Against D&T see my previous Post. Lands is difficult, no good matchup for us. Small Pox deserves to be countered (Pierce / Snare). For the other lands perhaps Pithing Needle? Postboard LftL is essential. Cards like Sulfuric Vortex or Surgical Extraction may do some work for you, too, next to artifact / enchantment destruction.
I already use Rough//Tumble, Sulfur and I have Fire//Ice main deck -- been alternating between that and forked bolt but so far liking the fire//ice due to instant speed and another thing I can pitch to FoW.
Still, if they get a few wastelands/ports/thalia I'm in trouble no matter what. Isn't a great situation to be in.
I guess good to know about Jund depths. Thankfully it's not common but I have a feeling it might start to gain some popularity with it's recent success.
My problem isn't TNN decks, my problem is decks that destroy my already limited mana. Both death and taxes and jund depths are absolutely horrible match ups. The only times I win those games is if they only draw one wasteland /port/pox, etc, anything else is just bad news. Jund depths especially, god I didn't realize how much I hate small pox. Awful... On the play, I went first turn delver, go. He plays fetch into Bayou, plays a Mox diamond and casts small pox. To make things worse I had two brainstorms and kept a one lander, it was brutal... I drew a land after my next turn, but the damage was done. I don't know what to do to counter these two decks. Dnt I bring in grudges for their vials and equipment but against depths I feel like I have a very uphill battle. Advice or thoughts?
i never brought in rough // tumble and i never used dismember. i don't own flusterstorm or submerge so i hope someone can chime in and tell me how good they are
Sideboarding is so easy for any game where you won the previous game, take out all Daze.
everytime a TNN hit the battlefield, i lost, luckily i only played two UWR decks
I can't comment on Flusterstorm as I'm not running it but I LOVE Submerge - so good. You can even be a little trickzie by bouncing a green creature in response to them activating the fetchland, basically removing it from play permanently.
I also find Rough // Tumble to be a life saver against any type of weenie deck. Lots of Elves in my area though - so it might be different than the SCG scene.
Congrats on your finish btw - seems you did excellent.
I definitely see why you're going to have some problems with Mono black after Born of the Gods, given a lot of your creature base is 2/2.
How do you find the matchup when you board in Boros Reckoner? I always found that helped when I was playing anything red, but I'm currently running Devotion rather than the traditional RDW.
Let's see what the rest of the spoilers say, hopefully there's some protection against it but it's possible weenie decks might need to adapt in order to handle decks like Mono B.
Normally, I am able to kill a mono-black deck on turn 4. But if I don't, and if they land a Desecration Demon, then that is when things get painfully frustrating.
Usually by turn 4 they should be down a lot of life. If they use their resources to play a Demon, throw down a creature, sac it to tap it down and swing with everything. Hopefully it's enough to kill them outright. The REAL problem card vs mono black is Gray Merchant. That guy is gg against RDW unfortunately.
Overextending is how I am currently able to kill a mono-black deck by turn 4. When this card gets added to the mono-black arsenal, I won't be able to finish the game on turn 4, which probably means I have to prepare for a longer game. My deck in its current form does not do as well in longer games.
It might help if you post your decklist, as not sure what to suggest without knowing what you play
I'm certain the game will die eventually, but I doubt that'll happen in 10 years. Or even 20. But in 30 or 40 years? I'm not so certain. I'm pretty sure it'll be gone in 100 years.
Probably right... better get ready to start selling all my legacy stuff in about 40-50 years from now lol
I've been playing since about 95' magic is as big now as it ever was (by a large margin). I'd say it's very far from being not played and will most definitely be still played in 10 years from now (barring an apocalypse and/or zombie take over)
I was watching that and wondered, is it normal to get a game loss with a mistake like that? I've played in a few GPs and there's been accidental mistakes that we've had to call a judge on and neither resulted in a game loss.
Really terrible punt by the U/W player. He had a blue mana open. All he had to do was blink Aetherling and he wins. Really confusing mistake.
I couldn't understand that either... even if he made the mistake and pumped it up when he attacked, he could have just blinked it and forced Kenney to have a Chained to the Rocks next turn to get rid of it.
Didn't understand that at all... I thought for sure he had that game locked up.
Small tournament report from a couple nights ago. 14 players.
Went 3-0-1
Round 1: Punishing Jund 2-0. He never had a stable mana base in either games, stifle/wasteland kept him back. Bolted the only shaman he landed.
Round 2: Maverick 2-0. Game one I won by chumping out goyfs to his mega knights while 2 Delvers flew over for the win. Game 2 he mulled to 5; wastelanded both mana sources.
Round 3: U/R Delver 2-1. Game one completely crushed his sternum, had 3 active delvers bombing him. Game 2 I mulled to 5 keeping a no lander with ponder/goyf/brainstorm/delver/goose. Drew a land and was 1 turn away from killing him with a goyf, but catching 3 bolts to the face on consecutive turns killed me, along with a active grim. Game 3 turns into a long game that leaves us both with no hands. I top deck 2 nimble mongooses in a row and ride them for the win.
