Hey guys, i've been tinkering with MBC as well, and would like to get an idea of a good T3 spell. Right now i've been testing Liliana of the Veil but reading the previous posts from kensanity and ben delat, seems you are correct with liliana. I'm a bit torn since Liliana has always been a strong threat against control and like a fog effect against aggro. Any suggestions? Here is my current decklist :
I aggree with the sorin markov comment that he wasnt competitive before since there was no deck that could run him correctly. Obviously with UB, they'd rather run U pwalkers instead of sorin at 6cmc. however with MBC, he fits since he can be a wincon against control and delays aggro heavily with the +2 life and +2 planeswalker counters.
13 Planeswalker
3 Liliana of the veil
3 gideon Jura
3 Sorin, Lord of innistrad
2 Elspeth Tirel
2 Chandra Firebrand
Other Spells
4 Faithless looting
4 Day of Judgement
4 Lingering Souls
3 Tragic slip
3 Oblivion ring
2 tezzeret's gambit
1 Go for the throat
1 dismember
Hi! really interested with POD decks, but i have a question with consistency. I have been testing on MWS for some time now, what do you do when you dont get birthing pod on the first draw? do you mull? Here is the list i have been testing:
Total Cards: (61)
Land (24):
4 Swamp
6 Forest
2 Plains
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Sunpetal Grove
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Marsh Flats
NonCreatures (9):
4 Birthing Pod
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Doom Blade
Hey, thanks for the reply. Vengevine and Bloodghast both give UB and Grixis Control problems, but Grixis has access to Thought Hemorrhage, whereas UB has to rely on Haunting Echoes or Suffer the Past, and I'd rather be pro-active in taking them out before they have a chance. Sadistic Sacrament is an option and could be useful in other match-ups, however, most decks run VV/Ghast as 4-Ofs I believe.
As far as fast aggro goes, Grixis has Earthquake/Lightning Bolt/Terminate or even Pyroclasm to protect itself for the first few turns. UB has Inquisition/Mana Leak/Infest? To be fair, Grixis will usually be playing CiPT lands for the first few turns, so it may take a swing or two from Goblin Guide. Also, Cruel Ultimatum is the best spell in Standard still. It's very hard to come back from, and it usually just makes people want to move on to game2.
As far as Blightning/Sedraxis Specter being a double-edged sword, it's a tough call that comes down to your meta. Discard wrecks Control and messes up a lot of other decks. However, if your meta has a lot of Vengevine decks, you'd do well to cut them for something else. Bloodghast isn't had to work around barring a Nocturnus, and Obstinate Baloth is just a speed-bump.
Turn5 at best.
Again, I do agree with you that Grixis has more ways to deal with these decks. 3 colors > 2 colors in card choices. But, as I said before, it depends on your play style. UB plays a more draw go and has a more stable mana base compared to UBR. Its also less susceptible to LD and opens up a more relaxed land base with more basics, tectonic edge, etc.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy UB Control and I think it could have a niche. However, this deck, for now at least, seems like a poor-man's Grixis Control. It gives up the massive amount of removal and 2-for-1s of Sedraxis Specter/Blightning/Cruel Ultimatum in exchange for more permission spells, which I'm not sure is that great of a trade-off. With all the mana ramping decks going around right now, Mana Leak as the main form of a counter seldom gets the job done after turn 3. While White has PtE/O-Ring/DoJ, we're stuck with comparatively sub-par Black removal, which suffers without the red-splash for Terminate/Lightning Bolt for when something inevitably gets on the board.
What would you guys say that UB excels against that Grixis has problems with?
Well, I'd have to agree with you that Grixis has more card advantage/better 2 for 1s compared to UB. Yes, Sedraxis specter is awesome to have (since it wrecks UW control matches). However, Blightning & Sedraxis now became a double edged sword against aggro matches (especially decks with vengevine). Without blightning and specter, running RED is not worth screwing up the mana base. Also, with UB, there is less pressure on the manabase since running 2 colors > 3 colors. I guess that running UB also enables you to run a lot of counters if you like that kind of play.
I believe that UB has the same problems with Grixis in dealing with vengevine decks and fast aggro decks (RDW, Boros etc.) although I'm not 100% sure since I have not piloted a grixis deck post-m11.
Creatures:
-Sea Gate Oracle: Pretty bad over all as a creature. It does give you a card and some card choice which is great, but 9/10 times, its a chump blocker. Valuable on turn 3, not on turn 7.
