This x100. Liliana is absolutely backbreaking in the Tron MU. Their only out is O-Ring, which is why I love Pulse as a 3-of.
Yeah Lilinana is in my opinion the single most important card in the UW match up. Not so much for the discard (they have more card advantage than you so it is often best to leave her on 3, rather than discarding threats) but for an out to Iona on black.
Gotta be aware though that a lot of them started running celestial purge in the board since Liliana is such a problem. I had one purged at the last ptq but I had a back up. Shouldn't be that much of a problem if you are running a lot of pinpoint discard but don't get blindsided by it.
Also gotta keep an eye on colonnade too. If you board out your terminates (a mistake) then you will have no way to stop them from bashing Liliana to death. Hardcast ulamog is also a problem obviously.
Molten Rain is vastly better than Sowing Salt. Sowing Salt is too expensive, won't save you. Only costs 4 for them to play Gifts for Iona and Rites. Molten Rain is also very effective in the mirror and does something against combo.
Tin Street Hooligan was my super MVP this past weekend where I beat two tron decks.
I drew him twice despite him being a singleton, but I wish I had at least 2.
He is much better than ancient grudge against tron since he applies pressure unlike ancient grudge.
Turn 2, Hooligan on a map or signet is such a beating.
Downside is he sucks if you cascade into him and he is much worse than ancient grudge against affinity.
If you keep losing to Tron, you should consider Kird Ape. I know 99.99 percent of jund players will say he is bad and screws up the mana base, but turn 1 Kird Ape really puts Tron under a lot of pressure whereas your 2 drop threats, Bob and Goyf just eat up remands until the cows come home.
Also run more raging ravines. It boggles my mind that people are sucessful with 1 or 0 of this card. It is constantly an MVP it puts control in such a bad spot.
Favorite player ever: Me: Declare Attackers?
Control Player: Cryptic Command, Tap your guys and draw.
Me: Activate Raging Ravine, Bash!!
Jit Gitaxis is a cool card but Kozilek is pretty much better in most ways especially if you are running through the breach. I wouldn't want to run a card that just dies to path and doesn't net you any value.
As for affinity idk that deck beat me in the finals of the last modern tournament I played in, maybe try Pithing Needle to put the breaks on cranial plating? Steel Sabatoge perhaps? Volcanic Fallout is probably pretty good against them now that some versions are even cutting Ravagers and all their guys are small--wiping away a bunch of Nexuses in mid combat has got to be to be fun.
What is NORUG strong against naturally? Does it perform better against creature decks or control decks? What is the best way to shore up it's matchups in both?
Hmm. NO RUG is decent against most decks, it is one of those decks that doesn't really have any bad match up.
Something like Merfolk can be hard since it puts you under a lot of pressure and you have a hard time resolving natural order through countermagic and wastelands, tempo thresh style decks can be a problem for similar reasons.
Against these strategies I typically board out the Natural order package for stuff like removal and ussually thruns. Lavamancer owns merfolk hard if you have room for em but merfolk is pretty much dead atm.
Most combo match ups are very easy. RUG has ussually 3-4 REB in the board to back up a healthy amount of MD counters and cliques. Against Combo I will often side out the progenitus for a terastadon to either stone rain them or just present them with a 1 turn clock, and board in the REBS and surgical extractions, sometimes Ancient Grudges if you are up against something like Painter.
The Stone Blade match up is close but gets better for you after boarding with REBs and Grudges and Thruns unless they have black splash for Perish in which case you are in a bad spot.
Balls to the wall hyper aggressive aggro Burn, and Zoo are often problematic match ups. Sometimes I board in 1 extra basic land so I don't die to price of progress. Another strategy I have used against Burn is to Terastadon all my non basics to avoid dying to PoP. Against Zoo a lot of times you can combo off but won't be able to afford to attack to avoid not dying to the crackback. Threads and Submerge are the MVPs against zoo. If you can try to avoid auto losing to SB'ed chokes. Also play your dazes wisely against Zoo--I have definitely lost games mindlessly dazing a turn 1 Kird ape or something and then fallen to far behind to combo off fast enough. Against Zoo keep in mind you can natural order and sac your own progenitus just to untap him.
