This is not true. In the Gatherer rulings it says:
"If the target creature is not still on the battlefield when the damage is to be redirected, the damage stays where it is."
And if you exile the creature and it enters the battlefield again that is kinda the same as it is not considered to be the same object as the one the damage should be redirected too. If you give the creature Protection or Indestructible, that works just fine, but exiling doesn't help.
I'm crossing my fingers for Sterling Grove. This card is amazing and would become a great tool box for Bogles.
It's a great card but I think it would still be too slow as a tutor. The Shroud effect could be interesting though, but I am not sure how much it is really needed.
I hope that they put a Steelshaper's Gift in Modern Horizons that searches for an Aura instead of an Equipment card.
So I've been playing bogles forever, and side-boarding has always been pretty easy for most matchups since we just have good hate in our colors. But what on earth am I supposed to do against phoenix? Like do I just bring in the rest of the Paths and pray?? (Also I usually play a bant build just for fun so if there are any suggestions to help in blue I'll take that too) I guess my issue is I just think damping sphere and rest in peace are both just a little too slow and kinda weak against it anyway. Any help would be much appreciated!
Sideboarding against Phoenix was just talked about to pages ago.
Thanks, seems my thinking is mostly right so far. I still try to get a grasp of the current metagame. Could someone tell wich are the best and worst match ups for Bogles right now?
I have played Bogles quite a while ago and now I wanted to bring the deck out again and play some modern. Thing is I haven't been to a Modern Tournament for maybe a year or so and the metagame has changed drastically since then. There are so many new decks and that means I don't know how to sideboard, I hope you can help me with that.
It's definitely nice to see that this thread still has some traction to it.
I never understood having cards like Deglamer and Unravel in the sideboard. What is it mainly going after. I understand that you could target your own things but can't see 4 sideboard slots just for that. Can anyone give reasoning for it?
As I didn't build the deck and am quite out of the loop I can only guess that the 4 Deglamer/Unravel are against Tron and the artifact Prison decks (Lantern and Lanternless or Whir Prison or whatever you wanna call it) decks. Although I don't think it's needed as much against Tron. Against Lantern it helps to get rid of Ensnaring Bridge while getting around Welding Jar, as a little bonus it messes with your opponent if you play Deglamer/Unravel in response to them activating Bell/Pyxis/Codex Shredder on themselves.
Case Johnson made third place out of 988, so there is something to ther 4 Deglamer/Unravel.
Regarding the Lantern matchup I wanted to ask what your experiences with that matchup are and how everyone sideboards against those. (Or maybe you can link me to a guide that's up to date? I couldn't find one using google.) I also just found out that there is also this Prison deck with Whir of Invention, wich doesn't play any of the mill cards, is that more popular now than classic Lantern?
So there are alot of cards I want to board against those:
-Gaddock Teeg instead of Spiritdancers, against Engineered Explosives and Chalice.
-Stony Silence, is that needed against Lantern? I think it's more useful against Whir Prison.
-Deglamer against both of those decks.
-Leyline of Sanctity against the Lantern decks that play discard.
Cards to take out are probably Path to Exile and Spirit Mantle, although the Whir deck has Spellskites again, wich makes Path useful again. There are just so many cards, I am not sure. And it looks like the matchup isn't that great? They have so many cards that just stop Bogles outright (but that is more a problem of Modern in general imho, sideboard cards are way too powerful).
Against the Izzet Phoenix deck, what do you board? Path's are needed. Is Rest in Peace super important? Should I board Deglamer/Unravel, just to be able to maybe get rid of Blood Moon?
Do you have any more important info regarding the general metagame and match ups?
@Worldsaverinc Could you write a bit more about your sideboard plans for specific matchups (not only the ones you mentioned at the top of this page)? I am trying different dinosaur builds atm, but with little success. I guess it's in part because I don't know how to sideboard with this deck yet. I didn't play standard before RIX, so I am not familiar with a lot of decks.
I did saw your post before you edited it, but didn't have the opportunity to comment before. I did not want to propose certain switches, but wanted to provide food for thought. I don't know wich cards are within your budget and what your playgroup plays excactly, wich makes it harder to evaluate and propose specific cards. Also building a Commander deck is a process, tuning 100 card singleton is much harder than tuning the 60 card 4-of deck and I believe that there is no perfect configuration for a Commander deck, there are just so many options and so few slots. In the end you have to try and see what works for you and your playgroup.
