MTG Salvation

Huh... thought I replied to this... guess not.

Quote from KingAtheos »

I love the deck. Might I suggest Gravestorm? On turn 3, it is a good source of draw and grave hate. I cannot count how many cards I have drawn from this. Best of all, in a multiplayer setting you get to choose which opponent.

Anywho. Yeah, I think Gravestorm has come up a few times. Since I'm running a small devotion package this card seems like a great fit for that. My issue is that .... honestly I don't know. 1 extra card a turn seems neat. I have quite a bit of draw in there now so something reusable would be cool. I may have to look into this card a bit. Sadly the list is VERY tight and finding things to take out is getting hard unless I'm taking tutors out for draw. I'll keep this in my back pocket to maybe upgrade a weaker draw spell.

With the upcoming release of War of the Spark I've decided it might be time to look at some of the new goodies in recent sets and WAR.

Bankrupt in Blood, Blood Divination, Costly Plunder: These "Sac some amount of critters, draw cards" cards are interesting. Since I've been pulling away from tutors in general, these are rather interesting to me. I poop out a few tokens so I have many expendable critters. They also make for good sac outlets to get things going.
Helm of the Host: This card is just gross. There are lots of things I'd love to dupe each turn. It also creates sac fodder for things, which is always a good thing.
Priest of Forgotten Gods: I can't tell if this is good or if just "does things". Either way, for the low, low cost of tapping and saccing a pair of dopes, stuff happens. I like the mana and card draw. It's like a crappier Phyrexian Tower that does other things.
Bolas's Citadel: This card is bonkers. It might go against the spirit of this deck (make fun, not oppression). I just can't keep my eyes off of it. I'm pretty sure this should be run in a good majority of black decks.
Command the Dreadhorde: This seems like a solid card to recur something or just pull a bunch of crap out of the any grave. I may test this in my Beacon of Unrest slot. I just want to see if it's worth including.
The Elderspell: This is going to be a meta call. It's been a while since I've physically played at my LGS, and it being a college town, I can only assume that the meta will shift. I may keep one on hand as being able to tick Ob-Nixilis of the Black Oath up would be nice. This will just destroy Super Friends strategies as well. So we'll see.
Finale of Eternity: I can generate absurd amounts of mana here (non-infinite). Removal + Mass Rez seems like a good thing. 12 mana is a bit rough, but it wouldn't hurt to try.
God-Eternal Bontu: So, I've been trying to figure out what to put in place of Razaketh, the Foulblooded. Raza is stupidly good. It just goes against how I want this deck to play. Iso made the suggestion to me and when I really looked at it, Bontu kind of fills the same role Raza does. Mass sac outlet and cards to hand. As I've stated, I'm trying to move away from tutors (I still have a few, I'm not that crazy) and Bontu helps in that aspect.

I may edit this post with more thoughts when I get a chance, just wanted to put my initial thoughts down before I forgot.

[EDIT BELOW]
It's getting to be slightly difficult to make cuts for anything as this deck has been tested into the ground. I don't want this deck to be so tuned that it's "good". I want it to be fun to pilot/play against. As I've tested I've run into some cards that could be cut due to being oppressive/not fun.

Torment of Hailfire: I initially took out Exsaguinate for this, because it was just an "I win" card. The deck is capable of generating an absurd (non-infinite) amount of mana. In theory its a fun win-con, but like Gary, this card just got boring. I figured replacing it with a less "I win" card would be ok, but I was wrong. I just didn't ever want to cast it. I don't know yet what I'm going to replace this with, but it will be replaced with my WAR updates.
Razaketh, the Foulblooded: This card is really, REALLY good. I never fully tested with it, but assumed it would be ok. Boy was I wrong. Was playing against RabidVacin and Raza was just gross. I felt horrible just tutoring up my entire deck, essentially, leaving RV to just watch me play with myself ( ). I hate when this deck plays out like that. I want interaction, I want to play the game with others. So, yeah, out Raza comes. I've already decided that ZomBontu will replace Raza.

I may pull Demonic Tutor as I test cards. I still have Whisper, Blood Liturgist, Yawgmoth's Vile Offering and Cabal Stronghold that I've been meaning to test.

It seems I've not tinkered with my docs in a while that I forgot I still had some notes for this deck. As always, finding what to replace cards with is rather difficult.

