If that's the problem you're facing, you could always try restricting yourself. For example, can you win with a pauper deck? If not, what about a rare-less deck? Etc...
Sigh. I'm one of the people who commented on Brentane's post on facebook.
I also clarified that my problem isn't with netdecking. It's bringing decks clearly designed for tournaments to a casual setting. I am not familiar with the tourney scene, but, as examples:
I have been told that his cloudpost/eldrazi deck is based on a modern thing.
I know that Seething Song is banned in modern because Dragonstorm, and I played during Time Spiral, when someone apparently did quite well with a dragonstorm deck by not actually including any dragons in it, and just waiting for everyone to concede when he cast dragonstorm with a high enough storm count.
I know merfolk is a legacy deck of note.
While I don't know the specific details of these decks, I do know that the main parts of each deck are well known.
Furthermore, I am friends with him on this site, and there's a link at the top that show my friends posting history. He posts mostly in deck discussion threads about tourney decks. So, yes. I know he is netdecking. I don't know how much he has changed his deck from the posted ones, because frankly, I don't care.
My problem isn't with netdecking. I don't think anyone in our group has a problem with netdecking specifically. It's bringing tourney-quality decks to a casual setting. Other people have expressed this same concern. There are two people who have actually said stuff about his netdecking, and one of them only said stuff about when Brentane tried Izzetmage's idea in the past, claiming a deck was his own when it was 1 card different to a modern deck. Credit where credit is due...
When people are playing casual jank decks, the correct move is to bring along casual jank decks. Bringing along tourney quality decks is what you do when you want to ruin everyone's fun.
I'd go with the first round of commander precons. Riku/Zedruu/Kaalia/Karador/Ghave/Mimeoplasm/Damia. (I honestly can't remember which was the advertised commander for the WGB and GBU precons). Which makes the new set somewhat hopefully interesting for me, but the enchantment theme in Theros left me greatly disappointed.
Can someone explain why Erebos would be included? Even the decks that want as many Greed-like effects as they can get avoid him because they don't want opponents bribery-ing him out and stopping their lifegain. (Please note, this is NOT support for Erebos. I think he should not be included, and am trying to figure out why anyone would suggest otherwise.)
While I don't rate it as highly as Thassa, in general my philosophy in picking cards for EDH is to keep an eye for cards that do multiple things. Erebos 1) draws you cards 2) lets you clamp down on lifegain shenanigans, and 3) can be a 5/7 creature. And it's indestructible to boot, and potentially can't even be targeted by creature-exiling effects. Any one of those things would not be enough to make the list for me as lots of cards do many of those, the fact that with one card in a tightly packed list I can find a single card like this that fills 2 or 3 roles (one of them being card draw) makes me rate it highly.
As for the Bribery complaint, that really takes the "dies to removal" complaint to the next level, doesn't it? If a creature is good (most likely to be on this list), then it's almost by definition a good bribery target. As for this card in particular being a problem for bribery, I don't see it unless you are running a lifegain combo deck. It's most valuable ability requires the caster to also be in black to be useful, and requires they have other black permanent on the field to make a creature.
Normally, I'd agree with you regarding Bribery. Here's the thing though... The only decks I see that run greed are those gaining so much life that the "2 life" bit of "a mana and 2 life" is irrelevant. That would be the lifegain combo decks. The other two abilities are nice, and I'd actually play Erebos in Obzedat if he didn't have that lifegain prevention bit. Especially since I already have Greed, Necrologia, Bloodgift Demon, Graveborn Muse, Well of Lost Dreams, Phyrexian Arena, Promise of Power and Ad Nauseum to take advantage of my swelling life total. I would rather look into Ambition's Cost/Ancient Craving or Phyrexian Gargantua. Hell, I just found out that Harrowing Journey exists, I should be able to get my hands on one of those pretty easily.
I will agree with 2 more swords, Fire/Ice (card draw = more stuff to play) and Feast/Famine (untap = more ways to play stuff). I might agree on War/Peace if you are trying to get them down to 0, rather than 21 commander damage, but even then... I won't agree on Body/Mind. Milling 10 in EDH gives people reanimation targets, and that's a bad thing to give them.
I did originally think of Steelshaper's Apprentice as weak. But once he's fetched lightning greaves and sword of feast and famine, he's more than paid his own mana cost.
