You whipped my ass a couple of months ago in a 2-man with Merfolk. I was playing Jund. Ever since that I have seen the potential of Fish and have played them off and on to a good effect. They are goddamn fast and resilient.
Since Master of the Pearl Trident, I have liked the deck more. I notice you hang on to Cryptic whilst I have cut mine. Spreading Seas seems to get the job done for me anymore. I also like how you have 1 MD Echoing Truth. I have borrowed that from you. I am just wondering your opinion on why the Cryptic remains. I can see the 1-of being a blow out when it is successful, but I can almost never rely on more than 3 land, so why not more cheap countermagic? or Spellskites (as mentioned above, it is a thought I have had)?
Just wanted to know what you think, since you seem to have a pretty decent grip on how this deck works.
Also, LOL @ Llawan since she could be an okay tempo play against Geist of St Traft too. Seems ok. 4 land again tho...
Wondering why no one is running Cavern. I have 2. Cryptic was the only thing holding me back from running it at all. I know we have Vial, but it is not always in the opener and then we randomly get blown out by what would have been rendered a bad hand with Vial (ie lots of remands and leaks by delver)
Really? Complete misunderstanding of the interaction then, mea culpa and my apologies. Enlighten me.
Is it because he's being targeted by the ability on a permanent rather than a spell? Is that ability considered colorless? So he can be pacified/oblivion ringed/aether adepted, etc?
What about Progenitus, does everything therefore include those colorless ability triggers making him actually immune?
colored spells are not creatures
seems counterintuitive because creatures are technically spells on the stack, but sower (and shreikmaw fwiw) are EtB triggers that happen after the spell is resolved.
This is why sower can steal and shreikmaw can kill.
Phantasmal Image does happen on the stack. The trick here is in the wording.
The card says "You may have ~ enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield, etc etc etc"
Since it doesn't target, it is not being targeted by a colored spell.
Neither of the EtB triggers can kill Progenitus, since he can't be targeted. However, he can be Cloned and Wrathed since they don't target.
Seems like the concensus is that Cryptic Command is an awesome card in decks that can pack it, but due to being 4 CMC and 3/4 of those it puts a strain on the mana base egro relegating it to dedicated control and some tempo decks.
I was playing against Aggro Loam the other day with Mono U Fae.
My board was empty he had assault 5 lands a Raven's Crime in the GY.
I top deck Cryptic Command. He crimes me I bounce draw and gcet a spell pierce. He Crimes me again. He drops the Assault again.
I topdeck another Cryptic. He dredges for Life from the Loam. He taps 2 for it obviously unable to Crime me. I Cryptic counter bounce. We go to my turn and 1 draw a third. He dredges again. This time I let it resolve. He crimes I cryptic counter draw into a mana leak. he plays a land and casts Assault which I leak. I go on to win the game and the match because i am able to chain a couple time walks with cliques.
This situation depicts beautifully the versatility of cryptic. and I didn't even need to tap everything down to alpha strike. This is a christmas land sort of scenario, but the point remains: You get to decide how to use Cryptic and because it has options, it is a blow out when it happens.
Leak, Snare, and Remand are all necessary to help you to get to Cryptic.
Unfortunately Firespout is a conditional card. With cascade you are casting without paying its mana cost and because you don't meet either of the conditions the spell is cast with no effect.
I derped on the cage though. I'm running Surgical Extraction in my main and sideboard so Living End isn't really a problem for me.
You are right about Firespout.
It worked for me before on MTGO, so I assumed it was the ruling...
I like the cage there for the storm, pod, and living end match-ups as well. If your really worried about them an extra jund charm to wipe the board/take their grave should do just fine as well. As already stated Finks are worth their weight in gold when it comes to aggro but I also have 2 Obstinate Baloth in my SB to help recover some life.
cage does nothing against living end. Living End exiles the creatures before they enter the battlefield, which Cage does nothing against.
cascade exiles the cards before casting them so you are not bringing them in from your library...
Cage is a dead card against Living End.
We should be running Jund Charm or at the very worst Nihil Spellbomb to stop opposing GY shenanigans.
Firespout does, in fact, work off of cascade. You get to choose how it is cast, actually. With either G or R. Same with casting any spell with "hybrid" mana, you actually have a point when you cascade to determine the type of mana spent, thought most of the time it is arbitrary. Also, Firespout would resolve first, leaving you with a BBE too...
Not saying it is good, just saying that is incorrect...
They just want Modern to be a true alternative to Legacy.
And I mean they really want Modern to be a true alternative to Legacy. Like any real similarity between them and they immediately step in.
Stoneforge Mystic, though, was a good ban for the time. Because of the recent success of CawBlade and Stoneblade most of the people of the format had defaulted to Stoneforge decks and the format was miserably homogenized.
Now, though? Delver is a solid alternative to Stoneblade and RG Tron would still beat Stoneforge decks, so it wouldn't make much of a difference. However, having TWO formats partly defined by Stoneforge Mystic and Delver of Secrets is bad, so I don't see it coming back unfortunately.
I am not advocating for anything to be unbanned or banned (for now)...you know how I feel about bannings.
AND
Had they just used different criteria for their basis for banning, I think the list would be better received.
I am kind of difficult. I work 8-5 M-F and live on the West Coast. then I have the kids on the weekend because my wife works...my days are generally filled with last minute plans and child-driven tumult!! both Feathers and Lantern are on the East Coast, so there is a three-hour time zone difference as an initial challenge to begin with...
Feathers and I had a nice long talk on Skype yesterday and we will try to get something going very soon.
Meanwhile, we are going to get something going. I just hope me being on the West Coast with all my stuff doesn't interfere too much...
Thank you. That clears up some stuff for me, including why some people are so up in arms to begin with.
