Almost every aggro matchup instantly folds to Anger of the Gods, mono-U no exception. It's why the original, post-rotation (Innistrad) list ran it as a 4-of. I mean, the Yanyuk list was basically designed to KO mono-U, mono-B, and have some game against UW control. Things have changed a bit since then, but I haven't really seen any dangerous evolution of the mono-U lists. (Mono-B splashing G for Golgari Charm and Abrupt Decay I think is what forced this archetype to the benches.)
But the core of the deck, I believe, is its removal package of Chained to the Rocks, Selesnya Charm, Mizzium Mortars and Anger of the Gods, all usually as 4-ofs. It makes the deck a handful, as it's just loaded with answers and a critical mass of planeswalkers. That's been my experience anyway.
I like the idea of Boros Charm in the SB, as it helps keep the deck's assets safe, and in a pinch can take a bite out of opposing planeswalkers, if not destroy them. Also, added reach if games get close.
There have been three or four Naya Control/Planeswalkers/Superfriends posts in Standard Deck Creation over the last week, so I think this thread could use a bump. Seems like there's interest. Anyway, here's my Game Day report (copy/pasted from one of said threads in SDC). Took 3rd with Naya Control, losing to Jund Walkers in the semis. Here's the list I ran:
Game 1, I started out slow (as is the MO of the deck), but Anger followed by Anger combined with Max mana screwed left me plenty of time to come out on top. Ajani did work, finding Chains to KO a Master of Waves, and then digging out an Elspeth to get the show on the road.
SB-out: Loxodon Smiter x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2; Nissa, Worldwaker x 1
SB-in: Mistcutter Hydra x 4; Banishing Light x 3
Game 2, I mulled to six (five-lander!), but had three scrylands in my opener which found me my removal. Max got Thassa online which met a Selesnya Charm, I fell to 13 before Anger took care of an unfortunate over-extension. I decided to race with double Mistcutters on 5 which took me the rest of the way.
I think the game was decided when I got greedy, playing a Courser on turn 3 hoping for some lifegain/lands instead of Angering away a solo Nightveil Specter. Instead of a land, Courser reveals a Banishing Light. Lovely. I knew whatever was revealed would get gobbled up by the Specter, but I didn't want to 1-for-1 with the Anger. Nightveil connects and takes the Banishing Light, but instead of taking out my Courser (Max had plenty of white mana), he instead played another Neightveil Specter. They were eaten by the Anger, and the Mistcutters followed shortly afterwards.
2-0 games, 1-0 matches.
Round 2 against David playing BG Corpsejack counters.
Game 1, David was largely color screwed, only hitting his forests, and eventually once he hit black mana it was his scrylands. Nissa and 4/4 trample creatures went tape-to-tape, with some removal getting blockers out of the way for full damage.
SB-out: Nissa, Worldwaker x 2; Warleader's Helix x 1; Ajani, Mentor of Heroes x 1 (?: this might have been a Chandra instead)
SB-in: Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1; Assemble the Legion x 3
Game 2, despite the Corpsejack Menaces and Dreg Manglers, I thought I was going against Bg Devotion. This was a very, very tight game. I fell to 6 before managing to close it out. Timely removal on a seemingly never-ending supply of Dreg Manglers and Corpsejack Menaces allowed Assemble the Legion and Xenagos to do god's work. David never found his Golgari Charms.
BG is not a color combination that this deck matches up well against. Everything Naya Control throws at it go right into it's wheelhouse. While this wasn't the dreaded Bg Devotion deck, these games were still very tight. One well-timed Golgari Charm, or Abrupt Decay on a Chained to the Rocks and things could have ended differently.
4-0 games, 2-0 matches.
Round 3 against Sam playing Rw Burn.
Game 1, total blow out haha. I kept a slow hand and had no answers for Chandra's Phoenixes and tons of burn. Sam hit three lands (one Mutavault) and had a full grip all game. I had no shot. Looking back, he finished game 1 at 9 life, which was due to his Battlefield Forge pinging him over and over!
SB-out: Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1; Selesnya Charm x 4
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3; Ruric Thar, the Unbowed x 2
Game 2, Sam flooded out, I got a bunch of life off an unmolested Courser, and Ajani found Ruric for the concession.
Game 3, another total blow out. I notice that in my notes, I didn't even keep track of life totals. I went from 20 to 0 in four turns.
Naya Control has an issue with Burn. It is precisely this reason that I need to fit at least one more Warleader's Helix, if not two. I'm unsure of the cuts, however. The original Yanyuk list ran four Centaur Healer in the SB specifically because Burn is such a popular deck. I like the idea, but don't know under what other matches I'd ever run them in, which keeps me from considering them that heavily. Plus, what do I cut from the board?
5-2 games, 2-1 matches.
Round 4 against Steven planing Mono-R Rabblemaster.
Game 1, Steven got me down to 8 before double Coursers pulled me back from the brink. Anger of the Gods cleared the way for what eventually were three 4/4 trample lands courtesy of Nissa.
SB-out: Xenagos, the Reveler x 2; Selesnya Charm x1
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3
Game 2, I admit, I did not take this deck seriously. I misplayed my land drop on turn 2, playing a second Temple of Plenty instead of a Temple of Abandon, and as such I didn't have double red on turn 3 to Anger away a soon to be lethal goblin army. Instead, I played a Courser, which was immediately Mortared, and the ensuing alpha got me low enough where I couldn't recover, despite getting the Anger off on turn 4. Steven's burn finished me off.
Game 3, I ran it back and made no SB changes. Serious-face time, I took Steven's threats much less lightly, using Chains on such powerhouse cards like Goblin Kaboomist and Foundry Street Denizen, haha. The targeted removal was enough to force an over-extension that was met with an Anger. Again, Nissa and 4/4 trample lands went the distance.
I now firmly believe that Rabblemaster Red is going to be a force post-rotation. There is almost no way it can't be. Anger of the Gods is a stone-cold must against really fast aggro decks, and I hope there's some kind of red sweeper that can replace Mizzium Mortars in Khans.
7-3 games, 3-1 matches.
Cut to Top-4 (It was the morning event which is usually smaller. We had 13 people iirc)
Semi-finals against Alan playing Jund Walkers.
Game 1, I mulled to five, but Alan was stuck on only two lands. It was not an engaging match in the least. I think I just ran him over with Loxodon Smiters.
SB-out: Chain to the Rocks x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3; Ruric Thar, the Unbowed x 2; Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1
Game 2 was the opposite of Game 1. I was stuck on "only" four lands, but it wasn't enough to get multiple threats or any pressure on Alan. I was eventually done in by Garruk, Apex Predator. At last count, before a lethal attack, I was at 3 and Alan was at 30 haha!