To comment on your recent changes, I like the cuts of Sarkhan and Archetype of Aggression, but don't like the addition of the expensive counterspells, as it is hard to keep up 4 or 5 mana if you want to slam dragons at the same time. And the UUU cost on Cryptic Command is so prohibitive for this deck. Maybe try Arcane Denial if you want a counterspell?
There is a really good thread here (click) wich talks about the Draconic Domination deck, you should look there for suggestions.
An especially good one imho is to use the Battle for Zendikar duals like Cinder Glade and the Mirage Fetches like Bad River. While still having a your lands etb tapped often those would help you play with cards like Farseek, Nature`s Lore etc. The cycling dual lands from Amonkhet are an option too but always etb tapped. Also good old Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse were suggested and I would second that. You should play a few more Basic Lands to your list if you want to add those cards, but I think it's a solid option for a 5-color manabase.
A legit way to tackle the mana of the deck is to treat it as a RG deck wich splashes all the other colors and plays basic fetching ramp spells like Sakura Tribe Elder, Kodama's Reach, Cultivate, etc. It's doesn't make the most powerful mana base for the deck, but it shouldn't slow you down much and make WUBRG easily avaible. And it doesn't cost you a fortune!
Anyways as long as you don't have a mana base with Beta duals or shocks, plus fetches I would suggest for you to reduce the number of cards with double coloured mana costs you play unless it's double red wich you just need for many of your dragons (Even with my near perfect mana base I find Niv-Mizzets cost prohibitive at times). And I would in general look to reduce the mana curve of your non-dragon spells, so that you can play more than one spell a turn later in the game and have options early in the game besides ramping and fixing. So I would reduce the number of wraths for cheap spot removal and also switch some of the other more expensive instants and sorceries out.
Are all cheap (money wise), flexible and can replace cards Rain of Thorns or Akroma's Vengeance for example. Sylvan Reclamation while costing a bit more mana is better then Return to Dust imho, because it's effect is more powerful it doesn't cost double white and has the option to fix your mana.
For portection protection spells I would suggest Swan Song. It's a single mana to keep up and counters everything that could really make you worry if you have a bunch of dragons out. Kindred Boon is a cool card, but it's to mana intensive and if the enchantment is removed all your creatures lose indestructible (because the ability is not granted through the counter but the enchantment).
Dragonlords Prerogative and Harmonize are other cards that can be swapped out for cards like Rhystic Study (costs money though), Elemental Bond and Temur Ascendancy (wich also grants haste), maybe also add Curse of Verbosity back into the deck again (don't know how good that one really is, have to test more). What I like about those enchantments is that I can drop them early and they keep drawing me cards so that I can keep slamming dragons. I also play Monastery Siege but atm I am not sure about it, may switch that one out in the future.
Another card I don't like in the deck in general is Mirror of the Forbears. One would think that copying a dragon for cheap, giving it pseudo haste is good, but in reality it just adds another mana to the cost of your dragons and doesn't work with most of them because they are legendary. It's just really bad in this deck.
I also bought the deck and play the Ur-Dragon. I don't know your meta but in my meta the decks are powerful but at the same time quite casual, we don't have any combo or lock decks and a few cards like Sol Ring are not played. So what I say may not be fully applicable for you.
First, what I think are the worst cards in your deck are the Lairs. They fix your mana and are falvourful, but they also slow you down so much because of the bounce clause they have. This is for sure not the thing you want in a deck full of expensive creatures.
My list is not fully tuned, but I play a lot of fetches and shocks. So regarding the check and filter lands, I can't really say something about those because I haven't tried them. But I think the tri lands are better for you, check lands will probably come into play tapped often and filter lands probably won't be able to make colored that often, especially in the early game. Your list is also missing Path of Ancestry and Crucible of the Spirit Dragon and you could try other 5-color lands like Forbidden Orchard, Exotic Orchard, Reflecting Pool, City of Brass or Grand Coliseum.
