So after several months of inactivity (both on forum and in Modern) I brought Dredge to a PPTQ today. I don't remember my exact sideboarding but I'll attempt to include those as accurately as I can. I don't typically write down how I sideboard, I usually just bring a pre-written sideboard guide with me. I do need to update for my current 75 and current metagame.
Round 1 vs Titanshift 1-2
Game 1: They curved out into a early Scapeshift. Despair was nice, but I didn't have enough creatures to empty their hand so they just discard excess junk and 18'ed me.
Game 2: I beat them down fairly easily aided by the fact they couldn't find any ramp spells. They were a mana off of Hour of Promise which have brought them back into the game. They nuked my yard once with Relic, but I was able to rebuild fast enough that it wasn't too relevant.
Game 3: I valiantly fought through 2 Anger of the Gods, but was unable to rebuild after Anger number 3 followed by a Relic Nuke & Prime Time the following turn.
SB +3 Thoughtseize +2 Brutality +1 Driven/Despair -2 Neonate -1 Dakmor -1 Loam -1 Conflag -1 Narco
Round 2 vs Grixis Shadow 2-1
Game 1: They keep 6, I go to 4 keeping 2x lands, Looting, Amalgam. They Cycle 4 Street Wraiths turn 1, fetch -> shock -> Inquisition. I scoop in response to conceal information. (They told me part way through game 2 that their hand was a ton of discard spells but no threats, I still feel scooping to conceal was the right decision)
Game 2: I have an ok start with Turn 1 Neonate. They Thoughtseize me seeing a hand of Dredger, Amalgam, Haunted Dead, and Lands. They take the Dredger as I already have a larger one in yard from Neonate (I activated in response to Seize, should have let it resolve first). I build up a decent board and kill them as they try to dig for an answer.
Game 3: I Lightning Axe their turn 2 Tasigur, force them to blow up their Nihl Spell Bomb early, Amalgam survives Flaying Tendrils and I just beat their face.
SB +2 Lightning Axe -1 Dakmor -1 Neonate-> G3 +2 Claim -1 Ghast -1 Conflag (unsure if bringing in Claim was right, was worried about Leyline)
Round 3 vs Affinity 2-1
Game 1: My start is fast, theirs is not. I Conflag away their creatures forcing them to dump everything onto Ravager who is easily ignored. Despair pushes past their blockers.
Game 2: I have a decent opening hand. They have a turn 2 Rest in Peace. I did not side in my Nature's Claim. Anemic beats do not get there and I die with 3 Prized Amalgams in hand.
Game 3: A lot of back and forth board stall. I let them hit me a handful of times with Inkmoth hoping they're go all in on it and get blown out by my Claim. Eventually I just Ghost Quarter it away. Of note, this game I had some mana issues. I spent most of the game holding up Nature's Claim with my only source of Green & Black being a Gemstone Mine. Eventually I am able to establish a superior board, force them into unfavorable trades, and while they do land a RIP it is way too late to have any impact. I Claim away their Ravager which gives me a 2 turn clock on an open board and a hellbent opponent.
SB +1 Darkblast +2 Grudge + 2 Axe -2 Neonate -1 Ghast -1 Thug -1 Dakmor G3 -2 Axe +2 Claim
Round 4 vs Merfolk 1-2
Game 1: I have a decent hand which relies heavily on following up a Cathartic with Loam. My opponent has turns 2 and 3 Spreading Seas essentially double sinkholing me. This cuts my off my turn 3 Loam meaning I can't return my Ghasts. I just play Draw Go trying to find lands for Conflag and gather info on their list.
Game 2: I have a super fast start ending turn 2 with Bloodghast, Haunted Dead + Spirit, and Prized Amalgam in play. My opponent takes damage in chunks and dies.
Game 3: I don't find a Dredger until turn 3 off of Driven. I pop my 2 Neonates, but the Dredges are pretty mediocre. We trade attacks for a bit. Eventually the entire game hinges on a Conflagrate which would wipe their board but they have a Delay for it and I lose after getting my creatures bounced with Harbinger. While I did have Despair in the graveyard, I did not have the mana to Loam, Conflag, and Despair in the same turn.