SB-out: Selesnya Charm x 4; Chandra, Pyromaster x 2
SB-in: Chained to the Rocks x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2
Game 3, I realized I sided wrong and needed the extra removal. This game was an excruciatingly close, back and forth affair. I believe I punted when Alan had six total mana available (four lands, an Elvish Mystic and a Sylvan Caryatid). I think I should have Chained the mana dork, as if he had a land drop, he would have the mana to cast big Garruk. Instead, I opted to wait until I had six mana for a Ruric Thar, followed by an overloaded Mizzium Mortars. Alan had the land, played the Garruk, blew up my Smiter and passed. I played Ruric and passed, knowing Garruk was only on 2 loyalty, and the Mortars would take out the beast token along with the other creatures (and yes, taking six damage courtesy of my newly-minted Ruric Thar).
Alan managed to topdeck mana dork blockers to keep Ruric at bay, followed by a Vraska to take him out. I had a Banishing Light for the Vraska, but a Rakdos' Return for 5 meant we were both top-decking. It was a little ridiculous haha. He would top-deck a creature or threat, and it would meet my top-deck removal. I got Alan down to 2, with me at 7. He top-decks a Stormbreath Dragon putting me to 3, and I need to answer with either a Warleader's Helix for the win or a Mizzium Mortars to at least prolong the game. I reveal the top of my library, and it's a Stomping Grounds. GG, Alan (no pun intended, Alan was a very sweet guy. Happy to lose to him. He eventually took the Game Day Championship playmat against Sam).
In hindsight, I had no idea why I didn't side in the Pithing Needles against a deck that runs something like eight or 10 planeswalkers! You'd think that would have been a good idea haha! Also in hindsight, finding room for at least one more Warleader's Helix or some kind of legit life gain is important for this deck going forward. I'm also surprised that in all my games, Chandra was a non-factor. She zeroed me some cards in I think the first game against Alan, but he was mana screwed so it was largely symbolic. Even against the aggro decks, I didn't really see many X/1s I wanted to use her +1 on, preferring to get more value via a sweeper.
Post-rotation, I don't think the deck can stay as-is. Losing the shocklands is just too much, as despite having the painlands, they aren't mountains that are necessary for Chained to the Rocks. An option is to lean much more heavily on RW, with a G splash, but said splash would be for double-green Coursers and Nissa? It's a stretch. Maybe RG, splashing W... although really the big prize of going W over B is Elspeth, which is another stretch for a splash color. We have to hope Khans has a decent sweeper in R to replace Mizzium Mortars, and something like Path to Exile to replace the Chains haha.
Since this report, I have gone -1 Selesnya Charm, +1 Warleader's Helix in the main. The SB may need a bit of an overhaul; it's a dog to RW Burn, and WU Control requires a ton of work to get wins. But the SB strats for those match-ups are so different, I don't think it's worth watering down both solutions just to fit within the 15-card limit. It obviously depends on the meta, but I'm leaning towards the hedge against RW Burn. Something like +4 Centaur Healers, +2 Last Breath; -1 Elspeth, -2 Pithing Needles, -1 Mistcutter, -1 Assemble, -1 Banishing Light. Also, Warden of the Beyond could be a replacement for Loxodon Smiters. So much of the removal exiles. Worth testing when Khans rotates in.
I've never seen someone I do that to NOT re-read Bile Blight. They think it's like Slaughter Games or Thoughtseize where you "name a card."
Anyway, Game Day report I suppose. Took 3rd (upon further review, I did indeed take 3rd, not 3rd/4th) with Naya Control, losing to Jund Walkers in the semis. Here's the list I ran:
Game 1, I started out slow (as is the MO of the deck), but Anger followed by Anger combined with Max mana screwed left me plenty of time to come out on top. Ajani did work, finding Chains to KO a Master of Waves, and then digging out an Elspeth to get the show on the road.
SB-out: Loxodon Smiter x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2; Nissa, Worldwaker x 1
SB-in: Mistcutter Hydra x 4; Banishing Light x 3
Game 2, I mulled to six (five-lander!), but had three scrylands in my opener which found me my removal. Max got Thassa online which met a Selesnya Charm, I fell to 13 before Anger took care of an unfortunate over-extension. I decided to race with double Mistcutters on 5 which took me the rest of the way.
I think the game was decided when I got greedy, playing a Courser on turn 3 hoping for some lifegain/lands instead of Angering away a solo Nightveil Specter. Instead of a land, Courser reveals a Banishing Light. Lovely. I knew whatever was revealed would get gobbled up by the Specter, but I didn't want to 1-for-1 with the Anger. Nightveil connects and takes the Banishing Light, but instead of taking out my Courser (Max had plenty of white mana), he instead played another Neightveil Specter. They were eaten by the Anger, and the Mistcutters followed shortly afterwards.
2-0 games, 1-0 matches.
Round 2 against David playing BG Corpsejack counters.
Game 1, David was largely color screwed, only hitting his forests, and eventually once he hit black mana it was his scrylands. Nissa and 4/4 trample creatures went tape-to-tape, with some removal getting blockers out of the way for full damage.
SB-out: Nissa, Worldwaker x 2; Warleader's Helix x 1; Ajani, Mentor of Heroes x 1 (?: this might have been a Chandra instead)
SB-in: Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1; Assemble the Legion x 3
Game 2, despite the Corpsejack Menaces and Dreg Manglers, I thought I was going against Bg Devotion. This was a very, very tight game. I fell to 6 before managing to close it out. Timely removal on a seemingly never-ending supply of Dreg Manglers and Corpsejack Menaces allowed Assemble the Legion and Xenagos to do god's work. David never found his Golgari Charms.
BG is not a color combination that this deck matches up well against. Everything Naya Control throws at it go right into it's wheelhouse. While this wasn't the dreaded Bg Devotion deck, these games were still very tight. One well-timed Golgari Charm, or Abrupt Decay on a Chained to the Rocks and things could have ended differently.
4-0 games, 2-0 matches.
Round 3 against Sam playing Rw Burn.
Game 1, total blow out haha. I kept a slow hand and had no answers for Chandra's Phoenixes and tons of burn. Sam hit three lands (one Mutavault) and had a full grip all game. I had no shot. Looking back, he finished game 1 at 9 life, which was due to his Battlefield Forge pinging him over and over!