Regarding other ramp and fixing I think about 12-14 spells is a good number wich gives you a good chance to draw 2 of them early. I also decided to reduce the costs of my spells a bit so that I am able to maybe play two of them early and put a dragon down on turn 4 or at least turn 5 wich often works. Ramps I play are Wayfarer's Bauble, Sakura Trib Elder, Farseek, Nature's Lore (those two may not be that interesting for you because you don't play duals and fetches), Fellwar Stone, Darksteel Ingot, Herald's Horn (doubles as card advantage), Chromatic Lantern, Coalition Relic, Urza's Incubator, Dragonspeaker Shaman (those two are good they ramp 2!), Prismatic Geoscope (also not good without duals) and Frontier Siege wich I play with the Dragons mode more often than Khans.
Hope that helps, I may write more later, going to bed now.
Ok so I'm considering adding Avalanche Riders (because I'm a dick.). Does anyone have any experience with the card in Marchesa? Also, I need a suggestion on what to cut please.
I don't like Avalanche Riders that much, they cost too much mana. You play them, blow up a land, attack, they get a counter, now there are two a few ways how this can go:
-Either they live through combat, then during your next upkeep you pay Echo, then they aren't better then Ravenous Baboons. Avalanche Riders has haste but cost 8 mana total.
-Other way, they live through combat, during upkeep you don't pay Echo, they die, come back during your endstep, blow up a land and during your next upkeep you have to pay echo again if you want to keep them. This way you have too pay Echo every other turn and paint a big target on your head because you also destroy a land every other turn
-Or they die in combat, and come back during your endstep, blow up a land and you have to pay Echo during your upkeep if you want to go on with them. This way you blow up a land each turn and also pay echo each turn and paint an even bigger target on your head because you destroy a land on each of your turns.
The best land destruction creature for the deck is probably Fulminator Mage, but it's expensive. Ravenous Baboons is budget, but not as powerful and then there is also Shivan Harvest, wich I haven't tested, but should do the job. But it will also get your opponent's attention. There are probably other options too that I may not remember right now.
So it turns out that the Herald of Secret Streams is a 4-drop rather than a 3-drop, but I still think it makes the cut.
Also Angrath's Marauders costs 7 mana, not 5... But maybe it's still good enough? The effect is really strong.
And Eli Shiffrin, the rules manager, now errata'd Hostage Taker to exile another target creature or artifact. Here's the tweet about it.
Cool list you have there, Mairsil didn't interest me that much, but now I am considering building her.
Quick search showed me Torchling and Cinderhaze Wretch. Both good untappers with more abilities. Cinderhaze Wretch could replace Greel?
So what do you all think about Shifting Shadow? Seems like a nice card for this deck as it gives haste and card advantage and a "sac outlet" to reuse etb triggers. It has the usual problems that auras have, can be an easy 2-for-1, but it's cheap and has so much potential!
So as of me writing this post only one new card remains to be spoiled and there aren't many Wizards that would be interesting for Marchesa. Most of the Wizards are about Instants, Sorceries and getting card advantage somehow. I guessed this would happen, wizards just aren't a super aggressiv tribe like vampires.
Anyone else tried Arcbond as a boardwipe? So far I'm having really good results with the instant speed.
Haven't tried it yet, but it doesn't look bad. I have experienced others playing this card, it really is a solid board wipe, but I can imagine weired situations where it doesn't do what you would want it to do.
Never ever ever cut living death. Pariah is a good cut, all the others should stay.
Don't know if it was in this thread or one of the others, but people talked about how Living Death is often a dead card because we are ahead on the board and/or other players graveyards are stocked much better than our own. Although in most situations where you want to play it Living Death is really awesome. I also don't play Entomb (don't own one) or other ways to fill my grave. I am not sure, maybe I should just switch some cards around and try them out, I can always switch back later.
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"If the target creature is not still on the battlefield when the damage is to be redirected, the damage stays where it is."
And if you exile the creature and it enters the battlefield again that is kinda the same as it is not considered to be the same object as the one the damage should be redirected too. If you give the creature Protection or Indestructible, that works just fine, but exiling doesn't help.
It's a great card but I think it would still be too slow as a tutor. The Shroud effect could be interesting though, but I am not sure how much it is really needed.
I hope that they put a Steelshaper's Gift in Modern Horizons that searches for an Aura instead of an Equipment card.
