I think if I were to play the 4 SSG I would also include Blood Moon at least in the sideboard.
Until people stop trying these greedy 3, 4 and 5 color mana bases, it's just as much of a free win as Chalice in the proper matches. Heck, play leylines and we're getting close to becoming a Free Win Blue deck, I just don't think Ensnaring bridge will ever fit here, haha.
I'm still not sure 4 SSG in the deck can help more than they'll hurt. Of course on the opening 7, on the play with Chalice on hand they will feel great, or pumping an As Foretold t2 and then using AV, but keep track of the times they've been a wasted card in hand instead of a cycler/interaction.
I don't think I'll be able to test it soon, I find it an interesting alternative, but don't own Chalices online and don't want to spend that money on MTGO, and I barely play paper nowadays
In my own testing of SSG, i found 3 is an ok number.
Apart from Xexen's list of SSG advantages he cited earlier (and he did really well on MD chalices), I found SSG was not always a dead card because it was helpful not just in speeding up your gameplay by a turn which can be crucial, it also helped me hard cast my creatures as well. SSG wasn't a dead card in a many situations based on my own experience and so far I'm ok with 3 copies in my chalice build.
Took my list to the Card Kingdom 1K this past weekend. There were 7 rounds of Swiss, and I started the day with a 5-0 record, good for double ID into Top 8 as the 2 seed. I proceeded to then mulligan to 4 on the play against Abzan (I later found out that his opener that game was 3 lands, Inquisition, Thoughtseize, LotV. I lost and was sad, but at least I placed well.
I do love playing Chalices mainboard. It feels good against the fast decks (exception being Affinity, but even then Chalice on 1 locks out Galvanic Blast. We can win a lot of games off the strength of the deck’s win condition against the slower decks.
Moving forward, I’ll be cutting Obstructionist and Supreme Will completely and a single Cryptic to make room for 2 Jaces, and 3 Simian Spirit Guides. It makes me sad, since I have a soft spot for all those cards, but I think Jace is simply too strong not to play while Simian Spirit Guide can power out completely busted turns (Foretold on 2, Chalice for 1 on 1, and Jace on 3 seem really good). I also have all my games for the past month recorded in my notes along with deck archetype, and will compile them all into an easy to read data report at some point. More to come.
Took my list to the Card Kingdom 1K this past weekend. There were 7 rounds of Swiss, and I started the day with a 5-0 record, good for double ID into Top 8 as the 2 seed. I proceeded to then mulligan to 4 on the play against Abzan (I later found out that his opener that game was 3 lands, Inquisition, Thoughtseize, LotV. I lost and was sad, but at least I placed well.
I do love playing Chalices mainboard. It feels good against the fast decks (exception being Affinity, but even then Chalice on 1 locks out Galvanic Blast. We can win a lot of games off the strength of the deck’s win condition against the slower decks.
Moving forward, I’ll be cutting Obstructionist and Supreme Will completely and a single Cryptic to make room for 2 Jaces, and 3 Simian Spirit Guides. It makes me sad, since I have a soft spot for all those cards, but I think Jace is simply too strong not to play while Simian Spirit Guide can power out completely busted turns (Foretold on 2, Chalice for 1 on 1, and Jace on 3 seem really good). I also have all my games for the past month recorded in my notes along with deck archetype, and will compile them all into an easy to read data report at some point. More to come.
Congratulations!
We are aligned on the simians. I have played the chalice version with simians and it is very strong because of the explosive plays and because our curve is awkward, and all the cantrips and card draw offset the initial card disadvantage. Chalice is also great game vs burn, and as such agree that white leylines become unneeded too. With the simians I went down to 19 lands and it has been ok.
You wouldn't know that, but Gemstone Mine was errata'd so it's no longer a triggered ability. I guess no-one called a judge or checked for the updated wording, I understand the mistake because as originally worded it was a triggered ability
I won 1st at FNM yesterday and it was a quick version of the deck that I planned and sleeved 2 hours before FNM.
It was chalice-based and I used Simian Spirit Guides to power out T1 chalices and T2 As Foretolds. Knowledge of SSG made opponents play around 1 untapped mana, to their detriment. It is a tight list but it has won me FNM so that gives me comfidence in the build.
Nimble Obstructionist gives me surprise interactions all the time. Against Ad Naus, I countered gemstone mine’s ETB trigger of adding mine counters (didnt realize it was an ETB trigger until last night) to destroy his land and set him back a couple of precious turns.
What I like about the cycling creatures is the consistency they afford-- they are reanimation targets plus loot in one, making space for interactive spells.
In my chat with Hazzard we briefly discussed a second bojuka bog vs tormod’s crypt. We think it is worth a try, given that they serve the same purpose (tutorable one-time GY hoser) plus it has a mana function, doesnt dilute the rest of your spells and potentially reusable with dimir aqueducts or cryptic bounce.
