Thanks cause i saw one player today use farseek to fetch a dual land card hmm or maybe im mistaken but there was no basic land card on the table heheheh
Farseek says:
Search your library for a Plains, Island, Swamp, or Mountain card ...
Some dual lands like Temple Garden count as 2 types of basic land - Forest and Plains in this case. So Farseek can be used to fetch Temple Garden.
Is it really that bad? Functionally, it has 3 abilities:
{T}: Add {1} to your mana pool.
{3}, {T}, Return Maze's End to its owner's hand: Search your library for a Gate card, put it onto the battlefield, then shuffle your library.
If you control ten or more Gates with different names, you win the game.
I'll agree that the 3rd ability is more useful in a fun deck built around the card. But the 2nd ability basically lets you tutor for a Gate, much like an uncounterable Gatecreeper Vine. Once the price drops, it could be potentially useful in really cheap budget multi-colour (probably control) decks.
hi im new here and want to know whats the meaning of the ff: aggro, control, tempo, midrange... and other things you call on a deck? sorry if im out of topic you can give me a direction also ü im an old player before who plays a red blaster, white winnie, LD's etc...
I still have this options: (as my avialable cards)
4 Thunderbolt
4 Skullcrack
4 Clan Defiance
4 Frenzied Tilling
4 Borderland Ranger
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim (substitute to Llanowar Elves)
4 Arbor Elf
4 Rolling Temblor
**need tips on what to put and how to improve or revise ü ty....
Try this thread for ideas. A few people posted their Land Destruction decks with some basic explanations of their card choices.
I would like it if there was a dedicated sticky about how to improve pre-constructed intro decks from a Budget standpoint. It would be useful, since I bought pretty much one of each guild during RTR and GTC.
Closest thing we have to that right now is Shinbatsu's IPTP Budget Challenge. No actual instructions, but lots of people posting their improved intro decks, with some explanations of why they made their changes.
Hi, does anybody can point me out to a good mill deck? am looking for one that uses the Consuming Aberration ,Wight of Precinct Six, Mind Grind and maybe using the dimir champ in the future, i just want to try it out on a budget version first. Thanxs
Shinbatsu's Dimir Shadow Onslaught deck should be a good starting point. There are only 2 CAs in it now, and no Wight or Mind Grind, but it should be easy enough to modify to swap these extra cards in.
I edited the post with some playstyle info. The short version is, if you're getting killed on turn 5-6, it's because you didn't start hitting for Lifelink damage early enough. There's 8 sources of Lifelink in the deck; there's no need to save one. I try to Gift on turn 3 or Mark on turn 4 almost regardless of what else is going on on the board, because that early Lifelink beatdown is key to living long enough to set up bigger threats on turns 7-9.
Yes, that sounds a lot more reasonable than what I was doing. That said, if I were to try this deck again, I would probably increase the Swamps to 20. I've had a number of games where the 3rd Swamp only comes in on T5, T6 or T7. If I do this, what would you recommend dropping to fit in the 2 extra Swamps?
BTW, given your explanation, I assume that I should only keep a hand which has at least 2 Swamps, 2 Unblockable creatures that can be played on T1 and/or T2, and 1 Gift or Mark?
Wow, that's basically the opposite of my experience. Maybe it's a playstyle difference? I'm generally willing to not chump block unless the alternative is dying, because I know that as soon as I hit 4 lands for Mark/Gift, I can start racing their damage with unblockable Exalted lifelink. I actually see the Liches as the deck's answer to midrange and control -- it has always handled aggro just fine IMX.
I also mulligan fairly aggressively -- down to four I unless I see at least two land in the opener.
That said, taking out one Tortured Soul and one Thrull Parasite for 2 more Swamps wouldn't meaningfully affect your ability to have an early game, so maybe it's a good call.
Definitely sounds like a difference in play-style. I usually mull if I don't have at least 2 lands of the right colour, but otherwise keep the hand. I also only mull to 5 cards, at worst, because I find most 4-card hands totally unplayable, regardless of deck - too many of my 4-card hands end up with 4 land or 0 land.