Cards I'm considering:

Whisper, Blood Liturgist: While discussing a deck with Iso, Whisper came up. He's running Whisper in his Endrek deck and has enjoyed it. I do want to up my creature counts and drop my non creatures. This makes me want to swap Victimize for it, but I feel Victimize is still the better card. I'll probably test Whisper somewhere to see how it plays.

Yawgmoth's Vile Offering: Since this card was spoiled, I've wanted it. I do run a few Legends, all of which are combo pieces or enablers, so I shouldn't have too much of an issue casting this. Being able to hit any grave for the reanimation is great. Having removal tacked on is just icing on the cake.

Cabal Stronghold: Cabal Coffers is great. This card is not Coffers, but I feel it has potential. 24 of my lands are basic swamps so I may test it to find out if I'm right or wrong on my assessment. The 3 mana activation might also be its downfall.

It's been a while, but this is still my most prized deck. I enjoy the fact that I've put so much effort (and continue to do so) into a deck I consider a troll. In any case, I enjoy this deck more than I should. Before I get into changes, I want to get into an observation I had recently. But not from my deck, from RabidVacin's take on Obby (Ob Nixilis, Unshackled): Soldevi Adnate. I feel this card is highly underrated. Even I didn't even give the card a single thought until I saw RV put it to great use. Playing a game against him and we are both stuck on 3 lands. He's able to keep going while I get nowhere. The Adnate allows him to just keep playing at the cost of a creature. Yeah, seems like something this deck could use.

So, I'm not 100% sure what changes I've made as I've been solo testing, taking cards in and out and not taking my doc up to date of my changes. So, I'll just post here the changes that I've recently made, using the current posted deck as starting point (I'll update it here shortly):

Changes:
Grim Monolith -> Soldevi Adnate: Hear me out here. 2CMC rock for 2CMC critter rock/Sac outlet. I mean, yeah, summoning sickness. Keep in mind, I do have things that allow me to bypass sickness, so its not a big deal. I've also been trying to figure out how to take the Monolith out as I honestly feel I don't need it. I'd actually much rather have the sac outlet that can give me some mana to do things. I mean, the deck likes lots of mana to do things.
Diabolic Tutor ->Necropotence: Firstly, my list for tracking things is all kinds of broken, and the list posted here (soon to be updated) is also wrong. My physical deck is in pieces as I'm currently using parts of it in other decks. So verifying ANYTHING has been a hassle. In any case, at some point Nirkana Revenant was taken out for the skull, then put back in replacing the skull. Weird, I know. It might have been a time where I was trying to take proxies out of the physical deck. In any case, in wanting to minimize shuffling due to running lots of tutors I'm making this change. It saddens me to pull my altered Diabolic, but my Selenia deck can use it.

In there end, there were quite a few changes I needed to put into my doc as well as the first post here, and sometimes both places contradicted each other. That's what happens when I test and don't pay attention to what I'm doing.

While it doesn't seem like i did much, the main post will have a few changes. I'll try to get more games in online with a few of the users/mods here. Since I don't have to worry about proxies for online testing, I'll be working on the deck as it should be, not what I'm currently running in physical form.

Now, on to the short, one-sided game I had with RV this afternoon:
I start by mulling to 6 card hand with 3 lands, Bitterblossom and some other 4+ casting things. I'm on the draw. He gets a t2 Soldevi Adnate, I get a t2 Bitterblossom. I get a Phyrexian Reclamation into play, but I'm stuck on 3 lands. RV drops a Stronghold Assassin, which he turns into 3 mana via Adnate and casts Ob Nixilis, Unshackled. Not much happens for a couple of turns as I try to find that 4th land. I cast Sign in Blood and whiff on lands. He ends up getting a Harbinger of Night into play and that is essentially game as he drops a Reclamation of his own. His Obby is a healthy 9/9 and I'll get commander damaged out before I can do anything of use. From this I learned that Adnate is better than it looks and would work quite well in my build. Since I can use it sac artifacts as well, I may test Spine of Ish Sah in the Scour From Existance slot. 7 mana removal spell for 7 mana artifact that can be used as Adnate fodder. For now, that's just a thought I have. Further testing is required.