SB-out: Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1; Selesnya Charm x 4
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3; Ruric Thar, the Unbowed x 2
Game 2, Sam flooded out, I got a bunch of life off an unmolested Courser, and Ajani found Ruric for the concession.
Game 3, another total blow out. I notice that in my notes, I didn't even keep track of life totals. I went from 20 to 0 in four turns.
Naya Control has an issue with Burn. It is precisely this reason that I need to fit at least one more Warleader's Helix, if not two. I'm unsure of the cuts, however. The original Yanyuk list ran four Centaur Healer in the SB specifically because Burn is such a popular deck. I like the idea, but don't know under what other matches I'd ever run them in, which keeps me from considering them that heavily. Plus, what do I cut from the board?
5-2 games, 2-1 matches.
Round 4 against Steven planing Mono-R Rabblemaster.
Game 1, Steven got me down to 8 before double Coursers pulled me back from the brink. Anger of the Gods cleared the way for what eventually were three 4/4 trample lands courtesy of Nissa.
SB-out: Xenagos, the Reveler x 2; Selesnya Charm x1
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3
Game 2, I admit, I did not take this deck seriously. I misplayed my land drop on turn 2, playing a second Temple of Plenty instead of a Temple of Abandon, and as such I didn't have double red on turn 3 to Anger away a soon to be lethal goblin army. Instead, I played a Courser, which was immediately Mortared, and the ensuing alpha got me low enough where I couldn't recover, despite getting the Anger off on turn 4. Steven's burn finished me off.
Game 3, I ran it back and made no SB changes. Serious-face time, I took Steven's threats much less lightly, using Chains on such powerhouse cards like Goblin Kaboomist and Foundry Street Denizen, haha. The targeted removal was enough to force an over-extension that was met with an Anger. Again, Nissa and 4/4 trample lands went the distance.
I now firmly believe that Rabblemaster Red is going to be a force post-rotation. There is almost no way it can't be. Anger of the Gods is a stone-cold must against really fast aggro decks, and I hope there's some kind of red sweeper that can replace Mizzium Mortars in Khans.
7-3 games, 3-1 matches.
Cut to Top-4 (It was the morning event which is usually smaller. We had 13 people iirc)
Semi-finals against Alan playing Jund Walkers.
Game 1, I mulled to five, but Alan was stuck on only two lands. It was not an engaging match in the least. I think I just ran him over with Loxodon Smiters.
SB-out: Chain to the Rocks x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3; Ruric Thar, the Unbowed x 2; Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1
Game 2 was the opposite of Game 1. I was stuck on "only" four lands, but it wasn't enough to get multiple threats or any pressure on Alan. I was eventually done in by Garruk, Apex Predator. At last count, before a lethal attack, I was at 3 and Alan was at 30 haha!
SB-out: Selesnya Charm x 4; Chandra, Pyromaster x 2
SB-in: Chained to the Rocks x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2
Game 3, I realized I sided wrong and needed the extra removal. This game was an excruciatingly close, back and forth affair. I believe I punted when Alan had six total mana available (four lands, an Elvish Mystic and a Sylvan Caryatid). I think I should have Chained the mana dork, as if he had a land drop, he would have the mana to cast big Garruk. Instead, I opted to wait until I had six mana for a Ruric Thar, followed by an overloaded Mizzium Mortars. Alan had the land, played the Garruk, blew up my Smiter and passed. I played Ruric and passed, knowing Garruk was only on 2 loyalty, and the Mortars would take out the beast token along with the other creatures (and yes, taking six damage courtesy of my newly-minted Ruric Thar).
Alan managed to topdeck mana dork blockers to keep Ruric at bay, followed by a Vraska to take him out. I had a Banishing Light for the Vraska, but a Rakdos' Return for 5 meant we were both top-decking. It was a little ridiculous haha. He would top-deck a creature or threat, and it would meet my top-deck removal. I got Alan down to 2, with me at 7. He top-decks a Stormbreath Dragon putting me to 3, and I need to answer with either a Warleader's Helix for the win or a Mizzium Mortars to at least prolong the game. I reveal the top of my library, and it's a Stomping Grounds. GG, Alan (no pun intended, Alan was a very sweet guy. Happy to lose to him. He eventually took the Game Day Championship playmat against Sam).
In hindsight, I had no idea why I didn't side in the Pithing Needles against a deck that runs something like eight or 10 planeswalkers! You'd think that would have been a good idea haha! Also in hindsight, finding room for at least one more Warleader's Helix or some kind of legit life gain is important for this deck going forward. I'm also surprised that in all my games, Chandra was a non-factor. She zeroed me some cards in I think the first game against Alan, but he was mana screwed so it was largely symbolic. Even against the aggro decks, I didn't really see many X/1s I wanted to use her +1 on, preferring to get more value via a sweeper.
Post-rotation, I don't think the deck can stay as-is. Losing the shocklands is just too much, as despite having the painlands, they aren't mountains that are necessary for Chained to the Rocks. An option is to lean much more heavily on RW, with a G splash, but said splash would be for double-green Coursers and Nissa? It's a stretch. Maybe RG, splashing W... although really the big prize of going W over B is Elspeth, which is another stretch for a splash color. We have to hope Khans has a decent sweeper in R, and something like Path to Exile to replace the Chains haha.
Here are a couple Naya Control and Naya Superfriends threads that might be good for inspiration. I hadn't considered Ajani, Mentor of Heroes, but I have been trying Nissa, Worldwaker. I preferred the original Andrey Yanyuk list to Brad Nelson's, as Nelson is a notorious metagamer, so his decks are 99.9% tuned to what he expects the meta to be of the tournament he's attending.
I always felt the backbone of the deck was the 4-ofs of all the removal: Chained to the Rocks, Selesnya Charm, Anger of the Gods and Mizzium Mortars. At the time it was designed, mono-B and mono-U were the decks to beat, and those four cards covered virtually all of their threats. Things have changed since then. Where Assemble the Legion was an auto-win against mono-B, Bile Blight can throw a wrench in that plan. The rise of WU control has been a thorn in my side, most because I'm an idiot and don't know the match up very well, but I need to get the Ruric Thars back in the SB.
The list I currently run eschewed the Stormbreath Dragons in favor of the Coursers. The Courses plus Chandra becomes a very powerful combination, such that I run three Chandra (but may cut it to two in order begin fitting some GW Ajanis). My list also had a bit of trouble with fast aggro and adding Warleader's Helix provided some much-needed life-gain. It also helps combat Bile Blight, as if you suspect one is coming, you just helix the soldier token the opponent is targeting. It's a "next level play" (/eyeroll) that's won me several games against mono-B.
