Wait this thread is still alive? I guess I can update opening post unless someone wants it? Curse not agree with my mobile severely impacts the amount of time I can spend on this forum.
I actually think the green delve creature is underrated and might make it in legacy. Its a quick 4/4 immunes to decay and counterbalance which is fairly strong.
I doubt that Treasure Cruise and Dig Through Time could draw you 3 cards on turn 5 like Ancestral Vision for 0 mana on that turn. At the very least, even if your graveyard was full enough to delve the 6 or 7 cards, you would still have to spend mana to cast Treasure Cruise or Dig Through Time. After you cast the first one, you need more cards in your graveyard to efficiently cast another copy. If you get two copies of either early on, the second copy is probably useless. If you have 2 or more copies of AV, you will suspend them so that you can draw 3 extra cards on successive turns. See the difference. AV is way too good to be unbanned.
If you run fetches and can trips a turn 5 treasure find is easy, if you play thought scour you can do it turn 3 a fair amount of the time.
Memories of time- if you want a card draw the engine carrier feeder is disgusting. I don't like the champion though, I'd rather run recursion dudes that don't cost extra recursion mana like.bloodghast.
Cyclonic Rift and Mizzium Mortars can be rare because they affect the whole board potentially. Fireball+2, even if better, is an exceedingly simple card for its rarity. Fireball itself is far more complex than the new one. At least Devils Play had to be rare because it would have been too awesome in limited. Even the more complex Aurelia's Fury was designed as uncommon and only pushed to mythic bc of limited power level.
Maybe all the real rares come out next week. Or maybe there is in fact a deliberate attempt to reduce complexity and make the game be simpler, and Khans is the debut of that new philosophy.
I'm fine with any blaze effect being rare simply because blaze effects are autopicks in limited. You do not ever pass blaze ever, no not once, I don't care if you are ww, splash it.
I'll just note that only a finite number of cards can be relevant in any standard, regardless of the overall powerlevel. Just to guess, something like 50-75 creatures, 75-100 spells, 25-30 lands. If the top cards are much stronger, the number of relevant cards goes even lower than that. But anyway, only something like 200 cards can be viable at once. There are only so many variations of 1CMC, 2CMC creatures you can make, only so many removal cheap removal spells. How many cards are in a set at any one time? Large sets around around 250, small sets around 160. At the end of last standard around 1700 cards were standard legal (1759, but with reprints like basic lands and such).
So that means about 11% of cards end up seeing competitive play, with maybe double that number in the first set of a new standard. That means you'd only expect about 10-20 cards to be standard playable from what we've seen so far. So far, we have:
End Hostilities
Suspension Field
Wingmate Roc
Clever Impersonator
Empty the Pits
Crater's Claws
War-Name Aspirant
Rattleclaw Mystic
Abzan Ascendancy
Anafenza the Foremost
Crackling Doom
Manis Rider
Mardu Ascendancy
Sagu Mauler
Savage Knuckleblade
Sidisi, Blood Tyrant
Sorin, Solemn Visitor
Sultai Charm
Temur Ascendancy
Utter End
Plus the five fetches and possibly the taplands. And this isn't including cards that might be standard playable in jankier decks like Narset or Sultai Ascendancy or Howl of the Horde. We are actually pretty far above the curve in terms of what you'd expect for playable cards.
I'm not complaining about lack of playable cards, I just have no idea why these seem bumped up a rarity.
Oh my god, rarity is a limited mechanic. So many constructed players gripe about it but that's all it comes down to. Do we want lot of removal at lower rarity in limited? Yes or no? That's the only question here. In this case they went with no, because removal heavy limited environments are less fun by their standards due to the less interesting boardstates. There isn't anything else to it, it is NOT a conspiracy to raise the price of constructed.
That is fine and all but again removal like pillar of light is fine at common, I don't understand why a worse journey to nowhere is uncommon. I like limited but it shouldn't be an excuse for every single mediocre kill spell to be bumped up a rarity. Limited's problem was cards like doom blade that were always slam dunk first pick and you just splash it if you don't end up in the colors. Conditional removal should be at common for limited, its healthy for it to be common at limited, and I don't like seeing something strictly worse than a common from a set that wasn't printed too long ago (granted zen limited was insanely fast). And again its comparable to pillar of light which is an m15 common, hell pillar of light would be the better card in standard atm with enchantment hating elves running around.
Alot of these cards just seem arbitrarily increased in rarity. Its actually weirding me out as I keep thinking the spoilers are wrong then I see the actual card and realize that is just how it is.
My biggest question is whether or not you look at the bottom of the rarity scale and see that they are also weird. So if you feel that some Rares or Mythics are arbitrarily bumped, do you feel that they are equal to or less than some of the cards in the lower rarities?
