Have you considered Faith of the Devoted, each wheel generates a lot of discard triggers from it which don't pay for until the wheel finishes resolving, meaning kydele can cover the cost easily.
It also works nice with skirge familiar as discarding to familiar triggers it and pays the cost for the trigger.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
•If the deck has a theme or unique idea, what is it?
Artifacts all the way, kikijiki and goblin welder are the only red permanents.
•What archetype(s) does the deck fit in?
Ramp
•Why do you like it so much?
Because people tend to under value ramp as a threat until it is too late, in one game someone cyclonic rifted and in response I floated mana, then after it resolved dropped shimmer myr to return everything to the board. I won the game on my next turn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
There's a ruling somewhere that I can't seem to find at the moment that says something along the lines of "A player is assumed to be passing priority after playing a spell or activating an ability unless they specifically state that they are retaining priority." If the player casts Cabal Therapy in this situation and then looks at you, I would start by saying "In response..." and then see if he says anything. If he doesn't, play the Krosan Grip.
The above doesn't apply as he hasn't just played a spell or ability, the rector ability has just resolved
The active player always gets priority after a spell / ability resolves, meaning he has priority until he specifically passes it.
If he is just blankly staring at you, ask if he is passing priority or ask him for priority.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
I'm having trouble with the Living Death match, there are a couple of them in my local meta and I cannot seem to deal with them. Any tips on playing this match up?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
Yes you'll choose which one to apply, when multiple replacement effects attempt to modify an event, the affected objects controller (or owner if no controller) chooses which order to apply them in.
The MTG CR actually has a very similar case as an example for interaction of multiple replacement effects Rule 616.1
Example: Two permanents are on the battlefield. One is an enchantment that reads “If a card would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, instead exile it,” and the other is a creature that reads “If [this creature] would be put into a graveyard from the battlefield, instead shuffle it into its owner’s library.” If the creature is destroyed, its controller decides which replacement to apply first; the other does nothing
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
Myr matrix does not have the subtype myr, so it is not a myr card, you cannot use myr reservoir to pay for it or it's abilities.
You are correct, the only time you can tap myr for the battlesphere's ability is as it resolves, you cannot activate other abilities during its resolution.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
Dies is short hand for put into a graveyard from the battlefield, sacrificing a creature will move it from the battlefield to the graveyard, so it will trigger blood artist and the like.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
Actually that method is a far better method of determining the value of the "average" box.
For example a set that had all rares/mythics in the $5-$7 range but had a mythic at $100. Almost every box is worth the same except for ones with the good mythic.
But determining the value of the average box is meant to be a predictor for the likely value you'll get from a box, if you don't exclude the mythic from average calculation then almost every box opened from this example set would be below this average predicted value.
You want an average box price determined that gives the median box price, ie 50% higher, 50% lower. Without excluding extremes the calculation is unlikely to come close to this ideal as demonstrated above with the simple example.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
Packs in a draft are officially tournament materials until drafting is complete. Leaving with the contents of a pack is stealing and is likely to land you with a ban if the TO/Judge reports it. The extra $100 from the $150 you already got is not worth getting banned from sanctioned events.
Also if your judge allows replacement packs or does not punish a person boosting with the contents of packs I would encourage you to report them.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
I'm looking to construct this deck and was wondering if the inclusion of village bell ringer was still a thing? I understand that he doesn't interact with pod, but with something like cunning sparkmage, he can be key in pulling out a win past soul sisters and any deck running ghostly prison.
Village Bell ringers doesn't help at all on the ghostly prison front, the first thing you do before receiving priority in the declare attackers step is declare attackers, at which point you have to pay for ghostly prison.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
I'm confused as to what you're responding to here.
Re:Eron I like your points on him. He's become one of my top suspects.
The quote tags got messed up somehow, I was responding to iPot's ask awesomesauce point. His behaviour doesn't seem any different than in the last game I played with him.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
No it was not sudden, I expressed my concern with you earlier in the thread, you attempted to deflect from a wagon beginning on you by saying every replacement accused someone new.
