for those that say goyf and bob in the same standard wasn't format warping or that bob wasn't even that good in standard. yes, he was. when he was with goyf it was so gravy. if you remember those days you would understand. the meta game would evolve and shift based around it yes, but if standard was tiago and bob, there would be a deck that played both of them, it would probably be powerful, and it would most likely be played. even a goyf reprint could be potentially dangerous in today's metagame. thought scour + goyf? faithless looting + goyf? grisly salvage + goyf? people can and will make it work when they have the tools available to them. will a reprint happen? eventually out of hope for the sake of adding accessibility to modern. how soon? no one really knows. everyone just wants it to be now. i wish people would just drop it. just wait and time will tell.
The new detain mechanic is absurb. The whole reason it's so powerful is they cant just crack back after. The problem is sticking in UW solely you become durdly. If you add a red splash it can improve so much. Lightning Mauler and Slayers Stronghold are key here. They let you detain something then give the guy haste so you can get in there right away. This is amazing. You also get Pillar of Flame which hurts zombies a ton. On top of that is Izzet Charm as it fills the roll of kill blockers or counter their removal. Wru Humans looks very synergistic. Cloudshift is an allstar in this deck. Need I remind you guys of a similar deck that was quite powerful:http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=82213
This idea has been done before to sucess. Where Momentary Blink is lost we have Snapcaster Mage to combo with Cloudshift and whatever else. The other huge thing red gives you access to Bonfire of the Damned.
Oh and dont forget Champion of the Parish will get huge from all the humans coming in and out of the battlefield.
It depends on the varience of thr standings at the second to last round. With greater variance it seems fair but if a situion like there are two x-0 and two x-1 then they all draw in to auto play first if the quarters 1v8 2v7 3v6 4v5. The remaining four at x-2 just draw in as well since they see that they'll auto be on the draw (for the most part) so they just draw in as well....
Get aggressive with Delver for turn 1 followed by Mayor or just be passive using the ponders and probes and counters and snags. Huntmaster is just so good once you land him. Once he hits you don't really ever have to cast anything on your turn to auto flip him. Just sit and counter the or snag their guys while Huntmaster wins. Nice to note that mayor pumps Delver and Snapcasters. Manabase seems better then spirit delver / esper delver as you're really a blue base splashing green and red (so the harbors and falls work really nicely for it while the copperlines with fix either splash early).
Seems terrible in Legacy dredge. Consider the other options:
Careful Study
Breakthrough
Is this better then either of those in the draw spot for dredge? Probably not. The card doesn't act as it's own discard outlet for the cards you dredge back (something the both of the other two do). The times you actually cast spells in dredge are the first few (unless it's post board which is very different so let's simply assume pre-board for now). The draw spells are used to accelerate the filling of the graveyard (something the draw discard dredge strategy is slow at on it's own). When they are cast, there are usually few cards in the yard.
Assuming turn 1 discard outlet (Putrid Imp or Tireless Tribe etc...)
turn 2 you dredge at maximum 6. Even if you pitch your hand to then cast this, you till do not hit 20 in the graveyard. I would much much rather be casting any of the other two aforementioned spells or playing and cracking a Cephalid Coliseum.
On turn 1 this does nothing effectively and as the turns go on it diminishes in value unless you have a discard outlet on board (which can be tough to retain). Not only that, but it also gets Mental Misstep'd (which is something Breakthrough or Cephalid Coliseum can avoid. Even if you are playing a Lion's Eye Diamond version of the deck and you Dread Return an Eternal Witness for it, you are just better off having gotten Cephalid Coliseum unless you played your land for turn already.
Will this card find a home? No idea. I do believe Legacy dredge (LED or LEDless) is not the place for it.
Anyone consider that you can play him in an aggressive RWU deck? Lots of Armageddon effects from the red and white (Armageddon, Ravages of War, Boom // Bust, possibly Ruination) along with counterspells and tutors from blue. Run disruptive critters like Magus of the Moon and Kataki, War's Wage and critters the tutor for them like Imperial Recruiter. Possibly Azorious Guildmage or even Fathom Seer (seems pretty good to bounce to of your own lands before destroying everyone else's). You even get Stoneforge Mystic. Seems pretty good to drop a guy that is a big fatty to help supplement the little guys on board then just blow up everyone's lands so you have less fear of getting wrath'd out. Not sure it's really going to make friends per say, but I find it entertaining... He essentially dictates where your hoard is probably attacking each turn as you decide who he has to attack before you actually declare attackers.