I really like this deck archetype and, depending on how slow Khans is, might be a decent rogue choice no one expects.
Despite next block being confirmed as a wedge block, I like RGW as a control color combination and will try to keep it together going into Khans. I've been using a similar list to the one posted here, but definitely want to modify it more for M15 (namely add a couple Nissas, and test out Scuttling Doom Engine and/or Soul of New Phyrexia).
This past season, Naya Control could eat mono-B devotion's lunch as long as they weren't splashing green, so I was happy to see a number of pros running BW midrange at the Pro Tour, and the post-board matchup against WU control isn't horrifyingly bad (although I usually play it poorly). The linked lists lose roughly half of their creature elimination spells, so I think leaning on white and red, splashing green, is what I want to attempt.
Losing Loxodon Smiter is going to smell, but maybe Fanatic of Xenagos or Warden of the Beyond can fill that role. Or just put the Stormbreath Dragons back in. I'll want to see the fixing in Khans before I commit, but as long as mono-B hangs around, I think Naya control has a seat at the table.
Yisan, the Wanderer Bard looks like a fun toolbox kind of card. Easier to deal with than Birthing Pod, but he can be activated at instant speed. Interesting card to play around with.
I learned a lot piloting the list and not necessarily about the deck itself, but about meta positioning. Of course I also had some takeaway from the list itself. Turn 1 Thoughtseize is absurdly powerful and playing creatures over counter and removal really causes it to lose an incredible amount of power and value. Planeswalkers are the best card type in the format, there are few ways to deal with them and if you are in BG your opponent's real answers for them are reduced. Finally, I have this feeling deep within me that Ashiok, Nightmare Weaver is one of the most underrated cards in the format.
Could you speak about this a bit more? I never thought about it before, but it makes sense that if you're holding a grip full of counter and removal (as opposed to creatures), there are a lot dead cards in the opponent's deck and hands, thus focusing Thoughtseize into an even more crippling removal spell. What were you seeing (and taking) with your thoughtseizes? Depending on the mana in Kahns of Tarkir, if it's a wedge block (crosses fingers), BUG will be a force. As will Ashiok, once Abrupt Decay has rotated out.
I'm running a list similar to the Hoogland/Poisoned_1 list a couple pages ago. I don't think I'm ready to give up my Coursers, Caryatids or Prognostic Sphinxes just yet. Also, I still haven't found MJ's BUGw list haha. Thanks for the write-up.
Some time last week, Michael Jacob was playing a BUGw list on stream, I believe the Monday or Wednesday after the Pro Tour. I tuned in just as he was dropping from the event haha, but from what very little I saw I wanted to examine his list. For the life of me I can't find it in his vods. Did anyone see it? I knew he was running Mana Confluence and Sphinx's Revelation, and then the usual BUG menagerie (Prognostic Sphinx, Sylvan Caryatid, Kiora, etc.)
MJ hasn't touched the list since, so it's like finding a needle in a haystack. It's not like he's going to highlight an 0-2 drop, or whatever his record was for that event.
Ninja edit: I remember him casting Silence the Believers and striving it for value. If that helps haha.
One quick question I had while gathering the cards for this: when was Death Spark ever printed at common? Alliances has the card listed at uncommon, and it's in a couple other supplemental products, all at uncommon.
I'm using Lanxal's 360 as a base for a pauper cube tuned for sealed play (so at the very least it will have... a lot more cards haha). In my experience, sealed cubes need to be adjusted for multi-color play, more mana-fixing, and gourmet artifact destruction, which hasn't been that tough to fill at common. Suggestions welcome, though!
Also got a coworker sucked back into magic, and he liked the idea of a pauper cube to draft with his board game cronies, so I sent him to this thread. He was hoping for an easier way to just purchase all the cards in the original 360, so I was wondering if it would be possible to edit the OP with a single deck list after the breakdown that has all the cards (for ease of just hitting the tcg link and bam, all the cards are in his cart). Just a thought!
This idea has some legs, I think. The whole idea of the aristocrats archetype is to gain incremental value, every crumb, from your creatures, both in play, in the gy, when they die, etc. To that end, in junk colors, I'd like to see Varolz, the Scar-Striped somewhere in there as a sac outlet and to provide extra value from the yard. Let alone the value you'd get with an Atheros in play.
I don't think I like Sphere of Safety. It's a troll kind of card, and can be fun to watch the oppo squirm, but when there's burn and Gray Merchants about, I've seen games decided without the attack step being a deciding factor (for real, I've been smoked by the combo of Vizkopa Guildmage, Tavern Swindler, and some lucky coin flips haha). Doomwake Giant kind of fills a similar role in that it can stop alphas from occurring, if only because it can wipe out weenies easily in a deck like this.
Heliod, God of the Sun could also probably fit, as the tokens he makes are enchantment creatures. If only there were more usable Constellation creatures. Just some ideas.
This card will not have an impact on standard. The only 4x god is Thassa and she is easily handled with the current hate out there. This card will not see play and is a total waste of a rare slot. Opening this will be like opening Conjured Currency in RTR.
I once flashed in a Conjured Currency on my opponent's end step (thank you, Alchemist's Refuge) to steal his just-summoned Griselbrand during my upkeep. He's a cop, and I was afraid he was going to shoot me.
Per Deicide, yeah, really fantastic art. Really want to see a larger version. I'll find some room to put this and Banishing Light somewhere in the 75 of my Naya control list.
I like the card a lot, can probably take the place of a Far/Away in some lists that I run. I'll be the voice of dissent on the art though. It's graphic, sure. But certainly not great. Not after Ashiok, anyway.
I'm curious, do the non-DR versions just nickle and dime the opponent with 2/2 zombies over several turns? Or is there something I'm missing? I used to play Dredge, as Beralt mentions, back when it was called Ichorid. Relying on Unmasks and Cabal Therapy to hopefully clear the way for an alpha on turn 2 or so, courtesy of a Flame-kin Zealot and a bunch of zombies. Is this still the way Dredge wins?
The non-DR deck was in response to the overwhelming number of shop decks that were seeing play. Storm was down, so we didn't need to race, and all our free abilities meant that there was no reason we had to worry about mana. Reoccurring our guys and getting zombies mean a pretty decent match up for us. The titan list from 2011, which now runs Griselbrand to dredge more and essentially win, has a much faster path to victory. It has its turn 2 wins a good chunk of the time. But as I mentioned before, its easier to disrupt and hate out from my own experience, while the non-DR list can withstand a little more hate but has a rough time with combo. What do you see yourself playing against?
