Reality Smasher and Eldrazi Obligator are great at flying in and taking out a Jace and adding in Bloodbraid Elf would probably only make that easier. The deck does seem quire well rounded with all of the creatures being big enough to take out most other creatures in the format. Eldrazi Obligator can steal opposing Death's Shadows or Primeval Titans that we can't attack through, and Endbringer is a swiss army knife of reach paired with Lightning Bolt or a card advantage engine. You still get the same possibility of a Turn 2 Thought-Knot Seer as Bant Eldrazi, and by not playing sweepers in the main you keep the dorks around. The deck does seem very well positioned against Affinity, Humans, Burn, and all of the other low to the ground linear aggro decks. Cavern of Souls helps against Blue decks, so it's only the combo or big mana decks that look to be a real problem. Where Bant Eldrazi has the grinding power with Eldrazi Displacer and Drowner of Hope, this deck has a faster clock. A rough draft jamming in BBE could look like this:
BBE isn't as powerful as in other decks like Jund, but it could really add to the aggro plan by hitting a Bolt or Obligator.
Hey Torpf, a deck similar to this 5-0'd today.
BBE is powerful here - if I'm not mistaken, you can BBE into Obligator and then use the cast trigger on Obligator to steal an opponents creature.
Three hasty creatures and remove an opponents creature - all for 4 mana + an Eldrazi Temple - I know I'll be trying this out soon
The sideboard is intentionally incomplete as I'd like to get everyone's thoughts on this before I finalize it.
The cards at hand and their roles: Abrupt Decay: Catch all 3cmc removal. Generally broad; dont want to run too much as it's not chord/coco friendly. Anafenza: I'm not sold on this spot. I need something for GY hate; and this seems to be the best solution that's asymmetrical. Living end and Dredge are still tricky, though. Burrenton Forge-tender: Pretty straight forward. May swap for a Kor Firewalker, but BFT is better for Anger of the Gods we might see. Eidolon: Storm; with splash uses on decks that we want to try to keep tempo parity with. Linvala: Mirror Path to Exile: Obviously when removal is needed. I feel like 3x is the right number Sideboard. Pharika: For decks that run heavy removal. Creates yet another value engine and chumps death's shadow very well. Nice utility. Phyrexian Revoker: Obviously a pithing needle on wheels. I like this against Tron where we can normally combo off T3-T4 uninterrupted, but if we need to buy a few turns this shuts down Karn in a pinch. Qasali Pridemage: I feel like I should just board this in 100% of the time. Most decks are going to be running Cages or RIP against us sideboard. May as well have it proactively.
Other thoughts:
I've noticed an uptick in surgical extraction / extirpate effected on MTGO lately. I'm considering a singleton Anafenza, Kin Tree Spirit as an alternate means to combo infinite life off finks, in the face of an extraction on Vizier (Which seems to be the pick, as people have figured out its the common card in two combos). Thoughts on this gameplan?
Open to any other criticism. I'd say the least used card mainboard of mine is the Selfless Spirit; but every so often it gets me there. I'm almost inclined to swap that for the Anafenza.
I'm also feeling like a Fiend Hunter should be in the 75. Normally he just feels like a dead draw, but if we're expecting Linvala in the mirror (or in other white decks) we need a tutorable way to deal with it.
More thoughts on matchups (or specifically, the bad ones):
- Living End is a pain. Remember to kill your Druid in response to a living end cascade spell. You want this in your graveyard when it resolves. Once they land a Living end it tends to be a 2-turn clock. Having the druid on board can be the difference between a combo finish and dying quickly. Generally unfavored
- Death and Taxes can be tricky. Between their tax effects, sideboard options, and ability to manipulate your ability to search / tutor, it can be rather tough. Tax their removal as much as possible, and often I'll find myself leaning on Duskwatch Recruiter to find missing combo pieces rather than CoCo/Chord. Slightly unfavored but close
- URx Control still feels impossible. They have the same level of recursion and resiliance as us with Snapcaster, and they run a LOT of removal that hits us. Electrolyze, Bolts, Snapcaster, makes it really tough to get a combo online. Generally ends up being a fair gameplan here. Gavony Township and Finks tend to be the MVP. Way unfavored
Other than these 3, I feel pretty good in most matchups. Death's Shadow can be very swingy. They have a lot of pressure and discard, but if you can constantly threaten the combo, its pretty probable you can stick it at some point. Grixis Death's Shadow is another story. Similar to the URx control above. They dont generally have Snapcaster, but they have removal and a faster clock than URx control.
Maybe Anafenza Kin-tree Spirit over Rhonas? It gives you inifinte bolster/attack as an alternate win con.
