Ok, but MaRo has admitted that he doesn't play Commander and doesn't care for the format.
Hybrid is one of those mechanics where the flavor wants it to be one thing but the mechanical reality of the card doesn't quite get there. A mono-green commander looks at a card like Boggart Ram-Gang, sees red (which the card is, by everyone's understanding), and decides the spell is not worth knowing, whether or not they are capable of playing the spell. It doesn't matter if you can cast the spell, the commander makes the Vorthosian decision to be a purist and pass, because the card is still red. It's not an "or" for anything that checks color in the game. If you can cast it off Pillar of the Paruns, it's an "and".
Tooth and Nail is my least favorite card in EDH. Partly because it's a one card combo, partly because my meta is inundated with Green decks so it shows up in 95% of the games I play.
I agree with those that feel that those in the "Ban Iona" camp are working off a lot of theory and conjecture. Again, I play Iona all the time, and it's never the game breaker people seem to think it is. Gaddock Teeg is a MUCH more stifling card. If your meta is super casual and people can't deal with Iona, than they're going to have a problem dealing with a lot of other cards that are just as, if not more, problematic and game breaking than Iona. And these issues will be mitigated by social and political factors, and are in no way indicative of Iona being a format-wide problem.
1. This is a dumb rule, and many people agree with you.
2. Because the card is both green and red, so having a green card in your red deck is a no-no. Again, a lot of people have a similar complaint, but there's no sign of this rule changing.
3. This probably stems from back when you had to have a Elder Dragon like Nicol Bolas as your general, and 21 is three swings with your general.
4. You can run wishes if you run the optional sideboard, get your groups OK. What are you trying to do?
5. You can have multiple Relentless Rats in your deck.
Commanders give the decks identity and is a source of fun in-and-of themselves. There's no one I'd rather have lead my army into battle than Captain Sisay! Also, deck building restrictions and commanders breed creativity that isn't really there in other formats of Magic.
You don't understand why those cards were banned. Power level never factored into it. Prime Time altered the game just by being in a deck, because every blue deck's goal was to bribery it out, every green deck's goal was to tutor it out, and every black deck's goal was to reanimate it out. It twisted everything about it. Sundering Titan was less pervasive in its effect, but the second it came down, the entire game was different for its mandatory effect, mainly because it would unintentionally cause the same thing Iona does. Locking someone out of the game (this time usually some poor schmuck who couldn't afford a good mana base for his multicolored deck. Iona does the same thing, because she usually locks an entire player out of the game. The gamestate where one player is unable to play, but still has to participate is incredibly undesirable, as undesirable as the situation Sundering Titan sets up, or Prime Time. Dies to removal isn't a valid argument against it. Prime Time dies to removal. The fact of the matter is that removing Iona isn't often the best solution, because if you're able to handle her, she probably isn't aimed at you. Removing her brings a player back into the game that was previously locked out, and thus hurts your chances to win.
So in that way, Iona is a trap for the build casually, play competitively mindset that the RC wants to promote.
I fully understand why those cards are banned, and your walk-through of the explanation is exactly what I said. They were abused, abused, abused. Iona cannot be abused the same way. If someone blinks Iona, nothing happens cause I'm going to choose the same color again anyway when it comes back to my control. If someone steals Iona, nothing happens cause the damage is done. If someone casts Bribery targeting Iona, then great, it is the biggest creature in my deck. Hope they don't choose white, and if they do hope someone kills it or I draw my non-white ways of dealing with it so I can keep playing Magic. If they don't, than a 9 mana spell won the game, like it's supposed to do. All the cards you listed, if dealt with, still left the caster miles ahead in a way that Iona simply doesn't. It's not nearly on the same playing field.
In the 2+ years I've had Sisay I've won with Iona, Shield of Emeria maybe 5 times? 10 times? I thought about cutting her because she wins so little, and Elesh Norn is almost always a better target. That's how often she's dealt with. That's how little she matters.
Iona isn't a problem card competitively. It's a problem card in the same way Sundering Titan was a problem card: not great, but often screws over one specific player creating an unfun boardstate. In other words rude. And if you'll notice, Sundering Titan is banned. The RC bans cards not for competitive value, but for the gamestates they tend to create.