SB +2 Ancient Grudge +1 Driven/Despair -1 Ghast -1 Neo -1 Dakmor
Round 5 vs Jeskai Control
Game 1: I have a moderate start, they aren't able to find enough removal for my creatures. They tap out to deal with my attackers and I Conflag them for exact lethal in my second mainphase
Game 2: I have a decent start with T2 Narcomoeba, Haunted Dead + Spirit. I attempt to go for Despair which meets Spell Queller which makes my attacks unfavorable. I do get off Despair a few turns they clear my board a bit with Paths and Snaps and are then in topdeck mode. I have set up lethal when they draw a Cryptic they scryed top the turn before. They tap down by blockers, letting them swing for exact lethal. In hindsight, I probably should have been a bit more liberal blocking with Narco.
Game 3: Start with Conflag for 0 on turn 2, turn 3 dump my hand and burn them for 4 setting up Dredgers. I build a board, they clear my board with spot removal. I build again. They snapcaster + removal. I build a third time! They Supreme Verdict. A fourth attempt is made! Which finally succeeds. I get to have fun casting Thugs and using them to reset Narcomoebas which trigger my Amalgams for a few turns before they get Pathed and Snap+Celestial Purge.
Round 6 vs ???
I see that at 3-2 I am 18th place and there's a clean cut to top 8 so I scoop to my opponent who is going for Planeswalker Points and I go do my grocery shopping.
My 2 biggest take aways were that I forgot just how much Dredge mulligans and that Driven/Despair is an amazing card.
Giving your creatures Menace is huge and much more powerful than I originally thought. The discard aspect is nice, but only really important in certain matchups like Combo and Control. The Menace makes a world of difference against board stalls and I feel its the more valuable text in most games. I never sideboarded the card out, and brought the second copy in for everything but Affinity and Shadow.
All of my fun'ofs were useful at varying points of the tournament except for Darkblast. The only match up I played where it was good, was against Affinity and even there they had Ravagers and Overseers so it was pretty meh. I did have to mulligan at least 1 otherwise keepable hand due to Ghost Quarter being the only land, but it felt worth it being able to kill Inkmoth and there was a decent amount of Tron decks in the room, both Eldrazi and Ramp. It was also relevant after getting my yard nuked by Relic, killing Salvage and getting me a Dredger immediately in the yard.
I feel I won the match ups I was supposed to and lost the ones I was supposed to. It was a decent metagame spread, I think Jeskai Control was the most represented. There was one other person on Dredge that I noticed, otherwise I didn't see too many duplicate decks.
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Man its been awhile since I posted.
I'm getting ready for the Open, main deck is stock. I've been going 3-1 pretty consistently at my LGS since the ban.
Sideboard right now is:
I really want to fit a Bojuka Bog in here for the mirror but I'm not sure what to cut. I'm thinking either the 3rd Brutality or 2nd Darkblast. The deck is already pretty good vs small creature decks so I think Darkblast is the safer cut.
Thoughts?
To respond to questions on RIP, I go with the "Thoughtseize it on turn 1-2" Plan. I don't bring in Decays.
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Gix, Phyrexian Demon 2BBBB
Legendary Creature - Demon Horror
Flying, trample BBt: Search your library for a card named Priest of Gix and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library. BBBq Sacrifice a creature: target player loses 1 life, discards a card, sacrifices a creature, then sacrifices a land
7/5
(There should be an untap symbol in ~'s second activated ability but for some reason its not showing up properly)
Next: A commander who's abilities change depending on whats on top of your deck.
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Personally I was really hoping there would be something good with Delve. I guess I'll have to keep dreaming of a Delve spell with no color requirements...
I hadn't expected too much from Khans though. I honestly didn't see much for Legacy at all from the set. Maybe some of the charms will see play.
If there is any card I want to see it would be a free Naturalize but the likely hood of that happening is incredibly low
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So I dipped my foot into Legacy by building a Manaless Dredge deck because it was cheap. I greatly enjoy playing it, but I would like to pilot something that has a bit of a better post-board game as many times my opponent would go turn 1 Grafdigger's Cage and I'd just shrug and go to the next game.