The article writer mentions somewhere in the comments that he means "cards that affect the board" when he says "action cards". Answers affect the board. Equipment affect the board. Etc... So, these are still "action cards". It's a poor choice of words, but it works well enough.
And he also mentions that concentrate is used as a baseline. Someone asks about mono-colored decks later (specifically mono-red), and Mind's Eye is the usual response.
I'm going to point out to anyone who is looking at that situation that Mask of Memory is the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to artifact card draw. It draws. It fills up the graveyard for all your reanimation needs. It plays card selection. It gives you more land in the early game, and less land in the later game. It is even tutorable with Godo and all the white equipment tutors.
Can someone explain why Erebos would be included? Even the decks that want as many Greed-like effects as they can get avoid him because they don't want opponents bribery-ing him out and stopping their lifegain. (Please note, this is NOT support for Erebos. I think he should not be included, and am trying to figure out why anyone would suggest otherwise.)
You can argue that Derevi and Oloro's mechanics are "bad" mechanics and that you personally don't like them for the precedent they set. But in MP they are far from busted. Both commanders are powerful more because of their colors then any other reason.
I've been thinking that the many of the Commander 2013 generals don't feel like they are all their colors. It's almost like they have an extra color tacked on just because.
Most 3 color legends in magic are part of a cycle, like the Elder Dragons where they are supposed to embody 1 color, but have other colors too. Nicol Bolas is the 'black' Elder Dragon. Treva is the 'white' invasion dragon.
The Alara 3 color legends often were tailored to their shards ability, like Rafiq being an the best exalted card or Sedris being the lord of unearth.
One thing about the commander product is that the legends seem to start with the color combination and then the abilities are built on and the card may not necessarily need to be all it's colors.
Looking at Roon, He has Vigilance so he has to be white. He is a Rhino so that could make him green, but Rhox Faithmender is white. Flicker is in white and blue, but we see it more often in white these days then in blue. In Roon's case, he might have been able to see print as a monowhite card or even just a green white card, but he gets to be all 3.
Derevi is a small flying bird that makes the card either blue or white. She has an untap ability which makes her solidly blue and flash is primarily in blue. Why does this card cost green mana? Derevi could be monoblue.
Nekasaur's effect is howling mine which is often on artifacts, but does appear on blue cards like Kami of the Crescent Moon. His other ability is Underworld Dreams which is as black as it comes. Why is he also red? His creature types aren't even red. He could just be Dimir.
Prossh is a Dragon, rah rah red! He also makes 0/1 Kobalds, very red. He makes them in mass maybe that makes him green, but red gets to do that too for many of it's token producers. I wouldn't classify mass token production as only being green. His sac ability is very black. He could be Rakdos. The green is a bit of a stretch.
Oloro also fits Esper fine. Life Gain is white, drawing cards is blue, and making your opponent's lose life is black.
To be fair, the multicolor thing happens a lot. For example, Garruk has 4 abilities: Destroying a planeswalker (a black ability), creating a deathtouching creature (black and green both get access to this), destroying a creature (a black ability) and an ultimate (the only ability which doesn't make sense in black). They could put any other ability there and call it a mono-black planeswalker. Sliver Hivelord wouldn't be questioned if it was mono-green or mono-white. What does red or blue have to do with making creatures indestructible?
Looking over all multicolor cards from Journey into Nyx...
Now, sure... Some of that is debatable. But if we had a card that allowed you to put +1/+1 counters on creatures, look for creatures, enchantments or planeswalkers, and gain life in green, and it was an enchantment-heavy block, I don't think anyone would bat an eye if it was mono-green or mono-white. If we had an artifact creature with flash, deathtouch and flying, sure, it might cost a fair bit of mana, but we've had Darksteel Sentinel, Wurmcoil Engine and Steel Hellkite in recent years.
That's all of M15 and Journey into Nyx. A lot of multi-color cards make sense as single color. Or artifact in the rare case.
I think the common idea is good, but there is a way to make it flavorful and exciting while sticking to that.
At the beginning of the game, you start with 3 loyalty counters. You also start with a signature common spell, a signature uncommon spell and a signature rare spell, each has to be an instant or sorcery.
Once per turn when you could cast a sorcery, you may activate one of the following:
Pay the cost of your signature common and gain 1 loyalty counter: Put a copy of the signature common spell on the stack.
