I believe it will become a companion of Enlisted Wurm for the foreseeable future and when the 5cc craze starts to die down, the Baneslayers will still be one of the top finishers in the game.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Team NE Magic, retaking the Midwest one tournament at a time.
Actually, Pandemonium will still trigger for each of the tokens coming into play.
1. Baloth and 6 lands enter the battlefield (triggering Baloth)
2. Pandemonium enters the battlefield
3. Baloth triggers resolve (creating tokens)
4. Tokens cause Pandemonium to trigger
5. Damage = total power of all the tokens
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Team NE Magic, retaking the Midwest one tournament at a time.
In the RWu version, I think we have been overlooking Time Warp. I think using it to get another attack in or add another counter to Ajani Vengeant is amazing.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Team NE Magic, retaking the Midwest one tournament at a time.
A buddy of mine that runs mono red was playing against cruel control and his opponent tapped out on turn 7 to cast cruel ultimatum only to have it wild ricochet'd right back into his face twice. it was brutal. or should i say... cruel?
However, that only "half" works. It makes the copy which can target the person who played the Ultimatum, but the target of the original doesn't change (unless playing multi-player) because it says "Target Opponent".
I had this done to me when I played 5cc instead of Angelfire. I sac'd my Broodmate Dragon and lost life etc...then the original resolved and I got back Broodmate and drew cards. I really came out ahead when the whole stack finished resolving.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Team NE Magic, retaking the Midwest one tournament at a time.
What about manabase after rotation? We are gonna lose fetchlands, we do not have city. We are left only with Gemstone Mine and Gemstone Caverns which is not that good because we usually want to start.
We still have Watery Grave, Steam Vents, Blood Crypt, Dragonskull Summit, Chrome Mox and Drowned Catacombs. It may be a little less consistent, but I don't see a problem. Standard Dredge never had Fetch Lands or City of Brass either.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Team NE Magic, retaking the Midwest one tournament at a time.
I played the deck below at the PTQ in Kansas City (at the Nationals site). I started hot, but finished 43rd out of 240 players. Contrary to expectations, I never had mana / color issues. Here is how it played out:
Rd 1: W 2-0 vs. Jund Cascade Rd 2: W 2-0 vs. 5 Color Blood Rd 3: W 2-1 vs. 4 Color Cascade Rd 4: L 2-0 vs. Faeries (a real weakness for this deck) Rd 5: L 2-1 vs. Kithkin (He resolved Turn 2, 3 and 5 Honor of the Pure in game 3 and after I ran out of removal for his team he beat me around turn 20 with Cloudgoat Ranger) Rd 6: L 2-1 vs. Faeries Rd 7: W 2-0 vs. Mono-R Demigod Burn Rd 8: W 2-0 vs. Kithkin Rd 9: L 2-0 vs. R/G Haste Aggro (with Ball Lightning, Everlasting Torment, Ram-gang etc..)
I think with some extra answers to enchantments, I would have been 7-2 instead of 5-4. I still think UWR is the way to play AngelFire and these results pointed out some weaknesses to me. I believe that Fallouts should be MD and Firespouts in the SB. I think Austere Command is a valid option as well. So, check out the list below and give me your suggestions.
@Sarf, Thanks for the breakdown for me. I originally played this as 4 cc with green.
About the mana = I only play 7 vivids and the 3 Glacial Fortress tend to be untapped about 65% of the time. (I say "about" because I started counting and during testing gave up on it). So my mana doesn't come into play tapped as much as the 11-12 CIPT lands in 5cc.
The mana issues I have are more of the draw too many / draw too few over the first 3-4 turns to curve out properly.
So, I will report to the group about my results in the PTQ. Then after that I'll do a full comparison.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Team NE Magic, retaking the Midwest one tournament at a time.
It looks like you only have 56 cards (or 58 with the other 2 Tutors). You need a minimum of 60 to make a legal decklist.