Thanks for the replies, all. Right now my meta is unknown: we don't know where we're going to find games, but we're in the Philly/Jersey area. When we used to play, there was Workshop, Gushbond, Tinker/Colossus and Oath (that I can remember). Probably other stuff. But that was years ago, and a lot of the places we played, at least in Jersey, have left this mortal coil. The Dredge list I put together was based off a 2008 Malaysian championship deck, I think. Tuned to his/her meta, certainly, but it was powerless, near-mana-less, and won with the usual Flame-kin Zealot DR target. It ran a bit of enchant/artifact hate main in the form of three or four Nature's Claim, along with two Chalice of the Void main as well. It was pretty fast, turn 2 wins often, but as mentioned not that tough to disrupt. The list as-was had a tough time with a Tinkered-in BSC, so I switched out the Nature's Claims for Chain of Vapor.
I like the "more mana" versions posted above (if only for Petrified Field) and will probably try to shoehorn in a DR package.
This is borderline necro-posting, but it's still on the first page (that's my story and I'm sticking to it!)
I'm curious, do the non-DR versions just nickle and dime the opponent with 2/2 zombies over several turns? Or is there something I'm missing? I used to play Dredge, as Beralt mentions, back when it was called Ichorid. Relying on Unmasks and Cabal Therapy to hopefully clear the way for an alpha on turn 2 or so, courtesy of a Flame-kin Zealot and a bunch of zombies. Is this still the way Dredge wins?
I started playing Standard again (sweet Baby Oprah, save me!) when Innistrad dropped, but my playgroup is getting back into Vintage. I feel obligated to ruin their lives by dusting off Old Faithful haha. Thanks!
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Is Masterpiece template available yet? It looks totally sick and I want to play with it haha
But the core of the deck, I believe, is its removal package of Chained to the Rocks, Selesnya Charm, Mizzium Mortars and Anger of the Gods, all usually as 4-ofs. It makes the deck a handful, as it's just loaded with answers and a critical mass of planeswalkers. That's been my experience anyway.
I like the idea of Boros Charm in the SB, as it helps keep the deck's assets safe, and in a pinch can take a bite out of opposing planeswalkers, if not destroy them. Also, added reach if games get close.
4 Chain to the Rocks
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Warleader's Helix
Creatures
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Loxodon Smiter
Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Mountain
4 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Banishing Light
3 Assemble the Legion
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Pithing Needle
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Round 1 against Max playing Uw Devotion.
Game 1, I started out slow (as is the MO of the deck), but Anger followed by Anger combined with Max mana screwed left me plenty of time to come out on top. Ajani did work, finding Chains to KO a Master of Waves, and then digging out an Elspeth to get the show on the road.
SB-out: Loxodon Smiter x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2; Nissa, Worldwaker x 1
SB-in: Mistcutter Hydra x 4; Banishing Light x 3
Game 2, I mulled to six (five-lander!), but had three scrylands in my opener which found me my removal. Max got Thassa online which met a Selesnya Charm, I fell to 13 before Anger took care of an unfortunate over-extension. I decided to race with double Mistcutters on 5 which took me the rest of the way.
I think the game was decided when I got greedy, playing a Courser on turn 3 hoping for some lifegain/lands instead of Angering away a solo Nightveil Specter. Instead of a land, Courser reveals a Banishing Light. Lovely. I knew whatever was revealed would get gobbled up by the Specter, but I didn't want to 1-for-1 with the Anger. Nightveil connects and takes the Banishing Light, but instead of taking out my Courser (Max had plenty of white mana), he instead played another Neightveil Specter. They were eaten by the Anger, and the Mistcutters followed shortly afterwards.
2-0 games, 1-0 matches.
Round 2 against David playing BG Corpsejack counters.
Game 1, David was largely color screwed, only hitting his forests, and eventually once he hit black mana it was his scrylands. Nissa and 4/4 trample creatures went tape-to-tape, with some removal getting blockers out of the way for full damage.
SB-out: Nissa, Worldwaker x 2; Warleader's Helix x 1; Ajani, Mentor of Heroes x 1 (?: this might have been a Chandra instead)
SB-in: Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1; Assemble the Legion x 3
Game 2, despite the Corpsejack Menaces and Dreg Manglers, I thought I was going against Bg Devotion. This was a very, very tight game. I fell to 6 before managing to close it out. Timely removal on a seemingly never-ending supply of Dreg Manglers and Corpsejack Menaces allowed Assemble the Legion and Xenagos to do god's work. David never found his Golgari Charms.
BG is not a color combination that this deck matches up well against. Everything Naya Control throws at it go right into it's wheelhouse. While this wasn't the dreaded Bg Devotion deck, these games were still very tight. One well-timed Golgari Charm, or Abrupt Decay on a Chained to the Rocks and things could have ended differently.
4-0 games, 2-0 matches.
Round 3 against Sam playing Rw Burn.
Game 1, total blow out haha. I kept a slow hand and had no answers for Chandra's Phoenixes and tons of burn. Sam hit three lands (one Mutavault) and had a full grip all game. I had no shot. Looking back, he finished game 1 at 9 life, which was due to his Battlefield Forge pinging him over and over!
SB-out: Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1; Selesnya Charm x 4
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3; Ruric Thar, the Unbowed x 2
Game 2, Sam flooded out, I got a bunch of life off an unmolested Courser, and Ajani found Ruric for the concession.
Game 3, another total blow out. I notice that in my notes, I didn't even keep track of life totals. I went from 20 to 0 in four turns.
Naya Control has an issue with Burn. It is precisely this reason that I need to fit at least one more Warleader's Helix, if not two. I'm unsure of the cuts, however. The original Yanyuk list ran four Centaur Healer in the SB specifically because Burn is such a popular deck. I like the idea, but don't know under what other matches I'd ever run them in, which keeps me from considering them that heavily. Plus, what do I cut from the board?
5-2 games, 2-1 matches.
Round 4 against Steven planing Mono-R Rabblemaster.
Game 1, Steven got me down to 8 before double Coursers pulled me back from the brink. Anger of the Gods cleared the way for what eventually were three 4/4 trample lands courtesy of Nissa.
SB-out: Xenagos, the Reveler x 2; Selesnya Charm x1
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3
Game 2, I admit, I did not take this deck seriously. I misplayed my land drop on turn 2, playing a second Temple of Plenty instead of a Temple of Abandon, and as such I didn't have double red on turn 3 to Anger away a soon to be lethal goblin army. Instead, I played a Courser, which was immediately Mortared, and the ensuing alpha got me low enough where I couldn't recover, despite getting the Anger off on turn 4. Steven's burn finished me off.
