It has its spots though. I've seen some Death and Taxes lists that sideboard in 1-2 G.Q.'s as extra Wastelands against decks with no basics, primarily Deathblade and Delver. There was also a DnT list from this year's Bazaar of Moxen that ran the Arbiter + G.Q. package, but it was a very nontradritional list.
Here's the decklist for reference:
DEATH & TAXES
KRAUTMANN, WENZEL - BOM9 LEGACY MAIN EVENT TOP8 - PLACE 5/8
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Mangara of Corondor
3 Mother of Runes
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
4 Ghost Quarter
9 Plains
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Horizon Canopy
Sideboard
2 Rest in Peace
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Batterskull
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Veteran Armorer
2 stoneforge Mystic
1 Mother of Runes
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Wilt-leaf Liege
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't drink and drive; you might spill your beer.
My Decks, past, present, and future: RGVial GoblinsRG GNO ElvesG RRed Deck WinsR BGRPact SIBGR
This is definitely a casual deck but I'll help out. First things first: your manabase is atrocious. 24 of your cards require black, 12 require green, and 4 require white, and yet you have an even split of 6/6/6 lands. Green should be your main starting color because it's the best at color-fixing and accel, followed by black. At this point, you need a better reason to run white or else cut it outright. Screwing up your manabase for "Vigilance" doesn't really seem worth it to me.
All in all, your deck would funtion better as a monoblack control deck without the slivers and with the combo for the win.but I understand sometimes we just wanna do different things with certain cards even if it's not ideal.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't drink and drive; you might spill your beer.
My Decks, past, present, and future: RGVial GoblinsRG GNO ElvesG RRed Deck WinsR BGRPact SIBGR
From my experience, MUD seems to be more susceptible to bad mulligans than most other decks. Stingscourger saved me against MUD a few times. I like to Vial him in AFTER Forgemaster activations (not sure if that's the right move) once they've sacced a few manasources and brought in real threats such as Blightsteel and Steel Hellkite. Wurmcoils are a joke and can be stalled with War Marshals and overrun by Ringleaders and Commanders later.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't drink and drive; you might spill your beer.
My Decks, past, present, and future: RGVial GoblinsRG GNO ElvesG RRed Deck WinsR BGRPact SIBGR
I got outright violated by MUD, never having played it before. Game 1 he looks at his hand, gets a huge smile, says he's going to keep. I play Cavern, Lackey, go, not knowing what he's playing.
He drops City of Traitors -> Grim Monolith -> taps Grim for 3 -> plays Voltaic Key #1 (2 floating) -> untaps Grim with the key (1 floating) -> taps Grim again (4 floating) -> plays Voltaic Key #2 (3 floating) -> untaps Grim with key #2 (2 floating) -> taps Grim (5 floating) -> plays Lightning Greaves -> plays Kuldotha Forgemaster (0 floating) -> attaches Greaves to the Forgemaster -> activates Forgemaster, saccing itself and both keys, sneaks in Blightsteel Colossus -> attaches Lightning Greaves to the Colossus -> swings for 11 poison and the win. WTF.
Game 2, I swap four Vials for four Chalices, and 2 Gempalms for 2 Shattering Sprees. I get to go first, holding 2 Caverns, Arid Mesa, Lackey, Thalia, Chalice, and Shattering Spree. I play Cavern -> Lackey, go. He drops an Ancient Tomb, taps for 2, drops a Lightning Greaves, drops a Metalworker, attaches the greaves to the Metalworker, taps and shows 5 artifacts for 10 mana, drops another Metalworker, attaches the greaves to that, taps and shows 4 artifacts for 8 more mana (16 floating), then drops his remaining hand of 2 Steel Hellkites (4 floating), a Chalice set to 1 (2 floating) and another Chalice set to 0. Scoop.
Is MUD consistently that fast, or did I just have a really bad game? With even a half-decent hand, I don't see how I have any chance against it whatsoever.
No one in our group played Sneak and Show or anything that required the O-Rings, and MUD was just too damn fast for Shattering Spree, so it's hard to say if my last two SB choices were solid or not.
Was all that in one turn? If so, I don't understand how he had mana for Greaves+Foremaster or Greaves+Worker on the same turn.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't drink and drive; you might spill your beer.