Adding 2 Twincast is a good start. Max out the Mind Funeral to 4 as well as Dream Fracture. Remove the 2 Ornithopter for 2 more Jace (if you have access to them.)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Team NE Magic, retaking the Midwest one tournament at a time.
I'm playing the RUW version at a PTQ this Saturday in Kansas City because I have tested more with it. I'll start doing more testing with R/W next week.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Team NE Magic, retaking the Midwest one tournament at a time.
The 5cc match will be a problem because of the card draw that allows them to get to things like Cruel Ultimatum and Hallowed Burial to send our threat package away.
I am not too worried about facing down the Cryptics, but Gutteral Response is a pretty good answer to it.
Path is good for the Mulldrifters and Plumeveils, but the Broodmate Dragons are a more difficult enemy to face. Our angels are all also vulnerable to Doom Blade and Path.
I just think that 5 cc may be tough for the R/W only versions. I admit I have only tested against Kithkin with the R/W list, so I will require more information to make a final decision.
Has anyone done extensive testing against 5cc and 5cb?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Team NE Magic, retaking the Midwest one tournament at a time.
The last 2 versions of the deck seem to be excellent against the affro decks and Elf Combo, but what about 5 color control. I think the deck would be weak to them. That is why I did not remove the U from the deck.
Cryptic Command alone is strong here now that 5cc is back on the rise, but with card draw like Jace or Mulldrifter it may be the only way to combat the CA of the 5 color decks. Mana-base is not a problem even stretching to WUR. Here is my manabase presently:
I had a great time with M2010 at the pre-release. The most memorable match for me had the following happen in game 2.
I played U/W and my opponent was playing G/W. I put out 2 Veteran Armorsmith and Honor of the Pure during turns 2-4. My opponent played turn 1 Llanowar, turn 3 Veteran Swordsmith and turn 5 Captain of the Watch.
To break the stalemate, I played my top-decked Clone for the Captain of the Watch. Then the next turn I rip Mind Control, take the Captain and swing for lethal over the next 2 turns.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Team NE Magic, retaking the Midwest one tournament at a time.
Thanks for all the comments. I'll be testing with my play group this weekend and I'll let everyone know what comes out of that. I'll try the 4/5 color, B/G, B/W, and Jund colors. I should have a list up by Monday that has been fully tested against most of the "expected" meta post 2010.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Team NE Magic, retaking the Midwest one tournament at a time.
I like the G/Splash idea for Leech etc.. But then I will be watering down the Swamp count more.
Shriekmaw is additional removal + body and can become a Zombie with Rise. Rise can steal my opponent's dead stuff as well (that is why I chose it over Mannequin).
Spire = 2
Owl = 2
Bird = 4
Flying = 40
When = 37
Enters = 99
Battlefield = 143
Look = 3
At = 19
Top = 11
Four = 6
Cards = 27
Your = 141
Library = 52
Put = 80
Them = 7
Back =
In = 8
Any = 14
Order = 2
Actually the card is being played in several successful versions of the Cascade deck:
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29660
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29674
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=29780
I believe it will become a companion of Enlisted Wurm for the foreseeable future and when the 5cc craze starts to die down, the Baneslayers will still be one of the top finishers in the game.
1. Baloth and 6 lands enter the battlefield (triggering Baloth)
2. Pandemonium enters the battlefield
3. Baloth triggers resolve (creating tokens)
4. Tokens cause Pandemonium to trigger
5. Damage = total power of all the tokens
However, that only "half" works. It makes the copy which can target the person who played the Ultimatum, but the target of the original doesn't change (unless playing multi-player) because it says "Target Opponent".
I had this done to me when I played 5cc instead of Angelfire. I sac'd my Broodmate Dragon and lost life etc...then the original resolved and I got back Broodmate and drew cards. I really came out ahead when the whole stack finished resolving.
We still have Watery Grave, Steam Vents, Blood Crypt, Dragonskull Summit, Chrome Mox and Drowned Catacombs. It may be a little less consistent, but I don't see a problem. Standard Dredge never had Fetch Lands or City of Brass either.