Spellskites in the main help a ton against UR. I don't run Rallier, I run 2 Spellskites and 1 Fairgrounds Warden instead.
Scavenging Ooze in the side helps against Snapcaster.
Consider Spellskite instead of Selfless Spirit main? Burrenton Forge Tender and Selfless Spirit are good in the board - you can bring them in when you know there are board sweepers coming.
Leylines help against Death Shadow discard/liliana, and give free wins against burn. You can also bring them in against Scapeshift/storm and other random things.
1 Qasali Pridemage & 1 Rec Sage is probably better than 2 Pridemage.
Linvala is a must in the board for the mirror, along with another Fairgrounds Warden/Fiend Hunter. Also consider Orzhov Pontif.
Eidolon is good against storm/ad naus. Also consider Kambal, Counsul of Allocation, and Sin Collector.
My main holdup on Leyline is it's not exactly good off CoCo/Chord; so I'd likely be cutting 1-2 of those and then 1-2 dorks to fit them in, and to keep critical mass of creatures so that CoCo isnt questionable.
I run 4 Chord 4 Coco 1 Evo.
Against discard/attrition decks I would usually cut the 1x Evo as it is easy to get stranded with no creatures. Likely I would cut 1-2 dorks and possibly 1 Chord/Coco.
I'm also not opposed to siding into a 61 card deck.
How has Leyline treated you? Its something I'm considering to shore up those matchups; as they tend to be the worst (aside from URx Control decks, but those arent a huge meta consideration right now)
Leyline has been good. My first list was pure GW with no Finks (it only had Archangel/Feeder for lifegain), so I needed 4x Leyline for the burn matchup.
After running that list once I moved to the abzan splash with 2 Visera Seer/4 Finks (as above), so burn was much less of an issue.
My meta has a lot of 8-rack, Death Shadow, Jund/Abzan - basically decks with at least 6-8 1-mana discard + Lili of the Veil.
Leyline is great to side in there. Three Leylines seems about right as its hard to find sideboard space, plus you don't want to dilute the main-deck that much.
Also having Spellskites main is great. Leyline/spellskite into Druid/Vizier makes comboing a lot safer.
From personal experience I'd stick to option 1.. remaining as streamlined as possible post board and bringing hate for the anticipated hate cards has worked best. In regards to the mirror Linvala, Pontiff and Paths + minimal disruption over MD recursion has done the trick.
What is your current list and sideboard like? I think I've got my 60 sorted; but sideboard is up in the air.
This is my current 75 post play testing last night. The only cards I'm currently looking to potentially slot in the board would be a 2nd Tireless Tracker for Grindier MUs and a Stony Silence to back up Kataki just as cross hate for Ad Naus, Tron Variants. Other than that I'm pretty set on everything else.
This is very close to my list mainboard.
I have the following changes:
+1 Spellskite
+1 Eldritch Evolution
-1 Eternal Witness
-1 Township (I run 21 land - with 3 Forest, 1 Plains, 1 Township)
-I was also running Fairgrounds Warden over Fiend Hunter (mainly because that is what I had handy, but it does only cost 1 white)
Its been working well so far - still not quite sure on 21 land with only 1 Township.
In the board I'm running 3x Leyline of Sanctity which helps a lot against the Thoughtseize/Inquistion/Liliana decks (and makes burn cry as well)
I run 4 Chord 4 Coco 1 Evo. Evo is great, but you generally don't want to draw more than 1 and they are also bad against counters/attrition. So for that reason 1 is fine - I view it as the 5th Chord. I often side it out against Jund or control for example.
If you are running 4 Finks (which you should be) then they make great Evo fodder.
I've been playing the deck the past few FNMs and so far I'm 10-2. I run both druid/vizier, and finks with 1 Anafenza and 2 Seer. Walking Ballista, infinite bolster, or infinite life is the kill.
I've been running Ghostfire Blade for a while, and its actually been pretty awesome. But I run more thopter effects than the average cube (Thopter Engineer probably the main difference, along with Hangarback, Whirler Rogue, P&K, Pia Nalaar, and Eldrazi Skyspawner, Aether Chaser, Angel of Invention etc). I also run Thought-knot/Smasher along with the usual assortment of artifact creatures. Less common artifact creatures I run include Epochrasite, Palladium Myr, Perilous Myr.
What about putting Smuggler's Copter in something like one-drop zoo?
You are already running 4 Nacatl, 4 Kird Ape, 4 Loam Lion, etc.
Copter could probably replace, or even go in addition to Flinthoof Boars. Copter gives you extra reach and selection.
