It's better than off-color moxen in a lot of decks.
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
I've been goldfishing this deck for the last 2 hours on tappedout... I've read all I could about it... I may or may not be becoming nuts.
It's a very good deck. There are a few things i'd like. The deck looks fairly cold to rule of law effects. The combo is slick, with a lot of redundancy, but without any protection, removal or whatnots, I have a feeling the deck is exposed.
I'm also unsure about the lack of fastbond.
Aside form that.. it's a blast to play.
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
Since the OP's list has not been updated for over a year, I wondered if there were any significant changes that could be made to the list. Aside form that, I also wondered about Fastbond. Wouldn't it make any sense? I would certainly figure out so.
Thanks!
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
I'd probably build mono green elves with only one or 2 craddles, and crop rotation instead. Money can be an issue, and you can win with a deck that is not exactly THE 75 that "pros" are playing.
You can add fetches, duals, deathrite shamans and more craddles afterwards
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
Back in 2008 LSV and some other pro which I can't seem to remember made finals of an extended pro tour playing the first version of an elf combo deck, and they called it "ELVES!", with the exclamation mark. It won by chord of calling into predator dragon. It could also play grapeshot, and I think it played umezawa's jitte in the side to win by aggro easier.
The standard version came soon after, and it was called elfball. It didn't kill with fireball, it killed with roar of the crowd.
Combo elves is the name the deck took in legacy... but it's seriously not much of a conceptual difference as a fancy of names.
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
Please tell me how I can improve, within the range of my possibilities
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
I think the deck concept is really creative and I wanted to play it. I don't have all that much modern experience and I didn't feel the inclusion of red was all that necessary (please tell me why I am wrong). This is the list I came up with:
The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
Chains of Mephistopheles is a very specific card. I usually take out Sylvan Library for it as they don't work well together. So in that regard you have to ask the question: 'Which of the two can I benefit more from?'
These are my recommended match ups to board it in:
- ANT; shutting down cantrips such as Gitaxian Probe, Ponder and Preordain stalls them in finding their combo pieces. In this matchup it's better than having a Sylvan Library in play as you want to be more pro-actively disrupt their hand.
These are match ups where it's not recommended at all:
- Reanimate; you feed their graveyard. It's not good unless you also have an Extirpate to remove whatever hits their graveyard.
- Tempo BUG; you feed their graveyard again. While you match their Tarmogoyf with your own, Tombstalker hits the board earlier than normal. A 5/5 Flying creature is a huge problem for us. You don't want to run this card unless you have a Nihil Spellbomb right next to it.
In the end it depends heavily on your meta whether you need this card or not. In any case as a one off it's not so much game breaking or making; it's more about flavor and making certain match ups easier.
I like the points you bring up. The thing is, aside from the Shardless Bug, I figured out there is no one of those decks that I wouldn't rather play a Pyrostatic Pillar against instead. Denying card advantage is decent, but I heard killing your opponent is good too.
Too often card choices from "pros" go uncontested and it's not always good. While Chain of Mephistopheles has a powerful effect, it's by no means a sure-fire blowout since it basically sit there, waiting to be answered. A lot of times have I seed my liliana tick down to discarted cantrips before I decided that the virtual card advantage was not all that synergic on it's own.
Anyway, I don't think I will convince the die hard fans of the card, but I've stopped using it in favor of Pyrostatic Pillar, an answer to roughly the same decks. that suits me best.
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
How does Chains of mephistopheles give you "insane card advantage" and "give you cards"?
A storm deck, facing Chains, is simply more likely to kill you with goblins than Tendrils. Big deal. For blue cantrips deck, you just don't need to side in a chain when you already rip them appart.
While it's theoretically good in both matchups, I advocate that it's in no way factually good.
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
I want to ask a dead serious question. Why do you guys board in chains of mephistopheles? What is it good against? I bought two, played them, NEVER sided them for a while. Started siding them all the time to see when they'd come up good. I believe they never did. I sold them with no regrets.
I can't think of anything that makes me want to have this in my board because everything it answers can also be answered by something else that is not a 2cc black permanent that has to be cast during your turn and that dosen't kill your opponent.
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
Guerilla Tactics is pretty good in that regard. However I thing obstinate baloth is better.
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
With the raise in popularity of deathrite shaman that hinders the past in flames plan, I believe epic expretiment is a necessary evil if you want to play storm.