My Decks, past, present, and future: RGVial GoblinsRG GNO ElvesG RRed Deck WinsR BGRPact SIBGR
Attn: Chui: If the Tarmos can be handled with Therapy, wouldn't Thrun be a house vs blue? He was mentioned a couple pages back but hasn't been spoken about much since. Gets past counters and removal. Just a suggestion. If only Thrun was a 5/5.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't drink and drive; you might spill your beer.
My Decks, past, present, and future: RGVial GoblinsRG GNO ElvesG RRed Deck WinsR BGRPact SIBGR
On the play: Discard, soft counters, or Chalice of the Void @ 0. If you've got Sol-lands or Moxes, Chalice @ 1, Thorn of Amethyst, Null Rod, or take your pick of a hate-bear.
On the draw: Mindbreak Trap. Of course this only works if they're going for a EtW win. If they have Belcher in hand, it's easy enough for them to lay down 2 artifacts per turn and Belch you later. Of course this also affords you time to set up your hate as well.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't drink and drive; you might spill your beer.
My Decks, past, present, and future: RGVial GoblinsRG GNO ElvesG RRed Deck WinsR BGRPact SIBGR
You decided to make it "more consistent" by using 3-ofs and no fetchlands? And I don't understand the reasoning behind not using the original dual lands.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't drink and drive; you might spill your beer.
My Decks, past, present, and future: RGVial GoblinsRG GNO ElvesG RRed Deck WinsR BGRPact SIBGR
I understand grinding against RUG and BUG but what do you do against combo decks such as Reanimator, SnT, OniTell and the like that pack playsets of Forces and Dazes AND a serious clock to boot? What's the gameplan preboard and postboard?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't drink and drive; you might spill your beer.
My Decks, past, present, and future: RGVial GoblinsRG GNO ElvesG RRed Deck WinsR BGRPact SIBGR
That was my initial reaction. Lol. Reminds me of the time I dusted off my gobs to play a game with a few friends. I forgot to sleeve up my Vials and the deck felt so damn slow! The explosiveness was just gone.
But yes, if anyone is gonna cut any cards for Punishing Fire, seems like replacing existing removal is more or less the way to go.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't drink and drive; you might spill your beer.
My Decks, past, present, and future: RGVial GoblinsRG GNO ElvesG RRed Deck WinsR BGRPact SIBGR
There's an ongoing discussion regarding Army Loyalist in the Goblin thread. It's pretty much a consensus the new Goblin will be a great addition vs any deck running Batterskull, the bane of all aggro decks. I can see the guy getting added to more creature-centric Sligh builds to combat said card, and less so in burn-centric ones. I myself prefer to do damage through the redzone so I can definitely see myself running Loyalist alongside Goblin Guide and Jackal Pup. It's just that being a 1/1 for R isn't really all that impressive in a deck that wants to deal damage as fast as possible. So yeah, if SFM+Batterskull is prevalent in your meta, throw him in if you really want to.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't drink and drive; you might spill your beer.
My Decks, past, present, and future: RGVial GoblinsRG GNO ElvesG RRed Deck WinsR BGRPact SIBGR
Cards I recommend just because I like em: Phyrexian Arena (Dark Ritual into Arena? Shut up and take my money!) Graveborn Muse (sac to Feeder or Therapy later) Abbysal Persecutor (sac to Feeder or Therapy later) Tombstalker (yes, 2-3 mana for a 5/5 flying demon is pretty good) Tomb of Urami (just because we have a minor demon theme going on) Death's Shadow (too much lifeloss for your tastes? not for this guy)
With those suggestions, the cards I like in your deck are:
Liliana
Go for the Throat
How do you guys feel about Mental Misstep affecting goblins in general? Should we be really concerned with it, since lackeys and vials will be a prime target for it. And if it does become a problem should we consider adding it to the 75? Any thoughts on this?
page 151
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Don't drink and drive; you might spill your beer.
My Decks, past, present, and future: RGVial GoblinsRG GNO ElvesG RRed Deck WinsR BGRPact SIBGR
Wouldn't Ratchet Bomb be a good answer to Affinity? Unlike Null Rod, it can still do something after they have emptied their hand. Kills Thopters, artifact lands and Moxes, all the things needed for an explosive hand. Pair it up with Pyrokinesis and you should be alright. Just watch out for Pithing Needle. Shattering Spree?
