If your mainboard plan has a heavy dedication to Supreme Verdict for value I'd play two in the board. If you're racing this card seems pretty fantastic, and merits testing. I'd say Azorius Charm is a little better, overall. This is certainly awesome against hexproof decks, and Thundermaw being dealt with is a big game. Snapcaster Mage and Feeling of Dread decks will love it. "I tap down your two smaller threats" is a huge tell, but it can be used as a clever bluff as well...
Don't forget that you can use it after combat damage goes through to be more selective about it at the cost of a few life points, when trading off a creature for example. Is there a point where you can cast this after Geist of Saint Traft angel goes away?
I am playing the geist variant of UWR and I agree with Azorius Charm being better since it can mess up their next draw and is a huge tempo swing.
It does seem awesome against hexproof decks since they only swing with only 1 creature most of the time.
Has anyone had success using ral zarek with geist of saint traft and boros reckoner? Obviously lightning bolt as a minus ability is powerful, but I think even his plus ability has a lot of merit too as it helps geist of saint traft get through blockers, gives reckoner vigilance, and can untap mana for unsummon. Here's my list:
looks good on paper, but only testing will tell if it actually has the reach and synergy necessary to push through midrange, survive aggro, and overwhelm control (;
Everyone focuses on the pyre harvest/reckoner combo, but here's a quick shout out to the oft forgotten reckoner/charms combo, as it still just randomly wins you games by gaining infinite life. And it really isn't too uncommon as I'm running a playset of each card except boros charm.
I'd love to hear some feedback though from other players who have tested ral zarek in similar geist/tempo builds. Is he worth the spot?
There was a similar deck to yours that did well in the latest SCG Open. I don't know his record or what he played against but he said that Ral Zarek was very good for him.
On the topic of the 50K, I noticed some interesting things from the top two lists.
3 Restoration Angel, which seems right. 4 copies has just been seeming like it is just too much lately. As a 4 drop I always feel like I am struggling for air and time to actually make it to 4 mana and beyond against aggro.
The guy also ran 3 thundermaw hellkite. Wouldn't that be a bit tougher against aggro since it costs 5 mana?
I fail to see how essence scatter is better than syncopate... I'd rather put 4 syncopate in the MD then a single essence scatter. Here is why:
Early game: Syncopate rules the day. The exile effect out classes the essence scatter one. Your opponent will be casting things with very little mana left over. Syncopate is the #1 counterspell early game. Essence scatter does well here, don't get me wrong, but syncopate is just better.
Mid game: Syncopate is still decent but loses an edge due to the possibility of mana being open. Dissipate does well to cover that though. The only argument for essence scatter would be here, but I still feel syncopate can handle Mid Game just fine.
Late game: Negate and Dissipate are the winners here. Essence scatter is overrated late game. I'm playing a control deck, thus I have either better late game creatures/win conditions than my opponent or have an answer for any of his outside of counterspell. Go ahead and cast thragtusk on turn 7... My olivia will take control of it next turn... Rakdos Keyrune is out, see if I care about thragtusk... etc. But the main issue I find against most decks is their answers to our late game threats. You almost must have negate in your MD to keep your threats safe.
Dissipate is the best counterspell we have, but the prohibitive mana cost (2 blue) means I will only have one in the MD.
Now I do plan to have essence scatter in my side to board in (Scatter for Negates) against decks that won't have answers for my threats (Some green decks come to mind).
At first, I thought the same thing. But after some testing, I found it to be a solid card since most of the decks in my meta are creature based.
It is less mana intensive and lets you do things on your turn, like play Keyrune on turn 4 and have mana up for essence scatter and the next turn play a jace or olivia and have mana up to counter a creature if you have to.
I'm not saying that it is better than syncopate or dissipate but it does the job.
Here is kidtwist's explanation on what essence scatter does. He explains it quite well.