Now let's examine the new card you put up: Pyroblast. With Painter's Servant, it becomes an incredibly efficient counterspell/vindicate. That's pretty neat actually, and hardly something I'd call the RC about. The other two are more problematic, but we've already discussed them (or at least I have). All is Dust will always be a deliberate play with Painter's Servant out. It isn't the kind of accidental effect that Iona or Sundering Titan create. The RC actually isn't in the business of banning cards that are intentionally misused (see Hermit Druid). They are actually in the business of banning cards that some casual player will put in his deck thinking it's fun, and it will turn out to be not fun. See Panoptic Mirror, Sundering Titan, Prime Time, Sylvan Primordial, etc, etc, etc.
Iona isn't nearly the card Sundering Titan or Primeval Titan are. Iona can't be abused nearly as much as any of the cards you mentioned, and therein lies their ban potential. Iona comes down, complicates things, and gets dealt with. Annoying, but not something unrecoverable. All the cards you mentioned lead to fights, blinks, steals, etc until one player (usually the caster) is left standing. Iona is not overwhelming in that same way. Iona makes one player's lives difficult for a spell, but the other cards you mentioned bring entire tables to their knees and warped the format around themselves.
But what would you rather have in the format (ignoring the consideration that you already run it, and would have to change your deck)? Iona, or Painter's Servant. I don't think anyone seriously thinks Iona is some sort of power house that breaks the meta. Just that she's a card that has the easily realized potential of completely ruining a game by locking one or more players out. They don't think she's top tier competitive value, they think she's rude.
I think Painter's Servant is a more interesting card, but I think it interacts unfavorably with the format for reasons other people have pointed out (All is Dust, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Pyroblast, pick a hoser, any hoser). The question isn't Iona vs Painter's Servant, as Iona isn't a problem card per your own admission. The question is does a card like Servant deserve to be in the format when it interacts with cards like Iona unfavorably? If it weren't Iona, it would be something else. I think there are probably more playable hosers than there are playable cards that benefit from color identity, which is how it wound up banned in the first place.
Also, the RC isn't in the habit of banning cards for being rude. Magic is a rude game full of rude interactions. If they start banning cards cause they hurt feelings, they have to reckon with probably 100+ cards.
could you please share your decklist of the same commander?
The idea looks great, but the deck seems to be vulnerable to
- Commander spot removal
- Graveyard hate (and loam being Hindered)
- Combos (not much control elements for a long-term deck)
and win-conditions are combo-based, but again not too many ways to protect the combo from countering (for example, when you cast Ad Nauseum and it gets Swan Song'd).
The list seems to be always having insane amounts of mana, but using them just to attack with manlands and end up just drawing more lands
Or this deck is designed just for non-competitive metas?
Thanks in advance I had some really good time piloting a deck based on your Kozilek list.
Not Judwah, but I can answer some of your questions:
-Vulnerable to Commander Spot Removal:I haven't found this to be too much of an issue, as there's a lot more commanders with more relevant abilities. If they do kill Xira, we can just recast her with all of our mana. She's super cheap. At worst we hit our land drops every turn, and at best we ramp miles ahead of most other decks, so I've never had an issue replaying her.
Graveyard Hate/Loam Removal: Like all graveyard decks, we are surprisingly resilient to hate. If everyone at the table hits you multiple times with hate, that will be a problem. If your meta runs a lot of dedicated hate, that's also a problem. But most times we just keep dredging and keeping on. A regular in my group runs Radha, Heir to Keld and gets his Scavenging Ooze online most games, and it hasn't been crippling. Annoying, but nothing crazy. Don't cast Loam if you know/suspect there's graveyard removal. Xira and the cycle lands are also key in getting Loam back instant speed to keep the magic happening.
-Combos: While it's true we don't run a lot of answers to combos, we also put enough pressure on combos that they have to deal with us, rather than the other way around. Man lands are hell for blue decks. There's nothing wrong with spending all your mana turning on several man lands each turn, as that's where the pressure comes in. This deck thrives on being able to ride out one or two cards for a while, getting a ton of mileage out of our spells.
-Our own combos and counters: As Judwah mentioned, Inkmoth Nexus + Kessig Wolf Run is a primary win-condition, which gets around counters. We have enough ways to tutor for lands and draw extra cards that we shouldn't have an issue finding the cards we need. Can't counter land drops If you're in a permission heavy meta, you can always cram in Boseiju, Who Shelters All. Or just recur the spells with Eternal Witness, Creeping Renaissance, Regrowth, Past in Flames (if you run it).