Overall, seems like a fine card. I feel like too many people are used to the format being 'hey let's sit and play draw go til someone plays some ridiculously expensive bomby card' or 'lets try to do something unfair by playing some ridiculously bomby card early by means of the acceleration available'
I like the idea of using Oros as the color combination is unique to him. Plus, I haven't seen too many people play an Oros deck, whereas I've seen plenty of Doran and Zur. Basically, if I go to an event and people are playing EDH (not just going to a local store to play it all the time), I'd like to be able to sit down to play a deck that I could always play and have fun with. I like playing with weeny creatures as my favorite creature of all time is Dark Confidant. I also really like Magus of the Moon (who doesn't want to play with a moon man?!). I really like Kataki as well :X (Idk why, but he just looks so cool).
Was wondering thoughts on an aggressive weeny based deck that basically just tries to keep resetting the board (or atleast people's lands) with cards like Armageddon and Ravages of War. Would have to be white for those two; probably need black as well for tutoring help. Basically, keep people from playing their big spell by playing haterator cards whilst playing effective beaters. Was thinking possibly using Doran for the general to gain access to cards like Gaddock Teeg, Tarmogyf, Dark Confidant, as well as some potential haters like Kataki War's Wage and Aven Mindcensor. Just looking for some opinions on how a weeny type deck like this plays out. Was also debating blue as the third color instead of green simply for the counter magic to help with sticking your Armageddon effect or red for more Armageddon type effects as well as Blood Moon or Magus of the Moon or Ajani Vengeant. The problem I see with those is finding an effective general. Red splash gives... Oros... yay.......... whilst I can't think of one for the blue splash that is particularly strong (especially with comparison to Doran). Going solely as black white doesn't seem nearly as strong, but Ghost Council of the Orzhova seems like a fun general as well as he is aggressive like Doran. There's also the option of simply just going 5 color, but then the mana base gets really expensive (who wants to sit around blowing up their Underground Sea?).
Lotus Cobra isn't really that useful as you have no reason to be trying to accelerate into anything. Most of the cards you're actually casting are fairly cheap (Birds, Cryptologist, Crab, Doppleganger). Lotus Cobra then effectively does noting to add to the deck as it isn't helping you to do something big (like accelerate into a Baneslayer Angel).
The primary win condition for the deck is Vengevine. To remove him means you're essentially playing another deck. Since you're milling yourself you have no control over said mills (obviously). So what happens when you mill a Grim Discovery is that it's a wasted card. Whereas something like Molten-Tail Masticore is a perfectly fine mill (Ooze can then use it's abilities, same with Fauna Shaman or Birds or Cryptologist or one of your toolbox targets). More over, more creatures are needed as fodder to the Masticore ability. It's much nicer to RFG something like a Hedron Crab that you'll never really need again to shoot something for 4.
Ooze becomes your secondary win condition to supplement your Vengevines as it is often used as Fauna Shamans 5-8. He doesn't simply win outright. He also performs wonderfully at controlling the board with Masticore in the yard (which Masticore then plays double duty of giving him some resiliency in the form of Regeneration).
Renegade Doppleganger is also a huge part of this deck. He does more then just shape-shift into Vengevine. He can be used as Fauna Shamans 9-12 if needed (a hasty version of the shaman you played for that turn). He also copies Ooze rather nicely so as to compliment his abilities. I know him, in conjunction with Birds of Paradise have stole games from people (used Shaman ability, from Ooze, to pitch Gigantomancer to the yard fetching a Birds, then played the Birds copying it with Doppleganger and swinging 7 in the air). The deck has a lot of interesting and complex synergies (especially having added a toolbox). The problem becomes figuring out which toolbox targets to run.
On paper it may look difficult to actually get the Vengevines out of the yard, but once you have 4 mana it becomes a matter of trying to maximize the efficiency of the spells in your hand. The biggest thing is trying to capitalize on Fauna Shaman. If they leave Fauna Shaman in play (or an Ooze for that matter), then the whole deck is essentially turned on. Being able to fetch one drops to get those Vengevines back out and pitching something that wouldn't normally be as useful. Since the deck is primarily creatures you should most always have something to pitch to the Fauna Shaman.
AEther Adept for Emrakul
Soliton to get multiple Shaman activations fr the turn
Sylvan Ranger to make sure you have correct mana
Gigantomancer to turn your dorks (Birds, Crabs, Cryptlogist) into actual threats
i was thinking maybe dredge-uh vine would be playable still? it looses merfolk looter and extrator demon. alchemist gets replaced by adept though.. so least there is that.
