Tell Nagle he isn't designing specifically for Commander. He made Wrexial specifically to act as a general to hose the popularity of extra-turn cards in that format. Those other various multicolored legends we've been seeing lately like Glissa and Jor Kadeen are also made with Commander in mind. I'm fairly certain the unusual abundance of legends in the Alara block is no coincidence either. Two cycles of legendary mythics, in the same color combinations, in the same block? Highly unusual, and not consistent with the rest of the block's themes, until you take into account that they all function as three-color Commanders.
True, but I wasn't talking (or apparently even thinking) about actual commanders. I was talking and thinking about nonlegendary cards designed for commander. And don't forget, I don't think there's anything wrong with designing commander specific cards, I just think if that's what you have in mind, it would be nice if you said so to begin with.
Yes they are. It's the scarcity of money that matters, not cards. This is not semantics, it's reality. I can buy packs, boxes, and cases until I have 20 copies of every rare in a given set if I have the money. I can buy one of the 5,000ish played Beta Black Lotus for $2,000ish bucks, or I can buy one of the 7 PSA10 Beta Black Lotus for $20,000+. I appreciate that you (and other decent designers) take demographics into consideration when buying (EDIT) designing btw. I realize that the average player doesn't have unlimited money and that WotC is always reaching for that next generation of player.
Their impact is reduced, but they still have impact for the person who gets their cards by buying a couple of booster packs at a time. Flooding someone's collection with narrow-use cards like this is something I'd be concerned about.
Again, I see your point, but then every collection is flooded with garbage commons, narrow or not. The occasional narrow common isn't a bad thing as long as it is an occasional thing. This is narrow like Treasure Hunt is narrow - a card that I adore, designed a decade ago, and was surprised to see as a common. And like I said before, I can see this as a rare, I just don't like it as a rare, especially as a Commander rare.
I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
Now.. What if there was a more serious repercussion...
Would it still dominate?
Would it be a bit too powerful?
Or would it end up being too much of a drawback to be used more than once per game?
So, without further ado, I want to know your opinions on THIS BABY:
I swear Magic nerds are such PUSSIES. Especially these 2nd Place Plastic Trophy Poke'mon generation dorks. There is nothing wrong with this card in terms of power. It's just boring.
I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
I wouldn't want it to be common, because it really sucks in multiples. How often are you going to be casting more than one of these over the course of a single game? Only in multiplayer, and the most popular multiplayer format by far doesn't even let you run more than one of these in your deck. It's a narrow card with extremely powerful potential under a very specific set of circumstances, and it doesn't have enough "wow" or "splash" to warrant a mythic rarity, so being rare makes the most sense to me now. I can't remember why I made it uncommon initially.
"Really sucking in multiples" is certainly a factor, but not necessarily a reason in and of itself to make a card rare. Outside of limited, rarities are nonexistent. Not everything is designed for limited or assigned a rarity for limited, as much as many like to think it is and want to convince everyone else that it is. And WotC damn sure isn't designing specifically for Commander, at least not yet, unless you count the actual Commander precon cards. If you're designing for precon Commander decks, than just say so. But even then, I doubt anyone would be happy if this were a chase rare in a Commander deck. And if it were, then that probably means that WotC designed a mill deck for a 100 card per deck format? Wow. And if a deck like that can win commander, mere 60 card decks should be a snap to mill - thereby pushing the secondary market value of this chase rare through the roof (as well as precon CommanderMill.dec).
That being said. The card is still awesome. I understand your logic, and I can see it as a rare. I just think it's better suited as a common. Perhaps a compromise - Uncommon?
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I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
Zenner of the Universe (Mythic) GG
Legendary Creature – Elf Shaman
0/2
Hexproof
Zenner of the Universe is the source of all damage.*
*Giasumaru
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I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
And if I opened it as a rare, I'd probably try to think of a way to make it work in a deck. Probably turbo-fog, since that's the most straightforward intersection of lifegain and milling. Different strokes for different folks, etc.
Are you saying that it can't be a common (if it only targeted one opponent)?
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I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
Traumatic ScreamsB
Sorcery (U)
As an additional cost to cast Traumatic Screams, pay X life.