Game 3, I ran it back and made no SB changes. Serious-face time, I took Steven's threats much less lightly, using Chains on such powerhouse cards like Goblin Kaboomist and Foundry Street Denizen, haha. The targeted removal was enough to force an over-extension that was met with an Anger. Again, Nissa and 4/4 trample lands went the distance.
I now firmly believe that Rabblemaster Red is going to be a force post-rotation. There is almost no way it can't be. Anger of the Gods is a stone-cold must against really fast aggro decks, and I hope there's some kind of red sweeper that can replace Mizzium Mortars in Khans.
7-3 games, 3-1 matches.
Cut to Top-4 (It was the morning event which is usually smaller. We had 13 people iirc)
Semi-finals against Alan playing Jund Walkers.
Game 1, I mulled to five, but Alan was stuck on only two lands. It was not an engaging match in the least. I think I just ran him over with Loxodon Smiters.
SB-out: Chain to the Rocks x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3; Ruric Thar, the Unbowed x 2; Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1
Game 2 was the opposite of Game 1. I was stuck on "only" four lands, but it wasn't enough to get multiple threats or any pressure on Alan. I was eventually done in by Garruk, Apex Predator. At last count, before a lethal attack, I was at 3 and Alan was at 30 haha!
SB-out: Selesnya Charm x 4; Chandra, Pyromaster x 2
SB-in: Chained to the Rocks x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2
Game 3, I realized I sided wrong and needed the extra removal. This game was an excruciatingly close, back and forth affair. I believe I punted when Alan had six total mana available (four lands, an Elvish Mystic and a Sylvan Caryatid). I think I should have Chained the mana dork, as if he had a land drop, he would have the mana to cast big Garruk. Instead, I opted to wait until I had six mana for a Ruric Thar, followed by an overloaded Mizzium Mortars. Alan had the land, played the Garruk, blew up my Smiter and passed. I played Ruric and passed, knowing Garruk was only on 2 loyalty, and the Mortars would take out the beast token along with the other creatures (and yes, taking six damage courtesy of my newly-minted Ruric Thar).
Alan managed to topdeck mana dork blockers to keep Ruric at bay, followed by a Vraska to take him out. I had a Banishing Light for the Vraska, but a Rakdos' Return for 5 meant we were both top-decking. It was a little ridiculous haha. He would top-deck a creature or threat, and it would meet my top-deck removal. I got Alan down to 2, with me at 7. He top-decks a Stormbreath Dragon putting me to 3, and I need to answer with either a Warleader's Helix for the win or a Mizzium Mortars to at least prolong the game. I reveal the top of my library, and it's a Stomping Grounds. GG, Alan (no pun intended, Alan was a very sweet guy. Happy to lose to him. He eventually took the Game Day Championship playmat against Sam).
In hindsight, I had no idea why I didn't side in the Pithing Needles against a deck that runs something like eight or 10 planeswalkers! You'd think that would have been a good idea haha! Also in hindsight, finding room for at least one more Warleader's Helix or some kind of legit life gain is important for this deck going forward. I'm also surprised that in all my games, Chandra was a non-factor. She zeroed me some cards in I think the first game against Alan, but he was mana screwed so it was largely symbolic. Even against the aggro decks, I didn't really see many X/1s I wanted to use her +1 on, preferring to get more value via a sweeper.
Post-rotation, I don't think the deck can stay as-is. Losing the shocklands is just too much, as despite having the painlands, they aren't mountains that are necessary for Chained to the Rocks. An option is to lean much more heavily on RW, with a G splash, but said splash would be for double-green Coursers and Nissa? It's a stretch. Maybe RG, splashing W... although really the big prize of going W over B is Elspeth, which is another stretch for a splash color. We have to hope Khans has a decent sweeper in R to replace Mizzium Mortars, and something like Path to Exile to replace the Chains haha.
Since this report, I have gone -1 Selesnya Charm, +1 Warleader's Helix in the main. The SB may need a bit of an overhaul; it's a dog to RW Burn, and WU Control requires a ton of work to get wins. But the SB strats for those match-ups are so different, I don't think it's worth watering down both solutions just to fit within the 15-card limit. It obviously depends on the meta, but I'm leaning towards the hedge against RW Burn. Something like +4 Centaur Healers, +2 Last Breath; -1 Elspeth, -2 Pithing Needles, -1 Mistcutter, -1 Assemble, -1 Banishing Light. Also, Warden of the Beyond could be a replacement for Loxodon Smiters. So much of the removal exiles. Worth testing when Khans rotates in.
I've never seen someone I do that to NOT re-read Bile Blight. They think it's like Slaughter Games or Thoughtseize where you "name a card."
Anyway, Game Day report I suppose. Took 3rd (upon further review, I did indeed take 3rd, not 3rd/4th) with Naya Control, losing to Jund Walkers in the semis. Here's the list I ran:
4 Chain to the Rocks
4 Selesnya Charm
4 Anger of the Gods
4 Mizzium Mortars
2 Warleader's Helix
Creatures
4 Courser of Kruphix
4 Loxodon Smiter
Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
2 Xenagos, the Reveler
2 Ajani, Mentor of Heroes
2 Nissa, Worldwaker
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
4 Stomping Ground
4 Temple Garden
4 Sacred Foundry
4 Temple of Abandon
4 Temple of Plenty
3 Temple of Triumph
2 Mountain
4 Mistcutter Hydra
3 Banishing Light
3 Assemble the Legion
2 Ruric Thar, the Unbowed
2 Pithing Needle
1 Elspeth, Sun's Champion
Round 1 against Max playing Uw Devotion.
Game 1, I started out slow (as is the MO of the deck), but Anger followed by Anger combined with Max mana screwed left me plenty of time to come out on top. Ajani did work, finding Chains to KO a Master of Waves, and then digging out an Elspeth to get the show on the road.
SB-out: Loxodon Smiter x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2; Nissa, Worldwaker x 1
SB-in: Mistcutter Hydra x 4; Banishing Light x 3
Game 2, I mulled to six (five-lander!), but had three scrylands in my opener which found me my removal. Max got Thassa online which met a Selesnya Charm, I fell to 13 before Anger took care of an unfortunate over-extension. I decided to race with double Mistcutters on 5 which took me the rest of the way.