I did say that. Was it not true? At the point where I said that I had no reason to fear being mislynched. I pointed out that stuff because I saw everyone spreading their attention instead seeking closure in any of the two strong wagons on hand with the deadline looming. It seemed to me that diverting our attention like that was something that could only benefit scum.
Most the the replacements did like someone new as scum and someone who already had a wagon rolling. It's the timing of when you choose to point it out, as soon as you were included in their list.
I read your response to ETR, the slip is what put you above Rhand and KK for me and you didn't address it.
I precisely asked you that because I did address the "slip"... not the best defence, I know, but I did address it. Here it is:
Quote from Me »
Reads as "I'm not really sure what to do now, because I've already confirmed for the town that we don't have day talk and I've committed really hard to the KK wagon and can't jump off very easily."
I just had to search the site for this. Until you mentioned it, I had no idea that there was such a thing as day talk for scum (which strikes me as super unfair and I seriously hope it's not the case for this game as I don't see how can we possibly win if the scum team can concert their efforts, specially with this shortened deadline.) Is that why you said I had slipped before? Obviously now you'll say that I'm feigning ignorance and I seriously don't know how to prove it, so feel free, I guess.
I missed that bit somehow, still all you can do is claim ignorance to the point, I guess that means the point is null in determining if you are scum or not.
On the Wessel "claim-test" lynch: I understand the reasons why it poses minimal risk and a chance of great accomplishment (if he's truly lying and he's scum.) However, I have to ask you to consider this: If we just lynch Wessel and his claim is proven true and the day ends, we'd have gained no information at all (except knowing Wessel's town for sure.) We basically skipped the day (but not the night!) and we'll start day 3 with no further clues or leads than what we have today and one player less (unless there's no NK again?) It all seems terribly wasteful to me. Then again it's because that claim rings so true to me. Is there anyone thinking that it's more likely that he flips scum at all?
I'm reading wessel as town so am against the test lynch, as we gain limited information. If we end up in MYLO I would lynch wessel as we can't mislynch him and it would make process of elimination easier if his role saved and confirmed him.
And as I've stated in the past I hate that statement. If you're conscious of that biased animosity toward PSR, then remove it altogether from your read on Wessel instead of leaving it open as a backdoor. I'd like you to do that, in fact, and restate your read on Wessel.
I don't know what to tell you. I have several problems in mafia, and one of them is separating initial thoughts from thoughts later down the line. Once I dislike how a person has played, I tend to view everything as negative. Going off of everything since the initial PSR play to now, I still don't know what to think. In general I disliked PSR's play(crazy aggressive for almost no reason twice). The refusal to claim is also working against Wessel since I'm still not convinced t here are no safe claims.
Trying to be invisible: Simply put, I'm not. Ask Awesomesauce, I have been roughly as active in this game as I was in my last one here. Being vocal is not one of my strong points, not until I've become more comfortable in this meta. In my normal group, I'm much more active(both a positive and a negative)because I interact with them(both in mafia and in the forums in general)so much more that I know their mannerisms more, and as well they know mine. Here I am trying to learn to play with an entirely new group of people, one that even PLAYS differently than the people I normally play with. I'm trying to acclimate myself, but I'm a slow adapter.
Unfortunately iPot's behaviour doesn't seem any different to Deitriptychos mafia. I suspected him of being scum due to it, even faked a daykill on him which changed my mind due to his response.
Ok - I decided to take a look back over the game and see what I can come up with focusing around Kosa. Kosa was not voted at all at the point that he made his claim which came on 11/29. It went mostly ignored until 11/30 at which point a few people made comments but no real opinion on the matter, including (which I didn't notice on my first read through) a comment made by PSR/Wessel just throwing out that he shouldn't have claimed. Tezz is the first person to have a straight negative reaction. The first vote though, didn't come until 12/1 from JD in this post.