Each opponent puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
This should target a single opponent and be a common. It simply isn't a multiplayer game type of card and affecting multiple opponents makes it "too good/complicated" to be common. I would be disappointed to open a pack and get this as an uncommon and totally pissed if it were a rare.
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I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
Wow, thanks for all the excellent input Silvercut. I took pretty much all of your advice. Sorcerella was supposed to have a restriction originally, not sure how missed that (also reduced her power from 2 to 1 and made her human). I want so badly to give her protection from red. Would that be too much? (Nevermind, gave her haste instead.) Changed the Orc's name to something less literal and more flavorful - no more self flagellation. Technical tweaks made. (I didn't do any record keeping in the op because this laptop is terrible to work on as it is.)
I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
Goblin Flamethrower: The wording is intentional. It's intended to have a minor drawback akin to Hex.
Sorcerella: She taps now and the ability can only be activated as a sorcery.
Mindstorm: Increased mana cost by R. I realize that Reversal of Fortune costs 4RR, but it's also unplayable. I also changed it slightly so that it gets one sorcery from each player's hand, instead of all from one opponent.
Stormspire Keep: I see it as totally necessary. As far as the Urza lands are concerned, red got the shaft. Also, read my sig.
I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
Stormspire Taskmaster (Common) R
Creature – Orc
1/1
When Stormspire Taskmaster enters the battlefield, target creature gains haste this turn. Orc say. Goblin do.
Magma Geyser (Common) R
Enchantment – Aura
Enchant land
Whenever a player taps enchanted land for mana, that player adds an additional R to his or her mana pool and Magma Geyser deals 1 damage to that player. Pain is a price I’m more than willing to pay for the power it provides. - Sorcerella
Goblin Flamethrower (Rare) R
Creature – Goblin
1/1
When Goblin Flamethrower enters the battlefield you may pay X. If you do, it deals X damage to X target creatures.
Sorcerella (Mythic) RR
Legendary Creature – Human Wizard
1/2
Haste 2RR, T: Search your library for a sorcery card with converted mana cost 3 or less and cast it without paying its mana cost. If it has X in its mana cost, X is equal to 3. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery. (Then shuffle your library.) She puts the “source” in sorcery.
World’s End (Uncommon) XXR
Sorcery
Destroy X target nonbasic lands.
Mindstorm (Rare) 3RRR
Sorcery
Each player reveals his or her hand. You may copy up to one sorcery card in each hand. If you do, you may cast each copy without paying its mana cost.
Stormspire Keep (Mythic)
Legendary Land T: Add R to your mana pool for each spell you cast this turn. Activate this ability only any time you could cast an instant. Stormspire Keep has endured countless storms. Most of them created by the keep itself.
I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
If it were "target player", you would be correct. As of now, it's "each opponent", which will make it beloved in many casual circles.
Woops, missed that.
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I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
Wait a second, there ARE black cards that exile creatures (and other permanents). Faceless Butcher, Eradicate, Unmake, and Nemesis Trap are some Modern-legal examples of monoblack cards that "exile target creature". It can't be said that black isn't able to do it. Half are uncommon, and half are common, so it can't even be said that it has to be a rare/mythic effect.
Sure black likes to meddle with the graveyard and therefore usually doesn't exile, and it's usually saved for white because exiling is more a white effect, but it exiles.
I wasn't saying that there aren't any black spells that exile creatures. My W vs B literally meant spells that require only one W or one B to cast. All of your examples require BB to cast, even the trap ability cost is BB.
It's not that I think this effect can't be B, I just think that it's stealing from W. It would make for a better W spell or an even better (W/B) spell.
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I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
Zombie Apocalypse 4BBBB
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures. Put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield for each creature destroyed this way.
PLANTS VS ZOMBIES
Phytopod (Common) 2G
Creature - Plant
2/2
Wither (This deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters.)
Whenever a creature dealt damage by Phytopod this turn dies, put a 1/1 green Saproling creature token onto the battlefield for each -1/-1 counter that was on it.
Mindless Zombie (Common) 2B
Creature - Zombie
2/2
Wither (This deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters.)