I thought Legacy was just a loose criteria, but they really looked at how the cards were performing in Legacy....that is kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater in my opinion.
I think they could have had this list better received had they used old extended and overextended as the baseline as opposed to Legacy. As I said earlier, Modern and Legacy are completely different. There are really busted cards allowed in Legacy that can't be reprinted or that they won't. Apples to Oranges comparison...
Hey Safeguard.
You whipped my ass a couple of months ago in a 2-man with Merfolk. I was playing Jund. Ever since that I have seen the potential of Fish and have played them off and on to a good effect. They are goddamn fast and resilient.
Since Master of the Pearl Trident, I have liked the deck more. I notice you hang on to Cryptic whilst I have cut mine. Spreading Seas seems to get the job done for me anymore. I also like how you have 1 MD Echoing Truth. I have borrowed that from you. I am just wondering your opinion on why the Cryptic remains. I can see the 1-of being a blow out when it is successful, but I can almost never rely on more than 3 land, so why not more cheap countermagic? or Spellskites (as mentioned above, it is a thought I have had)?
Just wanted to know what you think, since you seem to have a pretty decent grip on how this deck works.
Also, LOL @ Llawan since she could be an okay tempo play against Geist of St Traft too. Seems ok. 4 land again tho...
Wondering why no one is running Cavern. I have 2. Cryptic was the only thing holding me back from running it at all. I know we have Vial, but it is not always in the opener and then we randomly get blown out by what would have been rendered a bad hand with Vial (ie lots of remands and leaks by delver)
colored spells are not creatures
seems counterintuitive because creatures are technically spells on the stack, but sower (and shreikmaw fwiw) are EtB triggers that happen after the spell is resolved.
This is why sower can steal and shreikmaw can kill.
Phantasmal Image does happen on the stack. The trick here is in the wording.
The card says "You may have ~ enter the battlefield as a copy of any creature on the battlefield, etc etc etc"
Since it doesn't target, it is not being targeted by a colored spell.
Neither of the EtB triggers can kill Progenitus, since he can't be targeted. However, he can be Cloned and Wrathed since they don't target.
lol
I like the idea of playing a deck that can successfully stick elesh norn or something that you are comfortable with.
UW Angel is a solid choice too.
Seems like the concensus is that Cryptic Command is an awesome card in decks that can pack it, but due to being 4 CMC and 3/4 of those
/thread
My board was empty he had assault 5 lands a Raven's Crime in the GY.
I top deck Cryptic Command. He crimes me I bounce draw and gcet a spell pierce. He Crimes me again. He drops the Assault again.
I topdeck another Cryptic. He dredges for Life from the Loam. He taps 2 for it obviously unable to Crime me. I Cryptic counter bounce. We go to my turn and 1 draw a third. He dredges again. This time I let it resolve. He crimes I cryptic counter draw into a mana leak. he plays a land and casts Assault which I leak. I go on to win the game and the match because i am able to chain a couple time walks with cliques.
This situation depicts beautifully the versatility of cryptic. and I didn't even need to tap everything down to alpha strike. This is a christmas land sort of scenario, but the point remains: You get to decide how to use Cryptic and because it has options, it is a blow out when it happens.
Leak, Snare, and Remand are all necessary to help you to get to Cryptic.
You are right about Firespout.
It worked for me before on MTGO, so I assumed it was the ruling...
thanks for correcting my correction...
Still probably worse than Jund Charm...
cage does nothing against living end. Living End exiles the creatures before they enter the battlefield, which Cage does nothing against.
cascade exiles the cards before casting them so you are not bringing them in from your library...
Cage is a dead card against Living End.
We should be running Jund Charm or at the very worst Nihil Spellbomb to stop opposing GY shenanigans.
Firespout does, in fact, work off of cascade. You get to choose how it is cast, actually. With either G or R. Same with casting any spell with "hybrid" mana, you actually have a point when you cascade to determine the type of mana spent, thought most of the time it is arbitrary. Also, Firespout would resolve first, leaving you with a BBE too...
Not saying it is good, just saying that is incorrect...
I am at the coast, but I should be able to skype from my laptop.
That is his user name on twitch too, so you just have to search for him and follow.
twitch has a feature that allows the user to archive their recordings for a period of time, which this guy hasn't done...
Here is the link to the dude's channel if you are interested
LOOL
My boy running around like a jaybird toward the end was probably a bit much too...
I am fun when I converse in person, despite what my text would indicate sometimes....:rofl:
I SOUND like a dick, but I am actually kind of cool (just kind of).
I am not advocating for anything to be unbanned or banned (for now)...you know how I feel about bannings.
AND
Had they just used different criteria for their basis for banning, I think the list would be better received.
I made it yesterday, but the Lantern couldn't...
I am kind of difficult. I work 8-5 M-F and live on the West Coast. then I have the kids on the weekend because my wife works...my days are generally filled with last minute plans and child-driven tumult!! both Feathers and Lantern are on the East Coast, so there is a three-hour time zone difference as an initial challenge to begin with...
Feathers and I had a nice long talk on Skype yesterday and we will try to get something going very soon.
Meanwhile, we are going to get something going. I just hope me being on the West Coast with all my stuff doesn't interfere too much...
Very reasonable choice by the staff. You do provide a very objective voice. Good luck!
Thank you. That clears up some stuff for me, including why some people are so up in arms to begin with.
I thought Legacy was just a loose criteria, but they really looked at how the cards were performing in Legacy....that is kind of throwing the baby out with the bathwater in my opinion.
I think they could have had this list better received had they used old extended and overextended as the baseline as opposed to Legacy. As I said earlier, Modern and Legacy are completely different. There are really busted cards allowed in Legacy that can't be reprinted or that they won't. Apples to Oranges comparison...
Thank you for pointing to me to this article.