Edit: I'm an idiot and didn't quite read Soldevi Adnate properly. Nevertheless, its a great enabler for the deck.

I'm going to post here first, before I update the OP (this may be a while before I do so). I don't get to play too much, but I still brew, theory-craft, and playtest. Though, I did come across a few things and made some changes. I've decided to "Pimp" Obby because "why not". I also feel that the subtlety of the overall troll that is Obby becomes compleat. "But serrot," you say "what does this have to do with the build?" Well, that means I'm double sleeving this monstrosity as I get some pretty cards. While I may not have tiny hands, they are sausages attached to meathooks... I'm also very clumsy and not very dexterous. Due to this, I've decided to remove some of my tutors and "shuffle library" cards. This change will be slow as I get a handle on what an "acceptable amount of shuffling" will be allowed. In testing and brewing with other nerds (I'm looking at you Iso), I've also come across cards that go against the spirit of the deck. Which is to have fun.

Changes:
Sculpting Steel -> Reanimate: Now that I got my hands on one (thanks, iso), I can actually put it back in. Steel was fun, but was the weakest of the cards I put in to test.
Exsanguinate -> Torment of Hailfire: Exsanguinate is one of those cards that I hated casting because I could just win. On the surface the cards feel the same. They are not. Token strategies and enormous hand strategies can keep Torment of just outright winning. It feels more like a discard or boardwipe spell.
Gray Merchant of Asphodel -> Vindictive Lich: I'm crazy, I know. Gary is just too easy to abuse and just win. Not what I'm looking to do in this deck. I want to have fun, and looping Gary was not that. I think the fact that he easily scales to large numbers is why he feels too oppressive (this is the same reason I run Abhorrent Overlord, but creating a mass of tokens is better than just outright winning). I like cards that give me options, and the Lich does just that. Looping this guy could empty someone's hand, wipe someone's board and/or take someone down to 0. I really like the potential here. Oh, and he's clampable... BONUS!
Skeletal Scrying -> Twilight Prophet: There are a couple of things at play on this one. Firstly, I like having a higher creature count. By removing a spell and adding a creature, I'm keeping aligned with that. I tend to not want to use a lot of cards that sit in my grave as Scrying fodder. I've had times where I would draw 1 or 2 off of a grave that is 6 cards deep due to potential grave shenanigans. Finally, upon testing Prophet I've come to the conclusion that this card is bonkers. It's so easy to get the City's Blessing that it's both draw and life gain/drain... win-win in my books.
Vampiric Tutor -> Razaketh, the Foulblooded: I know I said that I'm working on removing more tutors, yet here I am switching a tutor for a tutor. Well, our buddy Rza here, is more than just a tutor. He's a wonderful sac outlet. I've been wanting to get this bastard in here for that reason.

Thoughts
Diabolic Tutor, Diabolic Intent, Demonic Tutor: I'm more ok with keeping the Intent in as the sac requirement is rather useful. For now these will stay in as I test. If I still feel that I'm having to shuffle a bit still, I'll start by cutting Demonic then Diabolic Tutor. For now though I'm just notating that I'm keeping an eye on these
Sidisi, Undead Vizier, Rune-Scarred Demon, Razaketh, the Foul Blooded: I will most likely be leaving these in as I'm not opposed to some tutoring (2 of these 3 are combo pieces), but being repeatable (again, same 2 cards) I'm ok with skimming some more spell tutors down for card draw or other interesting cards.
Necropotence: while this card is only in due to me needing a filler card, it was been amazing. It doesn't really draw the hate that I suspected it would. Since I want to move away from tutors, this seems like it would likely find a home here in a tutor's slot.
Vampiric Rites: I'm considering adding this as I decide which Tutors I'm going to cut. It is both a sac outlet and card draw, all wrapped up in a nice 1 mana package. As Iso stated (I chat with this guy waaaay too much, no?), "I'd rather have lots of tiny draws for less consistency but more value." This seems like a "value" that Obby wants to abide by.

I'm still looking at cards to see if there are other quirky or interesting cards that I've missed.

"It's been a long time. How have you been?" ~GlaDOS

The deck itself changes very slightly, as the card changes are difficult to make. For me, this list is as tight as it can get due to the extensive testing I've (and iso) have put it through. Nevertheless, some changes are being made. Not many. (I'll update the OP with the deck list as it SHOULD be, not what I'm currently running).

