When they gave Black removal (Dismember) and SiB (Tezz Gambit) to all colors, then it was like why splash for Black? INN will really have to bring some major power to Black to want other colors to Splash for it again. I don't know if Discard will be enough reason especially since IoK and Duress will be gone too.
To the people saying use Dark Tuttie, Have you even tried using that card and flipped up a Grave Titan? Seriously that card can only be played in a low curving deck like Vampires, which makes it very limited.
Side Note:
Do anyone else feel that Dismember will be a $50+ uncommon in the future like FoW is? Black removal for all colors with a 1cc, should this card ever been printed?
I think when talking about what a color is best at you have to use the entire history of magic not just what is currently in T2.
When you focus on just what is currently in T2 it will vary as the sets pass by.
There have been years when White in T2 was just bad and when Red as a color in T2 is just bad.
Right now Black is not super amazing in T2 but its far from abysmal.
The problem with using the entire history of Magic to determine the pecking order of mechanics is the fact that some colors have since then lost stuff from their pie charts. An example would be Black losing ramp from it's pie chart and now Red having control of that.
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how is black #2 at removal? it has the most kill spells black is best with paying life as a source and recurring things from the graveyard
Black may have the most removal but that doesn't mean it has the best removal... big difference.
I can see discard being #1 for Black.
I don't believe Black is #1 for tutors. White, Blue, and Green get better tutors then Black does anymore. Stoneforge, Fauna Shaman, Green Sun Zenith, Trinket Mage, Treasure Mage are better than Diabolic Tutor.
Green is really good with the Graveyard...hello Vengevine. Vengevine trumps Bloodghast by alot.
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They have been really awful at designing green card draw so it seemed like black was supposed to be second best, but they've long claimed that green is supposed to be #2 at card drawing.
If only they could design decent green draw spells more than once every other block...
Ok, what exactly is Black #1 and #2 at then? I believe Black is #2 at Removal but is it #1 at anything?
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Spot land destruction
Milling
Unconditional direct damage
Straight counterspells
Discard
Trample
Haste
Deathtouch
Mana generation
Animating lands
Regeneration
Creature shroud / hexproof
Several non-evergreen mechanics, such as bloodthirst or proliferate
etc, etc, etc
The problem is, people enjoy yelling that the sky is falling, when that couldn't be further from the truth.
Regardless White is eating it's own plate of pie and eating off of the other color's plate of pie too. Does White really need to be the hoser of all colors instead of only Red/Black?
Maybe Black should finally be able to remove Artifact/Enchants? It hasn't been the top removal color for awhile and it's color wheel has been getting smaller since 93'.
And why must they keep printing overcosted rare/mythic jank for Black? Do they still think Black is a ramp color and has access to Dark Ritual in standard?
I mean look at these cards in M12 (Sutured Ghoul, Rune-Scared Demon, Sorin, Sorin's Vegeance, Grave Titan). Thats alot of high costed rare/mythic slots being taken up in one color in the same set, Grave Titan is the only one of the group thats playable in standard too.
It's obvious that I'm a Black Mage but it's tiring not having anything competitve to play other then vampires for the last two years. Can we at least get a playable Planeswalker? But yes I realize that Planeswalkers is not apart of Black's pie chart.
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I still can't believe people insist on even suggesting that this card is out of white's slice on the pie. Seriously, people, where were you when they printed Ethersworn Canonist, Silence, Orim's Chant, Abeyance, Linvala, Keeper of Silence? This is just giving the "can't play spells" ability another twist, and that is as white as abilities get. Deal with it.
The problem is EVERYTHING seems to be in White's pie chart except maybe ramp.
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Teferi was anything but overcosted, he sure found his role. But theres a very heavy color overlap here, and its not just a white ability. But white has always been getting the best of all worlds at extremely efficient mana costs. It has the most efficientweenies, it has the most efficient finishers, and the most efficient removal, and so on. Yes, they'll often tie in whites definite color pie, but only while stepping on the color pie of other cards- survival cache for example, does something that should be strictly blue (its divination), just with a white qualifer. It ends up with a lot of cases where you get cards that are XXXX color in white, justified by it having YYYY condition/drawback. And that keeps the color pie from being a rounded circle, instead a bit of a triangle with white and black poking out the sides. You can say things like, "Blue gets card draw", "Red gets burn", "Green gets big beaters", then white comes and says "White gets all that with equality clauses". (Note that black comes and says "black gets all that with drawbacks and a big load of jankiness"). But then sometimes they just hand white unconditional non-drawback cards that are ultra efficient. And by sometimes I mean over-and-over-and-over again.
Heck, white is almost creating itself a new color niche in terms of "Hate bears", "Best unconditional removal", "Most efficient creatures" that make green and black squirm. I still remember the days when black got loads of hand of deaths or whatever, and white was stuck trying to heal back the damage. It was certainly worse, but now one has to wonder what white's doing to WOTC behind closed doors to get this sort of lovin
I do agree that White seems to be able to do about anything now, even get card draw sometimes. Over the years White's color pie does seem to grow at the expense of Black's color pie getting smaller. White seems to be a control color about as much as Blue is anymore. If Innistad can't make Black playable outside of vampires, then it should be time for another color pie shift.
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i'm so against this being printed outside of a multi-color block. Oblivion Ring removal is way too good and makes black removal look silly. Black is all about removal. O ring is a huge mistake to reprint.
Well between O-ring and Dismember(Yes, I know it's a black card) you do have a point. White can take over with the best removal and sweeper again if DoJ gets reprinted too. In my eyes Dismember was a huge mistake to be printed, it really did weaken Black as a color. It's not like Black has been one of the best colors to play recently either.