Essence Scatter at the moment is doing one job and that's getting rid of Thragtusk/Angel of Serenity/Falkenrath Aristocrat. All of these are designed to take the game long, which ironically enough is good for us as there's enough removal in our deck to handle turns 1-4/5 without counters. The good part of this is that your opponent WILL tap out to play the big guns, allowing us to counter freely. 4 Essence Scatter is too much though, you don't want to get stuck with 3 in your hand because you'll only end up using them on creatures that are only a small part of the bigger picture. i'm not gonna bother countering a Centaur Healer on turn 3 when i know i'll get to counter a Thragtusk on 5. Your counter plan should be this, Syncopate (with X being 1-2) the small things first, Essence Scatter(creatures)/Negate(Entreats) mid game, then either Dissipate/Counterflux(my favourite) or tap out Syncopate to deal with the late game. By that time, you might already have Tamiyo controlling some of those creatures and maybe Bolas taking them out
I also think i need to learn more self control when deciding whether to keep or mull, which leads me to my point. what hands do everyone else think are keepable in grixis.
It's kinda hard knowing what hands to keep or to mulligan if you don't know what your opponent is playing.
So g1 I usually assume they are playing aggro (since that is a hard matchup) and hope for a hand that has removal for their early threats and a liliana or jace to slow them down. In g2, you have an idea of what they are playing and you can sideboard accordingly. Then you try and get a hand that has the answers you need.
I hope this makes sense, it was kinda hard for me to put my thoughts into words.... a long day in class does that to me.
Essence Scatter at the moment is doing one job and that's getting rid of Thragtusk/Angel of Serenity/Falkenrath Aristocrat. All of these are designed to take the game long, which ironically enough is good for us as there's enough removal in our deck to handle turns 1-4/5 without counters. The good part of this is that your opponent WILL tap out to play the big guns, allowing us to counter freely. 4 Essence Scatter is too much though, you don't want to get stuck with 3 in your hand because you'll only end up using them on creatures that are only a small part of the bigger picture. i'm not gonna bother countering a Centaur Healer on turn 3 when i know i'll get to counter a Thragtusk on 5. Your counter plan should be this, Syncopate (with X being 1-2) the small things first, Essence Scatter(creatures)/Negate(Entreats) mid game, then either Dissipate/Counterflux(my favourite) or tap out Syncopate to deal with the late game. By that time, you might already have Tamiyo controlling some of those creatures and maybe Bolas taking them out
That is true and I see your point.
But reanimator is fine with their creatures beings essence scattered since they can just use unburial rites to get their creature back. With dissipate/syncopate, you don't have to worry about their creatures being brought back with unburial rites or unburial rites being flashed back.
Then again, this is the only deck where the exiling is relevant and crucial.
Alright, I guess I'm sold on 3 essence scatter with a mix of syncopate/dissipate. haha
I completely agree with this, Grixis decks need 4 Essence Scatter somewhere in their 75. Also I can't believe the OP's ratings on Olivia Voldaren and Jace, Architect of Thought, both are amazing and pretty much the reason to he playing Grixis at this moment.
I second that opinion. Olivia and Jace does so much work for me.
Jace is a powerhouse, IMO. He is a card draw engine that can also reduce damage. His +1 ability lets you live a turn or two longer, which can give you the time you need to find an answer. The -2 ability is definitely the best and the -8 can be a win condition (if he ever gets up that high).
With Olivia, she is awesome (as most of you already know). Untapping with her just puts you back in the game.
If you are scared of olivia being exiled with selesnya charm, activate her ability once and their biggest guy. Once you are sure they don't have it, go to town with her ability.
Also, playing black give you some pretty nice sideboard cards and removal (slaughter games, duress, sever the bloodline, etc...).
Is playing 4 essence scatter better than having a 3rd copy of syncopate or dissipate?
It has been a while since I played this deck, well maybe a week or two.
I was wondering if this deck can support a full a set or 3-of thundermaw hellkites. That card is awesome, and I want to see him everyone game.