Seems like search for azcanta and serum visions came here to stay. Maybe its time to try them out. Are you testing that guys?
I have tested search and visions, I've found both lean into the ability for the deck to go long but in a race they can sometimes be a liability, especially search, however the filtering is really nice so I'm not sold yet on weather or not to include them.
Search/serum do help to get the combo pieces but if we’re going to be more all-in on the combo then wouldn’t Jund living end be better at what it tries to achieve. I think the advantage of this version of living end is the potential to be more interactive than the Jund version. As such, I would prefer taking advantage of other cards like chalices or counterspells in their slot otherwise I would just go back to Jund. He did well with a 6-1 finish tho!
Was watching and chatting with 1310Hazzard in his live twitch stream a few hours ago and he was using a singleton Dimir Aqueduct and it made me smile because that is spicy as heck. Some good potential to reuse bojuka or bring back tolaria west.
You can learn as much from his misplays than his great ones because he usually points it out when he misplays.
If you only want to watch people that play the deck perfectly you'll never be exposed to the misplays you could also make.
That’s not true. His misplays completely change the way the game plays out. It’s why he loses most games.
The misplays also do not inspire at all. Compare to SaffronOlive who makes you wanna pick up the deck, Gabriel’s awful plays made me doubt the deck a little before I realized he was being awful at playin it.
I would like to have Chalice back in my build because -
As far as matchups go, Infect is completely unwinnable. Affinity and Burn are also challenging. Lantern is a joke though
Eldrazi Tron player here. I can say that Chalice is really good vs many decks but it is not that good vs affinity. Damping Matrix is tech against them though. So many affinity in my area I have been using Damping Matrix in my original Jund living end build.
I love chalices and I use them in my build but I side them out vs affinity. I will always use chalices whenever I can just because I have them
Watching the Twitch streams I have also observed many instances wherein baral's expertise would have been better than cryptic, i.e. many cases of tap + draw to find As Foretold.
Baral's expertise would have been able to cast living end in many of those matches. Having only 4 copies of As Foretold has shown its disadvantage in several matches and I think having at least one (max 2) Baral's expertise adds to the consistency of the combo.
Also, even without As Foretold/living end, return 3 creatures/artefacts + draw 3 cards is cryptic command on steroids. And theres many other fabulous lines of play.
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In my own testing of SSG, i found 3 is an ok number.
Apart from Xexen's list of SSG advantages he cited earlier (and he did really well on MD chalices), I found SSG was not always a dead card because it was helpful not just in speeding up your gameplay by a turn which can be crucial, it also helped me hard cast my creatures as well. SSG wasn't a dead card in a many situations based on my own experience and so far I'm ok with 3 copies in my chalice build.
Congratulations!
We are aligned on the simians. I have played the chalice version with simians and it is very strong because of the explosive plays and because our curve is awkward, and all the cantrips and card draw offset the initial card disadvantage. Chalice is also great game vs burn, and as such agree that white leylines become unneeded too. With the simians I went down to 19 lands and it has been ok.
Ok damn i did not know that was errata’d.
It was chalice-based and I used Simian Spirit Guides to power out T1 chalices and T2 As Foretolds. Knowledge of SSG made opponents play around 1 untapped mana, to their detriment. It is a tight list but it has won me FNM so that gives me comfidence in the build.
Nimble Obstructionist gives me surprise interactions all the time. Against Ad Naus, I countered gemstone mine’s ETB trigger of adding mine counters (didnt realize it was an ETB trigger until last night) to destroy his land and set him back a couple of precious turns.
OMG Pascal tried to cryptic an Emrakul.
Search/serum do help to get the combo pieces but if we’re going to be more all-in on the combo then wouldn’t Jund living end be better at what it tries to achieve. I think the advantage of this version of living end is the potential to be more interactive than the Jund version. As such, I would prefer taking advantage of other cards like chalices or counterspells in their slot otherwise I would just go back to Jund. He did well with a 6-1 finish tho!
The misplays also do not inspire at all. Compare to SaffronOlive who makes you wanna pick up the deck, Gabriel’s awful plays made me doubt the deck a little before I realized he was being awful at playin it.
Eldrazi Tron player here. I can say that Chalice is really good vs many decks but it is not that good vs affinity. Damping Matrix is tech against them though. So many affinity in my area I have been using Damping Matrix in my original Jund living end build.
I love chalices and I use them in my build but I side them out vs affinity. I will always use chalices whenever I can just because I have them
Baral's expertise would have been able to cast living end in many of those matches. Having only 4 copies of As Foretold has shown its disadvantage in several matches and I think having at least one (max 2) Baral's expertise adds to the consistency of the combo.
Also, even without As Foretold/living end, return 3 creatures/artefacts + draw 3 cards is cryptic command on steroids. And theres many other fabulous lines of play.