MTG Salvation

In a potential Storm-type deck, how would Epic Experiment work with token-producing spells and Burn at the Stake? Say that you cast Epic Experiment for X=5 and hit a Krenko's Command, a Thatcher Revolt, a Gather the Townsfolk, and a Burn at the Stake. Can you stack the spells so that the token-producers resolve before you cast Burn at the Stake? I assume not, since Burn at the Stake says "As an additional cost to cast."

Thought I'd share what I've been testing lately on MODO. The issues I've had with this deck are 1) having mana problems more often than I'd like, due to a lack of Scars dual lands, and 2) getting the right balance of spells that flip Delver, bring back Phoenix, and/or add counters to Shrine. That means I want to fit in as many burn spells as possible, but have to forego traditional "Delver" cards like Gitaxian Probe and Vapor Snag to make room.

Overall, though, the deck is a lot of fun to play. It can out-tempo any deck out there, and Turn 2 Shrine is still hard for control to beat.

My sideboard choices right now are:

Combust vs. Humans/Delver. Uncounterable removal that kills Hero of Bladehold.

Some split of Ancient Grudge vs. Tempered Steel/Wolf Run Ramp and Naturalize vs. Humans/BW Tokens/other decks, where it deals with Swords and enchantments like O. Ring, Honor of the Pure, etc.

Sword of Feast and Famine vs. Green aggro/Black-based control (War and Peace is in the maindeck).

Manabarbs vs. Control/Ramp. U/B Control isn't super prevalent right now, but this card is just game against them if you resolve one.

Some kind of sweeper vs. Esper Spirits/Tokens/other "swarmy" aggro decks. Right now this is Ratchet Bomb for me, but Whipflare, Slagstorm, and Corrosive Gale could be viable options. Slagstorm is amazing against the Esper Spirit deck; it hurts us the most, but you can make favorable trades and it's good in other matchups, too. Corrosive Gale is even better against Spirits, but it's a narrow card.

I think our worst matchups might be G/R Ramp and the "French Rites" deck that reanimates Elesh Norn and Wurmcoil Engine. Cards like Act of Aggression and Traitorous Blood are good if you get to lethal range fast enough, Beast Within is a permanent solution (pun intended), but I'm not that psyched about either of them. I agree that it is sort of a necessity, though. I've also been considering Increasing Savagery for the G/R matchup.

Some decklists from the 10-round Standard portion of the Pro Tour:



Also, Daniel Grafensteiner at 21 pts playing almost the same deck with the exception of a few cards. This list is more red-heavy with a lot more burn, no GSZ, and Hellrider, with a lower curve overall.




Adam Reiser, Brandon Nelson, and Kyle Stoll all finished at 18 pts with the same deck. Interesting card choice here are the 3 Increasing Savagery in all of their sideboards, able to make any creature Titan-sized.




A bit of a higher curve here with the more expensive GSZ targets, and maindeck Daybreak Ranger and Garruk Relentless. Blasphemous Act as a sweeper in the sideboard.

It's interesting that Todd cut down to 2 Strangleroot Geist, saying it wasn't as good as he thought, though he said he probably wants 3. He also ran 2 Daybreak Ranger main and 1 in the sideboard with barely any red sources (just Birds), a testament to just how good Daybreak's front side is right now.

I could understand cutting Primeval Titan, most of the time you don't really need him. I really want to try Bellowing Tanglewurm, though!

Quote from Sasky

Why hello there, guess what made it to top 8 at Cincinnati:

http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=43833

I like it! =D

The UWB Drogskol Captain deck is pretty sweet - buuuut Ratchet Bomb is still a pretty good trump.

ChannelFireball's deck is a more ramp-style of GR, but still looking forward to seeing lots of Huntmasters and Thruns in the Top 8 tomorrow!

The deck is well-positioned against most top-tier aggro decks. I encourage you to actually play some games, or at least observe some games, to see how the deck plays out.

Quote from veritoanimus

So you're controlling with a weak burn suite (since I'm mostly only seeing 2-5 burn spells in a list) and aggressive ground creature. Then you play slow midrange creatures and a handful of 5-drops (maybe even a 6 drop) off of 23 land with no means of cleaning up your curve. That sounds really good. TS isn't going to care about any of the cards you listed except a turn 2 Arc Trail and Delver feels very similar. Delver cares a little about Daybreak, but they're at counter mana or vapor snag him at that point because your entire deck aside from 6 cards in 60 is basically blank plays to them. You can't sit around and twiddle your thumbs in competitive standard right now. You need to be playing stronger threats, or more burn to clear things out. As it stands, Delver walks over you 5 out of 6 games and haunted humans does too. Your early CA isn't as strong as theirs, and you're not going to get to a point where your late game matters because you cannot close a game before turn 8 and have too few answers to their flyers.

The curve is actually more 4-drop heavy, with 23 lands and a virtual 9 mana accelerators (6 1-drops and 3 GSZ).

Kibler's list, Gerry T's list, and my list actually run 7 burn spells - but there's so much more removal than that.

Daybreak Ranger kills a lot more than just Delver. Vault Skirge, Glint Hawk, Glint Hawk Idol, Inkmoth Nexus, and Spirit tokens. Flipped, it kills a lot more. Garruk Relentless also has a long list of targets. Huntmaster Shocks things when he flips.

Stronger threats? We're playing some of the strongest threats in the format right now!

Quote from bokchoy

Yeah, because you'd totally side out War and Peace for Feast and Famine against decks with Slagstorm and DoJ (ie. Red and White decks).