I don't have a favorite color or deck type but I do lean towards Black and away from Control. I like decks that are resilient and can win in multiple ways. For example I like that Manaless Dredge can beat down with Ichorids and Zombie tokens while also being able to dredge into the combo kill and win on the spot. I enjoy graveyard based decks and I'd prefer to have a decision tree rather than a simple "do I do A or B" type of deck.
I can't do mental math, so rule out anything math heavy like Storm or Elves. I don't really have a budget but I don't want to spend a huge amount of money on the deck as I'll only be using it in local game store events with maybe a larger tournament two or three times a year.
I own some non-blue fetchlands, cabal therapies, goblin guides, Mother of Runes, a Stoneforge Mystic package, and random 1-2 copies of a few other staples like Bolt or Ponder.
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Honestly, Burn has never NOT been a thing. It hasn't always been the most competitive deck but was still capable of putting up respectable tournament results even in 100+ person events. Even before Eidolon was printed it was good. However, Eidolon is arguably the best thing to happen to burn since the printing of Goblin Guide and definitely gave it a huge boost in power. It improves almost all of their match ups as 90% of all spells cast in Legacy cost 3 or less. An opponent will have a choice: Let them keep Eidolon out and take 2 from the attacks and 2 each time they cast a spell; or use up a piece of removal on it and take at least 2 damage. The power of Eidolon is that it can lock an opponent off of casting a lot of spells.
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1: It is incredibly rare that someone would bring in all 15 cards of their sideboard for one match. I usually bring in 4-6 of my sideboard cards. The point of a sideboard is a tool box against other decks, not to completely change your deck between games.
2: The Oracle text of a card is its current Legal text as not all cards work as printed due to errata. Key example, both Ichorid and Nether Shadow now trigger at the beginning of the upkeep not the end. The Oracle text of a card can be found on Gatherer. This is something even beginning players should know.
4: Yes, a reprint of a Legacy legal card is Legacy legal. You can play both printings of Lotus Petal, Tempest and From the Vault, but still only 4 total, just as you can play with any of the 26 the different printings of Giant Growth
Your questions make me seriously wonder how long you've been playing Magic as many of these things are common knowledge.
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The easiest way to determine what deck you are playing against is to see their manabase. What lands do they have in their hands/have already played?
Knowing what color(s) you are playing against immediately narrows down the field. From there you should be easily able to differentiate what deck you are playing against by the rest of their hand. The only times I've ever had no idea what I was playing against after a Probe or Therapy was if they had kept all lands and cantrips but even then I can tell what colors they are likely to be and I would put them on some type of Combo deck, as they are trying to sculpt their hand.
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And on the subject of grafdigger's cage, that card isn't played much because its hate is so broad that it can easily hinder the deck it is used in. More common are things like relic of progenitus and tormod's crypt. However, we can use leyline of sanctity against that, and if we're lucky we could even unmask oureslf so we don't lose a turn
All in all, i would run leyline and unmask over removal. And you'll still have slots left for other cards.
Cage is the #1 sideboarded card in all of Legacy. Where are you getting your numbers from?
Agreed, out of a total of 14 matches I saw Cage in 5 of them. And I'm certain in many of the other ones, they had a copy somewhere. Death & Taxes was running both RIP and Cage and only a single person I played against admitted to having no graveyard hate whatsoever. It costs 1 mana, stop grave based decks, stunts storm, and hurts GSZ and Natural Order decks likes Elves, Maverick, and NO Bant all without hurting Goyf. I rarely see a non-white sideboard that doesn't have at least 1 copy.
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Its a narrower Journey to Nowhere with updated formatting.
I like it. Its certainly constructed playable, whether its a main deck or a side deck card is largely up to where the meta goes.
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Spectral Procession resolves putting 3 Spirit tokens on the battlefield at the same time.
Aura Shards triggers 3 times at the same time putting 3 "You may destroy target artifact or enchantment" abilities on the stack. He chooses the target for each of those and the order they go on the stack. You may activate Sensei's Divining Top's second ability in response to any of those triggers. I suggest activating it with all 3 triggers on the stack before any have resolved.
