Let's say I attack with two creatures - a Signal Pest (0/1) and a Memnite (1/1).
My opponent asks to go to declare blockers step - no rushing or anything. I reply back, "sure".
He blocks my Memnite with a (2/2).
We go to damage step, I tell him that we trade creatures (my Memnite for his 2/2), but he says that I didn't announce my battle cry trigger (I didn't).
How does this work at Comp REL?
Mind you, I didn't announce that I was attacking for 0 in the air and 2 with Memnite, or anything in a similar fashion that could be correlated with basically announcing my Battle Cry trigger.
I thought they changed this with the Exalted rule, but the judge that was called over, said that since I didn't put the Battle cry trigger on the stack by announcing it in some fashion, I'm going to lose my Memnite and my opponent keeps his creature.
Did they just change this for such triggers (exalted, battle cry) at regular REL - where they can't be missed - but at comp REL they still have to be announced?
Thanks for the help in advance
If I "chump block" (block a bigger creature, causing my blocking creature to die) with Archangel of Thune, does the Thune trigger go on the stack still -- causing my other creatures to all get a +1/+1 counter? If so, please explain to me why. I thought it would still need to be on the battlefield, post-combat, in order for the trigger to be put on the stack. I understand lifelink doesn't use the stack -- 'it just happens' and all.
Okay, so when Reveillark dies, can I respond to it's trigger, by sacrificing something on the battlefield, in order to have Reveillark's trigger target it once it's in the graveyard? Or, does the second Reveillark's death/leave trigger go on the stack, do I have to choose my targets?
Interesting, the guy on UB Faeries is someone I know: Alex Sittner. He owns Oasis Games in Salt Lake City. Awesome guy.
I'm really surprised that Kiki-Pod deck isn't running any copies of Phantasmal Image either, as well as only 1 Exarch. Ooze seems like it's required these days; hadn't seen it in Kiki-Pod until now. Also haven't seen Thragtusk or Avalanche Riders in the board before. The single Murderous Redcap in the main is curious as well.
Avalanche Riders is pretty common in Kiki-Pod actually (I've played Kiki Pod on and off for over the 14 months). Great against Tron/Control/Midrange. Sowing Salt isn't a creature, so it's not tutorable in this deck. Also, early acceleration into a Riders (whether played early or tutored), followed by Restoration Angel-ing it in response to the trigger, or Kiki-Jiki-ing it the next turn, can lock up a game against many decks it's good against. You can't do that with Sowing Salt. You generally don't care about taking all the copies of a land in play in most instances outside of the Tron matchup, either.
Thragtusk is less common in Kiki-Pod decks, because most of the time Sigarda is taking up its slot. Now that Jund isn't as popular, Thragtusk is becoming more popular. I remember seeing it in Kiki-Pod decks last PTQ season on occasion - sometimes even in multiples in the 75, based on meta considerations.
Deceiver isn't always a 2-of. Usually Pod decks with the full playset of Restos cut an Exarch because it's not good at attacking compared to Angel. Since Exarch isn't good at attacking, and presumably, Liu understood there'd be more Twin hate then in previous seasons (as Jund is less viable, so Twin is more popular), he played the 4th Angel over the 2nd Exarch to strengthen his backup plan of midrange beats vs. combo-ing off. The only downside to eliminating the 2nd Exarch is it changes the availability of certain Pod chains, really.
Death & Taxes doesn't have a good Pod matchup.
Yes, Mindcensor and Arbiter are hate cards against Chord/Pod. That doesn't translate to some matchup where the D&T deck is incredibly dominating.
Your hate cards are terrible 2/1s and terrible 2/2s. Pod just takes out all their Chords, most (if not all) of the Pods, plays better creatures than you, and brings in more removal. This is what happens, time and time again, with competent Pod players.
P.S. Smart players always crack their fetches ASAP against D&T to minimize damage by Aven/Arbiter, too. If they just hold them back, they get rolled by cards they should see from a mile away.