I find that even Standard Pauper (i.e. all-commons) aggro decks can consistently kill on T5/T6, and sometimes as fast as T4. It means Lich has to come out on T3 or T4 consistently to do any good. Unfortunately, for me, the ideal play of T2 artifact, T3 Lich, T4 Lifelink spell almost never happens. I often can't play Lich until T5, T6 or even later. That means I have to chump block to try and buy time until Lich comes out.
I'll admit that I may not be playing the deck correctly. Perhaps you could update your post to show some of the correct lines of play? At the very least, it may help if you add the mulliganing strategy.
my gut says you need more artifacts. Keyrunes would be ok, but really you want things you could play turn 2. Ring of Xathrid might be interesting
I have to agree. It also needs more Swamps. Play-tested this deck against a few Standard Pauper aggro decks, and it auto-loses unless we can get an early Lich out. While getting a Lich in hand by T5 happened reasonably often, I often did not have the 3 Swamps or artifact needed to cast it.
Your deck (in the OP) seems weak against combo - too slow to kill them before they go off, yet without counters or enough hand destruction to stop their critical spells. Of course, this may not matter in your meta.
Are 4 Crypt Ghasts enough ramp? I don't have much experience or success playing control decks, but I've played a good bit of mono green ramp into fatty decks. In my experience, running 4 Arbor Elf, 4 Avacyn's Pilgrim, 4 Scorned Villager, 4 Gatecreeper Vine, 4 Borderland Ranger on 20 Forests only lets me play my 6-cmc fatties on T4/T5 only about half the time. In my mid-ranged decks, 4 Arbor Elf and 4 Avacyn's Pilgrim on 24 Forests only lets me play my 5-cmc fatties on T4/T5 about half the time. Even with 4 Sign in Blood, I suspect your deck is too slow.
With 24 Swamps, Liliana's Shade may be a good mana sink and mid/late-game beater. It also guarantees your land-drops and serves as a way to thin your deck for pseudo card advantage. If your budget permits, Liliana of the Dark Realms might also be something to think about.
If burn spells aren't big in your meta, Warden of the Wall is something to think about. On your turn, it is a mana dork. On your opponent's turn, it is a 2/3 flying blocker.
Regarding card advantage: other than Bloodgift Demon and Staff of Nin, Pack Rat also offers card advantage - letting you drop extra Swamps and useless spells to make more rats. Skirsdag High Priest and Bloodline Keeper are token generators. Veilborn Ghoul and Dark Revenant also offer a form of card advantage by returning to your hand from the graveyard.
Playing Pack Rat together with Ravenous Rats is probably good. Ravenous Rats gives you additional disruption, always good when you are playing control. It is also a chump blocker. And it pumps Pack Rat when played early, and can be used to create more Pack Rats when discarded late game.
Shrieking Affliction could be good against aggro decks. It also synergizes well with hand destruction spells. Whether or not you play Shrieking Affliction, I feel that you need more hand destruction spells. After all, these are an MBC deck's best way of saying "No!" to your opponent.
Just looking over this list, it occurs to me that Precinct Captain is almost a win-more card. Maybe Fiend Hunter? Are there any other good whities with an ETB effect that would love Cloudshift/Primadox?
Off the top of my head, here are some potential useful creatures with ETB effects:
I can understand the desire to do something right from T1, but IMO, running just 4 1-drops is not going to do you much good unless you are playing them as spells on a stick, e.g. Cathedral Sanctifier or Legion Loyalist.
Frankly, I would also prefer Pyreheart Wolf over Fervent Cathar. +3 Wolf, -2 Cathar, -1 Madcap Skills should improve the evasion of your creatures a lot more.
BTW, if I counted right, you have 61 cards in your main deck?
Anyway, with 24 land, I strongly suggest you try to find some space to put in a mana sink or some kind of spell with a looting/card-filtering effect. Examples would be Faithless Looting, Rogue's Passage, Slayers' Stronghold, etc.