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Its not that its a bad card, its just that it isn't any better than the cards already played.
Also, from my personal experiences you rarely get to actually cast the card under Windswept Heath. It often gets destroyed or you are unable to get 3 attackers out. You'd have to be running the Green splash list to consistently cast the wurm and if you are going to splash, the Red and Black splashes are better.
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1 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Arid Mesa
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Dakmor Salvage
2 Gemstone Mine
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Mountain
2 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Bloodghast
3 Golgari Thug
1 Haunted Dead
4 Insolent Neonate
4 Narcomoeba
4 Prized Amalgam
4 Stinkweed Imp
3 Conflagrate
1 Darkblast
1 Driven / Despair
4 Faithless Looting
3 Life from the Loam
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Collective Brutality
1 Darkblast
1 Gnaw to the Bone
1 Driven/Despair
2 Lightning Axe
2 Nature's Claim
3 Thoughtseize
Round 1 vs Titanshift 1-2
Game 1: They curved out into a early Scapeshift. Despair was nice, but I didn't have enough creatures to empty their hand so they just discard excess junk and 18'ed me.
Game 2: I beat them down fairly easily aided by the fact they couldn't find any ramp spells. They were a mana off of Hour of Promise which have brought them back into the game. They nuked my yard once with Relic, but I was able to rebuild fast enough that it wasn't too relevant.
Game 3: I valiantly fought through 2 Anger of the Gods, but was unable to rebuild after Anger number 3 followed by a Relic Nuke & Prime Time the following turn.
SB +3 Thoughtseize +2 Brutality +1 Driven/Despair -2 Neonate -1 Dakmor -1 Loam -1 Conflag -1 Narco
Round 2 vs Grixis Shadow 2-1
Game 1: They keep 6, I go to 4 keeping 2x lands, Looting, Amalgam. They Cycle 4 Street Wraiths turn 1, fetch -> shock -> Inquisition. I scoop in response to conceal information. (They told me part way through game 2 that their hand was a ton of discard spells but no threats, I still feel scooping to conceal was the right decision)
Game 2: I have an ok start with Turn 1 Neonate. They Thoughtseize me seeing a hand of Dredger, Amalgam, Haunted Dead, and Lands. They take the Dredger as I already have a larger one in yard from Neonate (I activated in response to Seize, should have let it resolve first). I build up a decent board and kill them as they try to dig for an answer.
Game 3: I Lightning Axe their turn 2 Tasigur, force them to blow up their Nihl Spell Bomb early, Amalgam survives Flaying Tendrils and I just beat their face.
SB +2 Lightning Axe -1 Dakmor -1 Neonate-> G3 +2 Claim -1 Ghast -1 Conflag (unsure if bringing in Claim was right, was worried about Leyline)
Round 3 vs Affinity 2-1
Game 1: My start is fast, theirs is not. I Conflag away their creatures forcing them to dump everything onto Ravager who is easily ignored. Despair pushes past their blockers.
Game 2: I have a decent opening hand. They have a turn 2 Rest in Peace. I did not side in my Nature's Claim. Anemic beats do not get there and I die with 3 Prized Amalgams in hand.
Game 3: A lot of back and forth board stall. I let them hit me a handful of times with Inkmoth hoping they're go all in on it and get blown out by my Claim. Eventually I just Ghost Quarter it away. Of note, this game I had some mana issues. I spent most of the game holding up Nature's Claim with my only source of Green & Black being a Gemstone Mine. Eventually I am able to establish a superior board, force them into unfavorable trades, and while they do land a RIP it is way too late to have any impact. I Claim away their Ravager which gives me a 2 turn clock on an open board and a hellbent opponent.
SB +1 Darkblast +2 Grudge + 2 Axe -2 Neonate -1 Ghast -1 Thug -1 Dakmor G3 -2 Axe +2 Claim
Round 4 vs Merfolk 1-2
Game 1: I have a decent hand which relies heavily on following up a Cathartic with Loam. My opponent has turns 2 and 3 Spreading Seas essentially double sinkholing me. This cuts my off my turn 3 Loam meaning I can't return my Ghasts. I just play Draw Go trying to find lands for Conflag and gather info on their list.