EDIT2: For the player who asked why did the Kiki Pod player not play a Phantasmal Image -- probably because it was largely used to kill Olivia/Geist/other Legends before the Legend rule change, he needed a slot for a 2nd Ooze & didn't know what to cut, and because he's already playing 4 copies of Restoration Angel, so he didn't necessarily need the Image as a redundant combo piece.
The following decks got better:
zoo
faeries
dredgevine
living end
storm
knight of the reliquary
the following decks got worse
jund
melira pod
bug control
Is this really that bad of a change?
pod becomes better. kiki pod faces 1 less card to hate off finks/archmage/redcap/etc. melira pod was a deck before DRS, it just has 1 less tool, but the cost of not playing DRS might be lower than the gain it gets from not having to face DRS, so kiki pod's finks/redcaps/archmages get better...
don't believe me, but multiple pros already tweeted this...
So I've cast and resolved Ixidron, but it has flipped my opponents' generals face-down, to make them 2/2s. What happens when someone uses removal to kill my opponents' generals? Are they forced to go into the graveyard, since they die as 2/2s with no characteristics?
Also, if a face-down card (from Ixidron) dies, if the card - when face up - has "when ~ goes to the graveyard,..." triggers, do those still trigger? Like, for example, does Reveillark still trigger when it dies as a face-down 2/2 with no abilities?
I understand most Ixidron rules, because I've loved that card for years, but I just picked up playing it again, and I forgot how some interactions work.
Well they certainly aren't part of any optimal mana bases, if that's what you're asking. I guess maybe if you really super need a shuffle sometimes but usually don't have fixing problems?
I'm not sure why you're asking. There's lots of subpar lands, in most cases there isn't a deck where it makes sense to have a bad land. Why would you want to find a spot for them?
Basically, I'm asking if Panoramas subpar/crappy or is there something I'm missing here (ie. should I be running them somewhere for some overlooked reason?!).
Are the Panorama lands ever worth playing? ...and in what instances? Say, for example, I am making a Bant deck. If I have Misty Rainforest, Evolving Wilds, Terramorphic Expanse, Flood Plains, along with Sun Titan, for example, would I ever need a Panorama? (I don't play off color fetchlands in Commander, even if they fetch one color that's in my deck, so Scalding Tarn is a no-go, for example. Once I have the money, I'll buy a Windswept Heath and Flooded Strand for the deck).
Aren't there just way more fetchlands worth playing that don't require mana investment?
I always want to include the Panoramas but I always feel there isn't enough room in Commander land bases for them. I'd rather play Krosan Verge in UGW or more lands that color fixed me (say, like one of the Theros temples or Buddy lands) than waste a slot on a Panorama.
If you're deck is really mana intensive, other lands and certain mana rocks would help you more so than a Panorama, even.
Have any of you kept your old sleeves, used them to resleeve cards, and then, when you went back to unsleeve those cards, you discovered all these spotty, sticky residue on the back of the cards? I keep finding random cards that are like that. First, I had reused some old, pink Dragon Shield sleeves and found the last few cards I kept in them had these spotted pattern on the back of them, made up of sticky residue?! Then I just found some recent cards from Dragon's Maze that I temporarily sleeved in some old, red regular Ultra Pros-- and they had that same spotted pattern. It's not random dirt or anything, because it would be random. It almost looks like a similar pattern in all the cases I've had. Also, the sleeves that I used for this are only a year or two old, tops. I had initially used both sets of sleeves, in these examples, with perfect fits, but the cards that come out with the patterned residue were stored in the used/old sleeves by themselves.
I think green (that is a full monoblack with Abrupt Decay in main and Golgari Charm in the sideboard) is the best versus mirror, UW variations (whether it's Esper with Detention Spheres or UWR playing those and Assemble the Legions) and may have a slightly worse matchup versus GW due to a lack of BBoV and Glare of Heresy out of the sideboard. But again, Decays destroys the Bow and the Hammer while Golgari Charm takes care of those and Assemble the Legions.