Changes:
Crypt of Agadeem > Westvale Abbey: I've yet to play a game where the crypt makes more than a couple of mana. It's a good card in the right deck, unfortunately, this is not that deck. Not only does the Abbey make tokens, I can easily transform it to Ormendahl, Profane Prince.
Arcane Lighthouse > Homeward Path: The lighthouse was fantastic that one game a while back. Now, its just meh. My meta changed a bit since I was last there (lots more newer players). Creature theft is something I can't deal with outside of my 1 boardwipe. So, Path gives me the ability to regain control of my own critters. Yeah, I know, it does it for everyone. Still, this card is useful.
Cruel Tutor > Diabolic Intent: The more I thought about this swap, the more I realized that I needed to make it. Don't get me wrong, Tutor is great but being able to put the card in my hand is just better. Intent gives me an additional sac, to get Sidisi going, or just to find combo pieces. It's a stronger card, with no real drawback, so the swap was easy.
Shriekmaw > Noxious Gearhulk: This is one I've been considering since the Gearhulk was spoiled. While the Gearhulk is 1 more mana, it's ability to hit black and arty creatures is worth the added cost. I can't Evoke it like I could Shriekmaw, which I'm ok with as I rarely did that anyways, as I usually need the body anyway.

Testing:
I will say that the list I'm "running" is not the list I'm running. There are a couple of cards I'm missing to match up with this decklist, so it gives me a chance to test some cards out that I may not have considered. While I could just straight up purchase any card a need, I enjoy physically trading for all the parts. It allows me to be social, which is not one of my strongest attributes.
Nirkana Revenant > Sculpting Steel: I currently do not have the vamp, so testing Steel in its slot. Turning Steel into a Caged Sun one game. So yeaaaaah. Still, it will not be a permanent replacement.
Reanimate > Necropotence: The DethSkull! Necro is stupid good. This is the type of card I don't want to run as it paints a target on my back. With the newer players still learning, only the vets will understand the power here. The vets also leave me alone, as they know I play quirky decks ("Who wins a game with Near-Death Experinece?" ~guy at my LGS).
Vesuva > Lake of the Dead: Since I don't have a Vesuva, I figured now is a good time to test out the Lake. I've always loved the Lake. Ran it in my Mono-B Suicide deck many, MANY moons ago. Turning my swamps into psuedo-dark rituals seems fun. Will see how testing goes.

Considering:
Putting these here, as I don't want to forget about them
Deserted Temple - I like being able to reuse Coffers/Nykthos. This may be going in (added in without testing) after this round of testing. More like, when I can get my hands on one.
Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed - My issue is that if I lose my enchantments, the deck has a bit of a struggle. I really like that in this deck Xiahou is easily saccable/recurable. I like him a lot. I can't really come up with a reason to not put him in other than a monetary one. I may test with him since the Judge foil is not all that expensive.
Razaketh, the Foulblooded - Reusable sac outlet. There have been times where I needed just one more sacrifice to keep the engine running. This guy gives me the ability to keep going until I run out of mana or life. The tutor part is nice as it allows me to get combo pieces. His 8 mana cost, is a bit restrictive, even for this deck.
Torment of Hailfire - In a big mana deck, this card can easily get out of hand. I need to test further to make sure it is worth inclusion.
Vindictive Lich: This card has a low CMC and is easy to kill (Skullclamp much?). This also means that it is a great candidate for inclusion in the 99. I need to get one and test it. I like the multiple modes that can hit up to 3 targets (discard and critter sac being the better 2).

I feel that the locust God has too little of a board presence. We win outside of the attack phase, so the tokens are just chump blockers. Anything big enough to attack us will just rofl-stomp them. 4 mana to draw/pitch is not worth it. It's a really fun card, but I don't think it's worth the slot here.

petercal: I like what you are doing. I like the stone carving (v4)one. The one positive thing i have to say about the invocations (i'm not that much of a fan of them) is that they have nice, hard lines. The art doesn't overlap the border or fade into it. I would like to see the v4 layout get cleaner and sharper. Overall i'm a big fan of your minimalist layout.

Beautiful work, Galspanic. That Incinerate coverup is amazing. I'm actually trying to work out where you hid the original piece....the sickle's handle is the burning guy's upper arm, yes? Either way.... Amazing.