The Boros Keyrune is also an interesting possibility. Not only is it an accelerator to play your fatter creatures earlier, it is a mana-sink that transforms into a Double Strike creature later in the game. If you choose to add this to your deck, maybe you can try dropping your lands down to 22 or 23.
Drop Hellrider for Lobber Crew? Great synergy with Lookout, and slightly easier to cast than Hellrider, not to mention the 4-toughness that puts them out of reach of most burn spells and allows them to block many aggro creatures without dying.
How about Bond Beetle in place of either Arbor Elf or Slitherhead? His ETB effect gives you a +1/+1 counter, then you can chump block with his 0/1 body to fill the graveyard for Boneyard Wurm. Worst case, you can play him as a 1/2 body for 1-cmc.
Your Veilborn Ghoul trick is nice.
How about fitting Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord in there somewhere? I've played against him, and he enabled combat tricks that beat me. Seems like he has some synergy with your Troll, Wurm and Ghoul (pump them, beat face with them, then pay 1BG to Fling them for the win.
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Farseek says:
Some dual lands like Temple Garden count as 2 types of basic land - Forest and Plains in this case. So Farseek can be used to fetch Temple Garden.
I'll agree that the 3rd ability is more useful in a fun deck built around the card. But the 2nd ability basically lets you tutor for a Gate, much like an uncounterable Gatecreeper Vine. Once the price drops, it could be potentially useful in really cheap budget multi-colour (probably control) decks.
Here are some resources to look at:
Try this thread for ideas. A few people posted their Land Destruction decks with some basic explanations of their card choices.
Closest thing we have to that right now is Shinbatsu's IPTP Budget Challenge. No actual instructions, but lots of people posting their improved intro decks, with some explanations of why they made their changes.
Shinbatsu's Dimir Shadow Onslaught deck should be a good starting point. There are only 2 CAs in it now, and no Wight or Mind Grind, but it should be easy enough to modify to swap these extra cards in.
Yes, that sounds a lot more reasonable than what I was doing. That said, if I were to try this deck again, I would probably increase the Swamps to 20. I've had a number of games where the 3rd Swamp only comes in on T5, T6 or T7. If I do this, what would you recommend dropping to fit in the 2 extra Swamps?
BTW, given your explanation, I assume that I should only keep a hand which has at least 2 Swamps, 2 Unblockable creatures that can be played on T1 and/or T2, and 1 Gift or Mark?
Definitely sounds like a difference in play-style. I usually mull if I don't have at least 2 lands of the right colour, but otherwise keep the hand. I also only mull to 5 cards, at worst, because I find most 4-card hands totally unplayable, regardless of deck - too many of my 4-card hands end up with 4 land or 0 land.
I find that even Standard Pauper (i.e. all-commons) aggro decks can consistently kill on T5/T6, and sometimes as fast as T4. It means Lich has to come out on T3 or T4 consistently to do any good. Unfortunately, for me, the ideal play of T2 artifact, T3 Lich, T4 Lifelink spell almost never happens. I often can't play Lich until T5, T6 or even later. That means I have to chump block to try and buy time until Lich comes out.
I'll admit that I may not be playing the deck correctly. Perhaps you could update your post to show some of the correct lines of play? At the very least, it may help if you add the mulliganing strategy.
I have to agree. It also needs more Swamps. Play-tested this deck against a few Standard Pauper aggro decks, and it auto-loses unless we can get an early Lich out. While getting a Lich in hand by T5 happened reasonably often, I often did not have the 3 Swamps or artifact needed to cast it.
Are 4 Crypt Ghasts enough ramp? I don't have much experience or success playing control decks, but I've played a good bit of mono green ramp into fatty decks. In my experience, running 4 Arbor Elf, 4 Avacyn's Pilgrim, 4 Scorned Villager, 4 Gatecreeper Vine, 4 Borderland Ranger on 20 Forests only lets me play my 6-cmc fatties on T4/T5 only about half the time. In my mid-ranged decks, 4 Arbor Elf and 4 Avacyn's Pilgrim on 24 Forests only lets me play my 5-cmc fatties on T4/T5 about half the time. Even with 4 Sign in Blood, I suspect your deck is too slow.