Pay the cost of your signature uncommon and lose 1 loyalty counter: Put a copy of the signature uncommon spell on the stack.
Pay the cost of your signature rare and lose 5 loyalty counters: Put a copy of the signature rare spell on the stack.
Whenever an opponent deals damage to you, that player may instead choose to remove a number of loyalty counters from you equal to the damage he would deal.
You are a planeswalker. Have fun. Also feel free to adjust the numbers.
Hi there.
I ordered a Riku of Two Reflections after reading your tread, and I am blazing with excitement to start building a deck around him, however I would like to ask you a question: is it possible to build a Riku deck that is a halfway between spellsinger and creature toolbox? I would like to explore his Izzet side a bit more since my Kresh deck is a zoo and a wild garden.
Thank you,
TSZ:
You could do something token-y. There are plenty of creatures, instants and sorceries that produce tokens, or pump them. I can honestly say that the spellslinger build is all kinds of fun, and effective. I've been tempted to go back to it, and possibly even write a primer that gets updated, since DramaTurtle has been absent for quite a while. (Similar thoughts on Zedruu after Dechs took down his Zedruu primer, although my Zedruu build was heading in an entirely different direction.)
Basically, anything that has a sac effect works. Nin's pseudo-sac effect works as well.
With this in mind...
ETB effects, or death-triggers are good.
Size isn't as important. Who cares if you have a 2/2 or a 5/5 if you plan on killing it soon anyway.
Artifact hate is more useful than ever, since EtB effects are a staple to you and you need to kill Torpor Orb. Pity you don't get as much enchantment removal for Humility, so... hope it's not common in your metagame.
You probably want some backup sac outlets in case your commander gets tucked.
I also clarified that my problem isn't with netdecking. It's bringing decks clearly designed for tournaments to a casual setting. I am not familiar with the tourney scene, but, as examples:
I have been told that his cloudpost/eldrazi deck is based on a modern thing.
I know that Seething Song is banned in modern because Dragonstorm, and I played during Time Spiral, when someone apparently did quite well with a dragonstorm deck by not actually including any dragons in it, and just waiting for everyone to concede when he cast dragonstorm with a high enough storm count.
I know merfolk is a legacy deck of note.
While I don't know the specific details of these decks, I do know that the main parts of each deck are well known.
Furthermore, I am friends with him on this site, and there's a link at the top that show my friends posting history. He posts mostly in deck discussion threads about tourney decks. So, yes. I know he is netdecking. I don't know how much he has changed his deck from the posted ones, because frankly, I don't care.
My problem isn't with netdecking. I don't think anyone in our group has a problem with netdecking specifically. It's bringing tourney-quality decks to a casual setting. Other people have expressed this same concern. There are two people who have actually said stuff about his netdecking, and one of them only said stuff about when Brentane tried Izzetmage's idea in the past, claiming a deck was his own when it was 1 card different to a modern deck. Credit where credit is due...
When people are playing casual jank decks, the correct move is to bring along casual jank decks. Bringing along tourney quality decks is what you do when you want to ruin everyone's fun.
Normally, I'd agree with you regarding Bribery. Here's the thing though... The only decks I see that run greed are those gaining so much life that the "2 life" bit of "a mana and 2 life" is irrelevant. That would be the lifegain combo decks. The other two abilities are nice, and I'd actually play Erebos in Obzedat if he didn't have that lifegain prevention bit. Especially since I already have Greed, Necrologia, Bloodgift Demon, Graveborn Muse, Well of Lost Dreams, Phyrexian Arena, Promise of Power and Ad Nauseum to take advantage of my swelling life total. I would rather look into Ambition's Cost/Ancient Craving or Phyrexian Gargantua. Hell, I just found out that Harrowing Journey exists, I should be able to get my hands on one of those pretty easily.
The decks that don't run that much life gain? They'd rather run Staff of Nin, Mind's Eye and Mask of Memory.
I did originally think of Steelshaper's Apprentice as weak. But once he's fetched lightning greaves and sword of feast and famine, he's more than paid his own mana cost.
Finally, consider a Ranger of Eos package. You can pack Student of Warfare and Kor Duelist for doublestrike. Benevolent Bodyguard and Mother of Runes for protection (which kinda works as evasion).