Textures look a bit weird, but overall nice. What did you use to make this? I used 3DS Max back in my school days... soooo long ago.

You might be able to "get away" with words and pictures that are common things, cat, snake, spirit, etc. It starts to get a bit murky when you begin to use their IP (layouts, imagery, fonts, etc). Keeping things VERY generic would help to keep you out of trouble (I'm not a lawyer, just making assumptions).

Not to mention... who's art are you using on your tokens? Unless you are creating your own artwork, that gives you another set of problems. As an artist, I would hate it if someone used my work without asking. More-so if they were making money off of it.

Quote from nickochoa212 »

Hello, what is the best template to use for making M15-style basic lands? I want to make ones like the C16 basic lands, but with different art. I've tried a few various templates from Kentu's folders, but they don't have the basic mana symbols that go in the text box. Thanks!

I believe that some of those templates require you to use a specific font that has the symbols as specific characters on the mapping. I'm not 100% sure where to find that font though.

Quote from Bolas, the Mindsculptor »

@serrot just wanna defend moysturizer abit here. I think what he meant is while the renders are nice when it's blown up, whether it appears as nice in card size is another. I believe official artists and Wizard's editors do that to see if the actually "fits" aesthetically.

I understand the need for those instances where printing (editors/artists) is needed, as the endgame is a printed card. The need to print something out to make sure it works at card sizes is unnecessary here as these are not intended for print. I don't want to promote an environment that lets that kind of talk thrive. I'd rather stop it before it becomes a problem.

Quote from Kentu »

Quote from Bolas, the Mindsculptor »

@kentu, the first ajani in your latest post is your best version IMO. Yup using the walker symbol as the loyalty box itself does wonders.

I feel the same way. The 3rd one is by far the best and most aesthetically pleasing. Just need to find time to hunt down a hi-res symbol and throw it in there.

Agreed. v3 is my favorite so far as well.

Quote from Kentu »

Quote from Kentu »

Thanks for the input. While I agree with you, I feel it's about breaking the standard mold. Doing renders that all for the most part identical to what's already available, I welcome a fresh new look and feel. To that end, that's I I changed and kept some things. To keep a sense of familiarity but rush of something new. Well, those are my thoughts anyway.

What do the rest of you all think? I guess I'll throw a poll here, lol. Share your thoughts and ideas, and have fun with this little poll.

Which do you prefer?

1. All about tradition!! Forget the new stuff!

2. Tradition!?, Bahumbog! Long live the strange and new!!

3. Don't really care... just here for renders.

4. Gimme both ;). I like tradition, but I also like fresh new ideas.

So far only 1 person responded/answered. I know you guys have some kinda of opinion about digital renders, otherwise you wouldn't be here, lol. I think if enough people shared their thoughts and opinions the community might get a better idea of what kind of renders are popular/requested versus those that flop or are 1 hit wonders. Throwing my hat into the ring, I would pick #4 cause I love tradition, but like to experiment as well.

Hmmm guess I forgot to respond to this. In any case, it seems that #4 is the best option thus far. I think that most people will fall in this category as we want the cards to still look like them, even if everything is completely different. It's that familiarity with a new thing that makes change a bit more easy.

Ok... I thought the symbol would be a bit much... I gotta say... I like it... Now to find a high res version to get sharp lines there.

Quote from Kentu »

So I tried out your suggestions, I kept the purple, but made it much lighter and softer along with the red and green.... using the mana colors as you mentioned. I integrated the PW symbol into the loyalty box not sure how it works but I think its kinda cool. What are your thoughts?

The colors are better for the loyalty boxes. I figured making the PW symbol larger to accommodate the number would be the best route, but after I posted I realized that idea is probably not a good one. I like what you did adding the symbol to the box. Unfortunately that makes the box too busy and you kinda lose the number a bit. Hmmmm.... just putting the starting loyalty like that just seems like that data could be missed..... I'll have to think on ideas for that. Still, I like it quite a bit.

Quote from Moysturizer »

@kentu, have you tried printing one out? At card size on my monitor, the Loyalty symbol with the graphic in the background is hard to read, as is the text.

Just so you know, these are not meant for printing purposes. Any discussion to the contrary will not be tolerated here.