I'm thinking of going up to 4 Supreme Verdicts main just to deal with Geist.
Is running supreme verdict main a good idea? I haven't been able to make room for it in my build, I think I would rather play tamiyo over it and leave the verdicts in the sb.
I guess you can also play blasphemous act to deal with geist or sigarda, but it costs a lot of mana unless your opponent has the board flooded. However, I don't think blasphemous act is playable, at least not mb.
vampire nighthawk is vulnerable to removal, so I feel that it is not the best way to deal with geist and sigarda.
Round 1: Vs. GW midrange (with sigarda and armada worms) [2-1]
game 1:
Not much of a game. I mulliganed to four (I had too many lands in the first hand and had no lands in the next few).
sideboard:
-1 think twice
-1 dissipate
-2 pillar of flame
-2 liliana of the veil
+1 sever the bloodline
+1 blasphemous act
+2 vampire nighthawk
+1 appetite for brains
+1 jace
game 2:
He played his threats, I played my answers. Took control of the game with Tamiyo and beat him down with Niv-Mizzet.
game 3:
This was an actual game. He played smiter and silverblade, I have augur of bolas to block the smiter. I untap to use pillar of flame on the silverblade and kept the smiter tapped with tamiyo. Then he played restoration angel and sulblime angel and I answer with Olvia Voldaren. Playing around selesnya charm, I only the sublime angel once and took control when I untapped.
Round 2: junk reanimator [2-1]
game 1:
I netralized his lingering souls tokens with Jace and played niv-mizzet before he could get anything out.
1-0
sideboard:
-2 liliana
-2 pillar of flame
-1 think twice
-2 mizzium mortars
+1 sever the bloodline
+2 slaughter games
+2 dissipate
+1 nicol bolas
+1 rakdos charm
game 2:
My opening hand was a questionable keep with 5 lands an augur of bolas and a forbidden alchemy. I got flooded and he duress-ed me and took my forbidden alchemy. Did not draw any removal and he got 2 thragtusks on the board before I could do anything.
1-1
game 3:
I can't remember what exactly happened but it ended up with me beating him down and controlling the game with niv-mizzet and tamiyo.
2-1
round 3: Jund (it was a different style of jund, all his guys had haste and there was a lot more burn) [2-1]
game 1:
He had a very slow start and got flooded with mana, but still managed to get me to 2 life. However, I stabilized and won with niv-mizzet.
1-0
sideboard:
-2 pillar of flame
-2 liliana of the veil
-1 cyclonic rift
+1 sever the bloodline
+2 vampire nighthawk
+1 rakdos's returns
+1 (either jace or blasphemous act, I don't remember)
game 2:
He had a pretty good hand. I couldn't get anything on the board that did not get killed or taken away by zealous conscripts.
1-1
game 3:
This was a close one. He had a pretty fast start but I had an augur of bolas to slow him down to where I can cast mizzium mortars. I followed up with niv-mizzet; he played a conscripts and stole niv to beat me down to four. I play rakdos's returns on him for four and he cast searing spear on me bringing me down to 1. He draw land for the next few turns, while I beat him down with niv.
2-1
there was a break and then a cut to top 8
quarterfinals: played against the same style of jund the game before but this guy had geralf's messengers [2-1]
game 1:
He played a threat and got damage in and I had answers when I untapped. I stabilized around 4 life, he was out of gas, and I beat down with niv.
1-0
sideboard:
-2 liliana of the veil
-1 cyclonic rift
+1 sever the bloodline
+2 vampire nighthawk
(kept the pillars in because I saw geralf's messenger)
game 2:
He aggro-ed me before I could get anything to stick on the table.
1-1
game 3:
He had to mulligan and kept a slow hand because he did not want to go to 5. I had a decent hand with nighthawk and augur with 4 lands and a jace.
He was out of gas quickly and I drew into all my answers and niv-mizzet.