Counters:
-This one was tough. It really depended on who I was playing against. Against control decks, I never want to see essence scatter, and some times, I had too many non-creature counters in the form of spell pierce, negate, and counterquall. Spell pierce was amazing though, especially with frost titan who, against control, I would tutor quite often with vess.
Removal:
-Assassinate was really great, especially against KOTR since I would often cast it after they paid the activation cost, and before the ability resolved.
-All is dust, and it came out in almost every match accept against control.
Other spells:
-Jace TMS: Well, you know...he is always terrible. Never want to see him, and never want to have him out for very long...:)
Creatures:
Sea Gate Oracle I think is better when used with Elspeth since you get a free 4/3 beater that cantrips. However, more often than not, we have the same conclusion with him. Although sometimes, you could treat him as a delay effect, sort of a wall that dies to blocks once. Might not be worth the slot in usual UB decks.
Counters:
In normal circumstances, I think all other counter spells you have are too situational so Mana leak/deprive would have to do for standard. I see you tested frost giant. How was he against aggro decks?
Removal:
Just have to remind you that assassinate is sorcery speed so....
I'm curious how All is Dust was used. I was certain it would be a key card against control matches especially planeswalkers and enchantments since UB has a difficult time handling those that do get through. Maybe you just drew it against aggro decks?
So I went to a tournament tonight, and took home first prize (hint hint, it was a foil anathemancer...lol). You can laugh when you see the list, but before you do, let me tell you a little something. I like to mix up and mess around at small tournaments. I play stupid mind games with people like showing them random cards from my hand, telling them my deck, or telling them what I have in my hand. Now, I will never screw myself over, or ruin a surprise play I am trying to make, but I will show someone the removal spell right as they are about to attack, and such. Usually when there isn't much they can do about it. Now, I will lie sometimes too, but for the most part, they think I am lying so its pretty funny. I also like to mess around with my deck putting in cards that obviously don't go in the deck, funny cards that you wouldn't normally play, but make your opponents do funny things. This tournament, I decided to mix up the list a bit to try and challenge myself. So, I made the list into a highlander deck. That said, I ran out of time while I was doing it, and couldn't find the last few cards, so I few in a couple random ones, and 2 more jace TMS. So this is the list:
The tournament wasn't anything special. I beat jund in the finals which was the only match of note. The rest were homebrews and bad versions of good decks. I did side out jace a few times because of aggro and blightning. Anyways, the reason I am posting is because I wanted some input, and what people think of the list.
First off, KUDOS for your balls to play with playing highlander. Its always good to see that sometimes fun can also get you somewhere.
What i think about the insight from your decklist is that I believe that you were able to get the right number for each of the kinds of spells. Like you noted, you have X number of cards that do Y. So would you mind telling us how you found the 1-off cards to handle? Some of the cards you used can be used in a normal standard format like AID, Frost titan, etc.
@ctaylor: I think that having MD of both cards will change how your game play. From draw go, you go to a more tap out control. IMO, having those 6 slots MD, I think makes Mana Leak becomes a bad choice.
@dementia: How was the singleton crystal ball? Was it worth the slot? I'm currently testing Sorin Markov and I think that he is worth the 1-off slot. I'm wondering if Sorin < Crystal Ball.
I'm not sure why anybody is scared of Great Sable Stag. He is a poor, narrow sideboard choice that nobody is running right now. If they are, he is easily outraced and you have plenty of answers, gatekeeper and consuming vapors. Even without answers he only does 3 damage a turn. Persecutor, snapper, Titan all out race him and nighthawk slows him down quite considerably.
+1. Black already has a lot of answers for Great Sable Stag. And to think there aren't a lot of decks boarding him in considering Wall of Omens is now a staple card. IMO, Great Sable Stag is not one of the biggest threats UB faces.
Cheers
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4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Bloodline Keeper
1 Bloodgift Demon
4 Duress
3 Tragic Slip
1 Dismember
4 Sign in Blood
2 Doom Blade
2 Distress
1 Go for the Throat
2 Liliana of the Veil
4 Mutilate
2 Lashwrithe
2 Increasing Ambition
1 Sorin Markov
1 Karn Liberated
I aggree with the sorin markov comment that he wasnt competitive before since there was no deck that could run him correctly. Obviously with UB, they'd rather run U pwalkers instead of sorin at 6cmc. however with MBC, he fits since he can be a wincon against control and delays aggro heavily with the +2 life and +2 planeswalker counters.
Has anyone tested bloodline keeper? How is he?
Any help on my deck. Been testing around 15 games, won about 10 games. but just via MWS.
