat out lose. Obvious inclusion should be Ray of Revelation, since you can still be dredging with Humility in play.
I play pernicious deed as a generic answer. It goes well with a Sun Titan soft lock and call kill random hard to deal with permanents. It does kill a lot of my own permanents, but creatures in the graveyard isn't totally a bad thing.
2. Creature Theft
Getting Karador stolen at the wrong time has been a big issue for me. Whether it's Treachery, Vedalken Shackles, or Sower of Temptation, if the appropriate answer is already in the graveyard, you might have just lost Karador for the rest of the game. That's not cool. I think Volrath's Stronghold could be a good plan B to get the right answer to whatever is stealing Karador, get him back, and resume shenanigans. Also, Stony Silence / Null Rod to deal with Shackles. Notice that Ray also deals with Treachery & Co. Cabal Pit is another answer you can get back with Life from the Loam to deal with Sower, or a lot of other dudes. Threshold shouldn't be a problem, here.
3. Graveyard Hate
Other than Bojuka Bog, Scavenging Ooze, and Shred Memory, most gy hate I see is in artifact form like Nihil Spellbomb, Phyrexian Furnace, Relic of Progenitus, and Tormod's Crypt. Stony Silence / Null Rod might be good, here, too?
I haven't lost to graveyard removal yet. I play card draw (Phyrexian Arena, Necropotence, Grisebrand, Ohran Viper, Dark Confidant, Sylvan Library, Skullclamp, Stoneforge Mystic to get Skullclamp) so that even if they remove the graveyard there is gas left to win the game.
On a side note. I added in Griselbrand and removed Iona. Iona is way more powerful in my opinion, however, Griselbrand games are more interactive. From a pure power perspective I would play Iona over Griselbrand in a heart beat. Plus, you can pod into Iona if Karador is in play!
I don't care for it at all. I've never liked it in legacy and I don't like it in EDH. I've had many many experiences with it being a dead card in hand or getting minimal value. With that said, a lot of people do like it so you should experiment with it yourself and see how you feel about it.
I'm not the OP you are reffering to, but i've played blue decks in modern for the last couple years and blue moon for the last couple months. I based my list off of the deck Rietzl played. General idea is to outcard midrange decks (jund, abzan, jeskai) with blood moon and visions + Dark dweller and Madcap the aggressive decks with limited removal (dredge, affinity, burn, deaths shadow zoo).
Some thoughts from playing blue decks in modern for years. Counterspells, especially leak and remand, as a general rule of thumb suck game 1. You're not tempoing or comboing so remand has less value. 2 mana counters are often inefficient because of all the lean decks out there (deaths shadow, burn, infect, affinity, etc). You're already much slower than they are and losing more tempo by using 2 mana to counter 1 mana. I play a very limited number of counters main deck (just spell snares for goyfs mainly). Cryptics are ok, but with madcap + dark dweller I didnt want to clunk up the deck more so I cut them. You are weak to Liliana by not having leak, but Id rather be weak to one card than weak to multiple decks.
As for sideboard it depends on how you want to try to win
3 Platinum Emperion
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Vendilion Clique
3 Goblin Dark Dweller
8 Island
4 Polluted Delta
4 Flodded Strand
2 Steam Vents
2 Sulfur Falls
2 Mountain
1 Wandering Fumarole
1 Roast
1 Flame Slash
1 Izzet Charm
2 Harvest Pyre
2 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Madcap Experiment
4 Serum Visions
4 Ancestral Visions
2 Spell Snare
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Jace, AOT
1 Keranos God of Storms
3 Dispel
1 Izzet Staticaster
2 Negate
1 Gut Shot
1 Sudden Shock
1 Vandalblast
2 Boom Bust
Hi Alpha, Thanks for the suggestions.
Trinket Mage is an all-star. His main purpose is for the opening below. Same reason fabricate is in the deck.
T2 - Ramp
T3 - 4 Mana up. Trinket Mage into Mana Vault
T4 - 8 Mana up. Cast MW
I tried Bribery. It's CRAZY good against the fatty casting decks which I have no problems with as is. Its HORRIBLE against the decks that don't have good targets (Zur, Arcum, Edric) and these decks are the ones that give me problems.
Hi Acardus,
I would like to but can't cut any more land. Even with all the ramp I want to hit the first 4 land drops which mean at least 40 land. Missing a land drop before turn 4 in this deck is really really bad news.
1x Avenger of Zendikar - Tried him. He was good. I wanted to try Sphinx of Uthuun since he flys. This deck has problems with flyers.
1x Trinket Mage - Awesome card. Hes in the deck right now.
1x Cavern of Souls - I feel a more stable mana base (colored mana) is more important than making MW uncounterable. Cascade, Cascade is killer on permission.
1x Tezzeret the Seeker - I'll give him a shot if I can find cards to cut
1x Sensei's Divining Top - He was the last cut I made.....might still deserve to be in the deck.
1x Soothsaying - Too mana intensive
1x Mizzium Mortars - Maybe
1x Cyclonic Rift - Maybe
1x Washout - Would rather play into the roil
1x Evacuation - Maybe
I need to cut cards to make it a 100 card deck. Shardless Agent and Bloodbraid Elf are fun so I wont be cutting those even if they aren't that great. Ramp cards also are on the no cut list
Thanks in advance for any suggestions!