Funny timing I call you on an inconsistency and then you decide I'm scum. I had intended to reread you as the inconsistency bothered me, hadn't got around to it yet.
@Passenger: the vote is the strongest tool the town has true. But it not just for voting who you think is scum, It can be used to pressure answers from people, provoke reactions. Essentially clever use of a vote can help you get a read on someone.
Truk vs PSR.
Both sides of this debate keep misrepresenting points, I don't think either side has raised a solid point against each other.
PSR has his aggressive stab against iPot leaning against him and Truk has the mass claim possible as a sore point but these are relatively weak points, ultimately I think we have a case of town vs town here.
To me currently the most suspicious person is KK. He takes the opportunity to drop in a claim while mass claims was being discussed, despite the consensus leaning toward not claiming.
Most of his posts this game have been RVS or related to his prematured claim, I see very little pro-town behaviour in any of the posts.
vote KK
Knowing now that KK was town, I see this post as an attempt to get the train rolling on Kosa, which ~4 people had already blown off at that point as noob behavior.
This lead me into looking more at JD's other posts.
Yes I started the wagon because I believed he took the opportunity to drop a false claim.
Again, I will be honest and say that this is my first Mafia game on this or any other forum. My mafia experience is pretty much limited to reading the Theory thread every once in a while, and reading over the mafiascum wiki page for certain concepts. Any relation to another thread is coincidence entirely. I'm not a gimmick account for anyone if that's what you're trying to insinuate.
Moving on: the reason for my question is simply to analyze people's reasons for a Kosakosa lynch. Everyone seemed to jump on board very quickly once he claimed early and then got defensive after being attacked by Tetris. Perhaps because I'm inexperienced, but I want to hear from people what exactly it is about Kosa that rubbed you the wrong way. If his claim was so egregious as to make him the #1 lynch target, why Kosa (who simply was the first to respond to Truk's claim proposal) and not Truk himself for suggesting the claim? I really just want an explanation for a) why Kosa's claim was such a scum tell and b) what possible non-scum motivations he could have had for doing it.
As far as the last segment of my post: I am far too busy to do an actual post-by-post analysis this morning, but if one is requested I can do it late tonight. What I meant by that was that my original suspicion of Phoenix stays, and that I have the same read I did on him as I did when I cast my vote, since nothing he has done has convinced me otherwise.
For those interested, my reads: Scum
Phoenix: Reasons stated above
Truk: his reasons for suggesting the claim in the first place haven't been solid, and he seems to be willing to change his vote to whomever is currently under suspicion. Leaning Scum
Kosakosa: after it was explained to me I can see why claiming early can be a scumtell. But I also see it as simple inexperience, given that I also didn't understand that such a thing was anti-town behavior, so I'm not going to say he's my top suspect yet until he responds to answer my question above.
Another post I dislike.
Use of the word honest is a language scum tell usually, I regret not following through on it in Vampire Mafia.
Also the use of the newb card can be a scum tell.
I also dislike the bit about KK at the bottom, its half defense, half leaving an opening to join the wagon.
First you call out that you don't like the use of the word honest as well as pointing out that you regret not following through on it previously and yet you don't here. You also use the KK wagon (that ended up being a mislynch) to set up negative feelings towards HAndS.
This is a stretch, I knew this far in advance that I was going to cause a mislynch on KK and could get HnS.
In reality, I dislike the word honest but its not enough to go on day 1. In vampire mafia there were two players left, it's a bit more valid in that POE step IMO.
Also you'll note HnS / Rhand as been near the top of my scum list since this post.
Welcome you be, Eron. It's good to be playing with you again so quickly.
PSR answered your PBPA on him and yet refused to outline his reasons for vote me, dismissing your questions with a hand-wave disguised as an "How can't you see it?" slightly OMGUS.
Vote PSR
Besides him, I'm leaning scum for Allwin, who still hadn't explained all those reasons to find me scummy in his opinion.
He did not refuse to outline his reasons for voting you, he said he wanted to the PBPA in its own post.