My meta is highly competitive, and this deck hangs just fine, even in it's infant stages. We make up for our lack of splash with resilience and surprise wins with Inkmoth/Kessig or Dark Depths. I've gotten many a Marit Lage token out by pay 30 mana over a couple of turns, cause why not?
As someone who plays Iona in my Captain Sisay deck, I can say Iona isn't busted unless everyone at the table is playing the same color. Most times she's played I shut off one player and swing with her at the other, and she gets dealt with in quick order by someone. She's really strong, but not as strong as Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite (at least in my deck). Truth be told most times I play Iona it's to stop someone's Tooth and Nail or to keep the Azami, Lady of Scrolls player in check for a few turns so they don't combo.
As someone above mentioned, people don't like cards that stop people from playing spells--it's why Counterspell effects aren't popular, it's why people groan at removal, it's why Stax is frowned upon in most metas, etc. Everyone wants to slam their cards down uninterrupted to maximize their fun-factor, but Magic is a game of answers. Iona is a really good answer.
Fa'adiyah Seer is on the watch list, I just have to find a card to add. I guess it could be a land. We have a house ban on Necropotence, so I that's kind of off the table, unfortunately.
Mox Diamond is a card I own that had "land" in the text, so I added it. Not the best reason, but it's what happened. I could see cutting it. I have similar thoughts as you about Sol Ring.
Punishing Fire is a machine that removes all kinds of things all the time. Maybe it's just my meta, but it kills everything. I'm not in a rush to find a replacement for this.
Dismember was better than whatever I cut for it, but it's also my watch list.
They've already said their doing Planeswalkers from Magic's past that don't otherwise have PW cards, so any currently existing walkers are probably out.
Do you have a source for that? I have not read anything like that, almost the opposite in fact.
I think I read it on Maro's Tumblr, but a quick google search has not yielded the results I was looking for. Might be misremembering things
They've already said their doing Planeswalkers from Magic's past that don't otherwise have PW cards, so any currently existing walkers are probably out.
My guesses for the walkers are
White: Serra
Blue: Teferi (already known)
Black: Leshrac
Red: Jeska (I think Jaya is too similar to Chandra to get a card)
Green: Radha
Hybrid is one of those mechanics where the flavor wants it to be one thing but the mechanical reality of the card doesn't quite get there. A mono-green commander looks at a card like Boggart Ram-Gang, sees red (which the card is, by everyone's understanding), and decides the spell is not worth knowing, whether or not they are capable of playing the spell. It doesn't matter if you can cast the spell, the commander makes the Vorthosian decision to be a purist and pass, because the card is still red. It's not an "or" for anything that checks color in the game. If you can cast it off Pillar of the Paruns, it's an "and".
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
2. Because the card is both green and red, so having a green card in your red deck is a no-no. Again, a lot of people have a similar complaint, but there's no sign of this rule changing.
3. This probably stems from back when you had to have a Elder Dragon like Nicol Bolas as your general, and 21 is three swings with your general.
4. You can run wishes if you run the optional sideboard, get your groups OK. What are you trying to do?
5. You can have multiple Relentless Rats in your deck.
Commanders give the decks identity and is a source of fun in-and-of themselves. There's no one I'd rather have lead my army into battle than Captain Sisay! Also, deck building restrictions and commanders breed creativity that isn't really there in other formats of Magic.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
I fully understand why those cards are banned, and your walk-through of the explanation is exactly what I said. They were abused, abused, abused. Iona cannot be abused the same way. If someone blinks Iona, nothing happens cause I'm going to choose the same color again anyway when it comes back to my control. If someone steals Iona, nothing happens cause the damage is done. If someone casts Bribery targeting Iona, then great, it is the biggest creature in my deck. Hope they don't choose white, and if they do hope someone kills it or I draw my non-white ways of dealing with it so I can keep playing Magic. If they don't, than a 9 mana spell won the game, like it's supposed to do. All the cards you listed, if dealt with, still left the caster miles ahead in a way that Iona simply doesn't. It's not nearly on the same playing field.