2-1
semifinals: junk reanimator (same guy as round 2) [1-0-1]
game 1: (it took 45 minutes)
He started with arbor elf, avacyn's pilrgrim, and deathrite shaman but he had nothing to follow it up and I killed the shaman and pilgrim using 2 pillars. Then he played a thragtusk and I top-decked a tamiyo to lock it down. He just passed the turn and I figured i can try and play a niv. He follows up with thragtusk and restoration angel putting him up to 30+ life. I answer with mizzium mortars but he still has the thragtusk tokens. In the next few turns I find myself very behind board (but way ahead on mana, 15 lands to his 7) because he was able to get 3 angel of serenities out and I was down to 4 life. I played cyclonic rift to return all his angles and had dissipates to counter them. I played my niv with counter backup and had a tamiyo that was about to go ultimate. He conceded.
1-0
sideboard: the same as last time.
game 2:
It went to time, but I made sure he was not going to win it. I played 2 slaughter games naming angel of serenity and thragtusk.
1-0-1
Finals: american control (with 2 geist of saint trafts MB and the detention spheres in the SB) [2-1]
game 1:
He played geist of saint traft beat me down to 6. I answer with mizzium mortars and he follows up with tamiyo. I play dreadbore on tamiyo and follow up with jace. He casts devil's play on jace. Then I play tamiyo a few turns later and he kills that with devil's play. He made a mistake of not targeting me with devil's play and realized it after he killed the tamiyo. I play liliana and take control and he concedes.
1-0
sideboard:
-4 pillar of flame
-3 mizzium mortars
-1 murder
+1 nicol bolas
+1 duress
+1 negate
+2 dissipate
+1 sever the bloodline
+1 slaughter games
+1 rakdos's returns
game 2:
He counters everything I play burns me to death with devil's play.
1-1
game 3:
I had control the whole game and he conceded when he tapped out for tamiyo and izzet charm (to draw/discard 2) and I followed up with nicol bolas and he did not have an answer.
2-1
overall:
This deck was pretty consistent but it is weak to sigarda and geist of st. traft.
(I will write more about this deck later).
I am playing the geist variant of UWR and I agree with Azorius Charm being better since it can mess up their next draw and is a huge tempo swing.
It does seem awesome against hexproof decks since they only swing with only 1 creature most of the time.
What are your thoughts on this card?
Is it playable? If it is, how many copies belong in the MB or SB?
There was a similar deck to yours that did well in the latest SCG Open. I don't know his record or what he played against but he said that Ral Zarek was very good for him.
here's the link to his decklist
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=55553
The guy also ran 3 thundermaw hellkite. Wouldn't that be a bit tougher against aggro since it costs 5 mana?
Oh man, this deck had some potential too. =[.
IMO tamiyo is pretty good against midrange, control, and frites so I think she has at least a place in my sb but I'm not sure about Jace.
At first, I thought the same thing. But after some testing, I found it to be a solid card since most of the decks in my meta are creature based.
It is less mana intensive and lets you do things on your turn, like play Keyrune on turn 4 and have mana up for essence scatter and the next turn play a jace or olivia and have mana up to counter a creature if you have to.
I'm not saying that it is better than syncopate or dissipate but it does the job.
Here is kidtwist's explanation on what essence scatter does. He explains it quite well.
It's kinda hard knowing what hands to keep or to mulligan if you don't know what your opponent is playing.
So g1 I usually assume they are playing aggro (since that is a hard matchup) and hope for a hand that has removal for their early threats and a liliana or jace to slow them down. In g2, you have an idea of what they are playing and you can sideboard accordingly. Then you try and get a hand that has the answers you need.
I hope this makes sense, it was kinda hard for me to put my thoughts into words.... a long day in class does that to me.
That is true and I see your point.
