MTG Salvation

This set is nuts. Cuts are really tough at 360 and I'm only 100% sure about some of these.

Requisition Raid --> Oblivion Ring (O-Ring is a classic, but there's a lot of targeted removal floating around, I appreciate the versatility of Raid.)
Slickshot Lockpicker --> Xerex Strobe-Knight (This is fine.)
Forsaken Miner --> Gifted Aetherborn (Not sure on this one. I want the Miner, but finding a cut was real tough.)
Hollow Marauder --> Hypnotic Specter (Good-bye, old friend.)
Spinewoods Armadillo --> Generous Ent (Iffy on this one, too. The body is bigger and better than Ent, but adding a G to the cycling cost is a real bummer.)
Aloe Alchemist --> Wall of Blossoms (Do I really want the Alchemist? Blossoms is still a pretty damn sweet card, even after all these years.)
Honest Rutstein --> Baloth Null (This one is a no-brainer, IMO. I love the Baloth, but the value from Rutstein is just too much to pass up.)
Lavaspur Boots --> Mortarpod (Mortarpod is decent, but it's not a great sac outlet for those strategies. I think the Boots will see more play.)

Agreed on the Outlaws basics. Looking forward to picking up a set of foils. That Plains is so good.

What basic lands are you guys running? I came across a bunch of Korean Tempest lands a few years back after my buddy bought a collection and donated them to the cube. I'm thinking of upgrading to something in foil, but not sure what I want to change to.

I'm thinking these are my swaps. I'm not 100% about the cuts, but these are my gut choices. Immodane's Recruiter seems gone too soon.

Craig Boone, Novac Guard --> Immodane's Recruiter
Gary Clone --> Custodi Squire
Crimson Caravaneer --> Rimrock Knight

As a spreadsheet nerd, I do a lot of comparison and analysis between my cube and others on Cube Cobra. Typically findings for guilds show a consensus across the board outside of Dimir and Selesnya. Every other guild seems to be in agreement on the top three or four cards. Selesnya has Knight of Autumn and then crickets. Dimir has Baleful Strix and then crickets.

To answer the question, yes, I think a 465 cube can support 4 per guild at this point without sacrificing power level or having gold cards go last pick. There's some powerful stuff available in most guilds these days, some even first pickable.

At 540 here are my Dimir and Selesnya sections:

Voice of Resurgence (probably going to try Torsten in the slot)
Kitchen Finks (more of a pet card these days, but I support persist combo, so it plays there)
Knight of Autumn (staple)
Knight of the Reliquary (a favorite among my group)
Mirari's Wake (a favorite among my group)

Baleful Strix (staple)
Rona, Herald of Invasion (solid looter, powerful flip side)
Sauron's Ransom (new addition)
Ertai Resurrected (solid role player)
Fallen Shinobi (a favorite among my group)

I'd also agree that cube threads feel like a thing of the past with utilities like CubeCobra around. We're no longer limited to posting our updates only on our cube threads or having cube pics here. I am nostalgic for those forum days, but I accept reality. You'll get more conversation in single card discussion or This or That threads.

Quote from FunkyDragon »

I've been through the entire set, and I have to say this set just doesn't do it for me. Not a fan of cloak, disguise, detective tribal, investigate matters, suspect, collect evidence, or even cases (the least bad mechanic?).

Big same. There's definitely zero standouts for any of my cubes. A strictly better Terramorphic is certainly sweet, but I never expected that it would be probably the only include for me.

This definitely replaces Hero if people are still running it. I'd be willing to try this over Hellrider. The devil has had it's day in the sun for a very long time now, so new blood in the four drop slot for aggro is interesting. It's also very similar in power level, but is easier to cast, so that's not nothing. And not only do you get that burst of damage on four, but you also get some card advantage going forward to help seal the deal if you don't win that turn.

Resto > Hero > Paragon > Lieutenant = Archangel > Halvar

Vanguard >>> Atraxa's Fall > Poison > Wilt

Quote from wtwlf123 »

You know it attacks as a 5/5 lifelinker for its first attack? This creature has savage stats for a 4-mana threat, in addition to the other bonkers stuff you get from the initiative.

Oh, for sure. Not trying to insinuate that it's not worthy of vintage cube or that others shouldn't include it. It's just not what I'm personally looking for in an initiative/monarch enabler.

I am, however, considering upping the power level of my peasant cube with Seer and a couple others.

Quote from Alan Yuan »

The problem I have with a card like this is casting spells off the top of your opponent's library feels WAY too oppressive and give the opponent very limited breathing space.