It's not like the power of commons dropped off, we don't see any 0/1 defenders for GB as commons, so naturally there is still a base line for what common is. Does it follow that Uncommons are also a higher power level (or complexity) than commons? Step the question now to Rares vs Uncommons, then Mythics to Rares. Do they all generally fit in the correct order? If "Yes" then does it still seem arbitrary? And I know it's only an "in general feel".
The tiptoeing over limited has lead to the death of the great commons. That is another discussion entirely but I admit gone are the days of commons like o-ring, bolt, doom blade, etc. But I didn't cover commons because commons encompass everything from playable to utter jank. My intention was not to complain whether or not the set is jank, just that a few of its cards seem out of play in rarity.
What changes Rattleclaw Mystic to a rare? If you're color screwed you can get him out for just colorless mana, he is also a +2 mana burst for a turn which can lead to big tempo pushes. Both are things that we take for granted, but are actually relatively complex due to the planning requirements.
I get why that would make it uncommon but not rare, though the fact just anyone can take it for its unmorph is probably why R&D wanted it rare it still does not seem like its worth it. Pallidium myr showed that strong mana ramp dorks are perfectly fine at uncommon.
I think plenty of people have complained about Wingmate Roc; this bird looks a little too solid for limited to just have at Uncommon, he looks pretty powerful from a synergy standpoint, and I really think has been misevaluated quite a few times. I get it "Mythic is supposed to be for cards that feel epic!" but there is that Vorthos thread about how new players won't understand that this is like the ultimate sky predator (or whatever, I honestly am one of the people who don't know); to some, this is pretty epic.
I think its a strong card, but this card feels super generic. I HATE super generic mythics no matter how good they are. I know a Roc is a legendary king of the skys, a giant bird that can prey on humans, MAKE the card encompass that feel rather just carry its namesake and creature types.
Icy Blast gives a double alpha strike. Double Alpha Attacks. Just add extra combat phases and we're good to go.
Except those tempo cards have never ever been at rare before. This being rare is an utter failure of modern card design imo as most of the time its something like sudden storm but requiring a big creature (not a small drawback) to be as good.
Seriously I don't want to turn this into a "Khans is bad and magic is dying thread," but alot of these cards just seem arbitrarily increased in rarity. Its actually weirding me out as I keep thinking the spoilers are wrong then I see the actual card and realize that is just how it is.
I mean
Rattleclaw Mystic is far closer to golden hind or even generator servant than it is to noble hierch, slyvan cayatid, or even utopia tree. Sure it has a nice unmorph gimmick but I don't really see how that would move it up past uncommon tops. Do they intend to not have any mana fixing in a 3 color set at common for limited? I'm assuming no but this guy at rare makes me question if there are any other mana dorks in the set at all.
wingmate roc is a fairly strong card, but is literally just two birds. It doesn't feel very mythic and is much less complex or abusable as other white mythics like baneslayer angel or archangel of thrune.
Suspension field is currently incorrectly inputted in as a common on this site, its uncommon. Strictly worse Journey to nowhere that is most likely even outclassed my m15's pillar of light is an uncommon in this set.
Clever impersonator is an arguable mythic but clone hasn't been cutting it as a rare for ages and I'm slightly sad wotc decides the revamped clone needs to be mythic.
It just feels like all these cards could be bumped down a rarity no problem, in fact having them at that rarity has literally left me dumbstruck. I no longer have any idea how wotc R&D judges rarity anymore.
Anyone else think this? And is there any other cards I missed?
If your deck doesn't have removal or a huge mass of creatures + Mutavaults the card will just destroy you.
Jared Boettcher was just peeling demons all day against aggro in the finals and they couldn't handle it one bit.
There just wasn't any good answers in Theros block. Arbor Colossus was always late to the party and you have already been Thoughtseized, Devour Flesh'd and Lifebane Zombie'd so there's no hope of even getting it to stick.
Demon took over largely because lingering souls made it by far a worse choice for inn jund midrange than any other threat. The card was never bad.
I mean ravinca was a multi-colored set and yet mono-color has never had so many viable options in standard, at least not in quite some time.
Its hard to say, devotion is a very powerful mechanic on the good devotion cards, they give ALOT of incentive to be mono or very close to mono with splashes.
Elspeth is move diverse, she is also a wrath, and she can stabilize quite a few boards. She just pumps out tokens all day.
Nissa is good at pressuring but at a cost, she is using a resource, which has to be taken into account. As strong as she is she does potentially tie up you mana and there is a real chance the opponent can mana screw you out of the game with sufficient removal.
Since the vote had him I picked garruk :P. I don't know if I would really consider him better than both but I've had a blast playing him in fnms and game days so far. When he comes down he is always a terror.