I think the game was decided when I got greedy, playing a Courser on turn 3 hoping for some lifegain/lands instead of Angering away a solo Nightveil Specter. Instead of a land, Courser reveals a Banishing Light. Lovely. I knew whatever was revealed would get gobbled up by the Specter, but I didn't want to 1-for-1 with the Anger. Nightveil connects and takes the Banishing Light, but instead of taking out my Courser (Max had plenty of white mana), he instead played another Neightveil Specter. They were eaten by the Anger, and the Mistcutters followed shortly afterwards.
2-0 games, 1-0 matches.
Round 2 against David playing BG Corpsejack counters.
Game 1, David was largely color screwed, only hitting his forests, and eventually once he hit black mana it was his scrylands. Nissa and 4/4 trample creatures went tape-to-tape, with some removal getting blockers out of the way for full damage.
SB-out: Nissa, Worldwaker x 2; Warleader's Helix x 1; Ajani, Mentor of Heroes x 1 (?: this might have been a Chandra instead)
SB-in: Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1; Assemble the Legion x 3
Game 2, despite the Corpsejack Menaces and Dreg Manglers, I thought I was going against Bg Devotion. This was a very, very tight game. I fell to 6 before managing to close it out. Timely removal on a seemingly never-ending supply of Dreg Manglers and Corpsejack Menaces allowed Assemble the Legion and Xenagos to do god's work. David never found his Golgari Charms.
BG is not a color combination that this deck matches up well against. Everything Naya Control throws at it go right into it's wheelhouse. While this wasn't the dreaded Bg Devotion deck, these games were still very tight. One well-timed Golgari Charm, or Abrupt Decay on a Chained to the Rocks and things could have ended differently.
4-0 games, 2-0 matches.
Round 3 against Sam playing Rw Burn.
Game 1, total blow out haha. I kept a slow hand and had no answers for Chandra's Phoenixes and tons of burn. Sam hit three lands (one Mutavault) and had a full grip all game. I had no shot. Looking back, he finished game 1 at 9 life, which was due to his Battlefield Forge pinging him over and over!
SB-out: Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1; Selesnya Charm x 4
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3; Ruric Thar, the Unbowed x 2
Game 2, Sam flooded out, I got a bunch of life off an unmolested Courser, and Ajani found Ruric for the concession.
Game 3, another total blow out. I notice that in my notes, I didn't even keep track of life totals. I went from 20 to 0 in four turns.
Naya Control has an issue with Burn. It is precisely this reason that I need to fit at least one more Warleader's Helix, if not two. I'm unsure of the cuts, however. The original Yanyuk list ran four Centaur Healer in the SB specifically because Burn is such a popular deck. I like the idea, but don't know under what other matches I'd ever run them in, which keeps me from considering them that heavily. Plus, what do I cut from the board?
5-2 games, 2-1 matches.
Round 4 against Steven planing Mono-R Rabblemaster.
Game 1, Steven got me down to 8 before double Coursers pulled me back from the brink. Anger of the Gods cleared the way for what eventually were three 4/4 trample lands courtesy of Nissa.
SB-out: Xenagos, the Reveler x 2; Selesnya Charm x1
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3
Game 2, I admit, I did not take this deck seriously. I misplayed my land drop on turn 2, playing a second Temple of Plenty instead of a Temple of Abandon, and as such I didn't have double red on turn 3 to Anger away a soon to be lethal goblin army. Instead, I played a Courser, which was immediately Mortared, and the ensuing alpha got me low enough where I couldn't recover, despite getting the Anger off on turn 4. Steven's burn finished me off.
Game 3, I ran it back and made no SB changes. Serious-face time, I took Steven's threats much less lightly, using Chains on such powerhouse cards like Goblin Kaboomist and Foundry Street Denizen, haha. The targeted removal was enough to force an over-extension that was met with an Anger. Again, Nissa and 4/4 trample lands went the distance.
I now firmly believe that Rabblemaster Red is going to be a force post-rotation. There is almost no way it can't be. Anger of the Gods is a stone-cold must against really fast aggro decks, and I hope there's some kind of red sweeper that can replace Mizzium Mortars in Khans.
7-3 games, 3-1 matches.
Cut to Top-4 (It was the morning event which is usually smaller. We had 13 people iirc)
Semi-finals against Alan playing Jund Walkers.
Game 1, I mulled to five, but Alan was stuck on only two lands. It was not an engaging match in the least. I think I just ran him over with Loxodon Smiters.
SB-out: Chain to the Rocks x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2
SB-in: Banishing Light x 3; Ruric Thar, the Unbowed x 2; Elspeth, Sun's Champion x 1
Game 2 was the opposite of Game 1. I was stuck on "only" four lands, but it wasn't enough to get multiple threats or any pressure on Alan. I was eventually done in by Garruk, Apex Predator. At last count, before a lethal attack, I was at 3 and Alan was at 30 haha!
SB-out: Selesnya Charm x 4; Chandra, Pyromaster x 2
SB-in: Chained to the Rocks x 4; Warleader's Helix x 2
Game 3, I realized I sided wrong and needed the extra removal. This game was an excruciatingly close, back and forth affair. I believe I punted when Alan had six total mana available (four lands, an Elvish Mystic and a Sylvan Caryatid). I think I should have Chained the mana dork, as if he had a land drop, he would have the mana to cast big Garruk. Instead, I opted to wait until I had six mana for a Ruric Thar, followed by an overloaded Mizzium Mortars. Alan had the land, played the Garruk, blew up my Smiter and passed. I played Ruric and passed, knowing Garruk was only on 2 loyalty, and the Mortars would take out the beast token along with the other creatures (and yes, taking six damage courtesy of my newly-minted Ruric Thar).
Alan managed to topdeck mana dork blockers to keep Ruric at bay, followed by a Vraska to take him out. I had a Banishing Light for the Vraska, but a Rakdos' Return for 5 meant we were both top-decking. It was a little ridiculous haha. He would top-deck a creature or threat, and it would meet my top-deck removal. I got Alan down to 2, with me at 7. He top-decks a Stormbreath Dragon putting me to 3, and I need to answer with either a Warleader's Helix for the win or a Mizzium Mortars to at least prolong the game. I reveal the top of my library, and it's a Stomping Grounds. GG, Alan (no pun intended, Alan was a very sweet guy. Happy to lose to him. He eventually took the Game Day Championship playmat against Sam).
In hindsight, I had no idea why I didn't side in the Pithing Needles against a deck that runs something like eight or 10 planeswalkers! You'd think that would have been a good idea haha! Also in hindsight, finding room for at least one more Warleader's Helix or some kind of legit life gain is important for this deck going forward. I'm also surprised that in all my games, Chandra was a non-factor. She zeroed me some cards in I think the first game against Alan, but he was mana screwed so it was largely symbolic. Even against the aggro decks, I didn't really see many X/1s I wanted to use her +1 on, preferring to get more value via a sweeper.