With 24 Swamps, Liliana's Shade may be a good mana sink and mid/late-game beater. It also guarantees your land-drops and serves as a way to thin your deck for pseudo card advantage. If your budget permits, Liliana of the Dark Realms might also be something to think about.
If burn spells aren't big in your meta, Warden of the Wall is something to think about. On your turn, it is a mana dork. On your opponent's turn, it is a 2/3 flying blocker.
Regarding card advantage: other than Bloodgift Demon and Staff of Nin, Pack Rat also offers card advantage - letting you drop extra Swamps and useless spells to make more rats. Skirsdag High Priest and Bloodline Keeper are token generators. Veilborn Ghoul and Dark Revenant also offer a form of card advantage by returning to your hand from the graveyard.
Playing Pack Rat together with Ravenous Rats is probably good. Ravenous Rats gives you additional disruption, always good when you are playing control. It is also a chump blocker. And it pumps Pack Rat when played early, and can be used to create more Pack Rats when discarded late game.
Shrieking Affliction could be good against aggro decks. It also synergizes well with hand destruction spells. Whether or not you play Shrieking Affliction, I feel that you need more hand destruction spells. After all, these are an MBC deck's best way of saying "No!" to your opponent.
Off the top of my head, here are some potential useful creatures with ETB effects:
White
Cathedral Sanctifier: gain 3 life
Loyal Cathar: after he dies and becomes transformed, bounce him back to replay him
Healer of the Pride: bounce another creature back to your hand, then re-play it to gain 2 life
Goldnight Redeemer: When Goldnight Redeemer enters the battlefield, you gain 2 life for each other creature you control.
Selesnya
Centaur Healer: gain 3 life
Green
Strangleroot Geist: bounce Geist back to your hand every time he picks up an Undying counter to make him practically immortal.
Champion of Lambholt: bounce and re-play another creature to grow him/her.
Gatecreeper Vine, Borderland Ranger: bounce and re-play them to pick up another land and thin your deck.
Frankly, I would also prefer Pyreheart Wolf over Fervent Cathar. +3 Wolf, -2 Cathar, -1 Madcap Skills should improve the evasion of your creatures a lot more.
BTW, if I counted right, you have 61 cards in your main deck?
Anyway, with 24 land, I strongly suggest you try to find some space to put in a mana sink or some kind of spell with a looting/card-filtering effect. Examples would be Faithless Looting, Rogue's Passage, Slayers' Stronghold, etc.
The Boros Keyrune is also an interesting possibility. Not only is it an accelerator to play your fatter creatures earlier, it is a mana-sink that transforms into a Double Strike creature later in the game. If you choose to add this to your deck, maybe you can try dropping your lands down to 22 or 23.
Use Oblivion Ring to get rid of Blood Artists without killing them. Use Pacifism against the other creatures when Blood Artist is on the board.
An alternative to Mugging could be Nightbird's Clutches. Affects 2 enemy creatures at once, and has flashback for re-use when the game goes longer.
Another big double strike creature is the GTC Wrecking Ogre. Don't know if you missed him.
In a dual-coloured deck, Stonewright may not be such a good choice. You can't really maximize his pump ability.
Drop Hellrider for Lobber Crew? Great synergy with Lookout, and slightly easier to cast than Hellrider, not to mention the 4-toughness that puts them out of reach of most burn spells and allows them to block many aggro creatures without dying.
Your Veilborn Ghoul trick is nice.
How about fitting Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord in there somewhere? I've played against him, and he enabled combat tricks that beat me. Seems like he has some synergy with your Troll, Wurm and Ghoul (pump them, beat face with them, then pay 1BG to Fling them for the win.