And he also mentions that concentrate is used as a baseline. Someone asks about mono-colored decks later (specifically mono-red), and Mind's Eye is the usual response.
I'm going to point out to anyone who is looking at that situation that Mask of Memory is the best thing since sliced bread when it comes to artifact card draw. It draws. It fills up the graveyard for all your reanimation needs. It plays card selection. It gives you more land in the early game, and less land in the later game. It is even tutorable with Godo and all the white equipment tutors.
Can someone explain why Erebos would be included? Even the decks that want as many Greed-like effects as they can get avoid him because they don't want opponents bribery-ing him out and stopping their lifegain. (Please note, this is NOT support for Erebos. I think he should not be included, and am trying to figure out why anyone would suggest otherwise.)
To be fair, the multicolor thing happens a lot. For example, Garruk has 4 abilities: Destroying a planeswalker (a black ability), creating a deathtouching creature (black and green both get access to this), destroying a creature (a black ability) and an ultimate (the only ability which doesn't make sense in black). They could put any other ability there and call it a mono-black planeswalker. Sliver Hivelord wouldn't be questioned if it was mono-green or mono-white. What does red or blue have to do with making creatures indestructible?
Looking over all multicolor cards from Journey into Nyx...
Ajani, Mentor of Heroes could be mono-green or mono-white. Athreos, God of Passage could be mono-black. Desperate Stand could be mono-white. Disciple of Deceit could be mono-black. Nyx Weaver could be mono-green. Pharika, God of Affliction could be mono-green. Revel of the Fallen God could be mono-green or mono-red. Stormchaser Chimera could be mono-red. Underworld Coinsmith could arguably be mono-black.
Fleetfeather cockatrice requires two colors... but all 3 abilities appear on artifacts.
Iroas, God of Victory, Keranos, God of Storms, and Kruphix, God of Horizons are the only ones that make sense only as a multicolor spell.
Now, sure... Some of that is debatable. But if we had a card that allowed you to put +1/+1 counters on creatures, look for creatures, enchantments or planeswalkers, and gain life in green, and it was an enchantment-heavy block, I don't think anyone would bat an eye if it was mono-green or mono-white. If we had an artifact creature with flash, deathtouch and flying, sure, it might cost a fair bit of mana, but we've had Darksteel Sentinel, Wurmcoil Engine and Steel Hellkite in recent years.
That's all of M15 and Journey into Nyx. A lot of multi-color cards make sense as single color. Or artifact in the rare case.
At the beginning of the game, you start with 3 loyalty counters. You also start with a signature common spell, a signature uncommon spell and a signature rare spell, each has to be an instant or sorcery.
Once per turn when you could cast a sorcery, you may activate one of the following:
Pay the cost of your signature common and gain 1 loyalty counter: Put a copy of the signature common spell on the stack.
Pay the cost of your signature uncommon and lose 1 loyalty counter: Put a copy of the signature uncommon spell on the stack.
Pay the cost of your signature rare and lose 5 loyalty counters: Put a copy of the signature rare spell on the stack.
Whenever an opponent deals damage to you, that player may instead choose to remove a number of loyalty counters from you equal to the damage he would deal.
You are a planeswalker. Have fun. Also feel free to adjust the numbers.
Fabricate can also fetch the whip.
Rite of Consumption can also pretend to be lifelink if you already have a huge creature.
You could do something token-y. There are plenty of creatures, instants and sorceries that produce tokens, or pump them. I can honestly say that the spellslinger build is all kinds of fun, and effective. I've been tempted to go back to it, and possibly even write a primer that gets updated, since DramaTurtle has been absent for quite a while. (Similar thoughts on Zedruu after Dechs took down his Zedruu primer, although my Zedruu build was heading in an entirely different direction.)
Basically, anything that has a sac effect works. Nin's pseudo-sac effect works as well.
With this in mind...
ETB effects, or death-triggers are good.
Size isn't as important. Who cares if you have a 2/2 or a 5/5 if you plan on killing it soon anyway.
Artifact hate is more useful than ever, since EtB effects are a staple to you and you need to kill Torpor Orb. Pity you don't get as much enchantment removal for Humility, so... hope it's not common in your metagame.
You probably want some backup sac outlets in case your commander gets tucked.