Whenever a creature dealt damage by Mindless Zombie this turn dies, put an X/Y black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield, where X is that card's power and Y is its toughness.
Other Cards
Blast Point (Common)
Land
When Blast Point enters the battlefield, you may destroy target noncreature artifact. If you do, Blast Point deals 2 damage to you. T: Add 1 to your mana pool
Bury the Hatchet (Uncommon)
Instant 1R
Choose one - Destroy target equipment; or destroy target equipped creature.
Blood Money (Common) 1RB
Instant
Destroy target creature. Add one gold mana to your mana pool. This mana doesn't empty from your mana pool as steps and phases end. (Gold mana may be spent as mana of any color but can only be spent to pay for colored mana costs.)
War Crimes (Rare) 4UUUU
Instant
Warcast (This spell costs 1 less to cast for each creature that attacked this turn.)
Gain control of up to one target permanent of each type. (Artifact, creature, enchantment, land, and planeswalker are permanent types.)
I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
Traumatic ScreamsB
Sorcery (U)
As an additional cost to cast Traumatic Screams, pay X life.
Each opponent puts the top X cards of his or her library into his or her graveyard.
This card is a serious enabler. Dangerous as hell. Bound to be restricted in Vintage. I love it.
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I care less about us making mistakes that lead to degenerate environments than I am when we don’t push ourselves and make something that’s boring to play. - MaRo
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True, but I wasn't talking (or apparently even thinking) about actual commanders. I was talking and thinking about nonlegendary cards designed for commander. And don't forget, I don't think there's anything wrong with designing commander specific cards, I just think if that's what you have in mind, it would be nice if you said so to begin with.
Yes they are. It's the scarcity of money that matters, not cards. This is not semantics, it's reality. I can buy packs, boxes, and cases until I have 20 copies of every rare in a given set if I have the money. I can buy one of the 5,000ish played Beta Black Lotus for $2,000ish bucks, or I can buy one of the 7 PSA10 Beta Black Lotus for $20,000+. I appreciate that you (and other decent designers) take demographics into consideration when
buying(EDIT) designing btw. I realize that the average player doesn't have unlimited money and that WotC is always reaching for that next generation of player.Again, I see your point, but then every collection is flooded with garbage commons, narrow or not. The occasional narrow common isn't a bad thing as long as it is an occasional thing. This is narrow like Treasure Hunt is narrow - a card that I adore, designed a decade ago, and was surprised to see as a common. And like I said before, I can see this as a rare, I just don't like it as a rare, especially as a Commander rare.
I swear Magic nerds are such PUSSIES. Especially these 2nd Place Plastic Trophy Poke'mon generation dorks. There is nothing wrong with this card in terms of power. It's just boring.
Flaming
"Really sucking in multiples" is certainly a factor, but not necessarily a reason in and of itself to make a card rare. Outside of limited, rarities are nonexistent. Not everything is designed for limited or assigned a rarity for limited, as much as many like to think it is and want to convince everyone else that it is. And WotC damn sure isn't designing specifically for Commander, at least not yet, unless you count the actual Commander precon cards. If you're designing for precon Commander decks, than just say so. But even then, I doubt anyone would be happy if this were a chase rare in a Commander deck. And if it were, then that probably means that WotC designed a mill deck for a 100 card per deck format? Wow. And if a deck like that can win commander, mere 60 card decks should be a snap to mill - thereby pushing the secondary market value of this chase rare through the roof (as well as precon CommanderMill.dec).
That being said. The card is still awesome. I understand your logic, and I can see it as a rare. I just think it's better suited as a common. Perhaps a compromise - Uncommon?
GG
Legendary Creature – Elf Shaman
0/2
Hexproof
Zenner of the Universe is the source of all damage.*
*Giasumaru
Are you saying that it can't be a common (if it only targeted one opponent)?
This should target a single opponent and be a common. It simply isn't a multiplayer game type of card and affecting multiple opponents makes it "too good/complicated" to be common. I would be disappointed to open a pack and get this as an uncommon and totally pissed if it were a rare.