The problem with relying on Abrupt Decay as a main part of your removal suite maindeck, versus more highly flexible creature-removal spells that are often in its place in Mono-Black, is that your matchup versus Big-Idiots.dec is severely weakened. By that, I mean you cry yourself to sleep at night after you face a ton of green-based devotion decks and other decks that play huge 4 and 5 drop creatures. You cannot always Thoughtseize the one-big creature or the one-big Planeswalker they have in their hand on turns 1-3 or whatever, and use Jedi Mind Tricks to make sure they never draw well. Often times, they'll have enough ramp and draw enough planeswalkers and big threats that you'll have to use your Hero's Downfall to kill the planeswalkers, and you'll be stuck with Abrupt Decays against huge dudes, with this Black-splash green Devotion deck.
Yes you have 4 Hero's Downfall, but those 4 slots for Abrupt Decay, often replacing - Devour Flesh, Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, etc. - does weaken matchups where those cards are often found.
That's why Bg Devotion is more of a meta deck then a deck that's strong on it's own right. It's better in a field full of Control, Mono-black, and decks relying on enchantments to beat mono-black, but has weaker matchups than mono-black elsewhere. It's not completely terrible in those other matchups - don't get me wrong - but it is weaker.
You *can* hold it until turn 6 to protect it. But you don't have to. And if you don't, it still dodges the vast majority of removal in the format.
It dodges Doom Blade and Ultimate Price when you don't leave mana up for it (it dodges those anyway though). Otherwise, it doesn't necessarily dodge the "vast majority of removal". It still dies to Devour Flesh and Hero's Downfall. Even if you leave mana up for it, just like Desecration Demon, it dies to Supreme Verdict. If you don't leave mana up for it, it still dies to Detention Sphere, Dreadbore, etc. What removal spells is it dodging that Desecration Demon doesn't aside from Ultimate Price? I understand the concept of it's hexproof 1G ability, but I don't think that ability is that good.
I've been perfectly fine with my opponent wasting turns or portions of their turn on using that ability while I expand my board state...with any deck I've played when playing against Reaper.
Your opponent will have a 1 turn window to kill it, or you'll have regen up and it will be there for the rest of the game.
It's hexproof, not regen. So there's tons of non-targetable removal in the format that it dies to. Devour Flesh, Supreme Verdict, Celestial Flare....
Trying to argue that opposing decks 2 for 1ing themselves (which doesn't guarantee it dying, btw) is somehow a bad thing is almost laughable actually. Dumb argument.
I never argued that forcing your opponent to 2-for-1 themselves is a bad thing, I'm saying that decks with lots of removal spells -- the decks that WOULD 2-for-1 themselves as decks without a lot of removal spells will be unlikely to 2-for-1 themselves -- have card advantage engines that make up for the 2-for-1. They generally don't mind. It's a perfectly fine argument; However, they often won't 2-for-1 themselves, because cards like Supreme Verdict and Devour Flesh exist. Esper and Black-centric decks have many ways of dealing with it early on, too.
And left unchecked, it is a hell of a nuisance. Perhaps you haven't played against it enough, but in the mirror if it drops and you don't have the removal for it, it can and *will* give your opponent better cards than you. And you'll probably be taking 4 per turn since you aren't going to kill it in combat. And since the mirror tends to drag out for a long time, that advantage will usually be the difference.
I've played against it a lot. I tend to ignore it and go bigger then my opponent and kill them anyway. Or they give me a chance to easily kill it, and it did nothing. Four drops in this format need to aggresively effect the board. Gods, Demon, Polukranos, Planeswalkers, Whip of Erebos, etc effect the board more. 4/5 for 4 that requires additional investment to do something meaningful is less effective then what's available. Just compare how much this card sees play versus every other 4 drop in the format, and it's fairly obvious. I've heard an almost exactly same statement from multiple pros on streams, in articles, and in interviews about playtesting for standard. I had the exact same hesitation about the card during spoiler season, too.