I understand that when shuffling it must be sufficient.
Simply pile shuffling is not considered sufficient. Usually some form of riffle or mash shuffle is necessary. (I myself usually pile shuffle then mash a few times and then pile then mash again, usually varying the number of piles in a 7 pile then 3 piles afterwards.)
My question comes with shuffling an opponents deck when presented.
The situation:
My opponent has shuffled to what they find sufficient.
Said opponent has present the deck for me to cut or shuffle etc..
My question: Am I allowed to pile shuffle my opponents deck as the only shuffling and then return it to them or must I include some for of riffle or mash shuffling as well?
The reason I do this is that I've noticed a lot of players mana-weaving their decks in my local play area. When they shuffle they merely sift the deck a few times (neither a mash nor riffle shuffle) (basically they move a clump to the top then a clump to the bottom or so forth, not sure how to describe it) (in one instance my opponent mana-weaved right in front oe my then shuffled as such), and then they present for cut. I then pile shuffle it in three piles and return it. Is this allowed of must I riffle or mash shuffle it afterward (regardless of my reasoning)? I generally always 3 pile shuffle their deck when presented regardless of previous knowledge of their shuffling procedures (some players ask me to perform a mash or riffle shuffle following and i gladly oblige, but do I have to?), is this legal?
My thoughts:
Considering Lights Camera Action is going to be the Mirrodin / New Phyrexia block is it possibly that they take Phyrexian Negator off of the reserved list and that he sees print in the future set? Only thing I could think of is it's either not him or they're taking him off the list.
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http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/deck.asp?deck_id=159384
http://www.deckcheck.de/deck.php?id=5524
http://www.starcitygames.com/php/news/print.php?Article=14699
for those that say goyf and bob in the same standard wasn't format warping or that bob wasn't even that good in standard. yes, he was. when he was with goyf it was so gravy. if you remember those days you would understand. the meta game would evolve and shift based around it yes, but if standard was tiago and bob, there would be a deck that played both of them, it would probably be powerful, and it would most likely be played. even a goyf reprint could be potentially dangerous in today's metagame. thought scour + goyf? faithless looting + goyf? grisly salvage + goyf? people can and will make it work when they have the tools available to them. will a reprint happen? eventually out of hope for the sake of adding accessibility to modern. how soon? no one really knows. everyone just wants it to be now. i wish people would just drop it. just wait and time will tell.
This idea has been done before to sucess. Where Momentary Blink is lost we have Snapcaster Mage to combo with Cloudshift and whatever else. The other huge thing red gives you access to Bonfire of the Damned.
Oh and dont forget Champion of the Parish will get huge from all the humans coming in and out of the battlefield.
5 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
4 Copperline Gorge
2 Evolving Wilds
4 Sulfur Falls
4 Hinterland Harbor
// Creatures
2 Grim Lavamancer
3 Mayor of Avabruck/Howlpack Alpha
4 Delver of Secrets/Insectile Aberration
4 Huntmaster of the Fells/Ravager of the Fells
2 Phantasmal Image
1 Daybreak Ranger/Nightfall Predator
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Ponder
1 Incinerate
1 Negate
2 Arc Trail
4 Vapor Snag
3 Mana Leak
4 Gitaxian Probe
Careful Study
Breakthrough
Is this better then either of those in the draw spot for dredge? Probably not. The card doesn't act as it's own discard outlet for the cards you dredge back (something the both of the other two do). The times you actually cast spells in dredge are the first few (unless it's post board which is very different so let's simply assume pre-board for now). The draw spells are used to accelerate the filling of the graveyard (something the draw discard dredge strategy is slow at on it's own). When they are cast, there are usually few cards in the yard.
Assuming turn 1 discard outlet (Putrid Imp or Tireless Tribe etc...)
turn 2 you dredge at maximum 6. Even if you pitch your hand to then cast this, you till do not hit 20 in the graveyard. I would much much rather be casting any of the other two aforementioned spells or playing and cracking a Cephalid Coliseum.
On turn 1 this does nothing effectively and as the turns go on it diminishes in value unless you have a discard outlet on board (which can be tough to retain). Not only that, but it also gets Mental Misstep'd (which is something Breakthrough or Cephalid Coliseum can avoid. Even if you are playing a Lion's Eye Diamond version of the deck and you Dread Return an Eternal Witness for it, you are just better off having gotten Cephalid Coliseum unless you played your land for turn already.