Game 2: I have a super fast start ending turn 2 with Bloodghast, Haunted Dead + Spirit, and Prized Amalgam in play. My opponent takes damage in chunks and dies.
Game 3: I don't find a Dredger until turn 3 off of Driven. I pop my 2 Neonates, but the Dredges are pretty mediocre. We trade attacks for a bit. Eventually the entire game hinges on a Conflagrate which would wipe their board but they have a Delay for it and I lose after getting my creatures bounced with Harbinger. While I did have Despair in the graveyard, I did not have the mana to Loam, Conflag, and Despair in the same turn.
SB +2 Ancient Grudge +1 Driven/Despair -1 Ghast -1 Neo -1 Dakmor
Round 5 vs Jeskai Control
Game 1: I have a moderate start, they aren't able to find enough removal for my creatures. They tap out to deal with my attackers and I Conflag them for exact lethal in my second mainphase
Game 2: I have a decent start with T2 Narcomoeba, Haunted Dead + Spirit. I attempt to go for Despair which meets Spell Queller which makes my attacks unfavorable. I do get off Despair a few turns they clear my board a bit with Paths and Snaps and are then in topdeck mode. I have set up lethal when they draw a Cryptic they scryed top the turn before. They tap down by blockers, letting them swing for exact lethal. In hindsight, I probably should have been a bit more liberal blocking with Narco.
Game 3: Start with Conflag for 0 on turn 2, turn 3 dump my hand and burn them for 4 setting up Dredgers. I build a board, they clear my board with spot removal. I build again. They snapcaster + removal. I build a third time! They Supreme Verdict. A fourth attempt is made! Which finally succeeds. I get to have fun casting Thugs and using them to reset Narcomoebas which trigger my Amalgams for a few turns before they get Pathed and Snap+Celestial Purge.
SB +3 Thoughtseize + 1 Driven/Despair -2 Conflag -1 Darkblast -1 Dakmor
Round 6 vs ???
I see that at 3-2 I am 18th place and there's a clean cut to top 8 so I scoop to my opponent who is going for Planeswalker Points and I go do my grocery shopping.
My 2 biggest take aways were that I forgot just how much Dredge mulligans and that Driven/Despair is an amazing card.
Giving your creatures Menace is huge and much more powerful than I originally thought. The discard aspect is nice, but only really important in certain matchups like Combo and Control. The Menace makes a world of difference against board stalls and I feel its the more valuable text in most games. I never sideboarded the card out, and brought the second copy in for everything but Affinity and Shadow.
All of my fun'ofs were useful at varying points of the tournament except for Darkblast. The only match up I played where it was good, was against Affinity and even there they had Ravagers and Overseers so it was pretty meh. I did have to mulligan at least 1 otherwise keepable hand due to Ghost Quarter being the only land, but it felt worth it being able to kill Inkmoth and there was a decent amount of Tron decks in the room, both Eldrazi and Ramp. It was also relevant after getting my yard nuked by Relic, killing Salvage and getting me a Dredger immediately in the yard.
I feel I won the match ups I was supposed to and lost the ones I was supposed to. It was a decent metagame spread, I think Jeskai Control was the most represented. There was one other person on Dredge that I noticed, otherwise I didn't see too many duplicate decks.
-Anonymous
I'm getting ready for the Open, main deck is stock. I've been going 3-1 pretty consistently at my LGS since the ban.
Sideboard right now is:
2x Ancient Grudge
3x Collective Brutality
2x Darkblast
1x Gnaw to the Bone
2x Lightning Axe
3x Thoughtseize
I really want to fit a Bojuka Bog in here for the mirror but I'm not sure what to cut. I'm thinking either the 3rd Brutality or 2nd Darkblast. The deck is already pretty good vs small creature decks so I think Darkblast is the safer cut.
Thoughts?
To respond to questions on RIP, I go with the "Thoughtseize it on turn 1-2" Plan. I don't bring in Decays.