Post-rotation, I don't think the deck can stay as-is. Losing the shocklands is just too much, as despite having the painlands, they aren't mountains that are necessary for Chained to the Rocks. An option is to lean much more heavily on RW, with a G splash, but said splash would be for double-green Coursers and Nissa? It's a stretch. Maybe RG, splashing W... although really the big prize of going W over B is Elspeth, which is another stretch for a splash color. We have to hope Khans has a decent sweeper in R, and something like Path to Exile to replace the Chains haha.
I always felt the backbone of the deck was the 4-ofs of all the removal: Chained to the Rocks, Selesnya Charm, Anger of the Gods and Mizzium Mortars. At the time it was designed, mono-B and mono-U were the decks to beat, and those four cards covered virtually all of their threats. Things have changed since then. Where Assemble the Legion was an auto-win against mono-B, Bile Blight can throw a wrench in that plan. The rise of WU control has been a thorn in my side, most because I'm an idiot and don't know the match up very well, but I need to get the Ruric Thars back in the SB.
The list I currently run eschewed the Stormbreath Dragons in favor of the Coursers. The Courses plus Chandra becomes a very powerful combination, such that I run three Chandra (but may cut it to two in order begin fitting some GW Ajanis). My list also had a bit of trouble with fast aggro and adding Warleader's Helix provided some much-needed life-gain. It also helps combat Bile Blight, as if you suspect one is coming, you just helix the soldier token the opponent is targeting. It's a "next level play" (/eyeroll) that's won me several games against mono-B.
I really like this deck archetype and, depending on how slow Khans is, might be a decent rogue choice no one expects.
This past season, Naya Control could eat mono-B devotion's lunch as long as they weren't splashing green, so I was happy to see a number of pros running BW midrange at the Pro Tour, and the post-board matchup against WU control isn't horrifyingly bad (although I usually play it poorly). The linked lists lose roughly half of their creature elimination spells, so I think leaning on white and red, splashing green, is what I want to attempt.
Losing Loxodon Smiter is going to smell, but maybe Fanatic of Xenagos or Warden of the Beyond can fill that role. Or just put the Stormbreath Dragons back in. I'll want to see the fixing in Khans before I commit, but as long as mono-B hangs around, I think Naya control has a seat at the table.
Could you speak about this a bit more? I never thought about it before, but it makes sense that if you're holding a grip full of counter and removal (as opposed to creatures), there are a lot dead cards in the opponent's deck and hands, thus focusing Thoughtseize into an even more crippling removal spell. What were you seeing (and taking) with your thoughtseizes? Depending on the mana in Kahns of Tarkir, if it's a wedge block (crosses fingers), BUG will be a force. As will Ashiok, once Abrupt Decay has rotated out.
I'm running a list similar to the Hoogland/Poisoned_1 list a couple pages ago. I don't think I'm ready to give up my Coursers, Caryatids or Prognostic Sphinxes just yet. Also, I still haven't found MJ's BUGw list haha. Thanks for the write-up.
MJ hasn't touched the list since, so it's like finding a needle in a haystack. It's not like he's going to highlight an 0-2 drop, or whatever his record was for that event.
Ninja edit: I remember him casting Silence the Believers and striving it for value. If that helps haha.
I'm using Lanxal's 360 as a base for a pauper cube tuned for sealed play (so at the very least it will have... a lot more cards haha). In my experience, sealed cubes need to be adjusted for multi-color play, more mana-fixing, and gourmet artifact destruction, which hasn't been that tough to fill at common. Suggestions welcome, though!
Also got a coworker sucked back into magic, and he liked the idea of a pauper cube to draft with his board game cronies, so I sent him to this thread. He was hoping for an easier way to just purchase all the cards in the original 360, so I was wondering if it would be possible to edit the OP with a single deck list after the breakdown that has all the cards (for ease of just hitting the tcg link and bam, all the cards are in his cart). Just a thought!
I don't think I like Sphere of Safety. It's a troll kind of card, and can be fun to watch the oppo squirm, but when there's burn and Gray Merchants about, I've seen games decided without the attack step being a deciding factor (for real, I've been smoked by the combo of Vizkopa Guildmage, Tavern Swindler, and some lucky coin flips haha). Doomwake Giant kind of fills a similar role in that it can stop alphas from occurring, if only because it can wipe out weenies easily in a deck like this.
Heliod, God of the Sun could also probably fit, as the tokens he makes are enchantment creatures. If only there were more usable Constellation creatures. Just some ideas.
I once flashed in a Conjured Currency on my opponent's end step (thank you, Alchemist's Refuge) to steal his just-summoned Griselbrand during my upkeep. He's a cop, and I was afraid he was going to shoot me.
Per Deicide, yeah, really fantastic art. Really want to see a larger version. I'll find some room to put this and Banishing Light somewhere in the 75 of my Naya control list.
Thanks for the replies, all. Right now my meta is unknown: we don't know where we're going to find games, but we're in the Philly/Jersey area. When we used to play, there was Workshop, Gushbond, Tinker/Colossus and Oath (that I can remember). Probably other stuff. But that was years ago, and a lot of the places we played, at least in Jersey, have left this mortal coil. The Dredge list I put together was based off a 2008 Malaysian championship deck, I think. Tuned to his/her meta, certainly, but it was powerless, near-mana-less, and won with the usual Flame-kin Zealot DR target. It ran a bit of enchant/artifact hate main in the form of three or four Nature's Claim, along with two Chalice of the Void main as well. It was pretty fast, turn 2 wins often, but as mentioned not that tough to disrupt. The list as-was had a tough time with a Tinkered-in BSC, so I switched out the Nature's Claims for Chain of Vapor.
I like the "more mana" versions posted above (if only for Petrified Field) and will probably try to shoehorn in a DR package.
I'm curious, do the non-DR versions just nickle and dime the opponent with 2/2 zombies over several turns? Or is there something I'm missing? I used to play Dredge, as Beralt mentions, back when it was called Ichorid. Relying on Unmasks and Cabal Therapy to hopefully clear the way for an alpha on turn 2 or so, courtesy of a Flame-kin Zealot and a bunch of zombies. Is this still the way Dredge wins?
I started playing Standard again (sweet Baby Oprah, save me!) when Innistrad dropped, but my playgroup is getting back into Vintage. I feel obligated to ruin their lives by dusting off Old Faithful haha. Thanks!