I'm so confused as to how Reaper is a much harder card to kill than Desecration Demon.
Waiting until turn 6 to cast Reaper to leave up mana for it's hexproof ability is a losing battle. It'll often get Thoughtseize'd before then. Otherwise, if you play it early, it still dies to Devour Flesh and Hero's Downfall (and Dark Betrayal post-board). I'm not sure about others in this thread, but I've upgraded to the "I'm-going-to-acknowledge-mono-black's-existence" version of Mono-Black Devotion; Hence, I play 3 Devour Flesh, 4 Hero's Downfall, and 3 Ultimate Price main deck, with 1 Devour Flesh and 1 Dark Betrayal in my sideboard (on top of additional Doom Blades for other matchups). Reaper has never been a problem for mono-black, in my experience.
Now, if you're talking about Reaper being harder to kill than the Demon against other decks, I still am confused. The same removal works on it, and waiting until turn 6 is not great against many of the decks out there. Heck, even if you untap with it, control would be fine 2-for-1-ing themselves, if necessary. They play Divination, Sphinx's Revelation, and Jace AOT. They can CA that card disadvantage afterward.
Anyone test Ratchet Bomb out in the sideboard before? It seems to be the go-to card for mono-black's clearest weakness-- swarm aggro starts consisting of many 1-2 drop creatures. Without splashing green, it's the only sweeper available to mono-black.
Anyhow, do any of you have any advice for the mono-blue devotion matchup? What cards should I be looking to bring in games 2-3? Right now I play a 3/4/3 maindeck split between Devour Flesh, Hero's Downfall, and Ultimate Price -- with 1 Dark Betrayal, 2 Doom Blade, and 1 Devour Flesh in the side. Should I just be boarding in the 2 Doom Blade and 1 Devour Flesh? I feel like my playtesting results have been skewed because of my misunderstanding of the matchup. I kept both Whip of Erebos and all 4 Underworld Connections in against mono-blue, but they seem extremely slow; meanwhile, Devour Flesh seems terrible against mono-blue, but I need all the removal I can get. I don't mind drawing Devour Flesh in the first few turns of the game, but afterward, it seems just dead.
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My opponent asks to go to declare blockers step - no rushing or anything. I reply back, "sure".
He blocks my Memnite with a (2/2).
We go to damage step, I tell him that we trade creatures (my Memnite for his 2/2), but he says that I didn't announce my battle cry trigger (I didn't).
How does this work at Comp REL?
Mind you, I didn't announce that I was attacking for 0 in the air and 2 with Memnite, or anything in a similar fashion that could be correlated with basically announcing my Battle Cry trigger.
I thought they changed this with the Exalted rule, but the judge that was called over, said that since I didn't put the Battle cry trigger on the stack by announcing it in some fashion, I'm going to lose my Memnite and my opponent keeps his creature.
Did they just change this for such triggers (exalted, battle cry) at regular REL - where they can't be missed - but at comp REL they still have to be announced?
Thanks for the help in advance
I always forget this ruling.
Avalanche Riders is pretty common in Kiki-Pod actually (I've played Kiki Pod on and off for over the 14 months). Great against Tron/Control/Midrange. Sowing Salt isn't a creature, so it's not tutorable in this deck. Also, early acceleration into a Riders (whether played early or tutored), followed by Restoration Angel-ing it in response to the trigger, or Kiki-Jiki-ing it the next turn, can lock up a game against many decks it's good against. You can't do that with Sowing Salt. You generally don't care about taking all the copies of a land in play in most instances outside of the Tron matchup, either.
Thragtusk is less common in Kiki-Pod decks, because most of the time Sigarda is taking up its slot. Now that Jund isn't as popular, Thragtusk is becoming more popular. I remember seeing it in Kiki-Pod decks last PTQ season on occasion - sometimes even in multiples in the 75, based on meta considerations.