Could it work?
I know I want to try it at some point!
Veteran Motorist may even be not that bad. Naya Zoo Vehicles!
Running Thought-Knot only, and dropped Eldrazi Temple complety. Seems like an interesting idea, as this way you can run the traditional full Titan/Valakut package more easily.
I ended up cutting mine for Sylvan Advocate as it was too boring. Sylvan Advocate is interesting if you are running all 10 dual-man-lands along with some of the other colorless man-lands.
When I've played 4-colors in this deck, I've found the burn matchup to be a problem. You simply do too much damage to yourself trying to get all the colors.
One siege rhino is not enough as you usually fetch-shock at least once to get the siege rhino out.
To get around this I've played 2x Siege Rhino, and a Kitchen Finks, plus other measures such as Lightning Helix or Thragtusk main.
With the naya mana-base its a lot less painful.
In my naya version I'm playing 2 Helix, 1 Finks, 1 Baloth, and 1 Thragtusk main for lifegain. The burn matchup is great now
Finks, Baloth, and Thragtusk are all great against Liliana/Jund/Junk as well.
First people want to make the deck less clunky and now people are taking out Birds?!?
I'd really recommend to keep them. They are so good that we can afford 4 "bad draws" in the late game. They fix your mana (and allow a splash color), they help you through Blood Moon, they accellerate your game plan... Just some situations that come to my mind:
T3 Angel, ideally flickering a Wall?
T2 Witness on fetch?
T4 combo?
T3 Voice into Remand into Voice?
T2 Wall/Voice + Bolt/Path open?
T3 Witness on Bolt with one mana open, same argument for Path?
T3 EE on two drop to get Archmage with one blue mana open?
Chump block Inkmoth Nexus to get another turn?
Chumb block anything to save your ass?
Birds are amazing in the situations you state above. However it is always a question if they live.
Later on, for example turn 4, you draw a bird instead of your 4th land-drop. In that case the bird is a liability. A land would have been better.
Sometimes you accelerate out with birds then it all gets swept away with an Anger. Land would have been better again.
Also, path CAN be a turn 1 play, but granted it is not great. Turn 2 is actually ok - path in their upkeep, they don't get the acceleration until turn 3.
T2 Evo bird into a hate-card can be a play, but again its setting you back on mana.
Birds can help with a splash color, but in my experience blood moon still gets you, and the bird usually dies.
In my last build I went to 24 land Naya with 4 Wall of Omens. The mana ran so much smoother than relying on the birds. I love my birds but I'll try without for a bit.
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Hey Torpf, a deck similar to this 5-0'd today.
BBE is powerful here - if I'm not mistaken, you can BBE into Obligator and then use the cast trigger on Obligator to steal an opponents creature.
Three hasty creatures and remove an opponents creature - all for 4 mana + an Eldrazi Temple - I know I'll be trying this out soon
I've been running 21 land with only 1 Township and 1 Canopy. It leaves me room for an Eldritch Evolution.
My current main list:
1x Anafenza, Kin-Tree Spirit
4x Birds of Paradise
4x Devoted Druid
2x Duskwatch Recruiter
3x Eternal Witness
1x Fairgrounds Warden
4x Kitchen Finks
2x Noble Hierarch
2x Spellskite
2x Viscera Seer
4x Vizier of Remedies
1x Walking Ballista
//Spells
4x Chord of Calling
4x Collected Company
1x Eldritch Evolution
3x Forest
1x Gavony Township
1x Godless Shrine
1x Horizon Canopy
2x Marsh Flats
1x Overgrown Tomb
1x Plains
3x Razorverge Thicket
2x Temple Garden
2x Verdant Catacombs
4x Windswept Heath
1 Burrenton Forge-Tender
1 Fairgrounds Warden
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Sin Collector
1 ??
Maybe Anafenza Kin-tree Spirit over Rhonas? It gives you inifinte bolster/attack as an alternate win con.
Spellskites in the main help a ton against UR. I don't run Rallier, I run 2 Spellskites and 1 Fairgrounds Warden instead.
Scavenging Ooze in the side helps against Snapcaster.
Consider Spellskite instead of Selfless Spirit main? Burrenton Forge Tender and Selfless Spirit are good in the board - you can bring them in when you know there are board sweepers coming.
Leylines help against Death Shadow discard/liliana, and give free wins against burn. You can also bring them in against Scapeshift/storm and other random things.
1 Qasali Pridemage & 1 Rec Sage is probably better than 2 Pridemage.
Linvala is a must in the board for the mirror, along with another Fairgrounds Warden/Fiend Hunter. Also consider Orzhov Pontif.