Sideboarding against Phoenix was just talked about to pages ago.
I have played Bogles quite a while ago and now I wanted to bring the deck out again and play some modern. Thing is I haven't been to a Modern Tournament for maybe a year or so and the metagame has changed drastically since then. There are so many new decks and that means I don't know how to sideboard, I hope you can help me with that.
It's definitely nice to see that this thread still has some traction to it.
As I didn't build the deck and am quite out of the loop I can only guess that the 4 Deglamer/Unravel are against Tron and the artifact Prison decks (Lantern and Lanternless or Whir Prison or whatever you wanna call it) decks. Although I don't think it's needed as much against Tron. Against Lantern it helps to get rid of Ensnaring Bridge while getting around Welding Jar, as a little bonus it messes with your opponent if you play Deglamer/Unravel in response to them activating Bell/Pyxis/Codex Shredder on themselves.
Case Johnson made third place out of 988, so there is something to ther 4 Deglamer/Unravel.
Regarding the Lantern matchup I wanted to ask what your experiences with that matchup are and how everyone sideboards against those. (Or maybe you can link me to a guide that's up to date? I couldn't find one using google.) I also just found out that there is also this Prison deck with Whir of Invention, wich doesn't play any of the mill cards, is that more popular now than classic Lantern?
So there are alot of cards I want to board against those:
-Gaddock Teeg instead of Spiritdancers, against Engineered Explosives and Chalice.
-Stony Silence, is that needed against Lantern? I think it's more useful against Whir Prison.
-Deglamer against both of those decks.
-Leyline of Sanctity against the Lantern decks that play discard.
Cards to take out are probably Path to Exile and Spirit Mantle, although the Whir deck has Spellskites again, wich makes Path useful again. There are just so many cards, I am not sure. And it looks like the matchup isn't that great? They have so many cards that just stop Bogles outright (but that is more a problem of Modern in general imho, sideboard cards are way too powerful).
Against the Izzet Phoenix deck, what do you board? Path's are needed. Is Rest in Peace super important? Should I board Deglamer/Unravel, just to be able to maybe get rid of Blood Moon?
Do you have any more important info regarding the general metagame and match ups?
To comment on your recent changes, I like the cuts of Sarkhan and Archetype of Aggression, but don't like the addition of the expensive counterspells, as it is hard to keep up 4 or 5 mana if you want to slam dragons at the same time. And the UUU cost on Cryptic Command is so prohibitive for this deck. Maybe try Arcane Denial if you want a counterspell?
An especially good one imho is to use the Battle for Zendikar duals like Cinder Glade and the Mirage Fetches like Bad River. While still having a your lands etb tapped often those would help you play with cards like Farseek, Nature`s Lore etc. The cycling dual lands from Amonkhet are an option too but always etb tapped. Also good old Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse were suggested and I would second that. You should play a few more Basic Lands to your list if you want to add those cards, but I think it's a solid option for a 5-color manabase.
A legit way to tackle the mana of the deck is to treat it as a RG deck wich splashes all the other colors and plays basic fetching ramp spells like Sakura Tribe Elder, Kodama's Reach, Cultivate, etc. It's doesn't make the most powerful mana base for the deck, but it shouldn't slow you down much and make WUBRG easily avaible. And it doesn't cost you a fortune!
Anyways as long as you don't have a mana base with Beta duals or shocks, plus fetches I would suggest for you to reduce the number of cards with double coloured mana costs you play unless it's double red wich you just need for many of your dragons (Even with my near perfect mana base I find Niv-Mizzets cost prohibitive at times). And I would in general look to reduce the mana curve of your non-dragon spells, so that you can play more than one spell a turn later in the game and have options early in the game besides ramping and fixing. So I would reduce the number of wraths for cheap spot removal and also switch some of the other more expensive instants and sorceries out.
Are all cheap (money wise), flexible and can replace cards Rain of Thorns or Akroma's Vengeance for example. Sylvan Reclamation while costing a bit more mana is better then Return to Dust imho, because it's effect is more powerful it doesn't cost double white and has the option to fix your mana.