Deceiver isn't always a 2-of. Usually Pod decks with the full playset of Restos cut an Exarch because it's not good at attacking compared to Angel. Since Exarch isn't good at attacking, and presumably, Liu understood there'd be more Twin hate then in previous seasons (as Jund is less viable, so Twin is more popular), he played the 4th Angel over the 2nd Exarch to strengthen his backup plan of midrange beats vs. combo-ing off. The only downside to eliminating the 2nd Exarch is it changes the availability of certain Pod chains, really.
Yes, Mindcensor and Arbiter are hate cards against Chord/Pod. That doesn't translate to some matchup where the D&T deck is incredibly dominating.
Your hate cards are terrible 2/1s and terrible 2/2s. Pod just takes out all their Chords, most (if not all) of the Pods, plays better creatures than you, and brings in more removal. This is what happens, time and time again, with competent Pod players.
P.S. Smart players always crack their fetches ASAP against D&T to minimize damage by Aven/Arbiter, too. If they just hold them back, they get rolled by cards they should see from a mile away.
EDIT2: For the player who asked why did the Kiki Pod player not play a Phantasmal Image -- probably because it was largely used to kill Olivia/Geist/other Legends before the Legend rule change, he needed a slot for a 2nd Ooze & didn't know what to cut, and because he's already playing 4 copies of Restoration Angel, so he didn't necessarily need the Image as a redundant combo piece.
pod becomes better. kiki pod faces 1 less card to hate off finks/archmage/redcap/etc. melira pod was a deck before DRS, it just has 1 less tool, but the cost of not playing DRS might be lower than the gain it gets from not having to face DRS, so kiki pod's finks/redcaps/archmages get better...
don't believe me, but multiple pros already tweeted this...
Also, if a face-down card (from Ixidron) dies, if the card - when face up - has "when ~ goes to the graveyard,..." triggers, do those still trigger? Like, for example, does Reveillark still trigger when it dies as a face-down 2/2 with no abilities?
I understand most Ixidron rules, because I've loved that card for years, but I just picked up playing it again, and I forgot how some interactions work.
Basically, I'm asking if Panoramas subpar/crappy or is there something I'm missing here (ie. should I be running them somewhere for some overlooked reason?!).
Aren't there just way more fetchlands worth playing that don't require mana investment?
I always want to include the Panoramas but I always feel there isn't enough room in Commander land bases for them. I'd rather play Krosan Verge in UGW or more lands that color fixed me (say, like one of the Theros temples or Buddy lands) than waste a slot on a Panorama.
If you're deck is really mana intensive, other lands and certain mana rocks would help you more so than a Panorama, even.
The markings on the backs of these cards don't come off. It's weird...
What's the deal here?!
The problem with relying on Abrupt Decay as a main part of your removal suite maindeck, versus more highly flexible creature-removal spells that are often in its place in Mono-Black, is that your matchup versus Big-Idiots.dec is severely weakened. By that, I mean you cry yourself to sleep at night after you face a ton of green-based devotion decks and other decks that play huge 4 and 5 drop creatures. You cannot always Thoughtseize the one-big creature or the one-big Planeswalker they have in their hand on turns 1-3 or whatever, and use Jedi Mind Tricks to make sure they never draw well. Often times, they'll have enough ramp and draw enough planeswalkers and big threats that you'll have to use your Hero's Downfall to kill the planeswalkers, and you'll be stuck with Abrupt Decays against huge dudes, with this Black-splash green Devotion deck.
Yes you have 4 Hero's Downfall, but those 4 slots for Abrupt Decay, often replacing - Devour Flesh, Doom Blade, Ultimate Price, etc. - does weaken matchups where those cards are often found.
That's why Bg Devotion is more of a meta deck then a deck that's strong on it's own right. It's better in a field full of Control, Mono-black, and decks relying on enchantments to beat mono-black, but has weaker matchups than mono-black elsewhere. It's not completely terrible in those other matchups - don't get me wrong - but it is weaker.