In the 2+ years I've had Sisay I've won with Iona, Shield of Emeria maybe 5 times? 10 times? I thought about cutting her because she wins so little, and Elesh Norn is almost always a better target. That's how often she's dealt with. That's how little she matters.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
Iona isn't nearly the card Sundering Titan or Primeval Titan are. Iona can't be abused nearly as much as any of the cards you mentioned, and therein lies their ban potential. Iona comes down, complicates things, and gets dealt with. Annoying, but not something unrecoverable. All the cards you mentioned lead to fights, blinks, steals, etc until one player (usually the caster) is left standing. Iona is not overwhelming in that same way. Iona makes one player's lives difficult for a spell, but the other cards you mentioned bring entire tables to their knees and warped the format around themselves.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
Decks include Azusa, Lost but Seeking, Radha, Heir to Keld, Phenax, God of Deception, Sidisi, Blood Tyrant, plus my lists in sig.
We have the occasional guest appearance from Azami, Lady of Scrolls, Omnath, Locus of Mana, Scion of the Ur-dragon, Oona, Queen of the Fae, Kaalia of the Vast.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
I think Painter's Servant is a more interesting card, but I think it interacts unfavorably with the format for reasons other people have pointed out (All is Dust, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Pyroblast, pick a hoser, any hoser). The question isn't Iona vs Painter's Servant, as Iona isn't a problem card per your own admission. The question is does a card like Servant deserve to be in the format when it interacts with cards like Iona unfavorably? If it weren't Iona, it would be something else. I think there are probably more playable hosers than there are playable cards that benefit from color identity, which is how it wound up banned in the first place.
Also, the RC isn't in the habit of banning cards for being rude. Magic is a rude game full of rude interactions. If they start banning cards cause they hurt feelings, they have to reckon with probably 100+ cards.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
Not Judwah, but I can answer some of your questions:
-Vulnerable to Commander Spot Removal:I haven't found this to be too much of an issue, as there's a lot more commanders with more relevant abilities. If they do kill Xira, we can just recast her with all of our mana. She's super cheap. At worst we hit our land drops every turn, and at best we ramp miles ahead of most other decks, so I've never had an issue replaying her.
Graveyard Hate/Loam Removal: Like all graveyard decks, we are surprisingly resilient to hate. If everyone at the table hits you multiple times with hate, that will be a problem. If your meta runs a lot of dedicated hate, that's also a problem. But most times we just keep dredging and keeping on. A regular in my group runs Radha, Heir to Keld and gets his Scavenging Ooze online most games, and it hasn't been crippling. Annoying, but nothing crazy. Don't cast Loam if you know/suspect there's graveyard removal. Xira and the cycle lands are also key in getting Loam back instant speed to keep the magic happening.
-Combos: While it's true we don't run a lot of answers to combos, we also put enough pressure on combos that they have to deal with us, rather than the other way around. Man lands are hell for blue decks. There's nothing wrong with spending all your mana turning on several man lands each turn, as that's where the pressure comes in. This deck thrives on being able to ride out one or two cards for a while, getting a ton of mileage out of our spells.
-Our own combos and counters: As Judwah mentioned, Inkmoth Nexus + Kessig Wolf Run is a primary win-condition, which gets around counters. We have enough ways to tutor for lands and draw extra cards that we shouldn't have an issue finding the cards we need. Can't counter land drops
My meta is highly competitive, and this deck hangs just fine, even in it's infant stages. We make up for our lack of splash with resilience and surprise wins with Inkmoth/Kessig or Dark Depths. I've gotten many a Marit Lage token out by pay 30 mana over a couple of turns, cause why not?
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
As someone above mentioned, people don't like cards that stop people from playing spells--it's why Counterspell effects aren't popular, it's why people groan at removal, it's why Stax is frowned upon in most metas, etc. Everyone wants to slam their cards down uninterrupted to maximize their fun-factor, but Magic is a game of answers. Iona is a really good answer.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
Cabal pit has been super handy. I don't run the Coffers. How good is it without Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth?
Mox Diamond is a card I own that had "land" in the text, so I added it. Not the best reason, but it's what happened. I could see cutting it. I have similar thoughts as you about Sol Ring.
Darkblast is cute removal that dredges. Do you run any other dredgers? Or is Life from the loam enough?
Punishing Fire is a machine that removes all kinds of things all the time. Maybe it's just my meta, but it kills everything. I'm not in a rush to find a replacement for this.
Dismember was better than whatever I cut for it, but it's also my watch list.
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
I think I read it on Maro's Tumblr, but a quick google search has not yielded the results I was looking for. Might be misremembering things
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR
My guesses for the walkers are
White: Serra
Blue: Teferi (already known)
Black: Leshrac
Red: Jeska (I think Jaya is too similar to Chandra to get a card)
Green: Radha
BRRakdos, Lord of RiotsBR