Meh most of this is based on my playing the deck for 3-4 months before MM got banned. I am presently tinkering with an updated version of the deck for GP indianopolis with snapcasters and oozes.
Cool primer. I am hoping to get to play this deck in a ptq if I get a chance to. I am a little worried about how this deck has a chance vs splinter twin. Those dispels must be brutal 1 mana gifts ungiven hard counter and those pestermites can stop even mighty emrakul from attacking. I kind of what to try out some classic Izzetron monsters in modern as well such as bogardan Hellkite or perhaps his cheaper nonflying brother inferno titan, and wildfire to see if they have any place in the format.
Blue splash would be best for Distant melody which is the closest we have to glimpse right now. Sadly blue does nothing to solve the volcanic fallout problem. The best idea I could come up with for stoping fallout is like run 4 spreading seas and target the red lands!
This deck is bad becaue of burrenton forge tender. Thats according to all the pros who mindlessly parrot one another in a borg-like hivemind babble. Except the decks that would play forgetender, kithkin, UW lark and such and such really don't exist.
I orginally had 2 Forge tenders main but now that 5cc is dead I don't think they are as necessary (to stop fall out).
My big problem with the deck is sometimes I don't know what to do when you can like primal command but you don't have enough mana guys to regal force. I was running 1 MD oversoul of dusk (cutting a warcaller) to bash decks like jund which can keep killing your elves but now the main aggro deck jund almost always runs demigod to just fly over and kill you.
The windbrisk heights always seem good and I could see running 3, as it gives the deck more gas/manipulation. I can't see going under 20 lands as it seems you just scoop if your turn 1 mana elf dies.
I like Titan but I also run baneslayer. I like being able to stablize the bleeding of life loss with baneslayer but sun titan is massive card advantage.
I have 3 Baneslayer 2 suntitans as my decks main win conditions besides jaces and elspeths and it seems right.
I don't like an excessive amount of countermagic as it is lackluster against vengevines and is not good to top deck if you are already in a bad position.
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Yeah Lilinana is in my opinion the single most important card in the UW match up. Not so much for the discard (they have more card advantage than you so it is often best to leave her on 3, rather than discarding threats) but for an out to Iona on black.
Gotta be aware though that a lot of them started running celestial purge in the board since Liliana is such a problem. I had one purged at the last ptq but I had a back up. Shouldn't be that much of a problem if you are running a lot of pinpoint discard but don't get blindsided by it.
Also gotta keep an eye on colonnade too. If you board out your terminates (a mistake) then you will have no way to stop them from bashing Liliana to death. Hardcast ulamog is also a problem obviously.
Terminate is more relevant than lightning bolt imo. Elish Norn must die.
I drew him twice despite him being a singleton, but I wish I had at least 2.
He is much better than ancient grudge against tron since he applies pressure unlike ancient grudge.
Turn 2, Hooligan on a map or signet is such a beating.
Downside is he sucks if you cascade into him and he is much worse than ancient grudge against affinity.
If you keep losing to Tron, you should consider Kird Ape. I know 99.99 percent of jund players will say he is bad and screws up the mana base, but turn 1 Kird Ape really puts Tron under a lot of pressure whereas your 2 drop threats, Bob and Goyf just eat up remands until the cows come home.
Also run more raging ravines. It boggles my mind that people are sucessful with 1 or 0 of this card. It is constantly an MVP it puts control in such a bad spot.
Favorite player ever: Me: Declare Attackers?
Control Player: Cryptic Command, Tap your guys and draw.
Me: Activate Raging Ravine, Bash!!