But reanimator is fine with their creatures beings essence scattered since they can just use unburial rites to get their creature back. With dissipate/syncopate, you don't have to worry about their creatures being brought back with unburial rites or unburial rites being flashed back.
Then again, this is the only deck where the exiling is relevant and crucial.
Alright, I guess I'm sold on 3 essence scatter with a mix of syncopate/dissipate. haha
I second that opinion. Olivia and Jace does so much work for me.
Jace is a powerhouse, IMO. He is a card draw engine that can also reduce damage. His +1 ability lets you live a turn or two longer, which can give you the time you need to find an answer. The -2 ability is definitely the best and the -8 can be a win condition (if he ever gets up that high).
With Olivia, she is awesome (as most of you already know). Untapping with her just puts you back in the game.
If you are scared of olivia being exiled with selesnya charm, activate her ability once and their biggest guy. Once you are sure they don't have it, go to town with her ability.
Also, playing black give you some pretty nice sideboard cards and removal (slaughter games, duress, sever the bloodline, etc...).
Is playing 4 essence scatter better than having a 3rd copy of syncopate or dissipate?
I was wondering if this deck can support a full a set or 3-of thundermaw hellkites. That card is awesome, and I want to see him everyone game.
Is running supreme verdict main a good idea? I haven't been able to make room for it in my build, I think I would rather play tamiyo over it and leave the verdicts in the sb.
vampire nighthawk is vulnerable to removal, so I feel that it is not the best way to deal with geist and sigarda.
2 Rakdos Keyrune
Creatures: 9
2 Niv-Mizzet, Dracogenius
2 Olivia Voldaren
2 Snapcaster Mage
3 Augur of Bolas
Spells: 17
3 Mizzium Mortars
4 Pillar of Flame
2 Dreadbore
1 Dissipate
1 sever the bloodline
1 Murder
1 cyclonic rift
3 Think Twice
1 Forbidden alchemy
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Lands: 25
4 blood crypt
4 steam vents
4 drowned catacomb
4 dragonskull summit
4 sulfur falls
1 desolate lighthouse
2 island
2 swamp
1 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
1 sever the bloodline
1 negate
1 rakdos's returns
1 appetite for brains
1 duress
1 blasphemous act
1 rakdos charm
2 dissipate
2 vampire nighthawk
2 slaughter games
Round 1: Vs. GW midrange (with sigarda and armada worms) [2-1]
game 1:
Not much of a game. I mulliganed to four (I had too many lands in the first hand and had no lands in the next few).
sideboard:
-1 think twice
-1 dissipate
-2 pillar of flame
-2 liliana of the veil
+1 sever the bloodline
+1 blasphemous act
+2 vampire nighthawk
+1 appetite for brains
+1 jace
game 2:
He played his threats, I played my answers. Took control of the game with Tamiyo and beat him down with Niv-Mizzet.
game 3:
This was an actual game. He played smiter and silverblade, I have augur of bolas to block the smiter. I untap to use pillar of flame on the silverblade and kept the smiter tapped with tamiyo. Then he played restoration angel and sulblime angel and I answer with Olvia Voldaren. Playing around selesnya charm, I only the sublime angel once and took control when I untapped.
Round 2: junk reanimator [2-1]
game 1:
I netralized his lingering souls tokens with Jace and played niv-mizzet before he could get anything out.
1-0
sideboard:
-2 liliana
-2 pillar of flame
-1 think twice
-2 mizzium mortars
+1 sever the bloodline
+2 slaughter games
+2 dissipate
+1 nicol bolas
+1 rakdos charm
game 2:
My opening hand was a questionable keep with 5 lands an augur of bolas and a forbidden alchemy. I got flooded and he duress-ed me and took my forbidden alchemy. Did not draw any removal and he got 2 thragtusks on the board before I could do anything.
1-1
game 3:
I can't remember what exactly happened but it ended up with me beating him down and controlling the game with niv-mizzet and tamiyo.