Funny how you apply pressure here to try derail your own wagon just as Eron presents a case.
If you believe PSR committed OMGUS by voting someone who is voting them, you have just done so to PSR, and have pseudo done so to Allwin.
He is constantly refusing to lay out HIS reasons, HIS arguments for voting me. And incredibly, most people here, including you, seem to be ok with that.
Some reasoning for your most and least scummy would be great. Not the whole list but maybe bottom and top 3?
There's no point in doing the town end of the list, the game is about scumhunting not townhunting.
Providing reasons for why someone is town is pointless unless that person is at risk of being lynched. Otherwise it just helps scum pick off towny players.
I didn't think much of it at the time, but this post doesn't make sense to me. It seems like a way of earning town points. Whenever people do a T/S list they include reasoning on why they think their town reads are what they are.
Townhunting in my opinion helps scum, read some of my other games, in fact you were in Gotham with me in which I called SciSolaris? on this exact point.
Sorry I misread your statement on the L-1 point, you were not talking about KK.
KK was at L-1 at that point.
And you were saying you were comfortable voting PSR because it wasn't the L-1 vote.
I don't understand why, if you were fine with a KK lynch, you didn't lynch him there. PSR could always wait for day 2 and you would be one of your lead suspects down.
Take this however you will, but I have an irrational fear of players having the bomb role. I've died to that role more times than night kills and lynches combined, so the last year or so I've tried to avoid dropping a hammer if I could.
Again there seems to be an inconsistency in logic here, you believe KK to be scum but didn't hammer because he is the bomb.
Bomb is a always town role, meaning KK can't be scum and the bomb.
In the event KK is town, he's VT, so there is no bomb risk.
It seems like you are holding out for an extra claim on D1.
There's no town reason to force another claim here as you could only lynch one of your two scum candidates.
It reads like you are trying to narrow down the PR's.
Fair enough, I can see why it would look that way. Keep in mind though that my vote that put him at L-2 came after he said he wouldn't claim. I didn't vote him to make him claim, I voted him so that no one could say "how do you find two people scummy and not have a vote on either." And because I happen to find him more scummy than KK. I would rather see a PSR lynch than a KK lynch today.
True, you did put him back after he said he wouldn't claim.
But your reason presented when I questioned you at first was to remove the "I'm not even at L-2 defence", a claim related reason for voting him.
Now you say didnt vote him to make him claim, but to avoid suspicion on yourself.
Something about "I voted him to remove a reason for not claiming" and "I didn't vote him to make him claim" doesn't quite mesh up.
If I had to pick a scum team right now it would be KK, iPot and Rhand.
There are several posts like this where JD is subtly pushing people to vote for KK. I don't like these.
I thought I was actively pushing for KK and not really being subtle about it. Trying to take a page from Iso as he normally manages to get his suspect lynched that way. I'm seem to not be able to get people to follow me unless I have an investigation result.
OMG, people. You know that this discussion is getting nowhere and we are about 30 hours from deadline. Stop persuing each other and wait for the next Day to continue. The bickering that is going on now is near pointless since we don't even have a flip yet.
Lynch me so we this Day can finish.
As far as I'm concerned lynching you achieves nothing. You are town.
There was no scum reason for you to refuse to claim and the same again for you advocating your own lynch.
KK should be the lynch today, at worse we lynch claimed VT, at best scum, this are the best two possible results day 1.
KK hasn't done anything to redeem himself since his claim.
Clearing KK based on your read on Rhand seems like a folly too, nothing you have pointed out seems to clear KK.
Also reaching the deadline isn't as bad in this game as in others all that happens is the lynch threshold is reduced and votes reset, and then it repeats every 3 days until either a lynch is voted for or no lynch is voted for.
Another post attempting to keep people on track with KK.
I have a heavy lean on JD coming up scum at this point. A lot of what he has been doing is subtly pushing against the wagons, and he was the first one to vote KK after his claim, but it occured three days later.
I was away for the beginning of the game if you recall.