Do you have some decent money cards? Flip them and build a decent deck, if you do well enough in limited or get lucky enough opening packs it shouldn't be hard to build at least one of the cheaper standard decks.
Rotation is annoying in standard, but its also just once a year, and if you are smart you can drop the pricy stuff from last block a bit in advance and use it to spec pick up cool cards for what you think can get played next standard.
I mean with 10 bucks you could probably build a tier 2-1.5 ww deck, for like 25 bucks you can build a budget red deck.
Playing standard doesn't have to mean buying into something like UW control and dropping $300 on one deck.
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If you run fetches and can trips a turn 5 treasure find is easy, if you play thought scour you can do it turn 3 a fair amount of the time.
I'm fine with any blaze effect being rare simply because blaze effects are autopicks in limited. You do not ever pass blaze ever, no not once, I don't care if you are ww, splash it.
I'm not complaining about lack of playable cards, I just have no idea why these seem bumped up a rarity.
That is fine and all but again removal like pillar of light is fine at common, I don't understand why a worse journey to nowhere is uncommon. I like limited but it shouldn't be an excuse for every single mediocre kill spell to be bumped up a rarity. Limited's problem was cards like doom blade that were always slam dunk first pick and you just splash it if you don't end up in the colors. Conditional removal should be at common for limited, its healthy for it to be common at limited, and I don't like seeing something strictly worse than a common from a set that wasn't printed too long ago (granted zen limited was insanely fast). And again its comparable to pillar of light which is an m15 common, hell pillar of light would be the better card in standard atm with enchantment hating elves running around.
The tiptoeing over limited has lead to the death of the great commons. That is another discussion entirely but I admit gone are the days of commons like o-ring, bolt, doom blade, etc. But I didn't cover commons because commons encompass everything from playable to utter jank. My intention was not to complain whether or not the set is jank, just that a few of its cards seem out of play in rarity.
I get why that would make it uncommon but not rare, though the fact just anyone can take it for its unmorph is probably why R&D wanted it rare it still does not seem like its worth it. Pallidium myr showed that strong mana ramp dorks are perfectly fine at uncommon.
I think its a strong card, but this card feels super generic. I HATE super generic mythics no matter how good they are. I know a Roc is a legendary king of the skys, a giant bird that can prey on humans, MAKE the card encompass that feel rather just carry its namesake and creature types.
Except those tempo cards have never ever been at rare before. This being rare is an utter failure of modern card design imo as most of the time its something like sudden storm but requiring a big creature (not a small drawback) to be as good.
I mean
Rattleclaw Mystic is far closer to golden hind or even generator servant than it is to noble hierch, slyvan cayatid, or even utopia tree. Sure it has a nice unmorph gimmick but I don't really see how that would move it up past uncommon tops. Do they intend to not have any mana fixing in a 3 color set at common for limited? I'm assuming no but this guy at rare makes me question if there are any other mana dorks in the set at all.
wingmate roc is a fairly strong card, but is literally just two birds. It doesn't feel very mythic and is much less complex or abusable as other white mythics like baneslayer angel or archangel of thrune.
Suspension field is currently incorrectly inputted in as a common on this site, its uncommon. Strictly worse Journey to nowhere that is most likely even outclassed my m15's pillar of light is an uncommon in this set.
Clever impersonator is an arguable mythic but clone hasn't been cutting it as a rare for ages and I'm slightly sad wotc decides the revamped clone needs to be mythic.
icy blast is a gridlock with conditional upside, a card not strictly better than sudden storm, and its a rare.
It just feels like all these cards could be bumped down a rarity no problem, in fact having them at that rarity has literally left me dumbstruck. I no longer have any idea how wotc R&D judges rarity anymore.
Anyone else think this? And is there any other cards I missed?
Demon took over largely because lingering souls made it by far a worse choice for inn jund midrange than any other threat. The card was never bad.
Its hard to say, devotion is a very powerful mechanic on the good devotion cards, they give ALOT of incentive to be mono or very close to mono with splashes.
Nissa is good at pressuring but at a cost, she is using a resource, which has to be taken into account. As strong as she is she does potentially tie up you mana and there is a real chance the opponent can mana screw you out of the game with sufficient removal.
Since the vote had him I picked garruk :P. I don't know if I would really consider him better than both but I've had a blast playing him in fnms and game days so far. When he comes down he is always a terror.
Rotation is annoying in standard, but its also just once a year, and if you are smart you can drop the pricy stuff from last block a bit in advance and use it to spec pick up cool cards for what you think can get played next standard.
I mean with 10 bucks you could probably build a tier 2-1.5 ww deck, for like 25 bucks you can build a budget red deck.
Playing standard doesn't have to mean buying into something like UW control and dropping $300 on one deck.