This is exactly what I want to do in cube, though.

Monarch and Initiative seem to be a point where the cube community, in general, is split. I'm not interested in running a card in my powered cube just because it provides Initiative/Monarch. If the two halves together equal out to be a card that I think makes the cut, then it makes the cut. I'm not interested in Passageway Seer, for example, because I don't think a slowly growing four mana 2/2 lifelinker is worth it - regardless of how powerful goining through The Undercity can be.

I'm much more interested in an enabler like Court of Locthwain (and Court of Garenbrig), because even if you lose Monarch, the cards themselves are still doing pretty powerful things - even by Vintage cube standards.

My group has also been very happy with Monarch/Initiative enablers in our environment(s), so it's probably just a matter of taste. If turn two Tinker into Blightsteel is fine, then these Monarch Courts are probably fine as well. Perhaps even more so as it pertains to how "fair" they are.

I've been a fan of black aggro decks since Carnophage was printed in Exodus and stole my heart. That's honestly my number one reason for not wanting to cut the black 1-drops from my own list (though, I have cut Carnophage at this point )

With that said, outside of my love for aggressive black strategies, I still like the recursive 1-drops in black for a couple of reasons. First, sacrifice decks are powerful and successful synergy decks to build in my cube. I'm also a huge fan of Pox (I know, don't @ me), and in those shells, these recursive dorks do work. Beyond that, I support Persist combo in my 720 add-on for the cube, and when that comes in these creatures tend to be higher picks because they naturally synergize with several of the cards for that deck.

I do think we've reached a point in cube philosophy that these types of creatures are no longer auto-includes. There was a time where we would scoff at a cube that wasn't running Carnophage and Gravecrawler. What were they even doing in black? But now, those days are behind us. Black doesn't have to be the aggro support color and really has plenty of powerful options to really give it an identity in vintage cube. I do still enjoy a good old Rakdos or Orzhov aggro deck, though. But that's probably my own nostalgic bias speaking.

As an aggro/midrange player, I've always disliked the idea of storm in cube. My group, on the other hand, are fans, so when I put together an add-on to bring the cube to 720+ when we get 8 for a draft, I threw the usual storm suspects in there. Recently, though, I've grown more fond of a card like Brain Freeze (as opposed to Tendrils or other storm options) as a win con in powered cubes. You don't have to be "the storm deck" to win with Brain Freeze. Sometimes you draw it early and can craft you game plan around it. Sometimes you get the full on LED/Breach/Freeze combo.

At our last cube night, I - the aggro/midrange player - was passed LED/Breach/Freeze, so I thought what the heck, let's go. The deck I drafted ended up being an Izzet spells/tokens deck that just so happened to have the combo win. I was able to "go off" in two of my games and - even as the guy who's known for aggro and fair decks - it was so much fun. In one game I knew my opponent had an Eldrazi, but I went off anyway. He had me go through the motions and get to enough storm count to mill him, then he showed me the Eldrazi in his hand. What a fun match and specifically what a fun game.

I've been happy with including the LED/Breach/Freeze combo in my 540 list. I don't think I'm interested in going all in on storm at that size, but Brain Freeze specifically has really been an impressive and fun inclusion for us.

I think Gut is a great card for lower power environments. The card is powerful, but it's not Rabblemaster powerful. I really like it in peasant cube, where it feels like the Rabblemaster peasant cubers were waiting on. For vintage style cubes, though, I don't think it makes the cut even in larger 720 lists. There are just so many good Rabblemaster variants and new cards like Bombardiers and Death-Greeter that are more aggressive and even more synergistic in those lists than Gut.

Quote from Leelue »

Oh, people really like playing it. But if you tell people around here "Let's play a cube, but you can't reanimate Sundering Titan on turn two or play Splinter Twin because instead we have balanced gameplay", people tend to pass. They instinctively would rather make airplane and laser noises with their mouths while doing "powerful things"

lol - I feel this so much. I have multiple cubes and the powered vintage list is by far "the cube". When the guys come over for cube, that's the one they expect to come out first. The others I've built tend to be the ones we draft once we've ran through the powered list. Even then, there are inevitable groans and declarations of "these cards all suck" when the packs are opened for peasant after playing Power and all that comes with vintage cube.

As for Ring Tempting, I think a card like Samwise is probably good enough even without the ring text. I imagine the reason we don't see people playing these cards is two-fold. One, there's just not that many options that are good enough on their own like Samwise at the peasant rarity. Two, people tend to shy away from mechanics like this in general.