Will this card find a home? No idea. I do believe Legacy dredge (LED or LEDless) is not the place for it.
Overall, seems like a fine card. I feel like too many people are used to the format being 'hey let's sit and play draw go til someone plays some ridiculously expensive bomby card' or 'lets try to do something unfair by playing some ridiculously bomby card early by means of the acceleration available'
The primary win condition for the deck is Vengevine. To remove him means you're essentially playing another deck. Since you're milling yourself you have no control over said mills (obviously). So what happens when you mill a Grim Discovery is that it's a wasted card. Whereas something like Molten-Tail Masticore is a perfectly fine mill (Ooze can then use it's abilities, same with Fauna Shaman or Birds or Cryptologist or one of your toolbox targets). More over, more creatures are needed as fodder to the Masticore ability. It's much nicer to RFG something like a Hedron Crab that you'll never really need again to shoot something for 4.
Ooze becomes your secondary win condition to supplement your Vengevines as it is often used as Fauna Shamans 5-8. He doesn't simply win outright. He also performs wonderfully at controlling the board with Masticore in the yard (which Masticore then plays double duty of giving him some resiliency in the form of Regeneration).
Renegade Doppleganger is also a huge part of this deck. He does more then just shape-shift into Vengevine. He can be used as Fauna Shamans 9-12 if needed (a hasty version of the shaman you played for that turn). He also copies Ooze rather nicely so as to compliment his abilities. I know him, in conjunction with Birds of Paradise have stole games from people (used Shaman ability, from Ooze, to pitch Gigantomancer to the yard fetching a Birds, then played the Birds copying it with Doppleganger and swinging 7 in the air). The deck has a lot of interesting and complex synergies (especially having added a toolbox). The problem becomes figuring out which toolbox targets to run.
On paper it may look difficult to actually get the Vengevines out of the yard, but once you have 4 mana it becomes a matter of trying to maximize the efficiency of the spells in your hand. The biggest thing is trying to capitalize on Fauna Shaman. If they leave Fauna Shaman in play (or an Ooze for that matter), then the whole deck is essentially turned on. Being able to fetch one drops to get those Vengevines back out and pitching something that wouldn't normally be as useful. Since the deck is primarily creatures you should most always have something to pitch to the Fauna Shaman.
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Drowned Catacomb
1 Swamp
5 Forest
2 Island
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Misty Rainforest
// Creatures
4 Hedron Crab
4 Enclave Cryptologist
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Vengevine
4 Fauna Shaman
4 Renegade Doppelganger
4 Necrotic Ooze
1 AEther Adept
4 Molten-Tail Masticore
1 Soliton
1 Sylvan Ranger
1 Gigantomancer
A quick explanation of my toolbox:
AEther Adept for Emrakul
Soliton to get multiple Shaman activations fr the turn
Sylvan Ranger to make sure you have correct mana
Gigantomancer to turn your dorks (Birds, Crabs, Cryptlogist) into actual threats
link to thread about this incident or summary of said incident?
gossip interests me
Simply pile shuffling is not considered sufficient. Usually some form of riffle or mash shuffle is necessary. (I myself usually pile shuffle then mash a few times and then pile then mash again, usually varying the number of piles in a 7 pile then 3 piles afterwards.)
My question comes with shuffling an opponents deck when presented.
The situation:
My opponent has shuffled to what they find sufficient.
Said opponent has present the deck for me to cut or shuffle etc..
My question:
Am I allowed to pile shuffle my opponents deck as the only shuffling and then return it to them or must I include some for of riffle or mash shuffling as well?
The reason I do this is that I've noticed a lot of players mana-weaving their decks in my local play area. When they shuffle they merely sift the deck a few times (neither a mash nor riffle shuffle) (basically they move a clump to the top then a clump to the bottom or so forth, not sure how to describe it) (in one instance my opponent mana-weaved right in front oe my then shuffled as such), and then they present for cut. I then pile shuffle it in three piles and return it. Is this allowed of must I riffle or mash shuffle it afterward (regardless of my reasoning)? I generally always 3 pile shuffle their deck when presented regardless of previous knowledge of their shuffling procedures (some players ask me to perform a mash or riffle shuffle following and i gladly oblige, but do I have to?), is this legal?
Considering Lights Camera Action is going to be the Mirrodin / New Phyrexia block is it possibly that they take Phyrexian Negator off of the reserved list and that he sees print in the future set? Only thing I could think of is it's either not him or they're taking him off the list.