-Anonymous
Legendary Creature - Demon Horror
Flying, trample
BBt: Search your library for a card named Priest of Gix and put it onto the battlefield. Then shuffle your library.
BBBq Sacrifice a creature: target player loses 1 life, discards a card, sacrifices a creature, then sacrifices a land
7/5
(There should be an untap symbol in ~'s second activated ability but for some reason its not showing up properly)
Next: A commander who's abilities change depending on whats on top of your deck.
-Anonymous
I hadn't expected too much from Khans though. I honestly didn't see much for Legacy at all from the set. Maybe some of the charms will see play.
If there is any card I want to see it would be a free Naturalize but the likely hood of that happening is incredibly low
-Anonymous
"The Soul Sisters mirror is too fast"
"Brainstorm is a terrible card"
"I'm not going to sleeve my Powered Vintage deck, its a waste of time"
-Anonymous
I don't have a favorite color or deck type but I do lean towards Black and away from Control. I like decks that are resilient and can win in multiple ways. For example I like that Manaless Dredge can beat down with Ichorids and Zombie tokens while also being able to dredge into the combo kill and win on the spot. I enjoy graveyard based decks and I'd prefer to have a decision tree rather than a simple "do I do A or B" type of deck.
I can't do mental math, so rule out anything math heavy like Storm or Elves. I don't really have a budget but I don't want to spend a huge amount of money on the deck as I'll only be using it in local game store events with maybe a larger tournament two or three times a year.
I own some non-blue fetchlands, cabal therapies, goblin guides, Mother of Runes, a Stoneforge Mystic package, and random 1-2 copies of a few other staples like Bolt or Ponder.
-Anonymous
-Anonymous
2: The Oracle text of a card is its current Legal text as not all cards work as printed due to errata. Key example, both Ichorid and Nether Shadow now trigger at the beginning of the upkeep not the end. The Oracle text of a card can be found on Gatherer. This is something even beginning players should know.
3: No one plays Yixlid Jailer, the most commonly played pieces of graveyard hate are Grafdigger's Cage, Rest in Peace, Tormod's Crypt, Relic of Progenitus, and Leyline of the Void
4: Yes, a reprint of a Legacy legal card is Legacy legal. You can play both printings of Lotus Petal, Tempest and From the Vault, but still only 4 total, just as you can play with any of the 26 the different printings of Giant Growth
Your questions make me seriously wonder how long you've been playing Magic as many of these things are common knowledge.
-Anonymous
Knowing what color(s) you are playing against immediately narrows down the field. From there you should be easily able to differentiate what deck you are playing against by the rest of their hand. The only times I've ever had no idea what I was playing against after a Probe or Therapy was if they had kept all lands and cantrips but even then I can tell what colors they are likely to be and I would put them on some type of Combo deck, as they are trying to sculpt their hand.
-Anonymous
Agreed, out of a total of 14 matches I saw Cage in 5 of them. And I'm certain in many of the other ones, they had a copy somewhere. Death & Taxes was running both RIP and Cage and only a single person I played against admitted to having no graveyard hate whatsoever. It costs 1 mana, stop grave based decks, stunts storm, and hurts GSZ and Natural Order decks likes Elves, Maverick, and NO Bant all without hurting Goyf. I rarely see a non-white sideboard that doesn't have at least 1 copy.
-Anonymous
I like it. Its certainly constructed playable, whether its a main deck or a side deck card is largely up to where the meta goes.
-Anonymous
-Anonymous
-Anonymous
Aura Shards triggers 3 times at the same time putting 3 "You may destroy target artifact or enchantment" abilities on the stack. He chooses the target for each of those and the order they go on the stack. You may activate Sensei's Divining Top's second ability in response to any of those triggers. I suggest activating it with all 3 triggers on the stack before any have resolved.
-Anonymous
Also, from my personal experiences you rarely get to actually cast the card under Windswept Heath. It often gets destroyed or you are unable to get 3 attackers out. You'd have to be running the Green splash list to consistently cast the wurm and if you are going to splash, the Red and Black splashes are better.
-Anonymous