4 Kird Ape
4 Dark Confidant
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Kitchen Finks
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Inquistion of Kozilek
2 Terminate
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Lilana of the Veil
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Verdant Catacomb
2 Stomping Ground
3 Overgrown Tomb
1 Bloodcrypt
2 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Swamp
3 Treetop Village
3 Raging Ravine
1 Magma Spray
1 Surgical Extraction
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Tin Street Hooligan
1 Combust
1 Slay
1 Obstinate Baloth
1 Thrun the Last Troll
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Seal of Primordium
1 Damping Matrix
2 Molten Rain
2 Ancient Grudge
That is my aggressive jund list. I came in 3rd in a PTQ yesterday with it in new york.
As for affinity idk that deck beat me in the finals of the last modern tournament I played in, maybe try Pithing Needle to put the breaks on cranial plating? Steel Sabatoge perhaps? Volcanic Fallout is probably pretty good against them now that some versions are even cutting Ravagers and all their guys are small--wiping away a bunch of Nexuses in mid combat has got to be to be fun.
Hmm. NO RUG is decent against most decks, it is one of those decks that doesn't really have any bad match up.
Something like Merfolk can be hard since it puts you under a lot of pressure and you have a hard time resolving natural order through countermagic and wastelands, tempo thresh style decks can be a problem for similar reasons.
Against these strategies I typically board out the Natural order package for stuff like removal and ussually thruns. Lavamancer owns merfolk hard if you have room for em but merfolk is pretty much dead atm.
Most combo match ups are very easy. RUG has ussually 3-4 REB in the board to back up a healthy amount of MD counters and cliques. Against Combo I will often side out the progenitus for a terastadon to either stone rain them or just present them with a 1 turn clock, and board in the REBS and surgical extractions, sometimes Ancient Grudges if you are up against something like Painter.
The Stone Blade match up is close but gets better for you after boarding with REBs and Grudges and Thruns unless they have black splash for Perish in which case you are in a bad spot.
Balls to the wall hyper aggressive aggro Burn, and Zoo are often problematic match ups. Sometimes I board in 1 extra basic land so I don't die to price of progress. Another strategy I have used against Burn is to Terastadon all my non basics to avoid dying to PoP. Against Zoo a lot of times you can combo off but won't be able to afford to attack to avoid not dying to the crackback. Threads and Submerge are the MVPs against zoo. If you can try to avoid auto losing to SB'ed chokes. Also play your dazes wisely against Zoo--I have definitely lost games mindlessly dazing a turn 1 Kird ape or something and then fallen to far behind to combo off fast enough. Against Zoo keep in mind you can natural order and sac your own progenitus just to untap him.
Meh most of this is based on my playing the deck for 3-4 months before MM got banned. I am presently tinkering with an updated version of the deck for GP indianopolis with snapcasters and oozes.
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Ol School Elfball!
The best way to beat a gaddock teeg is by dropping his controller's life total to zero.
4 Treespeaker
4 Heritage Druid
4 Nettle Sentinel
2 Joraga War Caller
1 Burrenton Forgetender
2 Fauna Shaman
4 Elvish Visionary
4 Elvish Archdruid
3 Ranger of Eos
3 Regal Force
4 Sunpetal
4 Razorverge
2 Windbrisk
11 Forest
I orginally had 2 Forge tenders main but now that 5cc is dead I don't think they are as necessary (to stop fall out).
My big problem with the deck is sometimes I don't know what to do when you can like primal command but you don't have enough mana guys to regal force. I was running 1 MD oversoul of dusk (cutting a warcaller) to bash decks like jund which can keep killing your elves but now the main aggro deck jund almost always runs demigod to just fly over and kill you.
The windbrisk heights always seem good and I could see running 3, as it gives the deck more gas/manipulation. I can't see going under 20 lands as it seems you just scoop if your turn 1 mana elf dies.
I have 3 Baneslayer 2 suntitans as my decks main win conditions besides jaces and elspeths and it seems right.
I don't like an excessive amount of countermagic as it is lackluster against vengevines and is not good to top deck if you are already in a bad position.