For portection protection spells I would suggest Swan Song. It's a single mana to keep up and counters everything that could really make you worry if you have a bunch of dragons out. Kindred Boon is a cool card, but it's to mana intensive and if the enchantment is removed all your creatures lose indestructible (because the ability is not granted through the counter but the enchantment).
Dragonlords Prerogative and Harmonize are other cards that can be swapped out for cards like Rhystic Study (costs money though), Elemental Bond and Temur Ascendancy (wich also grants haste), maybe also add Curse of Verbosity back into the deck again (don't know how good that one really is, have to test more). What I like about those enchantments is that I can drop them early and they keep drawing me cards so that I can keep slamming dragons. I also play Monastery Siege but atm I am not sure about it, may switch that one out in the future.
Another card I don't like in the deck in general is Mirror of the Forbears. One would think that copying a dragon for cheap, giving it pseudo haste is good, but in reality it just adds another mana to the cost of your dragons and doesn't work with most of them because they are legendary. It's just really bad in this deck.
First, what I think are the worst cards in your deck are the Lairs. They fix your mana and are falvourful, but they also slow you down so much because of the bounce clause they have. This is for sure not the thing you want in a deck full of expensive creatures.
My list is not fully tuned, but I play a lot of fetches and shocks. So regarding the check and filter lands, I can't really say something about those because I haven't tried them. But I think the tri lands are better for you, check lands will probably come into play tapped often and filter lands probably won't be able to make colored that often, especially in the early game. Your list is also missing Path of Ancestry and Crucible of the Spirit Dragon and you could try other 5-color lands like Forbidden Orchard, Exotic Orchard, Reflecting Pool, City of Brass or Grand Coliseum.
Regarding other ramp and fixing I think about 12-14 spells is a good number wich gives you a good chance to draw 2 of them early. I also decided to reduce the costs of my spells a bit so that I am able to maybe play two of them early and put a dragon down on turn 4 or at least turn 5 wich often works. Ramps I play are Wayfarer's Bauble, Sakura Trib Elder, Farseek, Nature's Lore (those two may not be that interesting for you because you don't play duals and fetches), Fellwar Stone, Darksteel Ingot, Herald's Horn (doubles as card advantage), Chromatic Lantern, Coalition Relic, Urza's Incubator, Dragonspeaker Shaman (those two are good they ramp 2!), Prismatic Geoscope (also not good without duals) and Frontier Siege wich I play with the Dragons mode more often than Khans.
Hope that helps, I may write more later, going to bed now.
I don't like Avalanche Riders that much, they cost too much mana. You play them, blow up a land, attack, they get a counter, now there are two a few ways how this can go:
-Either they live through combat, then during your next upkeep you pay Echo, then they aren't better then Ravenous Baboons. Avalanche Riders has haste but cost 8 mana total.
-Other way, they live through combat, during upkeep you don't pay Echo, they die, come back during your endstep, blow up a land and during your next upkeep you have to pay echo again if you want to keep them. This way you have too pay Echo every other turn and paint a big target on your head because you also destroy a land every other turn
-Or they die in combat, and come back during your endstep, blow up a land and you have to pay Echo during your upkeep if you want to go on with them. This way you blow up a land each turn and also pay echo each turn and paint an even bigger target on your head because you destroy a land on each of your turns.
The best land destruction creature for the deck is probably Fulminator Mage, but it's expensive. Ravenous Baboons is budget, but not as powerful and then there is also Shivan Harvest, wich I haven't tested, but should do the job. But it will also get your opponent's attention. There are probably other options too that I may not remember right now.
Good call on that card. I always thought Glen Elendra Archmage was way too expensive, but the Siren is a good fit for an aggro deck.
Also Angrath's Marauders costs 7 mana, not 5...
And Eli Shiffrin, the rules manager, now errata'd Hostage Taker to exile another target creature or artifact. Here's the tweet about it.
Quick search showed me Torchling and Cinderhaze Wretch. Both good untappers with more abilities. Cinderhaze Wretch could replace Greel?
Don't know if it was in this thread or one of the others, but people talked about how Living Death is often a dead card because we are ahead on the board and/or other players graveyards are stocked much better than our own. Although in most situations where you want to play it Living Death is really awesome. I also don't play Entomb (don't own one) or other ways to fill my grave. I am not sure, maybe I should just switch some cards around and try them out, I can always switch back later.