20 Swamp
4 Phyrexia's Core
Creatures (7):
4 Vampire Nighthawk
2 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Wurmcoil Engine
4 Duress
4 Sign in Blood
2 Tragic Slip
2 Doom Blade
1 Dismember
4 Sphere of the Sun
2 Trading Post
2 Increasing Ambition
1 Sorin Markov
1 Spine of Ish Sah
2 Lashwrithe
4 Mutilate
This deck, in my opinion is a simple control deck with toolbox answers (thanks to increasing ambition and trading post). Any feedback is welcome
25 lands:
4 Isolated chapel
4 Dragonskull summit
4 Clifftop retreat
4 Evolving wild
1 swamp
5 mountain
3 plains
13 Planeswalker
3 Liliana of the veil
3 gideon Jura
3 Sorin, Lord of innistrad
2 Elspeth Tirel
2 Chandra Firebrand
Other Spells
4 Faithless looting
4 Day of Judgement
4 Lingering Souls
3 Tragic slip
3 Oblivion ring
2 tezzeret's gambit
1 Go for the throat
1 dismember
Thoughts?
Total Cards: (61)
Land (24):
4 Swamp
6 Forest
2 Plains
2 Stirring Wildwood
2 Sunpetal Grove
4 Verdant Catacomb
4 Marsh Flats
NonCreatures (9):
4 Birthing Pod
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Doom Blade
Creatures (28):
CMC1 (6): 4 Birds of Paradise, 2 Llanowar Elves
CMC2 (8): 1 Skinshifter, 1 Lone Missionary, 1 Leonin Relic-Warrior, 1 Wall of Omens, 1 Fauna Shaman, 3 Viridian Emissiary
CMC3 (4): 3 Blade Splicer, 1 Viridian Corruptor
CMC4 (4): 1 Skinrender, 1 Obstinate Baloth, 2 Entomb Exarch
CMC5 (3): 2 Acidic Slime, 1 Archon of Justice
CMC6 (3): 1 Grave Titan, 1 Sun Titan, 1 Wurmcoil Engine
No idea yet for SB, right now i have a tad difficulty with all types of decks unless I am able to do T2/T3 Birthing Pod. Any advice for SB? Thanks
Cheers
Again, I do agree with you that Grixis has more ways to deal with these decks. 3 colors > 2 colors in card choices. But, as I said before, it depends on your play style. UB plays a more draw go and has a more stable mana base compared to UBR. Its also less susceptible to LD and opens up a more relaxed land base with more basics, tectonic edge, etc.
Cheers
Well, I'd have to agree with you that Grixis has more card advantage/better 2 for 1s compared to UB. Yes, Sedraxis specter is awesome to have (since it wrecks UW control matches). However, Blightning & Sedraxis now became a double edged sword against aggro matches (especially decks with vengevine). Without blightning and specter, running RED is not worth screwing up the mana base. Also, with UB, there is less pressure on the manabase since running 2 colors > 3 colors. I guess that running UB also enables you to run a lot of counters if you like that kind of play.
I believe that UB has the same problems with Grixis in dealing with vengevine decks and fast aggro decks (RDW, Boros etc.) although I'm not 100% sure since I have not piloted a grixis deck post-m11.
Just my 2 cent.
Cheers:cheers:
Creatures:
Sea Gate Oracle I think is better when used with Elspeth since you get a free 4/3 beater that cantrips. However, more often than not, we have the same conclusion with him. Although sometimes, you could treat him as a delay effect, sort of a wall that dies to blocks once. Might not be worth the slot in usual UB decks.
Counters:
In normal circumstances, I think all other counter spells you have are too situational so Mana leak/deprive would have to do for standard. I see you tested frost giant. How was he against aggro decks?
Removal:
Just have to remind you that assassinate is sorcery speed so....
I'm curious how All is Dust was used. I was certain it would be a key card against control matches especially planeswalkers and enchantments since UB has a difficult time handling those that do get through. Maybe you just drew it against aggro decks?
Cheers
Other spells:
Jace sux.
First off, KUDOS for your balls to play with playing highlander. Its always good to see that sometimes fun can also get you somewhere.
What i think about the insight from your decklist is that I believe that you were able to get the right number for each of the kinds of spells. Like you noted, you have X number of cards that do Y. So would you mind telling us how you found the 1-off cards to handle? Some of the cards you used can be used in a normal standard format like AID, Frost titan, etc.
Cheers
Cheers
Cheers
+1. Black already has a lot of answers for Great Sable Stag. And to think there aren't a lot of decks boarding him in considering Wall of Omens is now a staple card. IMO, Great Sable Stag is not one of the biggest threats UB faces.
Cheers