I want so badly to give her protection from red. Would that be too much?(Nevermind, gave her haste instead.) Changed the Orc's name to something less literal and more flavorful - no more self flagellation. Technical tweaks made. (I didn't do any record keeping in the op because this laptop is terrible to work on as it is.)Goblin Flamethrower: The wording is intentional. It's intended to have a minor drawback akin to Hex.
Sorcerella: She taps now and the ability can only be activated as a sorcery.
Mindstorm: Increased mana cost by R. I realize that Reversal of Fortune costs 4RR, but it's also unplayable. I also changed it slightly so that it gets one sorcery from each player's hand, instead of all from one opponent.
Stormspire Keep: I see it as totally necessary. As far as the Urza lands are concerned, red got the shaft. Also, read my sig.
R
Creature – Orc
1/1
When Stormspire Taskmaster enters the battlefield, target creature gains haste this turn.
Orc say. Goblin do.
Magma Geyser (Common)
R
Enchantment – Aura
Enchant land
Whenever a player taps enchanted land for mana, that player adds an additional R to his or her mana pool and Magma Geyser deals 1 damage to that player.
Pain is a price I’m more than willing to pay for the power it provides. - Sorcerella
Goblin Flamethrower (Rare)
R
Creature – Goblin
1/1
When Goblin Flamethrower enters the battlefield you may pay X. If you do, it deals X damage to X target creatures.
Sorcerella (Mythic)
RR
Legendary Creature – Human Wizard
1/2
Haste
2RR, T: Search your library for a sorcery card with converted mana cost 3 or less and cast it without paying its mana cost. If it has X in its mana cost, X is equal to 3. Activate this ability only any time you could cast a sorcery. (Then shuffle your library.)
She puts the “source” in sorcery.
World’s End (Uncommon)
XXR
Sorcery
Destroy X target nonbasic lands.
Mindstorm (Rare)
3RRR
Sorcery
Each player reveals his or her hand. You may copy up to one sorcery card in each hand. If you do, you may cast each copy without paying its mana cost.
Stormspire Keep (Mythic)
Legendary Land
T: Add R to your mana pool for each spell you cast this turn. Activate this ability only any time you could cast an instant.
Stormspire Keep has endured countless storms. Most of them created by the keep itself.
Woops, missed that.
I wasn't saying that there aren't any black spells that exile creatures. My W vs B literally meant spells that require only one W or one B to cast. All of your examples require BB to cast, even the trap ability cost is BB.
It's not that I think this effect can't be B, I just think that it's stealing from W. It would make for a better W spell or an even better (W/B) spell.
What, in everything or just the plant/zombie?
EDIT: I''ll take it up a notch. Just a sec...
EDIT: There... not sure about the wording for the Zombie though
4BBBB
Sorcery
Destroy all creatures. Put a 2/2 black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield for each creature destroyed this way.
PLANTS VS ZOMBIES
2G
Creature - Plant
2/2
Wither (This deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters.)
Whenever a creature dealt damage by Phytopod this turn dies, put a 1/1 green Saproling creature token onto the battlefield for each -1/-1 counter that was on it.
Mindless Zombie (Common)
2B
Creature - Zombie
2/2
Wither (This deals damage to creatures in the form of -1/-1 counters.)
Whenever a creature dealt damage by Mindless Zombie this turn dies, put an X/Y black Zombie creature token onto the battlefield, where X is that card's power and Y is its toughness.
Other Cards
Land
When Blast Point enters the battlefield, you may destroy target noncreature artifact. If you do, Blast Point deals 2 damage to you.
T: Add 1 to your mana pool
Bury the Hatchet (Uncommon)
Instant
1R
Choose one - Destroy target equipment; or destroy target equipped creature.
Blood Money (Common)
1RB
Instant
Destroy target creature. Add one gold mana to your mana pool. This mana doesn't empty from your mana pool as steps and phases end. (Gold mana may be spent as mana of any color but can only be spent to pay for colored mana costs.)
War Crimes (Rare)
4UUUU
Instant
Warcast (This spell costs 1 less to cast for each creature that attacked this turn.)
Gain control of up to one target permanent of each type. (Artifact, creature, enchantment, land, and planeswalker are permanent types.)
This card is a serious enabler. Dangerous as hell. Bound to be restricted in Vintage. I love it.