Edit: Ratchet Bomb destroys nonland permanents so artifact lands remain unharmed. Powder Keg would be more effective.
Here's the decklist for reference:
DEATH & TAXES
KRAUTMANN, WENZEL - BOM9 LEGACY MAIN EVENT TOP8 - PLACE 5/8
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Leonin Arbiter
2 Mangara of Corondor
3 Mother of Runes
4 Phyrexian Revoker
4 Spirit of the Labyrinth
2 Stoneforge Mystic
3 Swords to Plowshares
4 Aether Vial
4 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Umezawa's Jitte
4 Wasteland
4 Rishadan Port
3 Karakas
4 Ghost Quarter
9 Plains
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Horizon Canopy
Sideboard
2 Rest in Peace
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Batterskull
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Veteran Armorer
2 stoneforge Mystic
1 Mother of Runes
2 Ethersworn Canonist
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Wilt-leaf Liege
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
Act on Impulse
2 R
Sorcery
Exile the top three cards of your library. Until end of turn, you may play cards exiled this way.
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
Cards I'd remove:
Syphon, Sentinel, Crypt Slivers, Diabolic Tutor, and Codex (wtf?).
If your combo is the main plan, start out with control elements first to help get your combo online since it is a slow combo.
Board control:
Combo Tutors:
Brainspoil - Transmute FTW! Finds both your combo pieces as well as Shriekmaw should you decide to run him.
Slivers:
Muscle Sliver
Darkheart Sliver - Actually activates the combo once all the pieces are out.
Basal Sliver - Accel, although turn 4 accel is pretty terribly by legacy standards. lol.
Brood Sliver - Found with Brainspoil as well.
All in all, your deck would funtion better as a monoblack control deck without the slivers and with the combo for the win.but I understand sometimes we just wanna do different things with certain cards even if it's not ideal.
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
Was all that in one turn? If so, I don't understand how he had mana for Greaves+Foremaster or Greaves+Worker on the same turn.
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
I'm 99% sure you meant to say Sulfuric Vortex.
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
On the draw: Mindbreak Trap. Of course this only works if they're going for a EtW win. If they have Belcher in hand, it's easy enough for them to lay down 2 artifacts per turn and Belch you later. Of course this also affords you time to set up your hate as well.
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
You decided to make it "more consistent" by using 3-ofs and no fetchlands? And I don't understand the reasoning behind not using the original dual lands.
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
That was my initial reaction. Lol. Reminds me of the time I dusted off my gobs to play a game with a few friends. I forgot to sleeve up my Vials and the deck felt so damn slow! The explosiveness was just gone.
But yes, if anyone is gonna cut any cards for Punishing Fire, seems like replacing existing removal is more or less the way to go.
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
Cheap recurring beats:
Putrid Imp (discard those guys who won't stay dead!)
Carrion Feeder
Bloodghast
Gravecrawler
Bitterblossom
Cheap disruption:
Innocent Blood (awesome with your recurring creatures)
Shriekmaw (good to reanimate later)
Duress
Cabal Therapy (fits with your recurring guys)
Hymn to Tourach (mvp card)
Reanimation package if you insist:
Entomb (pricey, but off a Dark Ritual + Exhume = nuts!)
MORE Exhume!
Ancient Tomb (turn 2 Buried Alive)
Griselbrand (if you're gonna be reanimating a demon, he should be #1)
Cards I recommend just because I like em:
Phyrexian Arena (Dark Ritual into Arena? Shut up and take my money!)
Graveborn Muse (sac to Feeder or Therapy later)
Abbysal Persecutor (sac to Feeder or Therapy later)
Tombstalker (yes, 2-3 mana for a 5/5 flying demon is pretty good)
Tomb of Urami (just because we have a minor demon theme going on)
Death's Shadow (too much lifeloss for your tastes? not for this guy)
With those suggestions, the cards I like in your deck are:
Liliana
Go for the Throat
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
page 151
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR
Edit: Ratchet Bomb destroys nonland permanents so artifact lands remain unharmed. Powder Keg would be more effective.
My Decks, past, present, and future:
RGVial GoblinsRG
GNO ElvesG
RRed Deck WinsR
BGRPact SIBGR