It effectively runs 21 counters and can out control any other deck in the format. Remands, leaks, and shackles can come out for sprites, threads and jittes vs fast aggro decks. 23 spells in the deck can cantrip to keep gas in the engine. Are other colors really needed? My worst matchup in testing is bant aggro with geists.
I like the deck, but i think there are cards like thrun, vendillion clique EOT into something else, discard/tidehollow sculler/tarmogoyf, and specially punshing fires/volcanic falllout, that the deck will find very difficult/impossible to beat. Otherwise i like monoblue decks, but think that are weak to some popular cards.
What do you think about Serum Visions vs Sleight of hand in this deck? I like em both, i think visions is a better turn1-2-3 play, while hand is far better lategame/topdeck.
yeah it no longer has riptide laboratory or countertop. It its last extended incarnation it used chrome mox and a few artifact lands with a random assortment of other artifacts so that it could use thirst for knowledge to gain card advantage. This is also no longer a valid way to drum up card advantage. This leaves several slow engines which goes against the decks aggressive nature.
Dark confidant is the only card left that could remotely function in that way. Sorry for the long drawn out way of agreeing with you lol. I will also note that discard is generally kinda meh and it should be put in your sideboard as additional insurance against combo/control decks. Its almost dumb splashing black for essentially one card in your main deck but dark confidant is likely that important. I would say a steady dose of remand/repeal, path to exile, and other tempo oriented cards would be 100x better than any amount of discard you can run generally. Discard is bad against aggro and only slightly better than your tempo plan against combo/control since combo is so as hell in modern and control also doesn't have a real strong card advantage engine since thirst + mox + artifact lands was its primary card advantage engine. I would start with 3 thoughtseize in your sideboard and add TS and IoK as you see fit in testing.
I think snapcaster into some kind of draw engine (thirst, as you probably are playing some artifacts), is good. Im playing 4 shackles 1-2 swords (not sure about swords tho, they are great, but are bad against lots of decks, i dont really like sword against combo as i like shackles).
Thirst is pretty strong, at least you dig 3 cards deep (6 with snapcaster), giving not only CA (sometimes), but a card quality hard to match.
Also discard is horrible, id rather play negate/spellpierce against combo/control from the board than spash another colour (id rather splash red for firespout, of course your first three main colours should be bant ones). Bant charm has been really absurd, MVP.
PS: How many Snapcasters/spelltuters are you playing? Im currently playing 4 mages-2 sprites, not sure tho. (sometimes spelltutters are just insane, specially playing 4 vaults and 4 vendillions).
Honestly, I think Path and Timely Reinforcements in the board are just that much better than the black splash. I'll miss flashing back a Thoughtseize against combo, but NLB has pretty good combo match-ups anyways and I'd rather just have cards besides discard against other matchups. I also think if you want to board in a draw engine that Jace Beleren is just better because you don't have to jump through hoops to get the mana and can keep a high island count for Shackles.
As for Snapcaster vs Spellstutter, they really serve different purposes. Snapcaster is miles better in the late-game, but Spellstutter really helps keep on the pressure or keep the defense up by cheaply countering removal and giving you a body (it occasionally deals with dudes, but snapcaster is usally better at that too). I like a mix of each.
Edit: If you're running Snapcaster Mage, do you guys prefer Timely Reinforcements, Kitchen Finks or Rhox War Monk against the agressive decks?
I prefer timely, specially if running spancaster, still timely is good, now zoo decks are playing paths so finks and war monks are not THAT great (Still prety awesome).
Regardin the spellstuter/snapcaster split, how many of each one do you think are correct? Still playing venser?
Regarsd.
As for islands to run vedalken shackles probably 11-12. Remember that shock lands such as hallowed fountain count as islands. So fetches, U shocks, and a few islands should be enough.
Lol, i thought you could get away with less artifacts... is there some kind of eficient draw spell? I like thirst, even when pitching two random junk cards, but the artifact interaction is very good.
Hey! im quite "new" at MTG (i stared playing with scars of mirrodin), so i haven`t had the oportunity to play some older cards. The question is, how many artifacts is enough to play thirst of knowdledge, and how many islands (i count fetchlands as islands), is enough to play vedhaken shackles? ANy help will be apreciated. Regards!
I know its not as heavy as i dont play mistblind, but hey, its quite close. iI mean, you could play scrib ranger, or even pestermite, but 4 mutas 4 cliques (plus spelltuters ofc), seems like some faeries.
Id like to see lists, i mean, not sure about the numbers of snapcaster mages vs spelltuters. I think its one of the biggest issues in nl blue.
Really? SCM has saved my **** VERY often before, be it in the form of Counters or Paths.
I actually play a heavy faeries theme i think (4 cliques 4 mutavaults), but sprite its like very inconsistent. Its either too good, or quite weak. Snapcaster mage is more regular, its always good, but not so spectacular. I think mage is better right now because its so much better against aggro (which is the most prevalent archetipe now), while sprite its better against combo or control.
