I'm thinking that instead of Rift Bolt Brimstone Volley should be considered. With plenty of creatures that die EoT Brimstone is basicly a Lava Axe for 3 mana.
Rift Bolt is only 1 mana. At least 99% of the time it's just suspended for a turn. That's what makes it playable. Nobody would be paying 3 mana for that. It's just another Lightning Bolt, which is the most efficient burn spell in the deck. Brimstone isn't on that level.
This is the wrong way to look at it. Blightning comes down at a key time when your opponent thinks they might be able to stabilize against a burn deck. If you play it against Zoo or Affinity, you are typically putting them into top deck mode on turn 3. Its also good vs decks like Melira who want to win off of attrition. Its your deck and your call, but I would take it over Flames of the Blood Hand 90% of the time.
Your game is already great versus control, and Zoo and Affinity are typically in topdeck mode (or might have 1 or 2 cards in hand) by turn 4 anyway. If you're on the draw, Blightning is useless against them, and if you're on the play, it doesn't do that much.
I would rather get that extra point of damage at a critical time, and just not worry about the extra Tarmogoyf that they have in their hand when they're at 7 life and I'm at 17. The 'goyf (or whatever it may be) isn't a big deal, and I can just burn them out before the beats kill me.
Control has yet to put up even the meekest defense against this deck. I did however run into a Jund deck that was giving me a little bit of trouble yesterday. It came down to me having to topdeck a 3 damage spell or die next turn. Though of course, the Lightning Bolt off the top was for the win. Punishing Grove is better than I expected it to be against me. I couldn't stick a single creature the whole game.
I like this build...why no Blightning? I would think its pretty disruptive as your hand stays full while you can discard 2 from theirs.
Blightning is just too slow for Burn. Why should I care about their hand if I could just be killing them faster instead? Flames of the Blood Hand is already pushing the limit for the mana cost, and I'm considering going to 3 instead and adding another cheap burn. Blightning does less damage than that, so I wouldn't really consider it.
I suppose it might be sideboard-able against heavy control or slow combo, but really it's just not enough damage for its high cost, and by the time it's disrupting, they probably have plenty of useless cards in hand to discard instead, which is why I have Thoughtseize in the board, so that I get what I need to get from them rather than hoping they pitch something useful to Blightning.
Also, the fact that it's pretty mediocre against aggro, and Zoo is one of the most prevalent decks in the format makes it a bad choice in my opinion.
I've been testing a lot with a BR Burn deck on Cockatrice for Modern, and it has played exceptionally well. My only 2 losses since I've made the deck about two weeks ago, with a couple of matches per day, have been to Bant. Turn 1 Noble Hierarch into turn 2 Rhox War Monk, into turn 3 Rafiq is really hard to beat as Burn.
Dark Confidant is insane, and enough reason to run black in itself, but with Bump in the Night being another Lava Spike (and flashback-able if the game goes late), I think that playing Burn without black in Modern is just handi-capping yourself.
And that's not even mentioning the sideboard options that black gives you: Rain of Gore destroys any hopes that Bant, Soul Sisters, etc. have of even staying in the game, and Thoughtseize handily takes care of most combo decks.
I actually just recently cut Hellspark Elemental after tons of disappointing performances game after game. I added in Magma Jet to fill the gap, and I've been nothing but impressed. The fact that it lets you shift through your deck, weeding out lands, or even just setting up a nice Confidant flip, all while Shocking just makes it amazing.
Hellspark was just plain bad in most of my experiences. Sure, sometimes it was Incinerate with flashback (which, honestly, isn't even that impressive to start with), but many times, I would draw it off the top on a clogged board state, and just look at our life totals, and if it had been practically any burn spell instead, the game would be over.
So, let me know what you guys think of the deck, and any changes you would make. I highly recommend giving it a spin.
Also, don't be surprised by the occasional turn 3 wins.
The problem is that Legacy is a very varied format, and many decks are fully developed and competitive but are underplayed.
I think that decks like Welder MUD, Aggro Loam or even Enchantress should have a place in the Established section. It certainly would make no sense to put them in Developing.
I completely agree with this.
As for the setup, I like JoshuaD's format, except I think the non-stickied established decks should stretch all the way down the list, and not just cut off at 2. Most of those decks are well past the developing stage and just don't belong in Developing. I also think that Belcher and Death & Taxes should be considered to be stuck into Established, as they've made Top 16 and are very well known, and not really developing any longer (the occasional 2-4 flex spot change isn't really development).
What are we calling Team America, btw? There seems to be some disagreement. Some people lump essentially every BUG deck under that category, others limit it to the specific deck that runs Goyf, Confidant, Tourach, Stifle, and Tombstalker.
Confidant and Tombstalker don't belong in the same deck. Tombstalker is for the more tempo-based variants, and Confidant is for the more control-based ones. Example: Stifle and Wasteland versions want Tombstalker, but Jace/No-Stifle versions want Confidant.