01 Maelstrom Wanderer
Land (41)
02 Arid Mesa
03 Misty Rainforest
04 Scalding Tarn
05 Verdant Catacomb
06 Polluted Delta
07 Flooded Strand
08 Wooded Foothiils
09 Windswept Heath
10 Bloodstained Mire
11 Volcanic Island
12 Tropical Island
13 Taiga
14 Steam Vents
15 Breeding Pool
16 Stomping Ground
17 Hinterland Harbor
18 Rootbound Crag
19 Sulfur Falls
20 Yavimaya Coast
21 Shivan Reef
22 City of Brass
23 Command Tower
24 Reflecting Pool
25 Flooded Grove
26 Grove of the Burnwillows
27 Simic Growth Chamber
28 Dryad Arbor
29 Mouth of Ronom
30 Snow Island
31 Snow Island
32 Snow Island
33 Snow Island
34 Snow Forest
35 Snow Forest
36 Snow Forest
37 Snow Forest
38 Snow Mountain
39 Snow Mountain
40 Wasteland
41 Stripmine
42 Ancient Tomb
43 Gilded Drake
44 Phantasmal Image
45 Shardless Agent
46 Trinket Mage
47 Eternal Witness
48 Somberwald Sage
49 Phyrexian Metamorph
50 Flametongue Kavu
51 Glen Elendra Arch Mage
52 Bloodbraid Elf
53 Oracle of Mul Daya
54 Zealous Conscript
55 Kiki Jiki Mirror Breaker
56 Acidic Slime
57 Inferno Titan
58 Frost Titan
59 Consecrated Sphinx
60 Sphinx of Uthuun
Ramp (16)
61 Lotus Bloom
62 Mana Crypt
63 Sol Ring
64 Mana Vault
65 Farseek
66 Three Visits
67 Into the North
68 Rampant Growth
69 Sakura Tribe Elder
70 Nature's Lore
71 Search for Tomorrow
72 Fellwar Stone
73 Everflowing Chalice
74 Grim Monolith
75 Basalt Monolith
76 Thran Dynamo
77 Ponder
78 Preordain
79 Brainstorm
80 Sylvan Library
81 Compulsive Research
82 Fact/Fiction
83 Urban Evolution
84 Time Spiral
Removal (11)
85 Rapid Hyberization
86 Pongify
87 Flame Slash
88 Ancient Grudge
89 Beast Within
90 Chaos Warp
91 Nevinyrral's Disk
92 Spin into Myth
93 Wildfire
94 Destructive Force
95 All is Dust
Misc (8)
96 Green Sun's Zenith
97 Mana Drain
98 Fabricate
99 Birthing Pod
100 Jace, The Mind Sculptor
101 Cryptic Command
102 Treachery
103 Karn Liberated
Maybe add in Kiki-Jiki, Birthing Pod, Zealous Conscripts, Glen Elendra Archmage? They are all perfectly good cards in their own right but can infinite combo starting with Pod and Elendra. Pod Elendra -> Conscript, Untap Pod with Conscript -> Pod Elendra for Kiki-Jiki....make infinite conscripts and swing. This has won me many games although I probably would have won those games anyways.
Crystal Shard was also a lot of fun, although i did end up cutting it because it didn't do enough early game. Crystal shard for eternal witness for timewalk shaningens or crystal shard wanderer. You can also crystal shard opponents creatures (you can delay their general one turn).
I like All is Dust more than Karn. This deck has inevitability. It just needs to stay alive. All is Dust is better at staying alive.
Actually you get necropotence and proceed to win. Getting vanishing type cards are a waste of a search. If they had removal you wouldn't have been able to swing. Necro in play means you win. They can top deck a removal and you still win since you have necro in play and drew 10-15 cards and one of which was a counter. Even if they somehow kill zur, its not a big deal. You have crazy card advantage.
Zur decks are Necropotence.dec. Zur is just the best/most consistant way to get necro into play.
Scion is the best at beating bad decks. It literally just crushes them but I would say Edric or Zur are the most powerful because they still crush bad decks and in my opinion have a better game against good decks.
I'm not familiar with dual commander but with official banlist Kaalia is a bad Zur. They both want to do the same thing...swing once.
I'm not sure how your games play out but if they are grindy like mine then you may want to try Garruk Relentless, Elspeth Knight Errant and Sorin Lord of Innistrad. If you combo kill most of the time then these cards probably wont cut it.
I play pernicious deed as a generic answer. It goes well with a Sun Titan soft lock and call kill random hard to deal with permanents. It does kill a lot of my own permanents, but creatures in the graveyard isn't totally a bad thing.
I play in a sol ring environment, hence, Viridian Shaman, Harmonic Sliver, Wickerbough Elder, Acidic Slime, Quasali Pridemage, Ogtubi Orangatun, Sylvlok Replica are all in the deck. In addition, I play Mother of Runes, Viscera Seer and Phyrexian Tower. All of these help deal with theft. I've been thinking about adding Homeward Path and Sylvan Safekeeper but havent tried them yet.
I haven't lost to graveyard removal yet. I play card draw (Phyrexian Arena, Necropotence, Grisebrand, Ohran Viper, Dark Confidant, Sylvan Library, Skullclamp, Stoneforge Mystic to get Skullclamp) so that even if they remove the graveyard there is gas left to win the game.
On a side note. I added in Griselbrand and removed Iona. Iona is way more powerful in my opinion, however, Griselbrand games are more interactive. From a pure power perspective I would play Iona over Griselbrand in a heart beat. Plus, you can pod into Iona if Karador is in play!
Thanks!