Heres a question for all you NLblue players
Whats your opinion in spellstuter sprite vs snapcaster mage? Spelltutter is sometimes the nuts (i do play 4 mutavaults and cliques), but sometimes its like a dead card. On the other hand, the mage gives you redundancy, which is key, but its quite weak against graveyard hate and doesn`t have evasion (which is pretty important as we play swords),
What do you think=
So long as Goyf remains in this format, there is no reason to not run him. Once you add in that pressure component, you also need to add in Spellstutter Sprite and Vendilion Clique. And so long as you have between 9-12 of these creatures, you really also need a sword or two to make them scary.
This makes U and G pretty standard fare for the deck. Turn 3 Goyf with Spell Snare/Spell Pierce/Path to Exile backup is a strong play, as is Turn 4 Goyf with all of those cards as backup in addition to Spellstutter/Leak/etc. The question to me has always been what is the 3rd color after U and G?
To me, this is a no-brainer. You definitely want Black as your base, because Black is what is going to give you the edge in so many matchups. Black gives you sweepers (Damnation) and spot removal (Doom Blade) just like white (Wrath/Path), but it also gives you one of the best discard spells in Magic's history (Thoughtseize) along with Inquisition. With a little innovation in the board, it also gives you Maelstrom Pulse and Putrefy, not to mention the most underrated black card in the format: Phyrexian Arena.
White just doesn't offer the same boosts that Black does. It has enchantment and artifact removal, yes, but that's what Green also does for us. Black gives you discard and card advantage spells, and that should automatically give it the nod over White.
-ktkenshinx-
I think discard is NOT necesary in nl blue. i have found discard been rather weak against lots of decks, and it dont protect us from topdecks so...
Rune snag has been fairly poor in my testings. Both dissipate (which takes care of punishing fire, an annoying card), and voidslime (which is very versatile, and a hard counter), have been decent for me, as 1 or 2 ofs.
Ive played something like this, and i can say that im finding snapcaster mages very unimpresive. I thought they would be the stones, but they are sometimes too clunky, you need to pay 4 to leak something with snapcaster, 6 to cryptic... the format is so fast, and the 2/1 body isnt that relevant (has no evasion). I like mage in some kind of agro deck (like the new domain zoo, which plays mage to flashback burn and paths).
What do you think about it?
I like the deck, but i think there are cards like thrun, vendillion clique EOT into something else, discard/tidehollow sculler/tarmogoyf, and specially punshing fires/volcanic falllout, that the deck will find very difficult/impossible to beat. Otherwise i like monoblue decks, but think that are weak to some popular cards.
I think snapcaster into some kind of draw engine (thirst, as you probably are playing some artifacts), is good. Im playing 4 shackles 1-2 swords (not sure about swords tho, they are great, but are bad against lots of decks, i dont really like sword against combo as i like shackles).
Thirst is pretty strong, at least you dig 3 cards deep (6 with snapcaster), giving not only CA (sometimes), but a card quality hard to match.
Also discard is horrible, id rather play negate/spellpierce against combo/control from the board than spash another colour (id rather splash red for firespout, of course your first three main colours should be bant ones). Bant charm has been really absurd, MVP.
PS: How many Snapcasters/spelltuters are you playing? Im currently playing 4 mages-2 sprites, not sure tho. (sometimes spelltutters are just insane, specially playing 4 vaults and 4 vendillions).
I prefer timely, specially if running spancaster, still timely is good, now zoo decks are playing paths so finks and war monks are not THAT great (Still prety awesome).
Regardin the spellstuter/snapcaster split, how many of each one do you think are correct? Still playing venser?
Regarsd.
Lol, i thought you could get away with less artifacts... is there some kind of eficient draw spell? I like thirst, even when pitching two random junk cards, but the artifact interaction is very good.
I know its not as heavy as i dont play mistblind, but hey, its quite close. iI mean, you could play scrib ranger, or even pestermite, but 4 mutas 4 cliques (plus spelltuters ofc), seems like some faeries.
Id like to see lists, i mean, not sure about the numbers of snapcaster mages vs spelltuters. I think its one of the biggest issues in nl blue.
I actually play a heavy faeries theme i think (4 cliques 4 mutavaults), but sprite its like very inconsistent. Its either too good, or quite weak. Snapcaster mage is more regular, its always good, but not so spectacular. I think mage is better right now because its so much better against aggro (which is the most prevalent archetipe now), while sprite its better against combo or control.
Whats your opinion in spellstuter sprite vs snapcaster mage? Spelltutter is sometimes the nuts (i do play 4 mutavaults and cliques), but sometimes its like a dead card. On the other hand, the mage gives you redundancy, which is key, but its quite weak against graveyard hate and doesn`t have evasion (which is pretty important as we play swords),
What do you think=
I think discard is NOT necesary in nl blue. i have found discard been rather weak against lots of decks, and it dont protect us from topdecks so...
Have you find discard necesary? In my testings, it wasnt even good.
What do you think about it?
So i guess you are not playing discard? Could you share your list? Regards!