It dodges Doom Blade and Ultimate Price when you don't leave mana up for it (it dodges those anyway though). Otherwise, it doesn't necessarily dodge the "vast majority of removal". It still dies to Devour Flesh and Hero's Downfall. Even if you leave mana up for it, just like Desecration Demon, it dies to Supreme Verdict. If you don't leave mana up for it, it still dies to Detention Sphere, Dreadbore, etc. What removal spells is it dodging that Desecration Demon doesn't aside from Ultimate Price? I understand the concept of it's hexproof 1G ability, but I don't think that ability is that good.
I've been perfectly fine with my opponent wasting turns or portions of their turn on using that ability while I expand my board state...with any deck I've played when playing against Reaper.
It's hexproof, not regen. So there's tons of non-targetable removal in the format that it dies to. Devour Flesh, Supreme Verdict, Celestial Flare....
I never argued that forcing your opponent to 2-for-1 themselves is a bad thing, I'm saying that decks with lots of removal spells -- the decks that WOULD 2-for-1 themselves as decks without a lot of removal spells will be unlikely to 2-for-1 themselves -- have card advantage engines that make up for the 2-for-1. They generally don't mind. It's a perfectly fine argument; However, they often won't 2-for-1 themselves, because cards like Supreme Verdict and Devour Flesh exist. Esper and Black-centric decks have many ways of dealing with it early on, too.
I've played against it a lot. I tend to ignore it and go bigger then my opponent and kill them anyway. Or they give me a chance to easily kill it, and it did nothing. Four drops in this format need to aggresively effect the board. Gods, Demon, Polukranos, Planeswalkers, Whip of Erebos, etc effect the board more. 4/5 for 4 that requires additional investment to do something meaningful is less effective then what's available. Just compare how much this card sees play versus every other 4 drop in the format, and it's fairly obvious. I've heard an almost exactly same statement from multiple pros on streams, in articles, and in interviews about playtesting for standard. I had the exact same hesitation about the card during spoiler season, too.
Waiting until turn 6 to cast Reaper to leave up mana for it's hexproof ability is a losing battle. It'll often get Thoughtseize'd before then. Otherwise, if you play it early, it still dies to Devour Flesh and Hero's Downfall (and Dark Betrayal post-board). I'm not sure about others in this thread, but I've upgraded to the "I'm-going-to-acknowledge-mono-black's-existence" version of Mono-Black Devotion; Hence, I play 3 Devour Flesh, 4 Hero's Downfall, and 3 Ultimate Price main deck, with 1 Devour Flesh and 1 Dark Betrayal in my sideboard (on top of additional Doom Blades for other matchups). Reaper has never been a problem for mono-black, in my experience.
Now, if you're talking about Reaper being harder to kill than the Demon against other decks, I still am confused. The same removal works on it, and waiting until turn 6 is not great against many of the decks out there. Heck, even if you untap with it, control would be fine 2-for-1-ing themselves, if necessary. They play Divination, Sphinx's Revelation, and Jace AOT. They can CA that card disadvantage afterward.
I feel like I'm missing something here.
Anyhow, do any of you have any advice for the mono-blue devotion matchup? What cards should I be looking to bring in games 2-3? Right now I play a 3/4/3 maindeck split between Devour Flesh, Hero's Downfall, and Ultimate Price -- with 1 Dark Betrayal, 2 Doom Blade, and 1 Devour Flesh in the side. Should I just be boarding in the 2 Doom Blade and 1 Devour Flesh? I feel like my playtesting results have been skewed because of my misunderstanding of the matchup. I kept both Whip of Erebos and all 4 Underworld Connections in against mono-blue, but they seem extremely slow; meanwhile, Devour Flesh seems terrible against mono-blue, but I need all the removal I can get. I don't mind drawing Devour Flesh in the first few turns of the game, but afterward, it seems just dead.