Counterspell and Vedalken Shackles don't seem too much in the spirit of Tempo, but the rest of the deck is. I would cut those for more tempo spells/some land. 20 land is not enough in this deck, especially with Wastelands, and if you plan on keeping Shackles. I could see going to 22 easily. Snapcaster is also an easy 4-of with Brainstorms, Bolts, Spell Snares, Stifles, and all that.
Right now, this seems very tempo-y. I could see a more control based list with Shackles and Counterspell working out fine, but then you should be cutting things like Daze and probably Stifle and possibly some Wastelands.
I think that you should really pick which direction you want to go, either tempo or straight control, and not mesh the two so much.
Also, the sideboard seems very abstract. I know it's entirely meta-dependent, but still seems a bit out there (the Ensnaring Bridge, the Surgical/Crypt split (Surgical seems better in most cases with Snapcaster to flashback), the Pithing Needles, etc.).
Also, it seems very hard to deal with most creatures if they get past your counters. Especially Tarmogoyf (one of the most widely played cards in Legacy). And if an opposing Stoneforge can get a Batterskull in before you Bolt it in the 1 turn window, you're done. I mean, sure, you can Stifle it, but that only buys you one turn.
I don't know, it just doesn't seem powerful enough for how slow it is, and how little creature control there is. Though, if your goal is to bend over combo, your large counterspell suite is looking like it will get the job done.
What happens when I have 2 Libraries out? Do I draw 3, then put back 2, then draw those 2 again and put them back? Or do I draw 5, then put back 4? Or something else absurd?
4x Spellskite was in the maindeck of a Wolf Run that made top 8 at my states. He said it was almost entirely because he expected so much of the mirror (which ended up being probably a minimum of 30% of the field). He played a lot of the mirror to make it to top 8, so I would say Spellskite really is great. It also helps with the mono-red matchup a good bit.
One of the guys I road up with made 2nd in the Swiss with Solar Flare (which he cut Liliana in) to get a box, so that was pretty fly. Georgia's Top 8 was:
2x Solar Flare
3x Wolf Run
1x Mono Red
1x Mono Black Infect
1x UW Control (Though it may have been UWb control, but it wasn't Solar Flare)
I ended up going 2-3 with Grixis Tezzeret before I dropped and ate at the Chinese buffet next door with some other guys.
Also, the Mono Black Infect was the only undefeated in Swiss (with the help of Liliana). I didn't stay after the quarterfinals though, so I didn't get to see who won. The other Solar Flare deck was running Blade Splicers and Venser as well as no Liliana by the way. Sever the Bloodline mixed with Spellbomb in the sideboard was definitely what won the mirror. He was overloaded with mirror answers.
There were also at least 2 or 3 GW Tokens decks in the top 16. They destroyed Wolf Run all day, but went belly up to Solar Flare.
Oh, there were like 150 people or something (8 rounds).
Random stuff like Tezzeret, MBC, etc. Stuff that is bound to show up but can't possibly win. You don't want to lose to these decks.
Tezzeret isn't fake at the moment. In the last Standard it was, but it's a real deck now. In fact, it's what I'm taking to States tomorrow (as long as I can make it). Grixis version in fact (Galvanic Blast and Slagstorm help the deck a lot).
I don't think that's true at all. Everyone in the top 8 is there because they want to win and have been playing to win the whole day. No one is at a PTQ because they want a pin, but the pin at least gives you something to show for it if you don't qualify for the pro tour.
You still get the top 8 playmats (if I'm not mistaken), which, I don't know about you, but I would consider better than a pin.
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I'm right here. Why?
Rift Bolt is only 1 mana. At least 99% of the time it's just suspended for a turn. That's what makes it playable. Nobody would be paying 3 mana for that. It's just another Lightning Bolt, which is the most efficient burn spell in the deck. Brimstone isn't on that level.
Flames of the Blood Hand's ability is actually relevant a large amount of the time. Between all of the Kitchen Finks, Rhox War Monks, and Lightning Helixes of the format, along with any other random life gain cards, it really has proven itself.
Your game is already great versus control, and Zoo and Affinity are typically in topdeck mode (or might have 1 or 2 cards in hand) by turn 4 anyway. If you're on the draw, Blightning is useless against them, and if you're on the play, it doesn't do that much.
I would rather get that extra point of damage at a critical time, and just not worry about the extra Tarmogoyf that they have in their hand when they're at 7 life and I'm at 17. The 'goyf (or whatever it may be) isn't a big deal, and I can just burn them out before the beats kill me.
Control has yet to put up even the meekest defense against this deck. I did however run into a Jund deck that was giving me a little bit of trouble yesterday. It came down to me having to topdeck a 3 damage spell or die next turn. Though of course, the Lightning Bolt off the top was for the win. Punishing Grove is better than I expected it to be against me. I couldn't stick a single creature the whole game.
Blightning is just too slow for Burn. Why should I care about their hand if I could just be killing them faster instead? Flames of the Blood Hand is already pushing the limit for the mana cost, and I'm considering going to 3 instead and adding another cheap burn. Blightning does less damage than that, so I wouldn't really consider it.