2-1
round 3: Jund (it was a different style of jund, all his guys had haste and there was a lot more burn) [2-1]
game 1:
He had a very slow start and got flooded with mana, but still managed to get me to 2 life. However, I stabilized and won with niv-mizzet.
1-0
sideboard:
-2 pillar of flame
-2 liliana of the veil
-1 cyclonic rift
+1 sever the bloodline
+2 vampire nighthawk
+1 rakdos's returns
+1 (either jace or blasphemous act, I don't remember)
game 2:
He had a pretty good hand. I couldn't get anything on the board that did not get killed or taken away by zealous conscripts.
1-1
game 3:
This was a close one. He had a pretty fast start but I had an augur of bolas to slow him down to where I can cast mizzium mortars. I followed up with niv-mizzet; he played a conscripts and stole niv to beat me down to four. I play rakdos's returns on him for four and he cast searing spear on me bringing me down to 1. He draw land for the next few turns, while I beat him down with niv.
2-1
there was a break and then a cut to top 8
quarterfinals: played against the same style of jund the game before but this guy had geralf's messengers [2-1]
game 1:
He played a threat and got damage in and I had answers when I untapped. I stabilized around 4 life, he was out of gas, and I beat down with niv.
1-0
sideboard:
-2 liliana of the veil
-1 cyclonic rift
+1 sever the bloodline
+2 vampire nighthawk
(kept the pillars in because I saw geralf's messenger)
game 2:
He aggro-ed me before I could get anything to stick on the table.
1-1
game 3:
He had to mulligan and kept a slow hand because he did not want to go to 5. I had a decent hand with nighthawk and augur with 4 lands and a jace.
He was out of gas quickly and I drew into all my answers and niv-mizzet.
2-1
semifinals: junk reanimator (same guy as round 2) [1-0-1]
game 1: (it took 45 minutes)
He started with arbor elf, avacyn's pilrgrim, and deathrite shaman but he had nothing to follow it up and I killed the shaman and pilgrim using 2 pillars. Then he played a thragtusk and I top-decked a tamiyo to lock it down. He just passed the turn and I figured i can try and play a niv. He follows up with thragtusk and restoration angel putting him up to 30+ life. I answer with mizzium mortars but he still has the thragtusk tokens. In the next few turns I find myself very behind board (but way ahead on mana, 15 lands to his 7) because he was able to get 3 angel of serenities out and I was down to 4 life. I played cyclonic rift to return all his angles and had dissipates to counter them. I played my niv with counter backup and had a tamiyo that was about to go ultimate. He conceded.
1-0
sideboard: the same as last time.
game 2:
It went to time, but I made sure he was not going to win it. I played 2 slaughter games naming angel of serenity and thragtusk.
1-0-1
Finals: american control (with 2 geist of saint trafts MB and the detention spheres in the SB) [2-1]
game 1:
He played geist of saint traft beat me down to 6. I answer with mizzium mortars and he follows up with tamiyo. I play dreadbore on tamiyo and follow up with jace. He casts devil's play on jace. Then I play tamiyo a few turns later and he kills that with devil's play. He made a mistake of not targeting me with devil's play and realized it after he killed the tamiyo. I play liliana and take control and he concedes.
1-0
sideboard:
-4 pillar of flame
-3 mizzium mortars
-1 murder
+1 nicol bolas
+1 duress
+1 negate
+2 dissipate
+1 sever the bloodline
+1 slaughter games
+1 rakdos's returns
game 2:
He counters everything I play burns me to death with devil's play.
1-1
game 3:
I had control the whole game and he conceded when he tapped out for tamiyo and izzet charm (to draw/discard 2) and I followed up with nicol bolas and he did not have an answer.
2-1
overall:
This deck was pretty consistent but it is weak to sigarda and geist of st. traft.
(I will write more about this deck later).
I did not like that card at all, I think I would rather play unsummon or mizzium mortars.
How do you guys feel about planeswalkers mainboard?