Round 4: Elves. Draw 1st place
Very happy with the way the deck was running. Spell Snare turned into an all star against mav and U/R delver. Both players walked right into them, it made young pyromancer and thalia worthless. In both rounds neither hit the board.
I've been playing with 2 copies of Spell Snare lately too and really like it. Can't believe I dismissed it originally when I was building it, much more useful than Gitaxian Probe IMO.
Are you guys now running the 2/2/2 Pierce/Snare/Forked Bolt package right now? That's what I'm trying currently and its' working nicely but there's times I want a 3rd spell pierce and simply just don't have room to fit it in.
Also, is there a reason why people aren't dividing up their fetches to include Woodland Foothills? Just seems to make sense, in the off chance someone uses a Pithing Needle.
Thanks for the replies guys. I'll stop hesitating so much about playing Delver 1st turn against non combo decks - I just find he gets zapped so quickly when he hits the field, but I guess that's baiting their removal spell as well. Following it up with a T2 Tarmogoyf is pretty sweet in it's own right - but I always wish I could spell pierce their removal spell rather than watch my Delver get binned to the GY.
I guess - I have to learn to play more aggressively, I think, as that's generally the problem. I want to be defensive but I really shouldn't be as most things don't hurt me in the first turn or two, especially on the play. Combo decks are also pretty rampant here - Elves and ANT especially - so it's trying to find a good balance on how to play and what to do in those situations. Combo seriously sucks pre-sideboarding, though there's games I can keep them off their land count enough to win but it's tough racing or even really disrupting them in general.
Either way, I absolutely love this deck. I've read a lot of this thread over the past few weeks, a lot of great feedback and information from everyone. <3 Really good read, it's almost like 136 pages isn't enough haha
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I haven't played this deck a lot (very new to it), so was curious why a second wasn't added. It's probably obvious to everyone besides me
Did everyone think it was UU and not WW?
I already use Rough//Tumble, Sulfur and I have Fire//Ice main deck -- been alternating between that and forked bolt but so far liking the fire//ice due to instant speed and another thing I can pitch to FoW.
Still, if they get a few wastelands/ports/thalia I'm in trouble no matter what. Isn't a great situation to be in.
I guess good to know about Jund depths. Thankfully it's not common but I have a feeling it might start to gain some popularity with it's recent success.
I can't comment on Flusterstorm as I'm not running it but I LOVE Submerge - so good. You can even be a little trickzie by bouncing a green creature in response to them activating the fetchland, basically removing it from play permanently.
I also find Rough // Tumble to be a life saver against any type of weenie deck. Lots of Elves in my area though - so it might be different than the SCG scene.
Congrats on your finish btw - seems you did excellent.
I definitely see why you're going to have some problems with Mono black after Born of the Gods, given a lot of your creature base is 2/2.
How do you find the matchup when you board in Boros Reckoner? I always found that helped when I was playing anything red, but I'm currently running Devotion rather than the traditional RDW.
Let's see what the rest of the spoilers say, hopefully there's some protection against it but it's possible weenie decks might need to adapt in order to handle decks like Mono B.
Usually by turn 4 they should be down a lot of life. If they use their resources to play a Demon, throw down a creature, sac it to tap it down and swing with everything. Hopefully it's enough to kill them outright. The REAL problem card vs mono black is Gray Merchant. That guy is gg against RDW unfortunately.
It might help if you post your decklist, as not sure what to suggest without knowing what you play
Probably right... better get ready to start selling all my legacy stuff in about 40-50 years from now
The other would be a foil Elesh Norn that my gf gave me as a present, which I'd never part with.
I couldn't understand that either... even if he made the mistake and pumped it up when he attacked, he could have just blinked it and forced Kenney to have a Chained to the Rocks next turn to get rid of it.
Didn't understand that at all... I thought for sure he had that game locked up.
I'd like to see this as well. couldn't find it on SCG's site. Where did he place and what was he piloting?
I've been playing with 2 copies of Spell Snare lately too and really like it. Can't believe I dismissed it originally when I was building it, much more useful than Gitaxian Probe IMO.
Are you guys now running the 2/2/2 Pierce/Snare/Forked Bolt package right now? That's what I'm trying currently and its' working nicely but there's times I want a 3rd spell pierce and simply just don't have room to fit it in.
Also, is there a reason why people aren't dividing up their fetches to include Woodland Foothills? Just seems to make sense, in the off chance someone uses a Pithing Needle.
Thoughts?
I guess - I have to learn to play more aggressively, I think, as that's generally the problem. I want to be defensive but I really shouldn't be as most things don't hurt me in the first turn or two, especially on the play. Combo decks are also pretty rampant here - Elves and ANT especially - so it's trying to find a good balance on how to play and what to do in those situations. Combo seriously sucks pre-sideboarding, though there's games I can keep them off their land count enough to win but it's tough racing or even really disrupting them in general.
Either way, I absolutely love this deck. I've read a lot of this thread over the past few weeks, a lot of great feedback and information from everyone. <3 Really good read, it's almost like 136 pages isn't enough haha