Exactly. War and Peace IS #1 right now, and that's why it's in the maindeck and Feast and Famine is in the sideboard. The Feast and Famine vs. Body and Mind discussion was in regards to the mirror.

Quote from DNAphreaker

Well, killing your enemy quickly is pretty much what you want to be doing regardless of what deck they are playing. That's not to say Hellrider may be better in certain match ups, but generally speaking his damage output really begins to stack up. I'd potentially pull 1-2 to the SB in certain match ups.

Not necessarily. Right now, we actually play a more controlling role in most matchups. Humans, Delver, Tempered Steel, and RDW are faster, but we have a stronger mid-game, can generate lots of card advantage (Geist, Daybreak Ranger, Huntmaster, Garruk, Arc Trail can all easily 2-for-1), and we can tutor for answers. But against Wolf Run, we are the beatdown. You specifically want to kill them before they drop a Titan (or shortly after).

Are you saying Hellrider dies to Emissary and Solemn? Just trying to clarify what you're saying here.

I am saying that he doesn't die, and that is why I agree he is better than Hero of Oxid Ridge in the matchup.

Just because you can't GSZ or tutor for a specific creature in an archetype doesn't make it bad for the deck. You can't GSZ for Inferno Titan but he's still an amazing creature to have in Wolf Run, and you can't tutor up Garruk here but he's still great to have in your arsenal. There is certainly competition in that slot, which is why I'm still working on the count. And having Hellrider doesn't make Tanglewurm worse; with the amount of G creatures and generation inherent to the deck, you'll still virtually always kill them on a drop. And even if Hellrider is out, that's more free damage to the face.

I'm just pointing out the pros and cons. Giving you some comparison on Hellrider vs. Huntmaster or Thrun.

SoBaM is slow is what respect, decking? It's not there to deck your opponent. It's better than SoFaF in the mirror because it helps you outrace your opponent by generating a stronger board presence potentially every turn.

Compare it to the other Swords:

-Stat bonuses are the same.
-Sword of War and Peace: Deals damage = to # of cards in opponent's hand (everyone's seen how fast this can end games).
-Sword of Body and Mind: 2/2 wolf token.
-Sword of Feast and Famine: Untap all lands, allowing you to further your board presence (with the extra mana, you're often able to play something better than a 2/2) or tap out using Kessig Wolf Run during combat, then untap for your 2nd main phase.

There's a reason why Sword of Body and Mind is one-third the price of the others.

Evasion and getting additional free creatures is huge in an aggro mirror, while the milling of their threats is just an afterthought.

Evasion in the mirror (pro-green) is the same for both FaF and BaM. And eliminating ACTUAL cards from their hand is far stronger than milling cards they don't have access to (besides using GSZ).

I can see Hellrider being good against Wolf Run variants, when you want to kill them quickly and where he doesn't die to Viridian Emissary or Solemn Simulacrum. Other than that, I'm not sure. There's a lot of competition at the 4-drop slot, you can't GSZ for him, and he makes Tanglewurm worse.

What I don't like about SoBaM is that it's slow. And if you don't end up decking them with it, you might actually be helping them. I also don't see how it's better than SoFaF in the mirror.

I think it's just easier to get value out of Garruk Relentless in this metagame, with all of the 1/1 flying tokens and other small creatures around. He costs less and does a better job of protecting himself. Of course, Primal Hunter is awesome in control matchups as a draw 3-4 spell (green Tidings!), and he's another difficult-to-answer threat for them, which is why I like him more as a sideboard card.

I think it will take some more testing to determine which 1-of bullet creatures to include, as we figure out how often we want to search for them in actual games. I feel like most of the time we'll be fetching either turn-2 Birds or a Titan, and Acidic Slime every so often. Against mono-red, I want a Huntmaster or Thrun almost every time. Cards like Bellowing Tanglewurm, Vorapede, and Predator Ooze are nice to have access to, but I wonder if they are actually worth the slot.

Hey, good thread. I say we should try to get an [Official] tag on this sucker.

I played a very non-ideal list (NO Copperline Gorges or Huntmasters) at FNM last week and went 3-1 (losing to B/W tokens), but it showed me that this deck definitely has promise. This is what I'd like to be playing right now:




Also, this G/R Aggro list made the Top 32 at SCG Richmond last weekend (the first major post-DKA Standard event).




Yes, two Mono-Green decks did finish higher. Those lists are very similar, but I'll gladly trade Dungrove Elder for a bunch of sweet Red cards!

Really surprised at the 1 Garruk Relentless/3 Primal Hunter split in Todd's deck. The "fight" ability seems important for a deck that otherwise lacks removal, and there are so many good targets right now!

(Aside: The spelling of "Aggro" in this thread's title really bothers me...)

@RealOG47 There a card missing from your updated sideboard?

The deck looks awesome! As a side note, it seems like an INS Block Constructed port would be really fun to mess around with online. You lose a bit of speed and dual lands, but have more time to work with in that format.

Quote from fractius

Featured by Patrick Chapin on 2012-02-05

^ Decklist from the future?!?!

I played a list very similar to Chapin's at FNM tonight - went 3-1, losing to W/B Tokens. I don't own any Huntmasters yet, but he seems like an easy inclusion. Also, I missed Predator Ooze, he could be a nice dude to tutor for.

Anyway, concerning the OP: I think ramping into Huntmaster/Garruk/Thrun is where you want to be with this deck. Cheaper removal spells like Galvanic Blast, Arc Trail, and Incinerate have less drawbacks than the cards you're playing, and they give you some reach when you need those last few points of damage.