I honestly think this reprint would not have disadvantaged Jace/Stoneforge decks in the least and wizards must have known/tested that. Jace/Stoneforge decks would've mained and sideboarded this card like a mother and would've simply been more powerful.
I agree with this statement.
U/W Caw-Blade would of been even more powerful if this card was in M11. What other Tier 1 or Tier 2 decks outside of U/W Control or U/W Caw Blade could of used this against Jace/Stoneforge and prevented the bannings?
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I'm not impressed. All this reprint does is make White the Universal answer to anything that hits the field. I mean it's not like Jace decks weren't playing with White already anyways and needed this to destroy the mirror's Jaces.
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Actually, forgive me... all 6 titans are not known to be in. 1 is known, 4 are speculatory. So really we only have 4 KNOWN mythics. and 7 Speculatory (highly likely). AT least by my count.
Six Titans? There are only five, one for each color. Purple was never made a color
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No primeval titans, instead some wurmcoil. i like it.
I like the deck but I'm wondering if Contagion Engine would work better in the Contagion Clasp spots. Maybe +2 Contagion Engine, +1 Cultivate, -3 Contagion Clasp. With all the mana the deck seems to produce, maybe this would be a better fit. The engine does kind of give it a one sided wrath, just an idea.
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In this deck I would run Tezzeret's Gambit over SiB. Think of all the things you could Proliferate with only have to spend 1 more mana then SiB cost.
I would also think of a replacement for Vat Mother since it doesn't have any form of evasion, maybe Whipsering Spector or Plague Stinger as ideas. They would be very deadly with a Lashwrithe in play.
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To the people saying use Dark Tuttie, Have you even tried using that card and flipped up a Grave Titan? Seriously that card can only be played in a low curving deck like Vampires, which makes it very limited.
Side Note:
Do anyone else feel that Dismember will be a $50+ uncommon in the future like FoW is? Black removal for all colors with a 1cc, should this card ever been printed?
The problem with using the entire history of Magic to determine the pecking order of mechanics is the fact that some colors have since then lost stuff from their pie charts. An example would be Black losing ramp from it's pie chart and now Red having control of that.
Black may have the most removal but that doesn't mean it has the best removal... big difference.
I can see discard being #1 for Black.
I don't believe Black is #1 for tutors. White, Blue, and Green get better tutors then Black does anymore. Stoneforge, Fauna Shaman, Green Sun Zenith, Trinket Mage, Treasure Mage are better than Diabolic Tutor.
Green is really good with the Graveyard...hello Vengevine. Vengevine trumps Bloodghast by alot.
Ok, what exactly is Black #1 and #2 at then? I believe Black is #2 at Removal but is it #1 at anything?
But does White really need to have hate towards all colors? Wizards is making White the splash color of choice as apart of it's pie chart.
Regardless White is eating it's own plate of pie and eating off of the other color's plate of pie too. Does White really need to be the hoser of all colors instead of only Red/Black?
Maybe Black should finally be able to remove Artifact/Enchants? It hasn't been the top removal color for awhile and it's color wheel has been getting smaller since 93'.
And why must they keep printing overcosted rare/mythic jank for Black? Do they still think Black is a ramp color and has access to Dark Ritual in standard?
I mean look at these cards in M12 (Sutured Ghoul, Rune-Scared Demon, Sorin, Sorin's Vegeance, Grave Titan). Thats alot of high costed rare/mythic slots being taken up in one color in the same set, Grave Titan is the only one of the group thats playable in standard too.
It's obvious that I'm a Black Mage but it's tiring not having anything competitve to play other then vampires for the last two years. Can we at least get a playable Planeswalker? But yes I realize that Planeswalkers is not apart of Black's pie chart.
The problem is EVERYTHING seems to be in White's pie chart except maybe ramp.
I do agree that White seems to be able to do about anything now, even get card draw sometimes. Over the years White's color pie does seem to grow at the expense of Black's color pie getting smaller. White seems to be a control color about as much as Blue is anymore. If Innistad can't make Black playable outside of vampires, then it should be time for another color pie shift.
Well between O-ring and Dismember(Yes, I know it's a black card) you do have a point. White can take over with the best removal and sweeper again if DoJ gets reprinted too. In my eyes Dismember was a huge mistake to be printed, it really did weaken Black as a color. It's not like Black has been one of the best colors to play recently either.
I agree with this statement.
U/W Caw-Blade would of been even more powerful if this card was in M11. What other Tier 1 or Tier 2 decks outside of U/W Control or U/W Caw Blade could of used this against Jace/Stoneforge and prevented the bannings?
Six Titans? There are only five, one for each color. Purple was never made a color
Isn't it actually 5 months away? Hasn't NPH only been out for 3 weeks now?
If there aren't any bannings that would mean Caw-Blade would rule for a total of 8 months, that seems like a long time to me.
I like the deck but I'm wondering if Contagion Engine would work better in the Contagion Clasp spots. Maybe +2 Contagion Engine, +1 Cultivate, -3 Contagion Clasp. With all the mana the deck seems to produce, maybe this would be a better fit. The engine does kind of give it a one sided wrath, just an idea.
In this deck I would run Tezzeret's Gambit over SiB. Think of all the things you could Proliferate with only have to spend 1 more mana then SiB cost.
I would also think of a replacement for Vat Mother since it doesn't have any form of evasion, maybe Whipsering Spector or Plague Stinger as ideas. They would be very deadly with a Lashwrithe in play.