Here was my first post back
I'm back home now and just skim read the game. I intended to post more while I was away but the phone app for MTGS sucks.
Anyway I've had a quick skim read and will have a more thorough read through after I have unpacked and etc.
Thoughts from skim read.
Anti Mass claim of any form day 1. The suggestion makes me dislike Truk.
KK's claim is either anti-town or scum, he has narrowed down the possible targets for PR's if he is telling the truth (antitown) or is scum running a gambit.
I'm also not finding myself liking Phoenix any better from the skim read.
More after I give the game a reread.
After the reread was the KK vote post as he was my leading scum suspect.
JD has come up pretty townie in a lot of his posts and therefore has stayed under my radar for a lot of the game. I think I was also swayed by the fact that he got on the Mao wagon late day 2, but I'm thinking now that it was scum jumping off the KK wagon that he started in order not to be tied to it when KK flipped town.
Nitpick I joined the Maokun Wagon late day 1 and I was on the Rhand wagon at that point, during the course of day one I had 3 major scum suspects, KK first, HnS/Rhand second and then late in the day Maokun. I was wrong about KK, and was fully prepared to jump back on to be the hammer if the LRT occured again.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
Ok this does look like a lazy town/scum list.
How can you have a read on my role as my predessor's did nothing.
As I have explained, my view of your role comes largely from process of elimination. My town/scum list was not lazily thrown together, as I wasn't looking at post counts when I wrote it. I may be more liable to think that players who post more have less to hide, and that is something that I need to decide about, meta-wise. (My list has changed a bit from that list, but is similar.)
My process of elimination coupled with two players replacing (for what I believe is due to the role being a scum one) placed you where you were placed on my list.
What specifically was bizarre and scummy about storyteller and my posts.
Storyteller's came from post 13 in which s/he takes an apologetic tone during the RVS, which indicates a scum mentality to me. It is unfortunate that s/he never posted again.
Your first content-filled post misattributes EtR as replacing Kahedron when you were looking at the list of players. I was wondering what caused that because you knew that Kahedron had died and was town (indicating that you knew something past the first 100 posts), but EtR is not listed under the Dead Players (so the information does not come from there). There is something weird about what you know and what you misconstrue.
I called for town scum list lazy as it didnt show why you had people at top or bottom, it was just a list.
I obviously can't comment on storyteller's first post, but I can in relation to my first post. I glanced at the first post of the game, the mod post, before I read the first 100 posts and then started typing up my analysis.
Kahedron made my scum list, then I checked the first post again before I posted my thoughts and Kahedron wasn't in the active players, nor did it say an active player had replaced him. The dead player's list just says who died at the time they died without any mention of replacements.
I assumed KCC had replaced him, as Tezz and Cellion were names I knew already.
I don't know how exactly KCC got replaced by ETR, call it a moment of confusion.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Smile your day could be worse, so I did smile and it was worse.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
It also works nice with skirge familiar as discarding to familiar triggers it and pays the cost for the trigger.
Bosh, Iron Golem
•If the deck has a name, what is it?
Like a Bosh!
•If the deck has a theme or unique idea, what is it?
Artifacts all the way, kikijiki and goblin welder are the only red permanents.
•What archetype(s) does the deck fit in?
Ramp
•Why do you like it so much?
Because people tend to under value ramp as a threat until it is too late, in one game someone cyclonic rifted and in response I floated mana, then after it resolved dropped shimmer myr to return everything to the board. I won the game on my next turn.
The above doesn't apply as he hasn't just played a spell or ability, the rector ability has just resolved
The active player always gets priority after a spell / ability resolves, meaning he has priority until he specifically passes it.
If he is just blankly staring at you, ask if he is passing priority or ask him for priority.
The MTG CR actually has a very similar case as an example for interaction of multiple replacement effects Rule 616.1
Example: Two permanents are on the battlefield. One is an enchantment that reads “If a card would be put into a graveyard from anywhere, instead exile it,” and the other is a creature that reads “If [this creature] would be put into a graveyard from the battlefield, instead shuffle it into its owner’s library.” If the creature is destroyed, its controller decides which replacement to apply first; the other does nothing
You are correct, the only time you can tap myr for the battlesphere's ability is as it resolves, you cannot activate other abilities during its resolution.