You need something that allows you to win without a graveyard. I believe Epic Experiment is that card. Although it's not very good when you compare it to Mind's Desire (and not very good in a vacuum according to me) I believe it's a must in the actual modern environment.
I cut the desperate ravings from the usual 16 lands electromancer/ascension built to play 3 experiments and while I can't say it's my go to plan, it makes winning without the graveyard possible on a consistant basis when you manage to play it with X = 5+
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The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
The interesting thing about us legacy players is that we consider Force of Will, Dark Ritual, Blood Moon, Tarmogoyf and Swords to Plowshare to be fair.
I feel like Bloodbraid elf is terrible. Hymn does not serve your game plan as well as a targeted discard spell like IoK. There, I said it.
I also think that destructive flow is a good sideboard card, and that neither punishing fire nor jitte are necessary.
...now throw me stones for heresy.
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It's a very good deck. There are a few things i'd like. The deck looks fairly cold to rule of law effects. The combo is slick, with a lot of redundancy, but without any protection, removal or whatnots, I have a feeling the deck is exposed.
I'm also unsure about the lack of fastbond.
Aside form that.. it's a blast to play.
Thanks!
You can add fetches, duals, deathrite shamans and more craddles afterwards
The standard version came soon after, and it was called elfball. It didn't kill with fireball, it killed with roar of the crowd.
Combo elves is the name the deck took in legacy... but it's seriously not much of a conceptual difference as a fancy of names.
I'm considering this list:
4 elvish visionary
4 deathrite shaman
4 quirion ranger
4 nettle sentinel
4 heritage druid
1 fyndhorn elves
1 birchlore ranger
2 craterhoof behemoth
4 glimpse of nature
3 natural order
4 green sun zenith
2 misty rainforest
2 verdant catacomb
3 wooded foothills
3 windswept Heath
2 forest
2 bayou
3 gaea's craddle
2 dryad arbor
1 natural order
1 progenitus
2 pithing needle
1 ruric-thar, the unbowed
3 abrupt decay
3 cabal's therapy
2 toughtseize
Please tell me how I can improve, within the range of my possibilities
3 Trinket Mage
3 Deathrite Shaman
Planeswalker (1)
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Instant (7)
4 Dispatch
3 Thirst for knowledge
Sorceries (8)
4 Thoughtseize
4 Ancient Stirrings
Artifacts (20)
3 Mox Opal
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sunbeam Spellbomb
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Lantern of Insight
1 Ghoulcaller Bell
4 Codex Shredder
2 Academy Ruins
4 Glimmervoid
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Godless Shrine
1 Temple garden
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Watery Grave
1 Mikokoro, Center of the sea
I like the points you bring up. The thing is, aside from the Shardless Bug, I figured out there is no one of those decks that I wouldn't rather play a Pyrostatic Pillar against instead. Denying card advantage is decent, but I heard killing your opponent is good too.
Too often card choices from "pros" go uncontested and it's not always good. While Chain of Mephistopheles has a powerful effect, it's by no means a sure-fire blowout since it basically sit there, waiting to be answered. A lot of times have I seed my liliana tick down to discarted cantrips before I decided that the virtual card advantage was not all that synergic on it's own.
Anyway, I don't think I will convince the die hard fans of the card, but I've stopped using it in favor of Pyrostatic Pillar, an answer to roughly the same decks. that suits me best.
A storm deck, facing Chains, is simply more likely to kill you with goblins than Tendrils. Big deal. For blue cantrips deck, you just don't need to side in a chain when you already rip them appart.
While it's theoretically good in both matchups, I advocate that it's in no way factually good.
I can't think of anything that makes me want to have this in my board because everything it answers can also be answered by something else that is not a 2cc black permanent that has to be cast during your turn and that dosen't kill your opponent.
You need something that allows you to win without a graveyard. I believe Epic Experiment is that card. Although it's not very good when you compare it to Mind's Desire (and not very good in a vacuum according to me) I believe it's a must in the actual modern environment.
I cut the desperate ravings from the usual 16 lands electromancer/ascension built to play 3 experiments and while I can't say it's my go to plan, it makes winning without the graveyard possible on a consistant basis when you manage to play it with X = 5+
http://www.thecouncil.es/tcdecks/busqueda.php?nombre=Sebastian%20Hausmann
How do you guys feel about the card? His build?
I also think that destructive flow is a good sideboard card, and that neither punishing fire nor jitte are necessary.
...now throw me stones for heresy.