Eidolon is good against storm/ad naus. Also consider Kambal, Counsul of Allocation, and Sin Collector.
My current board is something like this:
1 Fairgrounds Warden
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
3 Leyline of Sanctity
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Orzhov Pontiff
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Reclamation Sage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Selfless Spirit
1 Sin Collector
1 ??
I'm not sure if you need stuff like Abrupt Decay or Path to Exile.
I run 4 Chord 4 Coco 1 Evo.
Against discard/attrition decks I would usually cut the 1x Evo as it is easy to get stranded with no creatures. Likely I would cut 1-2 dorks and possibly 1 Chord/Coco.
I'm also not opposed to siding into a 61 card deck.
Leyline has been good. My first list was pure GW with no Finks (it only had Archangel/Feeder for lifegain), so I needed 4x Leyline for the burn matchup.
After running that list once I moved to the abzan splash with 2 Visera Seer/4 Finks (as above), so burn was much less of an issue.
My meta has a lot of 8-rack, Death Shadow, Jund/Abzan - basically decks with at least 6-8 1-mana discard + Lili of the Veil.
Leyline is great to side in there. Three Leylines seems about right as its hard to find sideboard space, plus you don't want to dilute the main-deck that much.
Also having Spellskites main is great. Leyline/spellskite into Druid/Vizier makes comboing a lot safer.
This is very close to my list mainboard.
I have the following changes:
+1 Spellskite
+1 Eldritch Evolution
-1 Eternal Witness
-1 Township (I run 21 land - with 3 Forest, 1 Plains, 1 Township)
-I was also running Fairgrounds Warden over Fiend Hunter (mainly because that is what I had handy, but it does only cost 1 white)
Its been working well so far - still not quite sure on 21 land with only 1 Township.
In the board I'm running 3x Leyline of Sanctity which helps a lot against the Thoughtseize/Inquistion/Liliana decks (and makes burn cry as well)
If you are running 4 Finks (which you should be) then they make great Evo fodder.
I've been playing the deck the past few FNMs and so far I'm 10-2. I run both druid/vizier, and finks with 1 Anafenza and 2 Seer. Walking Ballista, infinite bolster, or infinite life is the kill.
Ghostfire blade also works with morphs.
You are already running 4 Nacatl, 4 Kird Ape, 4 Loam Lion, etc.
Copter could probably replace, or even go in addition to Flinthoof Boars. Copter gives you extra reach and selection.
Could it work?
I know I want to try it at some point!
Veteran Motorist may even be not that bad. Naya Zoo Vehicles!
http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/wmcq-top-8-decklists/france-september-2016
4 Primeval Titan
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Thought-Knot Seer
1 Solemn Simulacrum
Spells
4 Rampant Growth
1 Explore
4 Search for Tomorrow
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Scapeshift
1 Primal Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Cinder Glade
4 Stomping Ground
2 Forest
1 Wastes
7 Mountain
4 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2 Windswept Heath
1 Misty Rainforest
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Sudden Shock
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Spellskite
2 Fulminator Mage
1 Tireless Tracker
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Acidic Slime
1 Thragtusk
1 Inferno Titan
Running Thought-Knot only, and dropped Eldrazi Temple complety. Seems like an interesting idea, as this way you can run the traditional full Titan/Valakut package more easily.
One siege rhino is not enough as you usually fetch-shock at least once to get the siege rhino out.
To get around this I've played 2x Siege Rhino, and a Kitchen Finks, plus other measures such as Lightning Helix or Thragtusk main.
With the naya mana-base its a lot less painful.
In my naya version I'm playing 2 Helix, 1 Finks, 1 Baloth, and 1 Thragtusk main for lifegain. The burn matchup is great now
Finks, Baloth, and Thragtusk are all great against Liliana/Jund/Junk as well.
Birds are amazing in the situations you state above. However it is always a question if they live.
Later on, for example turn 4, you draw a bird instead of your 4th land-drop. In that case the bird is a liability. A land would have been better.
Sometimes you accelerate out with birds then it all gets swept away with an Anger. Land would have been better again.
Also, path CAN be a turn 1 play, but granted it is not great. Turn 2 is actually ok - path in their upkeep, they don't get the acceleration until turn 3.
T2 Evo bird into a hate-card can be a play, but again its setting you back on mana.
Birds can help with a splash color, but in my experience blood moon still gets you, and the bird usually dies.
In my last build I went to 24 land Naya with 4 Wall of Omens. The mana ran so much smoother than relying on the birds. I love my birds but I'll try without for a bit.