Actually that method is a far better method of determining the value of the "average" box.
For example a set that had all rares/mythics in the $5-$7 range but had a mythic at $100. Almost every box is worth the same except for ones with the good mythic.
But determining the value of the average box is meant to be a predictor for the likely value you'll get from a box, if you don't exclude the mythic from average calculation then almost every box opened from this example set would be below this average predicted value.
You want an average box price determined that gives the median box price, ie 50% higher, 50% lower. Without excluding extremes the calculation is unlikely to come close to this ideal as demonstrated above with the simple example.
Also if your judge allows replacement packs or does not punish a person boosting with the contents of packs I would encourage you to report them.
Village Bell ringers doesn't help at all on the ghostly prison front, the first thing you do before receiving priority in the declare attackers step is declare attackers, at which point you have to pay for ghostly prison.
It's the cardboard crack kicking in.
The quote tags got messed up somehow, I was responding to iPot's ask awesomesauce point. His behaviour doesn't seem any different than in the last game I played with him.
Most the the replacements did like someone new as scum and someone who already had a wagon rolling. It's the timing of when you choose to point it out, as soon as you were included in their list.
I missed that bit somehow, still all you can do is claim ignorance to the point, I guess that means the point is null in determining if you are scum or not.
That is quite a flip in opinion, you were voting Rhand at the end of day 1.
I'm reading wessel as town so am against the test lynch, as we gain limited information. If we end up in MYLO I would lynch wessel as we can't mislynch him and it would make process of elimination easier if his role saved and confirmed him.
Unfortunately iPot's behaviour doesn't seem any different to Deitriptychos mafia. I suspected him of being scum due to it, even faked a daykill on him which changed my mind due to his response.
Funny timing I call you on an inconsistency and then you decide I'm scum. I had intended to reread you as the inconsistency bothered me, hadn't got around to it yet.
Yes I started the wagon because I believed he took the opportunity to drop a false claim.
This is a stretch, I knew this far in advance that I was going to cause a mislynch on KK and could get HnS.
In reality, I dislike the word honest but its not enough to go on day 1. In vampire mafia there were two players left, it's a bit more valid in that POE step IMO.
Also you'll note HnS / Rhand as been near the top of my scum list since this post.
His response seems over the top to me, called it.
Townhunting in my opinion helps scum, read some of my other games, in fact you were in Gotham with me in which I called SciSolaris? on this exact point.
I thought I was actively pushing for KK and not really being subtle about it. Trying to take a page from Iso as he normally manages to get his suspect lynched that way. I'm seem to not be able to get people to follow me unless I have an investigation result.
Because I thought KK was scum.
I believe the luring tell was a scum tell, still do.
I was away for the beginning of the game if you recall.
Here was my first post back
After the reread was the KK vote post as he was my leading scum suspect.
Nitpick I joined the Maokun Wagon late day 1 and I was on the Rhand wagon at that point, during the course of day one I had 3 major scum suspects, KK first, HnS/Rhand second and then late in the day Maokun. I was wrong about KK, and was fully prepared to jump back on to be the hammer if the LRT occured again.
I called for town scum list lazy as it didnt show why you had people at top or bottom, it was just a list.
I obviously can't comment on storyteller's first post, but I can in relation to my first post. I glanced at the first post of the game, the mod post, before I read the first 100 posts and then started typing up my analysis.
Kahedron made my scum list, then I checked the first post again before I posted my thoughts and Kahedron wasn't in the active players, nor did it say an active player had replaced him. The dead player's list just says who died at the time they died without any mention of replacements.
I assumed KCC had replaced him, as Tezz and Cellion were names I knew already.
I don't know how exactly KCC got replaced by ETR, call it a moment of confusion.