Rd 1: W 2-0 vs. Jund Cascade
Rd 2: W 2-0 vs. 5 Color Blood
Rd 3: W 2-1 vs. 4 Color Cascade
Rd 4: L 2-0 vs. Faeries (a real weakness for this deck)
Rd 5: L 2-1 vs. Kithkin (He resolved Turn 2, 3 and 5 Honor of the Pure in game 3 and after I ran out of removal for his team he beat me around turn 20 with Cloudgoat Ranger)
Rd 6: L 2-1 vs. Faeries
Rd 7: W 2-0 vs. Mono-R Demigod Burn
Rd 8: W 2-0 vs. Kithkin
Rd 9: L 2-0 vs. R/G Haste Aggro (with Ball Lightning, Everlasting Torment, Ram-gang etc..)
I think with some extra answers to enchantments, I would have been 7-2 instead of 5-4. I still think UWR is the way to play AngelFire and these results pointed out some weaknesses to me. I believe that Fallouts should be MD and Firespouts in the SB. I think Austere Command is a valid option as well. So, check out the list below and give me your suggestions.
About the mana = I only play 7 vivids and the 3 Glacial Fortress tend to be untapped about 65% of the time. (I say "about" because I started counting and during testing gave up on it). So my mana doesn't come into play tapped as much as the 11-12 CIPT lands in 5cc.
The mana issues I have are more of the draw too many / draw too few over the first 3-4 turns to curve out properly.
So, I will report to the group about my results in the PTQ. Then after that I'll do a full comparison.
Adding 2 Twincast is a good start. Max out the Mind Funeral to 4 as well as Dream Fracture. Remove the 2 Ornithopter for 2 more Jace (if you have access to them.)
I am not too worried about facing down the Cryptics, but Gutteral Response is a pretty good answer to it.
Path is good for the Mulldrifters and Plumeveils, but the Broodmate Dragons are a more difficult enemy to face. Our angels are all also vulnerable to Doom Blade and Path.
I just think that 5 cc may be tough for the R/W only versions. I admit I have only tested against Kithkin with the R/W list, so I will require more information to make a final decision.
Has anyone done extensive testing against 5cc and 5cb?
Cryptic Command alone is strong here now that 5cc is back on the rise, but with card draw like Jace or Mulldrifter it may be the only way to combat the CA of the 5 color decks. Mana-base is not a problem even stretching to WUR. Here is my manabase presently:
4 Vivid Creek
4 Reflecting Pool
3 Cascade Bluffs
1 Rugged Prairie
1 Mystic Gate
3 Glacial Fortress
3 Plains
3 Island
1 Gargoyle Castle
Here is the rest of the MD:
4 Cryptic Command
2 Broken Ambitions
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Volcanic Fallout
3 Path to Exile
3 Hallowed Burial
1 Banefire
3 Baneslayer Angel
3 Guardian Seraph
3 Plumeveil
4 Mulldrifter
1 Bogardan Hellkite
2 Silence
2 Ajani Vengeant
3 Negate
2 Runed Halo
2 Pithing Needle
1 Planar Cleansing
1 Hallowed Burial
1 Path to Exile
1 Volcanic Fallout
I played U/W and my opponent was playing G/W. I put out 2 Veteran Armorsmith and Honor of the Pure during turns 2-4. My opponent played turn 1 Llanowar, turn 3 Veteran Swordsmith and turn 5 Captain of the Watch.
To break the stalemate, I played my top-decked Clone for the Captain of the Watch. Then the next turn I rip Mind Control, take the Captain and swing for lethal over the next 2 turns.
Shriekmaw is additional removal + body and can become a Zombie with Rise. Rise can steal my opponent's dead stuff as well (that is why I chose it over Mannequin).
Warren Weirding was my choice to deal with Chameleon Colossus and Great Sable Stag