I suppose it might be sideboard-able against heavy control or slow combo, but really it's just not enough damage for its high cost, and by the time it's disrupting, they probably have plenty of useless cards in hand to discard instead, which is why I have Thoughtseize in the board, so that I get what I need to get from them rather than hoping they pitch something useful to Blightning.
Also, the fact that it's pretty mediocre against aggro, and Zoo is one of the most prevalent decks in the format makes it a bad choice in my opinion.
But anyway, here's the list:
4 Grim Lavamancer
4 Dark Confidant
4 Keldon Marauders
4 Bump in the Night
4 Lava Spike
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Magma Jet
4 Rift Bolt
4 Flames of the Blood Hand
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Arid Mesa
3 Blood Crypt
4 Thoughtseize
4 Smash to Smithereens
3 Flamebreak
1 Ratchet Bomb
3 Rain of Gore
Dark Confidant is insane, and enough reason to run black in itself, but with Bump in the Night being another Lava Spike (and flashback-able if the game goes late), I think that playing Burn without black in Modern is just handi-capping yourself.
And that's not even mentioning the sideboard options that black gives you: Rain of Gore destroys any hopes that Bant, Soul Sisters, etc. have of even staying in the game, and Thoughtseize handily takes care of most combo decks.
I actually just recently cut Hellspark Elemental after tons of disappointing performances game after game. I added in Magma Jet to fill the gap, and I've been nothing but impressed. The fact that it lets you shift through your deck, weeding out lands, or even just setting up a nice Confidant flip, all while Shocking just makes it amazing.
Hellspark was just plain bad in most of my experiences. Sure, sometimes it was Incinerate with flashback (which, honestly, isn't even that impressive to start with), but many times, I would draw it off the top on a clogged board state, and just look at our life totals, and if it had been practically any burn spell instead, the game would be over.
So, let me know what you guys think of the deck, and any changes you would make. I highly recommend giving it a spin.
Also, don't be surprised by the occasional turn 3 wins.
I completely agree with this.
As for the setup, I like JoshuaD's format, except I think the non-stickied established decks should stretch all the way down the list, and not just cut off at 2. Most of those decks are well past the developing stage and just don't belong in Developing. I also think that Belcher and Death & Taxes should be considered to be stuck into Established, as they've made Top 16 and are very well known, and not really developing any longer (the occasional 2-4 flex spot change isn't really development).
And, as an aside:
Confidant and Tombstalker don't belong in the same deck. Tombstalker is for the more tempo-based variants, and Confidant is for the more control-based ones. Example: Stifle and Wasteland versions want Tombstalker, but Jace/No-Stifle versions want Confidant.
Right now, this seems very tempo-y. I could see a more control based list with Shackles and Counterspell working out fine, but then you should be cutting things like Daze and probably Stifle and possibly some Wastelands.
I think that you should really pick which direction you want to go, either tempo or straight control, and not mesh the two so much.
Also, the sideboard seems very abstract. I know it's entirely meta-dependent, but still seems a bit out there (the Ensnaring Bridge, the Surgical/Crypt split (Surgical seems better in most cases with Snapcaster to flashback), the Pithing Needles, etc.).
Also, it seems very hard to deal with most creatures if they get past your counters. Especially Tarmogoyf (one of the most widely played cards in Legacy). And if an opposing Stoneforge can get a Batterskull in before you Bolt it in the 1 turn window, you're done. I mean, sure, you can Stifle it, but that only buys you one turn.
I don't know, it just doesn't seem powerful enough for how slow it is, and how little creature control there is. Though, if your goal is to bend over combo, your large counterspell suite is looking like it will get the job done.
What happens when I have 2 Libraries out? Do I draw 3, then put back 2, then draw those 2 again and put them back? Or do I draw 5, then put back 4? Or something else absurd?
How does dredging (such as one Life from the Loam) interact with Sylvan Library? And what happens if I dredge two or three in that draw step?
The Personal Sanctuaries make it so that Manabarbs doesn't do any damage to you. It's sort of a little combo.
2x Solar Flare
3x Wolf Run
1x Mono Red
1x Mono Black Infect
1x UW Control (Though it may have been UWb control, but it wasn't Solar Flare)
I ended up going 2-3 with Grixis Tezzeret before I dropped and ate at the Chinese buffet next door with some other guys.
Also, the Mono Black Infect was the only undefeated in Swiss (with the help of Liliana). I didn't stay after the quarterfinals though, so I didn't get to see who won. The other Solar Flare deck was running Blade Splicers and Venser as well as no Liliana by the way. Sever the Bloodline mixed with Spellbomb in the sideboard was definitely what won the mirror. He was overloaded with mirror answers.
There were also at least 2 or 3 GW Tokens decks in the top 16. They destroyed Wolf Run all day, but went belly up to Solar Flare.
Oh, there were like 150 people or something (8 rounds).
Tezzeret isn't fake at the moment. In the last Standard it was, but it's a real deck now. In fact, it's what I'm taking to States tomorrow (as long as I can make it). Grixis version in fact (Galvanic Blast and Slagstorm help the deck a lot).
I do agree that MBC is still bad though.
You still get the top 8 playmats (if I'm not mistaken), which, I don't know about you, but I would consider better than a pin.